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Washington Post FactChecker corrects Bill Clinton on Obama and Iraq

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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:06 PM
Original message
Washington Post FactChecker corrects Bill Clinton on Obama and Iraq
Edited on Tue Jan-08-08 01:27 PM by maximusveritas
This is nothing new. Clinton's attack has been debunked many times before this, but I guess he's desperate enough to keep using it. It's especially desperate considering the fact that Clinton was caught earlier this campaign falsely claiming to be against the war in Iraq from the start when he clearly was not.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/01/obama_and_iraq.html#more

Clinton then expressed surprise that Obama has been allowed to get away with a statement in 2004, "at the Democratic Convention," saying that there was "not much difference" between him and George W. Bush on Iraq. He also quoted Obama as saying that he "did not know" how he would have voted on the now-contentious 2002 Senate resolution authorizing military action in Iraq, had he been in the Senate at the time.

The way Clinton said all this, it sounded as if these statements were part of Obama's big speech to the convention, which marked his introduction to big-time politics. In fact, they are somewhat misleading snippets from newspaper interviews that Obama gave before the convention.

As the keynote speaker, Obama was trying to be loyal to the Democrataic nominees, John Kerry and John Edwards, both of whom had voted in favor of the war authorization resolution, along with Hillary Clinton. In a July 26 interview with the New York Times, a few days before the convention, he reiterated his opposition to the war but declined to criticize Kerry and Edwards, saying he was "not privy to Senate intelligence reports."

He then continued: "What would I have done? I don't know. What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made."

(The Clinton campaign left out that important last sentence when it e-mailed reporters with backup material for the inconsistency claim, which was also made by Hillary Clinton in the televised debate Saturday night.)

In an interview the following day with the Chicago Tribune (July 27,2004), Obama said that he would have voted "no" on the Senate resolution.


Let me explain it for those who are too slow to understand this:
Obama was being asked to criticize Kerry and Edwards for their votes.

He declined, noting that perhaps hypothetically if he had been in the Senate at the same time as them and seen these intelligence reports, he'd come to the same conclusion they did.

But from his vantage point outside the Senate, the case was not made and if he was given a chance to vote based on that, he'd vote "no" for sure.

So it's misleading to suggest that Obama didn't know how he'd vote. He did. He was just talking about a hypothetical situation in which he was in Kerry and Edwards' shoes.

I realize this involves a couple neurons and might be difficult for some people to understand, but I'm sure if you try hard enough, you'll get it.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Another negative attack turned against them
They really need to stop runing as if they cant be fact chercked in seconds on the internet. Maybe he thinks all just a bunch of tubes?
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. where is the Clinton lie or mis-statement? Obama said in 04 that he "did not know"-O's excuses are?
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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. It's not a lie, it's just misleading. Read the OP
He did lie about having opposed the war from the start though.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. BINGO
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HeraldSquare212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. Damn - Obama was trying to support the nominee, and now
Clinton uses it against him? Nice work, Bill - attacking someone for exhibiting party loyalty.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. Obama changed his story--first he said he did not know what he would have done, NOW he says he
was really agaist the war and would NOT have voted for it. Obama does slide on this one himself.



He then continued: "What would I have done? I don't know. What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made."
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. Now he says what he said on 7/27/04
In an interview the following day with the Chicago Tribune (July 27,2004), Obama said that he would have voted "no" on the Senate resolution.
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KennedyGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. wait...
Clinton said: He also quoted Obama as saying that he "did not know" how he would have voted on the now-contentious 2002 Senate resolution authorizing military action in Iraq, had he been in the Senate at the time.

Obama said: "What would I have done? I don't know. What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made."

I don't see the issue...
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. its only an issue for those who do not read well.
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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. I've updated it to add an explanation
If you're sincere about this and not just looking to attack Obama, this should clear it up for you.
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Deleting the last sentence removes necessary context. nt
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. OBAMA: He then continued: "What would I have done? I don't know.




........s the keynote speaker, Obama was trying to be loyal to the Democrataic nominees, John Kerry and John Edwards, both of whom had voted in favor of the war authorization resolution, along with Hillary Clinton. In a July 26 interview with the New York Times, a few days before the convention, he reiterated his opposition to the war but declined to criticize Kerry and Edwards, saying he was "not privy to Senate intelligence reports."

He then continued: "What would I have done? I don't know. What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made."
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. OBAMA: he said "there's not much of a difference between my position and George Bush's position at t


n an interview the following day with the Chicago Tribune (July 27,2004), Obama said that he would have voted "no" on the Senate resolution. But he said he was not in favor of "pulling out now." On the issue of whether to stay in Iraq , he said "there's not much of a difference between my position and George Bush's position at this stage." The context of his remarks makes clear that he was not referring to the original decision to go into Iraq, but the question of whether to remain.

His views on whether to stay in Iraq have changed, of course, as he now advocates a phased withdrawal.
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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
12. Take away the vote that Obama couldn't cast on Iraq (because
he wasn't even in the game when the war started) and what are their differences? Gene Lyons recently wrote that Obama's voting record is (my memory)"remarkably similar" to Hillary's so what outrages the Left so much about her?

And again, if Al Qaeda had killed 3,000 Chicagoans in the Sears Tower,Obama would've led the charge to "fight terror," whatever that means.If he didn't, he'd be the former senator from Illinois.

As far as I'm concerned OBAMA has been getting pretty much of a free pass. For example, if he has some dark areas in his past he better come clean NOW! There will be no forgiveness if he is hiding something the Repukes can latch onto and cost us another election.

What exactly is his "change" campaign all about anyway? It sounds more like "Can't we all just get along" all over again. I don't want to get along with those sonsabitches. No way, no how.His supporters are major posters on HuffPost AS WELL AS HERE ON THE DU and they use the most vile forms of Republican shit from the 90's against the Clintons. After 7 years of saying how great the Clinton years were, these dirtbags are throwing shit at them with both hands. Something you expect from the Right - but from Democrats?

Obama reminds me of Nader, he wants to go from zero to president. Since he's still wet behind his big ears, let him put in his time first.I'm reminded of the really old Popeye cartoon where somebody convinced Popeye he'd be better off without his spinach.Popeye threw the can away - it landed on the back of a truck and as the truck pulled away, the spinach can called out to Popeye, "You'll be sorry!" I want a knife fighter to go against the Republican Slime Machine, but it seems like the Democrats want a pony called "Change," instead.





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ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. What did Al Queda have to do with Iraq n/t
You've got it bad for Obama. This sounds like a personal issue.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
13. It's plain as day what Obama was saying..
but to a hillary twister it's food for the clinton propoganda machine.

"As the keynote speaker, Obama was trying to be loyal to the Democrataic nominees, John Kerry and John Edwards, both of whom had voted in favor of the war authorization resolution, along with Hillary Clinton. In a July 26 interview with the New York Times, a few days before the convention, he reiterated his opposition to the war but declined to criticize Kerry and Edwards, saying he was "not privy to Senate intelligence reports."

He then continued: "What would I have done? I don't know. What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made."


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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. That's alright.....
folks will be getting their "just" desserts very soon!

Obama against war when it was UNPOPULAR.

Obama against the war when it was UNPOPULAR but tampered down in his representation of Dem nominees who had voted for it.

Brain surgery, this ain't! :eyes:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Shows class to me. He wanted
our Dems to win!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
16. It was HILLARY"S tough to be President Iraq strategy
She was running around saying "stay the course" in Iraq. Bill was giving Bush the benefit of the doubt on the yellowcake. And then they hve the nerve to dump this on Obama???

That's what is revolting about this statement. One of the key reasons I do not like these people.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Their nerves are on edge and their
desperation is getting uglier by the second. I always thought hillary was callous and devoid of empathy because of the way she enabled bush and now the proof is pouring in. It's all about them in their small minds.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
19. Obama's words stand on their own. President Clinton is correct
Despite the spinning of Obama apologists.
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Wow!! After all the previous posts you still can't see it.
Un-fucking-believable.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Obama is a liar?
That is the argument that is being made to defend what he said years ago.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. He was covering for John Edwards, get it now? n/t
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Obama admitted to lying on behalf a VP candidate?
Or is this something concocted by Obama's spinmeisters?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. YOUR Candidate who co-sponsored the IWR n/t
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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. Read my explanation in the OP
He didn't lie.
He was talking about a hypothetical in which he was in the Senate and privy to intelligence. In that hypothetical, he wouldn't know how he'd vote obviously.

However, if given a chance to vote based on what he knew, he'd vote no.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. HELLLOOOOOOOOOO.
It's plain as day what Obama was saying..
but to a hillary twister it's food for the clinton propoganda machine.

"As the keynote speaker, Obama was trying to be loyal to the Democrataic nominees, John Kerry and John Edwards, both of whom had voted in favor of the war authorization resolution, along with Hillary Clinton. In a July 26 interview with the New York Times, a few days before the convention, he reiterated his opposition to the war but declined to criticize Kerry and Edwards, saying he was "not privy to Senate intelligence reports."

He then continued: "What would I have done? I don't know. What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made."


"None are so blind as those who will not see."

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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Obama was protecting Bush too?

"It is wrong that Senator Obama got to go through 15 debates trumpeting his superior judgment and how he had been against the war in every year, enumerating the years, and never got asked one time--not once, 'Well, how could you say that when you said in 2004 you didn't know how you would have voted on the resolution? You said in 2004 there was no difference between you and George Bush on the war. And you took that speech you're now running on off your Web site in 2004. And there's no difference in your voting record and Hillary's ever since.'" Mr. Clinton said at a town-hall style meeting Monday afternoon at Dartmouth College. "Give me a break. This whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen."
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Like I
said..and bill clinton is a liar.. intelligent people do not believe his whiny ass.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
24. Unlike Obama, Hillary never passed an opportunity to slime Kerry
Remember when Hillary joined the GOP chorus in attacking Kerry for smearing US troops after that failed joke of his?

The Clintons are shameless!
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. Yes, I do remember!~ It's
one of the main reasons I don't want her anywhere near our whitehouse again. I was thinking Kerry would run again and she helped put the kibosh on that.

But, now she Obama to snipe against..and it's not going as well.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
32. K&R
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
33. The Washington Post has a fact checker??????????????
:wow:
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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
35. Found a video of Obama's response
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
36. The Status Quo will attack Happy Warriors for Change
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