The MSM has made it sooooo much easier to bash a woman

[lazer47]

instead of bashing an African/American,, why is that so hard for some to realize???,,

[Cameron27]

1. Because sexism isn't recognized.

[MaineDem]

2. Is "bash" the best word you could have used?

The line just makes me cringe. I understand totally what you mean, though.

[KennedyGuy]

3. I agree 100%

[goldcanyonaz]

4. Racists are a dying breed, but sexists are fired up and ready to go!

They're ridin the wave!

[lazer47]

5. And you can find a lot of them on DU,,supposedly their liberal,,,,BULL SHIT

[progressivebydesign]

10. Because the youth vote has no clue what equality for women is all about..

they missed that era when we fought our asses off to be treated like everyone else. They've only been around to see women treated as sex objects and only respected if you weigh 90 lbs and look like you're ready for sex. There is a huge wave of sexism that exists in the youth culture now. They don't see it because they were not educated nor witnessed the struggles of the 70s to gain equality. The feminist movement has been villified and buried, and we've been allowed to work in better jobs, run for office, etc., but STILL are treated like arm candy. Only useful to young men and the media if we are "hot". There is a big culture of sexism in that youth vote.. count on it.

[Anouka]

18. Or maybe Hillary is not the genuine article.

And the other candidates -- Obama especially but also Edwards -- touch them in ways she can not.

I don't see a anti-feminist plot in not choosing Hillary.

Hillary needs to chill on the anti-feminist plots, and on dismissing the intellect of people who don't agree with her, as she did with Iowa and is about to do to New Hampshire if Obama really does carry the state.

Her supporters need to do the same.


I am so, SO glad Obama is not running on race, and does not mention it. The perils are the ones with which Hillary is cozying up to when she plays the 'I'm just a girl' card, but with which Hillary will NEVER pay in the same way Obama would pay if he ran on his race, if he made his race the all-consuming reason why people should elect him in the same way Hillary has been hinting all along that 'history' and her gender are all-consuming reasons why people should elect her.

Obama has made it about the voters, and what the voters can do, what voters can accomplish.

Hillary makes it about herself. I guess she got that from Bill.

Edwards ... so far, he's chilling with Obama. Which doesn't mean anything.

Why wouldn't/isn't Hillary being called out more often for what she's doing?

[progressivebydesign]

25. Edwards "chilling" with Obama. What does that mean anyway??

Are they locked in a freezer together? Would you like to have an intelligent conversation or you just here to tell us how inferior Hillary is?

[LostinVA]

27. Look down thread -- the poster thinks we're all racists if we despise the sexism

[Anouka]

51. Obama also uses the word 'chill'. Is he unintelligent, now?

I use slang. It's how I speak in informal situations. That doesn't make me unintelligent... just as the absence of slang doesn't mean someone is a genius.

DU -- as are most message boards -- is an informal situation.

But do you really think that slang is evidence of lack of intellect? If I dropped into ebonics (which I do often), would you dismiss what I have to say because of its color, or its content?

Now I'm reminiscing over certain posters who felt taken aback by Obama 'speechifying' and Oprah dropping into southern/black. I've known of some whites who felt 'black' speech was the mark of an inferior mind, and preferred I not use it in their presence. It really freaked them out, it was a negative.

I've always felt bad about that, and did not like what that had to say about people I respected otherwise; because it said they did not respect me, and they did not respect people who looked like me... even if I was an 'exception'. Especially if I was an 'exception' up until dropping informal black slang into a conversation.

Perhaps I am wrong. Do you, in writing what you wrote above, really feel that 'black' speech, or slang, is the mark of an inferior mind?

[Dhalgren]

6. Just look at the grief Biden got when he referred to Obama as

"clean" and "articulate", but EVERYBODY has been using pejorative code-words about Clinton's femininity without a comment. I am liking Obama less and less as time goes by - and it isn't really Obama that I dislike (I do dislike his 'message'), it is the way his campaign is unfolding and the way his supporters behave...

[progressivebydesign]

8. You nailed it. Obama's supporters have turned me against him.

I used to be open to him, now I despise him and would consider a third party vote or no vote. Their relentless attacks on the other candidates, mostly Hillary (which is so odd for her to be singled out), have soured me toward anything positive he has to offer.

[lazer47]

12. Remember Imus, they didn't fire him

because of a sexist comment,, it was over a racist comment,,,which the sexist comment was a lot worse

[progressivebydesign]

7. Because Obama is a "rock star" apparently.

I just never tire of that insanely stupid term in relation to anything from a candidate to a computer programmer to a skateboarder.

The media has decided that Huckabee and Obama were the best stories.. and unforutnately, most obama supporters here aren't old enough to remember the first Bush campaign against Gore. Wherein the pool of reporters assigned to the candidates thought Bush was so WONDERFUL and SO MUCH FUN and drew SUCH BIG CROWDS (like a rock star but with a country twang), that they used every way possible to frame every story to make Gore look like a dull jerk ,and Bush look like a rock star. WE're at the mercy of the moronic journalists that act like giggling high school girls at the popular lunch table. We're expected to fall in line behind a candidate because he draws BIG CROWDS, and nothing more. And we're supposed to judge Hillary Clinton by a much harsher standard because she has the audacity to run, being a woman and all. The catty and snarky journalists just don't really like women. It's AMerica's ugly secret. Women are portrayed as either sex objects (worse now than the 70s or 80s) and crime victims. Madison Avenue has marginalized women to the point that all we're good for is sex, and if you're past the point of being good for sex, you're invisible. If Hillary was.. say.. a 29 year old hot actress who was non-threatening intellectually, she'd have that "rock star" following.

We are now witnessing the ugly truth about the country in the age of celebrity. How many of the people who are voting in the primaries have read a newspaper or a magazine (people mag doesn't count)? America is a celebrity and image obsessed lunchroom full of people afraid to choose anything but the one that makes them seem hip. It's not about who will lead the country the best, it's about what seems the coolest. And women are not cool, unless they're giving birth and regaining a size 4 body in a matter of weeks, or dating a celebrity.

[lazer47]

9. My God,,, now that, is what I call being able to write and an Intelligent

response,,

[progressivebydesign]

11. thanks!! Sometimes I nail it! :) n/t

[rodeodance]

17. yes, it was very good

[Cameron27]

13. Exactly!

:thumbsup:

[Dhalgren]

15. Good post!

I do not support Clinton on purely policy and issues. That being said, at least she HAS policies and issues! This subterranean, anti-woman crap is so disheartening. Why not oppose Clinton on policy and issues? Why not just stop at she is "old school" and we want "new" even if it is untried? Why does it have to devolve into a "cackle" or "she cried" or "she lost it" bullshit memes? When Joe Biden made his ill-informed remarks about Obama, everyone was right to take him to task, I just wish everyone was as "sensitive" to sexism...

[Anouka]

14. OMG, this treading into 'why can't we say n*gg*r' territory.

I'm that floored. This is how it's starting to appear to me. Who in anyone's right mind would lament that it's harder to bash blacks than it is to bash (white) women -- except closet racists?

How about demanding that no one is bashed, regardless of race or gender?

Or better yet, how about demanding that a person NOT use tricks, plants and distractions relating to their perceived underclass status, in order to be treated more favorably?

Hillary Clinton wants to be treated more favorably because she's a woman, and is schizophrenic about tough as a man versus fragile as a woman. She needs to chill.

[Cameron27]

16. You're reprehensible for

insinuating that anyone here is a closet racist because they're making comparisons between two forms of injustice taking place in our society. Racism is the most recognized and hated, while sexism is allowed to flourish. Hillary Clinton wants a level playing field, not favoritism.

[Anouka]

29. I'm fed up. And don't fool yourself about what Hillary wants.

I was fed up with 'why can't we say n*gg*r'

and

I'm fed up with 'why aren't people bashing the black man'

I'm fed up with the intolerance and subtle racism and outfront man-hating of her supporters.

Being a woman does not mean hating men. It does not mean depending on men to make a name for one's self, either.

Obama isn't running as a black man. He's running as a man who happens to be black. He's consistent, even when people don't know what he's about. Obama comes across as sincere. Obama comes across as interested in YOU, as a person.

Hillary is running all over the place, she's not consistent. She wants people to believe she's Superwoman one day, Penelope Pureheart the next, Pauline in Peril the next day after that.......... it's a scam. It's not real. It's no more real than her paid crowds pulled from out of state. It's no more real than her publicity stunts to put the attention on herself. It's no more real than her kind words -- until your cross her (New Hampshire, look out, she will do you like Iowa).

Hillary comes across as insincere, once details are known. Hillary comes across as interested only in herself. I remember a story someone told about her giving an address at a college, and her completely underwhelming the student body because of how tightly she kept to her speech in front of her. She did not have the gift of making the planned seemed spontaneous and personable. She came across as robotic and incapable of change, immovable.

Hillary needs to stop trying to be who other people think she should be -- or rather, what she believes other people want her to be. But I guess she's been this way her entire life, even in youth.

She really does come off as insincere and calculating, after further information is known. That's not anti-feminist to say. It's just an opinion, and for me it's a true opinion.

[Cameron27]

34. You're fed up,

that's clear. You don't know the meaning of the word "sexism" and that's clear too. Goodbye.

[LostinVA]

37. They also called ME a troll -- gigglegigglegiggle

It's Backwards Day.

[Anouka]

41. I don't know the meaning of sexism because I don't buy what Hillary's selling?

Whatever.


You had already kissed me goodbye before you knew I existed.

[LostinVA]

44. Anouka, projection is such a wonderful thing

:kiss:

[progressivebydesign]

20. That's idiotic. You need to "chill", in your own words.

I knew that someone would come along and trash a thoughtful and intelligent thread. Though I guess I have to spell it out for you, we're not saying that it should be OKAY to trash someone because they're not caucasian, we're saying that it's WRONG to trash someone because of their sex. BIG DIFFERENCE. But I guess if you're spoiling for a fight, or trying to make some obtuse point about racism, then have at it. The posters here were just having a nice conversation about SEXISM.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. Aren't African American Women Women Too?

So, they are victims or racism (and) sexism...

Nobody's dieing to say the n-word but one has to be willfully ignorant to deny that sexism is more accepted than racism in polite company...Sexism is so ingrained, so subterranean, so much a part of our culture thar its practitioners don't even realize it...

[Anouka]

40. Apparently not.

And I am an African-American woman. But I recognize the code for 'woman' for what it is, and what it unfortunately has been for too long.


As for "Nobody's dieing to say the n-word" -- could have fooled the black community. Those who pull that argument ('why can't we say n*gg*r') may not consciously intend what many of us in the black community hear, but it's still there. But then, I don't think it's a matter of Freud; I think it's a matter of saying exactly what you mean, but not being able to deal with what you mean when called on it. That's just me, though.

Perhaps some things other than sexism are 'ingrained' to the point of 'subterranean'. Things like the benefits of skin privilege and knowing one is absence of the full benefits of said privilege in spite of owning it. Or wanting to own it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. Let Me Give You An Example Of How Subterranean And Pernicious Sexism Is

My friend and former business partner who fancies himself a progressive refers to some of our female vendors as girls as in "when will those girls" have it done... He thinks it cute or funny when I call him on it yet he wouldn't for a minute think of objectifying somebody because of their race...

Listen to Rush...So much of his criticism of Hillary is laden with sexism and he preaches to jam packed stadiums...Listen to Chris Matthews...Look at the photos Drudge uses of her, the worst she can find...

Racism, sexism, anti-semitism, and homophobia are as American as apple pie except some bigotries are more careful about raising their ugly face...

[Anouka]

50. Speaking of Rush Limbaugh, here's something on Obama vs. Clintons

I found this at FR:

VIDEO Bill Clinton on Obama "Biggest fairy tale he's ever seen" (Its all about me barf alert)

RUSH: … But nevertheless, this program and I remain front and center in the brains and the minds of all these Democrats. When they find themselves in trouble and can't explain it, they have to lash out. There's one exception to this on the national scene that I can point to, and that is Obama. We've had our parody fun with Obama, and we've been critical of Obama on issues, and his staff's not out there whining and moaning and blaming and so forth. They're out there laughing at it or ignoring it. They're acting like adults. The Clintons are out there acting like, "How dare you attack me. Don't you know who I am? Don't you know who we are? How dare you criticize me? How dare you poison the American people against me and my wife." The utter arrogance of that is breathtaking. But, it is what it is, and it's something that we've come to expect and long ago recognize.

I know how I feel reading this, and I feel cautious. Very very cautious. It makes me think, that Rush would say this. It makes me think about the kind of campaign Obama is running, and the impression that campaign is making..... versus the Clintons. And I feel cautious, very very cautious, and hopeful.

As for your friend and former business partner, what characteristics marks the women he calls 'girls' versus the women he calls 'women'? Why was he your friend in spite of that (his good qualities which superceded his bad)? Was it race or age or 'attractiveness' that determined who were women and who were girls?

That's always fascinated me.

And, thank you for pointing out he was a progressive, since there seems to be a group here in the blogosphere who insists that only conservatives/right-wingers are bigots and no liberal, let alone no progressive, has ever had a bigotted though.

Was his progressiveness of a universal sort, or a 'head patting' sort?
if I may ask. Anyway, thank you for your response above.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

47. Basic building block of the patriarchy. nt

[Anouka]

32. You find the OP's message 'thoughtful and intelligent'?

Are you for real?

The OP is not saying anything of the sort that you're saying. The OP is bitching that the black man is not being bashed because of his race.....completely ignoring when that black man, who refuses to run on race, has been bashed by hard racism and soft racism. But I forgive the OP a little of that because perhaps they're just not aware, their own eyes are attuned to different things. And that's fine.

Making a thread whose only message -- whose only content -- is this

"The MSM has made it sooooo much easier to bash a woman instead of bashing an African/American,, why is that so hard for some to realize???,,"

is not being thoughtful, it's not being intellectual: it's being petty.
There's no context. There's no example. There's no analysis. There's only the statement, presented like yet another 'How dare!' in code.

It's being petty in a nasty way, a lot nastier than my saying that this argument treads into 'why can't we say n*gg*r' territory.

[LostinVA]

24. For shame

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. She Has 30,264 Posts...She's Must Be The Michael Jordan Of Trolls

Oh, and calling somebody a troll is a violation of DU rules, ergo:


Do not publicly accuse another member of this message board of being a disruptor, conservative, Republican, FReeper, or troll, or do not otherwise imply they are not welcome on Democratic Underground. If you think someone is a disruptor, click the "Alert" link below their post to let the moderators know.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

[Anouka]

43. 30,264 is quantity, not quality.

But I do thank you for the link to the rules of engagement here at DU.

[LostinVA]

45. Read all 30,264 then get back to me

Lots of posts about Democracy.

I've totally earned MY liberal cred with DUers... even those who don't like me.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. I Just Noticed Your Sig Line...It's Quite Stimulating

~

[Cameron27]

36. You're an idiot

who's had his post alerted.

/My mistake, apparently the idiot's a her.

[LostinVA]

39. I think I WILL become a troll -- it might be fun

:eyes:

[Cameron27]

48. Well dammit,

Anouka said so, who can doubt her word?

[youthere]

19. you know why I believe that's so?

because I don't believe there's a person of color in this nation that buys into the "inferior race" argument that racists try to spew ( either directly or indirectly). Unfortunately there are plenty of women that will swallow the "weaker sex" argument hook line and sinker.

[progressivebydesign]

21. Perfectly put!! n/t

[loveangelc]

22. *yawn*

[progressivebydesign]

26. Try some caffiene, it might help you stay awake. n/t

[redqueen]

23. Was it ever difficult?

[Skidmore]

28. Not true. They've been doing it all along? What do you call

Bimbo news and Bimbo entertainment? It's called "sexy" and packaged to be glitz and glamour, but it is demeaning and sexist? Does that disturb you as much as political discourse about a woman candidate? "Want to be a Supermodel" or Britney/Linsey/Paris news or other such program choices are indeed elevating fare.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

42. The MSM? Gee, I thought it was the patriarchy.

Glad to see that so many DUers are finally starting to realize that we live in one.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

46. Wait a sec....Are you COMPLAINING that you can't bash an African-American?

[youthere]

52. Yeah...that's EXACTLY what he was doing.

:eyes:
We're all outraged we can't bash African-Americans. That was PRECISELY the point.:sarcasm: