I am an American before I am a Democrat.

[DjTj]

A lot of people on this board yell and scream about how we have to reform the Democratic Party, how the Democratic Party doesn't represent their views, how they have to vote third party to make sure the Democratic Party doesn't forget about them...

Well, I am an American before I am a Democrat.

I am interested in reforming America. The government in power does not represent my views, and I want to do everything I can to change it. I will vote for the Democratic nominee so that the U.S. government doesn't forget about my views.

Why are we obsessed with reforming a political party? The party itself can't change anything. We need to reform this country. We need to get people in office that are closer to our views. Who cares who the party leadership is? I'm worried about the American leadership.

This November, I won't waste my vote trying to change a policital party. I'm going to vote to change America.

post #995 ... 5 more to 1000 ...

[wyldwolf]

1. amen!

[anti-NAFTA]

2. It's called sending a message

that you won;t support a party that has such and such message and that that msesage should change. It's caled democratic republicanism. Nothing wrong with it,

edit: I'm expressing understanding for third party voters, not condonement. Bush must be defeated, but our party also needs to change.

[diamondsoul]

3. Your final statement is absolutely

right. We're not there yet. So you give up on reform before the nominee is chosen or is Senator Edwards your first choice? If he's jnot, you've sold out already and november shoulbe a snap.


Sorry, not a personal attack so much as a plea to seriously consider your choices now. Peace to you and yours and whatever you do, be true to yourself.

[DjTj]

9. Vote for whomever you want in the primaries!

My preference is Edwards, and I don't think I've sold out. In any case, I have no problem with people supporting any other candidate in the primaries for any reason.

However, people HAVE to vote for the Democratic nominee in November. We're not there yet, but the people on this board threatening to go third party really get to me sometimes...

4 more posts to 1000...

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. Posting on this board lately makes me wonder...if I were African American

would I post and participate on a site where more and more posts were calling for my demise.
For all the handwringing, the very people that people claim to be advocating for have been harmed more by the last few years of Bush than they were by the 12 years prior...whether they are the poor in this country or the poor elsewhere..whether it is the environment in this country or the environment elsewhere...whether they are a woman in this country or a woman elsewhere...

[turnhardleft]

5. Please provide a link where someone calls for the AA demise

More posts than what?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

7. please reread my post

[turnhardleft]

17. Let me spell it out

"Posting on this board lately makes me wonder...if I were African American would I post and participate on a site where more and more posts were calling for my demise."

Provide a link to the site "where more and more posts were calling for the demise of African Americans" than not.

It that more clear?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. For the context impaired..more and more posts are calling for the demise

of the Democatic party as though THAT will help things...
Again REREAD MY POST!


And frankly YES..anything that helps Bush only makes it WORSE NOT BETTER FOR ANY GROUP of people traditionally locked out of equal opportunities so if the fucking shoe fits...wear it.

[turnhardleft]

24. I'm looking for your link to the call for the demise of African Americans

That's what your original post stated. You mentioned posts calling for the demise of African Americans. I'm simply looking for the link to the source of your charge.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

26. Get a grip..I already explained myself

[turnhardleft]

30. Still looking for the link

Is there one or not?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

32. Sorry game over...you'll have to go latch on to someone else now

Have fun

[turnhardleft]

35. All you had to say was you don't have a link to back up your assertion

No big deal. Consider your unproven claim ignored.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

36. LOL! I never MADE A FUCKING ASSERTION ABOUT AFRICAN AMERICANS

it was a CORROLLARY...if you are so poor at reading that you could not fucking get that after I EXPLAINED IT..perhaps TV might be more beneficial than posting on a site where reading skills are required.

Have a "whatever" day.

[turnhardleft]

37. These are YOUR words...

"Posting on this board lately makes me wonder...if I were African American would I post and participate on a site where more and more posts were calling for my demise."

It's pretty clear to me and most other readers that can parse the English language. Got a link to back it up?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

38. IF I WERE....what about that is uninterpretable?

I got a link right here for you

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame11.html

[turnhardleft]

39. I thought you were talking about links on DU

Not some average flame site.

You did say "here" which I assumed to mean DU.

[Maddy McCall]

22. Goddam the fine art of allegory and metaphor is lost on some people

:eyes:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

25. Oh hey and I thought yesterday's handle was more creative

Perhaps you'd like to explain yourself here:

turnhardleft (15 posts) Wed Feb-25-04 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #26

29. Hey Doc, I have no problem with punkers


I'm wondering what middle America, you know...the swing voters that watch TV and see punks with holes in every dangling body part promoting Dems will think. Ya know what I mean?

SigNot


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=383602#385029

[turnhardleft]

28. Sure but it's pretty obvious

Middle America and punkers with holes in many body parts endorsing Dems.

How will middle America take this endorsement?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

31. Sounds like something "turnhardleft" would be really concerned about

indeed

[turnhardleft]

34. We won't get a left turn if you keep electing bush

Middle America has a concerns about heavily pierced punks promoting Dems. If you don't understand that then I pity you. This election is too close to lose it to ignorance.

[lovedems]

6. I am with YOU!

I have 4 kids and my vote is about THEIR future, not my ideals. My outrage is with the bush administration first and they are the ones I intend to hold responsible.

[AntiCoup2K4]

8. The party must be reformed because it's no different than the opposition.

How in fucking Hell do you change America by electing someone who voted for all the wrong things the other party did for the last three years?

A razor thin majority, based on an election that was never even finished, and the so called "leadership" in Congress acts as though the 'Pukes had an 80% majority and votes along with all of their shit.

Do you realize how much of Bush's bullshit could have been stopped if every Democrat had done their fucking job opposing that unelected bastard, and pulled in a few sane Republicans to vote with them. Kerry's the poster boy for this sickening lack of balls, but Edwards votes were just as bad. Why the Hell should either of them be rewarded for not doing their jobs. Why would you accept these failures as the "best candidates" and how the Hell can you possibly think they will do their job, even if elected, when they refused to do so when their party and their country needed them the most??

Reward for failure? Fuck that. The Bush Fraudministration plays that game. I don't.

[OneBlueSky]

11. hope you'll enjoy 40 years of Chief Justice Scalia . . .

and Associate Justice Ashcroft . . .

[sandnsea]

13. Reform

How do you reform a country with somebody who throws a temper tantrum about a vote, but isn't going to do anything to change what the vote was about?

That was the Howard Dean platform. Throw a fit about the Patriot Act, but do no more to change it than any other candidate. Throw a fit about NCLB, and do no more to change it than any other candidate. Same with Iraq. Same with trade. Same with every other issue.

I want a candidate who tells me the truth. Exactly why he voted the way he voted, what went wrong, and what we're going to do now. That's why I've always been for Kerry. You only get change with the truth.

[ludwigb]

29. This isn't about Dean.

Please stop bashing Dean. Anyone who claims to have been with Dean on matters of substance is almost intellectually obligated to be ABB--that is the argument that needs to be made. That when you look at Dean's actual ideas, he's isn't much different than Kerry (regardless whether Kerry is acutally more or less progressive)

Stop tearing down Dean when he is more ABB than anyone out there.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

14. May as well change you handle to ProCoup

If your argument is that their lack of balls caused the war, then the counterargument that Nader votes lost us the election is just as valid...if only a few of those Greens bucked it up and voted with us when their country needed them most none of this would have happened...see how that works?

[littlejoe]

18. How old are you?

[lovedems]

20. What you call failure

I call being up against a corrupt, closed door, lying administration that has the congress of their choice in control. This administration has also had the assistance of media that either was friendly to their policies or refused to actually engage in investigative journalism and get the REAL truth out there. The reality of the situation for the dems the last 3 years is not as simple as you paint it.

[NashVegas]

10. The Difference Between the Parties as of Now

In a nutshell -

Republicans: a corporate state without abortion rights.
Democrats: a corporate state with abortion rights.

[Protagoras]

16. So do you see no difference

on Education, Healthcare, Privacy rights, Social Security, international relations...or the myriad of other differences that will be effected by coming appointments to the supreme court?

[Piperay]

19. You honestly don't see any

difference in the parties regarding the environment and global warming???

[NashVegas]

27. One Difference

The Dems give better lip service.

That's pretty much it.

Speaking of climate, etc., today I interviewed the author of a book about the coming oil crisis, a bonafide Wall Street guru who's genuinely concerned about the subject and the fact that it's not a national topic of discussion. If the Dems are so much more concerned than the Repukes, why are they (even Dean, who was my candidate) suggesting we wait another 6-10 years to get 35 mgp required? Why are they talking about the need to be on 20% renewable energy by 2020 and not by 2010?

My feeling is that the Democratic establishment has the philosophy pointed to in my sig just as much - possibly if not more than - the Repukes.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

33. What doesn't make sense about that is this:

There's only about 300 million people in the US..if they really aren't aiming for a replacement fuel which PUSHING the mileage thing DOES lean toward...then how will they humor their coporate masters who depend on oil for their oil driven economy when the oil runs out?

It isn't as though Dr.Deffeyes hasn't authored several articles for The American Prospect. It isn't as though they can't read too.

[Hav]

12. For some it is...

Democrat first, screwed American second.

[littlejoe]

15. As an American, all the more reason to be ABB. n/t

[spooky3]

23. good post!

[SangamonTaylor]

40. well stated DjTj