Urgent: It's not too late!!

[G_j]

FORGET NADER, HUG KUCINICH
Adam Werbach, AlterNet

This election cycle the Democratic Party must give former Nader voters a place at the table to keep them from staying home or casting a protest vote.

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=17924
--------------------------
and From the Kucinich site:

HOW TO VOTE STRATEGICALLY

......and still respect yourself in the morning.

THINK YOUR VOTE FOR DENNIS KUCINICH WON'T COUNT? THINK AGAIN. HERE'S WHY:

#1 CANDIDATES WHO TURN OUT 15% OF THE VOTES IN A GIVEN CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT GET DELEGATES

#2 DELEGATES COMMITTED TO A GIVEN CANDIDATE GO TO THE NATIONAL CONVENTION IN BOSTON (JULY)

#3 DELEGATES DETERMINE TH EPLATFORM, AND SELECT THE DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE

#4 WITH SO MANY CANDIDATES SPLITTING THE VOTE, IT IS HIGHLY LIKELY THAT THERE WILL BE A BROKERED CONVENTION (WE HAVEN'T HAD ONE SINCE JFK)

#5 IN A BROKERED CONVENTION ANY CANDIDATE WITH DELEGATES CAN WIN TH ENOMINATION
ARE YOUR HOPES AND DREAMS ELECTABLE?...YOU BET! BUT ONLY IF YOU VOTE FOR THEM. CONSIDER HOW MUCH MAY CHANGE BETWEEN NOW AND THE CONVENTION THIS SUMMER.
 
       * HOW MANY MORE AMERICANS WILL BE UNEMPLOYED?     *HOW MANY MORE SOLDIERS WILL DIE IN IRAQ?     *HOW MUCH DIRT WILL KARL ROVE AND THE GOP UNCOVER     OR SPILL ON THE FRONT RUNNERS?

          *HOW MANY DELEGATES WILL FIND THE COURAGE TO VOTE       FOR THE CHANGE

THEY WANT IN AMERICA?
YOUR VOTE! YOUR VOICE! YOUR COUNTRY!
DON'T BE SILENCED!

DO YOU HAVE THE COURAGE OF YOUR CONVICTIONS? DENNIS DOES
KUCINICH 2004

The Strategic Choice

1. why are so many people afraid of a brokered convention?

"WITH SO MANY CANDIDATES SPLITTING THE VOTE, IT IS HIGHLY LIKELY THAT THERE WILL BE A BROKERED CONVENTION (WE HAVEN'T HAD ONE SINCE JFK)"


and he wasn't that bad a selection.


SPLIT THE VOTE!!!!
have a real convention, instead of a rubber stamp

[SheilaT]

3. The 1960 convention was NOT a brokered convention.

But 1952 was.

I do agree that we need to have a few more voices in Boston other than the Kerry people. As a Dean supporter, I'm saddened that he's being swept under the table, that people in the party are forgetting that he more than any other candidate this year brought new people into active participation in the Democratic party.

I just don't see Kerry as bringing forth truly new ideas, of properly repudiating everything Bush stands for and has brought about in the past three years.

7. I'm saddened too

I was just quoting from the Kucinich post regarding brokered convention. Thanks for correcting me though.

I'm a Dean supporter too
(I've got the Crazy Horse avatar up today because I was posting some stuff on other threads where I noticed the Dean avatar was engendering response to Dean not to the point I was making)

[G_j]

11. I'd love to learn more about that

if you have a link. :-)

Also, I'd say Dean folks should vote for Dean.
IMO, Kerry's got plenty of delegates already. I'm not supportive of any conception of a "mandate"

[diamondsoul]

30. Sheila, I agree.

I would submit that the way to make Dean heard now is to support a candidate who will put forth his positions or a variant of them. That's all, no advocacy for anyone, just consider what will make his voice stronger in the end.

[SheilaT]

41. I'm in Kansas, and our caucuses

will be on March 13. I'll go in the hopes of being selected as a delegate to the next level, and I'm going to try to get to be a delegate to the national convention. But I don't think I can be a Kerry delegate, and if the mad stampede to him continues, there may be no hope for me as a Dean or as an uncommitted delegate. I can only hope that a lot of Kerry supporters will actually stay home, and if I can get a group of Dean people to come to my caucus and support me, there's a chance.

Wish me luck.

[G_j]

5. and many said JFK was "unelectable" because

a Catholic had never been president.

same 'ole BS
How easy it is to forget


a brokered convention is the best thing that could happen

excellent opportunity to join the phone campaign at:
www.kucinich.com

[Mick Knox]

2. Dennis getting it would be equivlent to stealing an election....

Assuming Kerry keeps going.. reaching way down to the bottom of the pile and selecting kucinich when the people have spoken would be a travesty...

Also, there is nothing indicating anything but Kerry will crush Mar 2 & 9... and thats it.. game over. Kerry is the candidate selected by vote.. and he'll ride the momentum he already has right to the nomination.

Democracy is neato that way.

4. kerry has been getting mainly pluralities, not majorities

more people have still been voting for someone other than Kerry.

Stealing an election is sort of overstated, I think given this.

[Mick Knox]

6. Kerry Today: 662 Dennis: 8

Dennis is done.

[juajen]

10. Funny, I did not hear a fat lady sing!

N/T

[scarletwoman]

8. "...way to the bottom of the pile" -- How nice...

It appears that you have absolutely no grasp of how the delegate system works. DK cannot "steal" the election -- what an idiotic statement!

What Kucinich supporters CAN do is make up a delegate block at the national convention and work to see that at least *some* progressive ideas are brought into the party platform.

THAT'S democracy!

sw

[G_j]

9. kucinich delegates can mean a more progressive platform

even if he is not the nominee.

keep the progressive voice at the table!

[scarletwoman]

12. Funny thing I've learned about DU,

there seem to be very few actual dedicated progressives here. It's quite sad, imho...

sw

[Cuban_Liberal]

13. I see lots of dedicated progressives here.

I don't see many rabidly left-wing fringers, though...

[G_j]

15. I have no idea

what you mean by "radical left wing fringers"


But I'll tell you one thing, there are very few dedicated activists here.
Great writers, great researchers, lot's of wheel spinning, very little on the ground activism.

[revcarol]

18. Grrrrr. from one who went to over 300 homes in snow and freezing cold

and registered over 1000 voters, over 100 former Greens...

Well, so you've already made up your mind we're do nothings...Where's that bridge?

:toast: Here's to us ground pounders!!

[G_j]

20. I said very few

my apologies to you and others who have been pounding the ground.

I still hold it's a minority.
perhaps I opened a can of worms, I'm not trying to dis anyone.

sorry, thanks for all you've been doing
:toast:

[revcarol]

22. The fact IS that we HAVE to be ground pounders.

The media is doing more than ignore Kucinich.

They are ACTIVELY suppressing any positive news about him at all.(to wit: third place in Washington and Maine, 2300 people at his speech in MN when Edwards only got 2000, second place in Hawai'i...ad infinitum.)

We HAVE to work on the ground with REAL PEOPLE. No zillion $$ media campaigns.So we will do what is necessary, go door-to-door, person-to-person. And that's it.

Sorry if I came on strong.

[G_j]

23. I understand

it sucks enough to be consistently ignored
by the media, then to have a fellow progressive not acknowledge your hard work, well... sucks :-(

I wish hadn't brought that axe here to grind.

anyway YES we must! and time is short, we have a limited window of opportunity.
BTW, single women are supposedly THE swing group to get to the polls.
I have a good article about that somewhere.

[diamondsoul]

31. Psst, Rev??

I think this poster meant aside from Kucinich crew!*grin* Anyone with sense knows we're the answer and we never quit. Huh, who does that sound like?:toast:

[MaggieSwanson]

42. Here's to YOU, revcarol!

I did a bit of pounding myself, maybe 100 or so, but WOW! 300?
:yourock:

14. just noticed your sig line

from Wilhelm/Baynes.Book of Changes
nice.

[scarletwoman]

28. Thanks!

You're the first to comment on it. :D

I don't just have it as a sig line, I think hard about what it means and how to apply it...

sw

29. the line I think about a lot from the I Ching

which I probably won't be able to quote exactly is the one in Revolution where it says Revolutions should only be undertaken under the direst necessity when there is no other way out.

This has seemed particularly relevant recently.

I also like the I Ching's conception of revolution being a snake shedding its skin and the revolution of the seasons.

The making energetic progress in the good makes me think of the thing from the new testament (actually this might even be in the footnote on that page) regarding resist not evil, in the sense that you give it energy by resisting it. I see that happen all the time both in discussion and internally.
It also makes me think of the koan regarding turning a light on in a room instantaneously lights the room even if the room has been dark for years, that it doesn't take the same amount of time for light to come into a room as the room was dark, but that it happens immediately & that therefore light is a different kind of element than dark.



:)

[diamondsoul]

33. HOOOAH!

YES, another Eastern philosophy student! Agreed and I plan to gift Dennis with a copy of my favorite interpretation of the Tao/Hua Hu Ching, with passages marked to apply to him or any national leader.

It's all too pathetic this game we play with each others' lives. I'm tired of it.

[scarletwoman]

34. "Resist not evil"....

It's kind of a martial arts principle, too.

Love that koan reference, thanks!

Now, if more people would tune in...

sw

[Mick Knox]

16. Does being a dedicated progressive...

mean you have stick your head in the sand and pretend that Kerry isnt absolutely crushing Dennis?... everywhere but the all important battle ground of Hawaii... where kerry still beat him... despite the fact Dennis was the only guy to campaign there?

[G_j]

17. you still didn't address

the concept of getting some of DK's ideas into the platform.

Don't tell me Kerry has some sort of mandate on the platform.

[Mick Knox]

19. I agree with that...

Let dennis talk... thats it though. IMO... he's more than earned that... He's worked his ass off - but he has lost .. so thats that. I got no prob with him speaking.. Like whatever he says will affect kerry.. but let him talk.. I always enjoy it.

[G_j]

21. this is an effort to get more DK deligates to the convention

super tuesday has not happened and it's not merely a matter of Kerry chosing to "listen" if there are DK or Dean delegates in the process of forming the platform.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. Despite your Jefferson qoute, you seem to have

succumbed to the tyranny of the bandwagon.

A month ago, everyone was taunting us about Dennis getting just 1-3% everywhere. Now he's gotten double digits three times, with even more favorable states to come.

Sure, Kerry has a lot more delegates, but at this point, I'm not just going to pack my bags and say, "It's all yours, Senator."

If you think that America under Clinton was our greatest moment and the absolute best we can ever hope for, then go ahead and vote for Kerry.

I think America can be even better than that, but it won't happen until people are wliling to stick their necks out and risk failure and keep on keeping on.

Just think what would have happened if the women's suffrage moment had folded after the first electoral defeats. But they stuck it out for seventy years and finally won. The important thing is that they started and kept going.

25. I like the way you call it here

If you think that America under Clinton was our greatest moment and the absolute best we can ever hope for, then go ahead and vote for Kerry.

keep talking this kind of sense and I won't complain

[G_j]

26. agreed n/t

[diamondsoul]

35. lost to what?

to real voter choice? NO! Not even close. If that were the case I'd be fine. It isn't and I'm PISSED.

[scarletwoman]

27. Here's what being a dedicated progressive means to me:

After the awful outcome of election 2000, I asked myself, "What could I do?"

I have now spent two years of steady DFL party work. I am in an excellent position to be a state delegate, and possible go on to the national convention.

It is my steadfast intent that progressive resolutions make it to the party platform, that these ideas WILL enter the conversation.

That is done by strength of numbers. The more delegates Kucinich can win in the remaining remaining primaries/caucuses, the more voice we will have at the national table.

It's STRATEGY. We are in a war for the future of our country and of the world. Does the plutocracy continue to the benefit of the few, or do we institute real change for the benefit of the many?

sw

[Kanary]

38. Ever heard of "high hopes"?

or.. Ghandi, or Martin Luther King?

Sometimes, people who keep going in spite of it all, end up accomplishing more than anyone thought they could.

Hide and watch.

Kanary

[turnhardleft]

40. Only because there are more kerry apologists than progressives

It's almost surreal.

[turnhardleft]

39. Kucinich is not the 'bottom of the pile'

Only in the minds of the DNC elite and right wing.

[Freddie Stubbs]

32. No brokered convention -- Kerry has 60% of delegates currently awarded

Unless thing change very dratically, Kerry will be nominated on the first ballot.

[diamondsoul]

36. Oh and didn't we just know

Freddie would have to weigh in on this?:eyes: Ahem. Get some new material, darlin'.

[scarletwoman]

37. Heh. I guess there'll always be those

who think it their sworn duty to keep exuberant non-acceptance of conventional wisdom in check as much as possible.

:evilgrin:

sw