Clinton disses Martin Luther King Jr., to score points against Obama

[geek tragedy]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Clinton_and_Obama_Johnson_and_King.html

"Dr. King's dream began to be realized when President Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act," Clinton said. "It took a president to get it done."

Clinton didn't explicitly compare herself to Johnson, or Obama to King. But it seems an odd example for the argument between rhetoric and action, as there's little doubt which figure's place in history and the American imagination is more secure.

"The power of that dream became real in people's lives because we had a president" capable of action, Clinton said.

The interview was taped, and I listened in. It's set to air later today.

[Joe the Revelator]

1. What is she thinking?

[rdm]

36. Interesting that she mentions Dr. Martin Luther King the same weekend

I happen to see the Rev. Jesse Jackson in NYC. Unfortunately, neither Hillary nor Mr. Jackson measure up in any way to Dr. King. The nation lost a great man on April 4, 1968.

[Skarbrowe]

2. Good grief.

[alcibiades_mystery]

3. Ouch

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

4. She should just stop talking for a week until she gets herself back in control.

That's disgusting.

[babylonsister]

5. This is getting embarrassing. nt

[Egnever]

6. And the hits keep coming

I swear she is trying to lose

[debatepro]

7. "action" is the key word...

this is their new vector of actack... talk versus action. I have seen it all over the place over the last couple days... this is just the latest incanation of the same argument.

[OKNancy]

8. She wasn't comparing herself to King

Johnson was the one who was able to get Kennedy's progams passed.
More like Obama is the iconic figure like Kennedy, and she is the practical and powerful one like Johnson.

There are plenty of things to not like about her, but I think the author of this piece is just looking for something not there.

[EFerrari]

11. No. She minimized all the times Dr. King put his life in jeopardy,

including the time that got him killed.

[OKNancy]

13. hyperbole n/t

[EFerrari]

17. Not at all.

"Dr. King's dream began to be realized when President Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act," Clinton said. "It took a president to get it done."

No, Mrs. Clinton. It took people putting themselves in harm's way to get it done.

[Cha]

90. This rings true...thanks,

sfexpat. It wasn't thought out on the part of whomever advised her to say it.

[truedelphi]

119. Yes it did. A lot of people getting taken out. in order to bring about

And why Clinton doesn't have consultants that help her show off more reasonable answers, I can't explain.

She has the money to have every answer to every question spelled out for her.

[roguevalley]

132. true. for us in the hinterlands, watching people getting bit by dogs,

beaten by cops and hit with firehoses on the tv shamed us all into doing something about injustice. I loved LBJ because he did the right thing but MLK forced it, he and all the grandmas and grandpas, white and black, who put themselves into harms way. Those of us old enough to remember Jim Crow and
all the olden days can tell you that. Black and white together, Christian and Jewish clergy, all of
them fighting for justice. That is what it took to make the legislatures move and bless LBJ for doing the right thing. But it took the first to make the second happen.

[EFerrari]

144. Most people have no idea what kind of violence was unleashed

on people during those marches and registration drives.

[redqueen]

149. I gotta disagree with you there... it took Congress's actions

and they weren't spurred into action by protesters, but by Johnson's bullying.

[Avalux]

16. Yes she did!

x(

[creeksneakers2]

105. Where does that come from?

I didn't see any mention of the danger Doctor King faced. Nothing at all like it.

People are just twisting her words around.

[EFerrari]

145. My point exactly. No mention. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

131. May I point out that Lyndon Johnson ordered the FBI to wiretap MLK

and the Army to spy on Americans. Johnson also started a death squad program in Vietnam called the Phoenix Program, and he lied the country into war.

If Hillary is comparing herself to Lyndon Johnson...

[AngryAmish]

150. I thought RFK had the FBI wiretap MLK

lots of initials there....

[Avalux]

Does she not understand this sort of talk will not help her?

I find it offensive and she sounds like Bush.

[Avalux]

9. Duplicate post

[mathewsleep]

10. she didn't

try to dig on mlk, but she should have watched her works better. she's getting tired. she's doomed.

[Cha]

92. Welcome to

DU, matthew..you're just in time.

[mathewsleep]

143. i saw this site

and figured i had to get into the fun.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. dayum.

Analysis: Somebody compared her opponent to MLK, so she decided to discredit MLK.

Smooth move, Exlax.

[K Gardner]

14. Minimizing MLK was exactly the way I read it. But be clear, she did it to minimize Obama..

and will pay the ultimate price once again for hasty and ill-thought out comments.

[Anouka]

74. And screwed up twice over in the doing.

I like how Benheeha put it over at Daily Kos:

http://www.dailykos.com/hotlist/add/2008/1/7/16619/70788/displaystory//

"Because MLK wasn't running for President. (0 / 0)

Duh. She is comparing MLK the political activist to Obama the Presidential candidate, which is idiotic, since Obama, as President, would be LBJ and MLK combined. There's no other way to read her comment other than either total idiocy or racial condescension.

Hope + action = change.

Resistance is the secret of joy. - Alice Walker"

[Cha]

94. Thanks, Anouka!

It's definetly not a thought out comment..so was it scripted or ad libbed?

Not that it matters but I just home so this is kinda sad to hear about.

[Catherine Vincent]

15. Where's the diss?

[Yael]

40. Are you serious?

Okie -- how about this. "We don't need black dreamers for civil rights. If it wasn't for the President, they would still be dreaming".

[jgraz]

108. I'm assuming you're speaking figuratively

In which case, you left out a key word:

"We don't need black dreamers for civil rights. If it wasn't for the white President, they would still be dreaming"

That's how the remark is going to play. I don't think she meant it this way but if this is how stupid she gets when she's tired, we need to make sure she takes plenty of naps if she gets elected president.

[FrenchieCat]

18. So MLK died for his beliefs and who he was, but Prez Johnson is the real hero?

:wow:

[EFerrari]

21. Yeah. All those people that were killed and injured

all those people that faced water cannons and beatings and all the rest of it for walking for civil rights -- they were nothing special.

I swear to god, I thought Hillary Clinton was smarter than this.

[FrenchieCat]

25. South Carolina is now out of Clinton's reach, no matter how well she does

in New Hampshire.

[Yael]

42. Thats how I read it too.

I take back everything I have ever said about her. SHe just dug a helluva grave for herself and doesn't need me pointing out the obvious.

[Cha]

100. Foot meet

mouth. :( Tres Triste. It just sucks. I don't want hillary but I wish she wouldn't do this.

I read last night that Obama said to Dianne Sawyer that "the way they were running their campaign lately was kinda despressing" ..I guess so!

[undeterred]

19. Total desperation. She wants it too much.

[windbreeze]

133. orrrr....could it be....that she thought someone guaranteed it was

hers, so she didn't have to worry about anything she said or did....this is awful...I would never have dreamed she could have said something like this...I mean, the fear card was bad enough...the tears, (and yes, as a woman, the tears would have cost her my vote...she has too much actual experience politically to have shown weakness) and now this...meanwhile Bill is saying it's going just as he expected it would...damn...wb

[NOVA_Dem]

20. Hillary Campaign: Time of Death 3:53PM January 7 2008 n/t

[BenDavid]

116. The same kinda crap that was put out Saturday "Get your kids

out and put them in front of the TV: The Clinton Era officially ended at 9:34 p.m. EST when Edwards paired with Obama to bury Hillary as a non-agent of change."

Wait, the "Obama landslide" was what, 38%? That means 62% of Iowa Democrats didn't like Obama, yet Bush's press whores keep saying "America has changed, Obama has charmed the white man."Anybody believe that? Remember what they did to Harold Ford? Who thinks America has changed in the last 14 months?

Come on folks...Stop looking for racists here on the du from hrc supporters and understand the world you reside in.....

[intheflow]

22. This reminds me of a Freeper who was at a UU church I used to go to.

He stood up on MLK Day and said that non-violent protest doesn't work. The reason the schools got desegregated wasn't because of the sit-ins, the passive resistence movement, but only because the National Guard was called in to use force. Ergo: force = peace! :crazy:

[EFerrari]

30. I've said for months that I can't vote for her and I've asked respectfully

for her not to be nomiated.

I can't think of a more disgusting statement for her campaign to come out with than this.

[IndyOp]

31. Hm. How long did the Freeper attend the UU Church? UUer's are known for

tolerance, but many draw the line at tolerating intolerance...

:(

His argument reminds me of the Zell Miller speech at the Republican National Convention (2000? 2004?) that it isn't journalists and lawyers and citizens who defend free speech, it is soldiers who defend it -- again force is required. :eyes:

[intheflow]

61. He's one of the strongholds in that fellowship.

The fellowship is in the Deep South, a very small congregation. Half of them are afraid of kicking the guy out because that would decrease membership, the other half think he should stay because "we might change his heart." (The same argument they use for welcoming KKK members! :puke:) He says he grew up UU, but I think he grew up Libertarian and somehow confused it with UUism. He holds no UU beliefs whatsoever--is so in love with the "free church" idea that he thinks you can be a UU and not have to adhear to any covenent.

[IndyOp]

122. Libertarianism confused with UU beliefs?

Damn, that is weird. Independent discovery of one's spiritual path is not even close to being the same thing as believing that "the highest moral purpose in each man's life is to act in his own self-interest" <-- Ayn Rand paraphrased.

:(

[intheflow]

124. I consider it a

self-centered misinterpretation of the first principle ("The inherent worth and dignity of every person") with no consideration for the seventh principle ("Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part"). :(

[loveangelc]

23. wow.

[bicentennial_baby]

24. Oof.

:popcorn:

[Horse with no Name]

26. This is going to leave a mark.

:(

[EFerrari]

27. People DIED working for the Civil Rights movement.

What is the matter with this person?

[Horse with no Name]

32. I actually clicked on this ready to defend Hillary because of Bill's

relationship with Coretta Scott King.
I wonder how SHE would have interpreted this?:(

[EFerrari]

34. If I have to check out of DU for the duration, I will.

What are we willing to accept?

I can't do this.

[Horse with no Name]

37. Statements like these

send chills down my spine. It is almost as if they cannot wait to increase their power if they get in office.
Richardson did the same thing during the debate when he said he would pursue a line-item veto.
I am not willing to accept Clinton as my candidate. That has to be my final answer.

[Yael]

47. Sis, we just saw the REAL Hillary, up close and in technicolor

Those of us who have had that "nagging feeling" have just had so many confirmations in the last 24 hours that there is no denying it any longer.

Anyone would have to have a martyr wish to log into ANY progressive site and try to spin/defend this.

[EFerrari]

70. Yes. Unfortunately, I'm not that unselfish or self destructive. n/t

[DivorcingNeo]

151. I don't mean this in a rude manner but...

I am a black woman. I've always been disturbed by the notion that some Black Americans felt that Bill Clinton was the (faux) first Black President. It may be his political savvy and the charm he possesses in many ways. However the truth is that his policies were not all that helpful to the Black Community. Murders in black communities rose, poverty continued to plague many black communities, a poor education system, Welfare reform that wasn't really reform at all. Then one of the biggest things that still bothers me is Rwanda.

President Bill Clinton sat by playing semantics, while half a million African people were systematically murdered in 90 days.

To me, his supposed relationship with Coretta Scott King was for image sake. It was equivalent to a photo-op, just to solidify this false notion that he cares about Black Americans and the issues we face. Ironically he is railing against supposed "fairy tales" in regards to Senator Obama. However the lies, manipulations and false portrayals he's given this country for years has been the Biggest fairy tale of all...that didn't pay off.

[balantz]

28. That'll give her som'n to cry about!

[NoBorders]

29. She just needs to go chill for awhile

Seriously. The lack of sleep and stress is getting to her. She needs to regroup.

[Horse with no Name]

33. Agreed.

Saying nothing for a day or two is better than breaking down or saying stuff like this.

[NoBorders]

38. Yup. I'm not an HRC supporter, but

I don't want to see her go down in an ignominious fashion.

[EFerrari]

43. I don't think many of us do.

She tried to make a difference when women were still hitting up against the glass ceiling. She deserves all the credit in the world for that, and also, for backing Bill when he was under fire.

But, there's something that is out of control here. Out of control and ugly and disregarding of the people.

[rdm]

46. Is this what Hillary calls a "Cry-Sis"???

If she gets this messed up during the campaign, I would be scared to death of what would happen if she were in a serious international crisis...... or maybe our other world leaders would be more sensitive and send her a box of Kleenex and a gallon of ice cream...... I dont think so!!

[Bluerthanblue]

39. agree with both of you-

this entire primary is such a crazy mess.

I think the nation as a whole needs a major time-out.

Gotta say though, I hope she has the humility to clarify her statement when she's had time to reflect.

It was a major mis-speak.

[JackORoses]

35. MLK marched in the streets and died for his cause, all LBJ had to do was sign a piece of paper

nice try, Hillary

Diminishing one of the greatest leaders our country has ever had will not make you look good.

[Cha]

102. It's like a rookie

thing to say to puff yourself up with a red herring that turned rancid before your eyes.

[City Lights]

110. You summed up my thoughts nicely. eom

[balantz]

41. I'm kind of wondering what she may do next?

[Yael]

49. This is where I have been all day too

First we have the tears, then the Rudy call, now dissing MLK as an insignificant dreamer (and certainly not a real leader!!!)

Whats next?

[balantz]

58. I didn't hear about the Rudy call, what was that?

I think she's really getting scared and desperate. Remember how she started to get a little crazy for a few moments in the debate? She really tries to stay calm, cool and collected, but the pressure is really getting to her!

[Yael]

82. The Rudy Game

Here ya go -- http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/07/556046.aspx

Lame, lame, lame

[Cha]

104. Someone on DU predicted

that the other night only in reverse.

[Yael]

113. LOL! How funny.

or sad, depending.

[Cha]

115. Predictiable when you're

desperate like rudy..and that is :(

[NOVA_Dem]

53. This is a Britney Spears type of meltdown n/t

[Yael]

54. Then tell her to put her panties back on and check into rehab

[Yael]

112. Next up, the terror card. Man alive. What is left? Abolish the IRS?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3982628

[enough already]

44. Dear lord....

Has she lost it completely?

"Take it easy, Champ. Why don't you sit this next one out, stop talking for a while." - Brian Fantana

[BattyDem]

45. What the hell was she thinking?

:wow:

[rdm]

51. Hmmm... Hillary + Pressure = this??? Not Good, Not good! eom

[maximusveritas]

59. Yes, this proves those tears were real

She's struggling under the pressure.

She answered this without thinking through the implications.

[rdm]

65. It just goes to show her inability to handle pressure. We need better...eom

[MichiganVote]

48. Without Johnson it was only a dream. Even King acknowledged Johnson's commitment.

AND was acknowledged by Johnson in return. A new plank in the civil rights movement started with Black and White students, called the Council of Federated Organizations (COFO). They initiated massive voter-registration drives in the Summer of 1964.

Dr. King was present at the White House while President Lyndon B. Johnson signed the Public Accommodation and Fair Employment sections to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 on July 2, 1964.

It took many people many hours and many sacrifices to pass the Civil Rights Act. But it did take a President to sign it into law and Johnson did it.

Would Bush?

[Yael]

52. Johnson did it all on his own, because he was a leader. King was just a dreamer.

Do I have the story straight?

[MichiganVote]

76. No but you clearly aren't interested in my point of view or information so why bother.

Feel superior? Good, that's important for you. I can live without it.

[psychopomp]

134. Quoting your summary:

"It took many people many hours and many sacrifices to pass the Civil Rights Act. But it did take a President to sign it into law and Johnson did it."

Many hours? How about many liters of blood? How about many cracks on the skull with a nightstick? How about many lives of people braver, more passionate about the cause of justice than (I would wager) you or I?

[creeksneakers2]

117. Nothing like that was said

You don't have the story straight, probably because you twisted it up.

[EFerrari]

55. It took many people putting theier bodies out there

for Johnson to get that opportunity.

Please.

[Yael]

57. And he wasn't their leader. He signed a freakin piece of paper.

[EFerrari]

60. At considerable political cost to himself. I don't want to discount that.

Because that wouldn't be fair.

But, many, many people put their hides on the line before it got to Lyndon.

[MichiganVote]

80. But the point is, a President did sign it. And LBJ also had his political hide on the line.

He was not a likable character in politics to many people and the whole Nam thing was real bad. But LBJ did care about minorities and that can't be denied.

[EFerrari]

87. A president didn't make it possible.

Please. You're embarrassing already.

[MichiganVote]

99. History my love. A president had to sign it and yes, Johnson was very instrumental.

[EFerrari]

146. That isn't what she said, although being president is hard work, I know.

If she can't manage her own mouth, how can she manage the country?

[Yael]

85. Well stated. I never said he wasn't a good man, but to give him the

responsibility/credit for the civil rights movement (as Hillary did) is over the top.

[EFerrari]

88. Lyndon Johnson was a master politician.

And he did not seek the Civil Rights movement.

[Yael]

91. I thought he inherited it from Kennedy?

[EFerrari]

93. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

Kennedy didn't seek it either. :)

[Samantha]

137. He did

Johnson rammed through several of Kennedy's initiatives after the assassination. Historians say it was because the nation was in grief over Kennedy's loss and the way he died, and Johnson shared in that grief.

After reading more on the turn of events during that era, I cannot help but wonder if Johnson did so to divert suspicion (or investigation) into his (Johnson's) participation. However, the passage of that historical legislation did in fact prompt many Southern Democrats to leave the party and to become Republicans. And good riddance to those who did....

[MichiganVote]

78. Yeah, well be sure to tell that to all the Afican Americans in the US about that piece of paper.

Maybe they'll ask you to sign something someday.

[Yael]

84. I am certainly not going to tell them that was the basis of the civil rights movement if thats what

you are implying.

[MichiganVote]

101. That's what you would like to infer from what I have written, but it is not what I have written.

[MichiganVote]

75. As I noted in my post. Did you read it or just do a drive by?

[EFerrari]

77. You must be joking. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

[MichiganVote]

81. Yeah I must be. You are pretty funny yourself.

[EFerrari]

86. I hope so, I'm a comedy writer working for union scale.

And, there's no way Lyndon would have had the opportunity had not thousands of people put their bodies in harm's way marching for civil rights.

And, please go find someone who is willing to put up with your bs. I'm not.

[MichiganVote]

96. Well even comedy writers need material so here you go....

This is the history you didn't pay attention to in school.

The CRA was introduced by JFK in 1963. It was sent to the House where the bill was strengthened by Rep. Cellers and others. Rep Smith from Virginia intended to hold the thing up and did so for a time. BTW, he was a Democrat. Kennedy tried to prevail but in the meantime he was shot.

Thereafter it was Johnson who used his experience in Congressional legislation to promote a number of moves in both the house and the senate to get the thing passed, which it eventually did in the Senate by a large margin. It was Johnson's public advocacy of the bill and some arm twisting that enable the thing to get passed, a fate that was in no way certain.

There is nothing in my comments that denies the national contributions of men like King. But ok, believe what you want or read into my comment whatever you like. You are, afterall, the comedian.


edit/spell

[progressoid]

50. Oh fer cryin out loud

That gonna go over as well as Biden's "clean and articulate" remark.

[EFerrari]

56. So, how well is Biden and his mouth doing today?

[Anouka]

67. Obama had his back.

He's doing fine.

[Anouka]

62. We will celebrate Dr. King's birthday this month.

LBJ did the right thing, in spite of the political fallout to his party and to himself,...

but he wouldn't have done it, without the hopes, dreams and sacrifices of those who lived, breathed, DIED and DREAMED for civil rights.

Barack Obama is a candidate, because of the hopes, dreams and sacrifices of those who came before, and died before. Obama is living that dream. His wife Michelle is that dream come to life. Their two beautiful daughters will be able to enjoy the continued yield of the fruit of that dream held by those who came before, and died before, on the streets, from the ends of ropes, under the overseers' whips, in the hulls of ships shackled together... and those who saw the horrors from the outside, and said they weren't going to allow this to happen to people just because they looked different.

I don't know what Hillary was trying to do, especially since Hillary saw Dr. King in person and was inspired by him. Something has happened to Hillary to distort her. I don't know what, but something has happened to the idealistic woman.

Because of how horrible her quotation is, I'm going to assume that this was just her misspeaking and the words didn't come out right. I'm going to assume that she didn't really intend to denigrate Dr. King, it just came out wrong.

Because of how horrible her quotation is, I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt that she didn't mean it like this at all. I'm not going to be like the fake Hillary supporters who bring up McClurkin as 'proof' that Obama is a homophobe and anti-gay rights.

[balantz]

63. What did Scotty of Star Trek always tell Kirk when they needed more power?

[EFerrari]

66. "Captain, the boys in the engine room haven't had shore leave

for a month o' Sundays".

lol

[balantz]

72. He also said "I can't give it any more cap'n, she's gonna blow!"

[midnight]

64. I could be wrong here, but wasn't that John Kennedy's baby........

He was removed before it was signed into office, and luckily it was. I'm not trying to take away from Johnsons good sense to move that bill along. Other than that, I don't see what the problem is? Maybe there is more to it in the tape.

[gmudem]

68. She really needs to take a break after tomorrow

She is clearly stressed and tired and needs a rest. As much as I dislike her this is almost painful to watch.

[Skinner]

69. Ouch. Not good.

Really, really not good.

[EFerrari]

73. Especially not good for those of us who are looking for a reason

to back her should the Dems nominate her.

Cr@p.

/okay, timing out :(

[zulchzulu]

71. She's probably crying because her mouth hurts from putting her foot in it so much

Sheesh... just when I thought she couldn't go any lower...

As for her crying today, who gives a rat's ass. She is doing more to hurt the woman's movement than Phyllis Schafly ever could.

Toughen up, Hillary. And watch you mouth.

[book_worm]

79. And Hillary was a "Goldwater Girl" in '64

campaigning for Barry Goldwater who opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

[OKNancy]

83. I wish people would knock that off... SHE was a teenager

living in her Republican father's house. She couldn't vote ( age was 21 then)
by her Senior year in college she was campaigning for Eugene McCarthy.

Get another strawman please.

[EFerrari]

89. It's not a strawman if it's true.

[knowledgeispwr]

95. Dang. Simply, dang.

I'm not a Clinton supporter, but I've felt some of the hits on her lately have been unfair (e.g. the "outburst" at the debate was blown way out of proportion). I would also definitely vote for her in the GE is she is democratic nominee.

That said: Geez! Not a very good move at all! I understand what she meant. Johnson role was key, but it took a movement led by King and others to even get to that point. Her statement sounds like she's minimizing King.

I kind of feel sorry for her, because it seems like one hit to her campaign after another.

[suston96]

97. Nothing remotely connected between the thread title and the quoted text......

Everything in the text is true. I remember.

I remember when JFK was elected, and when he was killed And I recall that I rejoiced when Lyndon Johnson jawboned Congress into passing the Civil Rights Act 1964, and then the Voting Rights Acts 1965.

No, I did not march with Martin Luther King, but I remember the connection between what Martin Luther King did and that powerful legislation passed by Congress.

I remember when Martin Luther King was killed in April of 1968 and when Robert F. Kennedy was killed a couple of months later.

I remember I cried way too many times in the 1960s. Crying? Oh, that's on another thread.

[SaveElmer]

98. Your subject line is a bald faced lie...

She is absolutely correct...as MLK himself said...

[Laurab]

111. Sorry, this one just can't be spun.

I know there are a lot of ridiculous bashing threads on here, and most all of them are things taken out of context or just plain bs, but this one just cannot be spun, by anyone. She's losing it in her desperation.

The "pundits" all said she couldn't afford to attack Obama because it always seemed to backfire on her, and it looks as though they were right. If she keeps it up, she's just handing him the nomination.

[pgh_dem]

103. The implied insult to Dr. King aside, this is just politically foolish.

Would any politician seriously want to set up a LBJ/MLK comparison, and cast *themselves* in the LBJ role?

[Cha]

106. No one with any

vision and foresight!

[XemaSab]

123. Especially since for the younger generation

LBJ is remembered less for the voting rights act and more for escalating the war. :crazy:

[pgh_dem]

152. And even moreso, remembered for deciding NOT to seek

another term, when it became obvious that other Democratic candidates, who *opposed* the Vietnam war, were likely to beat the crap out of him in the primaries. That's REALLY a comparison ya don't want, given Sen Clinton's current position.

[Byronic]

107. Aw, gee,

I know the point she was making but I can see how people could take it the wrong way.

Incidentally, Lyndon B Johnson may very well have built on the Civil Rights foundations laid (not always greatly enthusiastically it must be said) by President Kennedy, but it took the full 'Johnson Treatment', and quite remarkable political will and skill to force it through. Perhaps one could not have happened without the other.

The 'Great Society' had LBJ stamped all over it. A series of quite remarkable domestic achievements.

Johnson's foreign policy was a disaster, but, boy oh boy, what I would give to have him as the Senate Majority Leader right now. The Republicans would stand no chance against the force of nature that was LBJ leading Democrats in the Senate.

But, I'm getting off point, and perhaps I am making a better case for Hillary Clinton to become Senate Majority Leader than President.

[sniffa]

109. oh dear

:wow:

Now, I'm starting to almost feel sorry for her; she's really crashing and burning.

[ElizabethDC]

114. I didn't think she was dissing King, I thought she was saying that achieving change is a process

and that there are different components to that process - King mobilized and inspired the people and his influence there cannot and should not be understated. But he couldn't do it all on his own - for the political side of things to be accomplished, there had to be someone to attend to the practical and often mundane political aspect. I think she was merely trying to point out that King and Johnson had two different roles. I can she how she might have been misinterpreted, but I really, really don't think she meant it that way. I know there are a lot of people here who think that Hillary is a horrible person, but I don't believe that she'd want to minimize King's life and work in any way.

[creeksneakers2]

118. She's absolutely right

King led a movement and did an incredible job. Johnson turned the ideas and dreams into actual law. King changed hearts. Johnson changed practices. It took more than a dream to change reality.

Obama is a great leader. He might be great at fulfilling his ideas with real action. Hillary is just saying she could do a better job on the second part.

She never said anything like what she's accused of here, but there's nothing new about that. Personally, I'm thinking about switching to Obama because I don't like the way Hillary has gone negative and think there must be something wrong because she can't see how much her tactics backfire. But I'm going to continue to defend Hillary because the way she is treated by the GOP, the media, the far left and posters on this board is horrible.

[origin1286]

120. Regardless...

There mere fact it can be taken as minimizing what King did by I'd say probably half the people who read/hear the quote makes it a ridiculous quote.

I don't get what the Hillary campaign is trying to do. They need to use comparisons that can't possible be misinterpreted.

I interpreted the quote as implying Dr. King was talk, Johnson was action. Bad route to go.

[mnhtnbb]

121. While MLK and civil rights protesters were pushing for change,

Johnson was escalating the war in Vietnam, sending far too many of our youth to die. Not a good reference, Hillary

[Colobo]

127. Bingo!

[Colobo]

128. Bingo!

[Occam Bandage]

125. She wasn't dissing King. She was simply explaining that

change requires both desire and competence. King gave the nation the desire, but change couldn't occur until a competent President signed the Civil Rights Act into law.

[Colobo]

126. Without the desire, the change would have never occurred.

What Dr. King did for this nation can't never, ever, be minimized.

[Occam Bandage]

129. Absolutely true, and Clinton wasn't minimizing that. She credits King for that desire.

And that desire was indeed the "hard part." But without a President able to help engineer the passage of a controversial bill, the desire would have been fruitless. And that was her point: that both are required for change to occur.

[EFerrari]

138. Desire? The man gave his life.

And there would have been no bill without him.

[Occam Bandage]

140. He did, and his life's work was filling the nation with that desire for freedom. There indeed

would have been no bill without him, and Clinton does not doubt that or minimize it. Both the desire and the ability are necessary factors.

[EFerrari]

148. You can't rewrite it. She already said it. Looking back,

Hillary Clinton will be remembered as one of the most painfully self serving politicians ever to embarrass the Democratic Party.

[LittleBlue]

130. Is there no end to this candidate's gaffes?

STFU. You're done, now stop damaging the party.

[vee]

135. First Time Poster, Had to Reply

There is no way that I could ever vote for anyone that doesn't understand the relationship between Hope and Achievement.
MLK's HOPE is what INSPIRED thousands to lay their lives on the line and ultimately achieve civil rights legislation.

HOPE leads to inspiration, inspiration is what's responsible for every achievement we have ever made.
Without HOPE there would be no Picasso, Beethoven, Einstein or MLK.

This country is in a sorry state, it desperately needs someone who understands the dynamics of HOPE and how hope will inspire us
to make this a better place.

[TheDonkey]

136. that's low if she is getting to what I think

[MessiahRp]

139. Worse than Kerry's military-education joke

by a lot and in the heart of a campaign. We should all know by now intent and context play no role in how the media portrays this. But as someone who calculates her every political move she should have thought a lot harder about this and should apologize and correct herself immediately.

Rp

[Sparkly]

141. The comparison was between Kennedy and Johnson.

I finally got the actual story.

Thanks for playing.

[gdaerin]

142. Shameless

The question I've been wondering about is, will Hillary, when she's just completely desperate and has no more dirty tricks to play, will she go to the ultimate low of making a racist statement?

I kind of knew she would, deep down.

Disgusting, really, she insults us all, because this means she thinks We're racist too!

That makes me so mad, and then sad. Does she wonder why people don't want to be around her? She's throwing that mud at Obama and hitting the rest of us at the same time, well whatever it takes, I guess that's what politics are all about for Hillary.

I felt a little sympathy today with the clip of her "choking up" I really did, but I can't forgive her with assuming that I am a racist, that's so hateful, what's wrong with her?!

[redqueen]

147. How the everlovin FUCK is that anything even CLOSE to "dissing"?

Holy crap!

:rofl:

This shit is too much, really...