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unfrigginreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 08:58 PM
Original message
A Dean supporter responds to Josh Marshall
Edited on Mon Dec-29-03 09:00 PM by unfrigginreal
I thought that I'd share what a friend of mine wrote in a response to Marshall.
-----

I've been observing -- and supporting -- Howard Dean for nearly a year now, well before the famous CA speech (tho that would've gotten me were I not already a supporter). He has pledged repeatedly that he will not only endorse whoever is the nominee but also urge his supporters to do so.

But that's really not the issue. To understand what he means, you have to actually understand his campaign, by which I mean the WHOLE campaign including just who his supporters are. Legions of them are formerly apathetic, formerly (self-) disenfranchised non-voters. They see in Howard Dean, as I do, someone who is worthy of their support for the first time in their lives.

"These kids" (as he put it) -- not all of them are kids, by any means -- are NOT necessarily transferrable. I'm not exactly one of them. At age 55 I've been voting for a lot of years, and Dem each and every time without fail. BUT if Howard Dean doesn't get the nomination, it will be very hard for me to vote for someone else. I will -- unless my state isn't in play, in which case I won't.

We are soooo sick of politics as usual, the pandering, the venality, the greed, the kinds of political calculus that goes into voting, for example, for an unjust, unjustifiable, immoral, illegal war on a country was was no threat to us at all.

We want the TRUTH, and we want real representation for a change. Howard Dean and Joe Trippi have not only been listening to us, they've been empowering us. I'll never go back to the way it was before. Never. Vote for someone else? Only if I absolutely must, but it'll take a force of willpower stronger than just about any I've ever conjured up prior to this.

And just where do these Democratic candidates get off thinking that they are somehow entitled our votes? Seems to me this one thing is a good bit of what has been wrong with some of their campaigns: a sense of entitlement. Newsflash: If a candidate wants my vote, then he goldarned better do something -- or better yet BE something -- worth voting for.

Are we transferrable? Not really. We all want Bush out -- desperately, but it's possible that more than that we want a revolution in what it means to be a Democrat, what it means to have a real political process, what it means to be an American.

Yeah, I'll vote for "whomever," if I must -- but there'll be no money from me, no volunteerism from me, no email address of mine in any DLC database. Howard Dean speaks for me 99.9% of the time, but he doesn't own my vote. Anyone who wants that vote, let alone any greater form of commitment, better pay close attention.

Unfortunately, you're not helping these guys get it. Perhaps that's because you don't get it either. Pity.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't know where you got this but
it's really good. :hi:

Julie
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Damn. Yes. That's a good one.
There's a lot of passion in the Dean campaign.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. Speaking for someone 99.9% of the time is a bit of a stretch
Excuse me but that kind of claim, taken literally, suggests the kind of blind allegiance that troubles many of us.... but I quibble.
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Closer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. Excellent letter!
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Redbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. To me, it's a very sad letter.
Edited on Mon Dec-29-03 09:26 PM by Redbear
It's someone whose allegiance to Howard Dean is so great he or she doesn't realize John Kerry or John Edwards or Wes Clark would be an improvement of 1000% over the Bush disaster. I supported Graham. Now I like Edwards and Clark. But if Dean win, I am with him 100% in money, time, and effort. Its sad to see Dean supporters who wont do the same if one of my guys win.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. To me it is coming down to a stark realization.
I posted a thread in regular GD about the Iraq war and PNAC. I think that only two of our candidates even oppose this empire building, in which "Iraq is the immediate justification".

I know Dean does, and I know Kucinich does. I believe Graham did, and he saw what was happening...and he voted against the war.

I am afraid of our empire building and these goals of remapping the middle east. We do not appear to be very good at it, and I think we should stop it.

I firmly believe that our congressmen knew well what they were voting for, that is was more than just Iraq. I am afraid they knew it for sure and voted yes anyway.

I don't want our country invading countries who are no immediate danger. I don't want us to instill fear throughout the world.

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ProudToBeLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. right to the point
Great letter
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PsN2Wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. Should Dean not get the nomination
you can vote for Bush, by Gawd, that'll really show'em.
If you really think there will be a "revolution" you haven't learned much in your 55 years. They, meaning the Repubs in general and the Bushies in particular, have the really big guns. Your revolution will be much more effective, if first, Bush is defeated, then you work for change, in the party and in the system.
If Bush is reelected due to indifference by people like you , then you deserve what you get, however I don't.
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polpilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Working for change in the party is EXACTLY what the Dean group is
doing. Sick of pro-war, pro-Bush, Bush-like, Bush-lite, reach-across-the-aisle democrats. This is what a revolution looks like and anybody in Kerry, Liebs, or Gep camp has learned a BIG lesson this year.

Dean '04...
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Scott Lee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. I think Josh Marshall just got handed his patoot.
Pity, too. He has such a nice website.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-03 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #9
25. Pity since his name is Josh.
It dates him a bit.
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Polemonium Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. Great letter
The belief that we can do better is the fuel of the Dean campaign. The uninspiring DLC et al. have openly treated people like sheep for too long. Sure there are alot of sheep out there but no one likes to be treated like one.
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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
11. If you're so sick of politics as usual, why support Dean?
After all, he changes positions as often as he changes underwear, he make transparent appeals for party unity while dumping on other candidates, and he's yet to meet a left-wing beltway interest group he wouldn't pander to.

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retyred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Let me guess
not a dean supporter, right? Well you better remember this, If dean doesn't get the nod.....We will beat bush.....then what? And it'll be all your fault. /sarcasm



retyred in fla
“good night Paul, wherever you are”

So I read this book
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Scott Lee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Don't worry, howard's gonna fix it. Whether you want him to or not.
Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean...Dean.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-03 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Deleted message
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. Josh's rule for the Democratic Party
The price of admission to the Democratic primary race is a pledge of committed support to whomever wins the nomination, period. (The sense of entitlement to other Democrats' support comes after you win the nomination, not before.) If Dean can't sign on that dotted-line, he has no business asking for the party's nomination.

Dean is the ONLY one I've heard say that he will support whomever gets the nomination!!!

But JOSH doesn't CARE!!
I don't care if Dean says he'll endorse whoever wins.

Where ARE those contracts signed by the other eight nominees of their pledges to support whomever wins the nomination? They haven't even HINTED at it, much less signed any dotted line.
Talk about a double frickin standard. I think beanie land has invaded.
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dajabr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Meanwhile, the other 8 had their arms pinned to their sides...
When asked to raise their hands in support of a fellow Dem Candidate. Pathetic!

:puke:
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-03 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #16
26. I am so glad
that dupe posts are not allowed. I would hate to have to ask the same question another three times tonight.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
17. This is a classic example of someone who is being swindled by a conman
Edited on Mon Dec-29-03 11:50 PM by zulchzulu
Like many ideas and dubious business plans in the internet economy that were nothing but swindles based on questionable practices and vaporware, the Internet Candidate has more than a few similiarities; distortion of his record, distortion of other candidates' records and dubious belief in the candidate as a viable one against Bush in 2004 are just a few bullet points in the vapid elevator pitch.

What's worse is the idea that if Dean doesn't get the nomination, that the supporter will not participate, volunteer or possibly participate in the election process.

Perhaps that would be a good thing after all.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-03 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. The transformation of mere dislike into "hate" by the persecuted Deans
is really weird.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-03 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Hello...Dislike is hate
hate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ht)
v. hat·ed, hat·ing, hates
v. tr.

To feel hostility or animosity toward.
To detest.
To feel dislike or distaste for: hates washing dishes.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-03 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Hmmm. I don't see a rule about "candidate dislikers"
I wonder why?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-03 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #18
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-03 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
23. It's not the kind of point of view I'd like to see promoted
But, it's also a point of view that exists among many, so it must be taken into account.
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