Don't look to Obama or Hillary or JE to bring 'change'

[sjdnb]

You'll only be disappointed.

The recent comparison of Obama to Carter reminded me of this sad, but true, fact.

Only the people, en mass, have any chance of affecting real change ... and, not with a single vote - but, through persistent protests and activism.

The other stuff may make you 'feel good' for a while, but, in the end, you'll still be left holding the bag.

[Mythsaje]

1. Teddy and FDR managed it fairly well...

So did JFK.

The leader's the fulcrum, the people are the leverage.

[sjdnb]

4. FDR had the bombing of Pearl Harbor

before that, try as he might, he could not get America to enter into the conflict even though innocents were being slaughtered. But, after Pearl Harbor, he could have said anything and the country would have agreed/followed (for Bush that would be 9/11).

JFK - same thing, fear of Russian Nukes/Cuba. Now, Bobby Kennedy a whole different story - one of the saddest days of my life the day he died.

Now, Teddy Roosevelt, don't know much about his presidency except he was a conservationist and maybe, just maybe, the S-A war (Rough Riders/Charging up some hill) provided him with some leeway to appear successful. I do know he was an imperialist who believed in intervention/occupation of lesser nations to save us from the 'uncivilized' factions that were characterized as threats.

Seems a recurring theme - war/fear.

[Mythsaje]

5. I'm talking domestic issues here...

Teddy was anti-corruption and anti-monopoly, and a conservationist. He bought into the white man's burden meme, but just about everyone did back then, particularly from his class.

FDR gave us the New Deal.

JFK gave America hope and vision.

[sjdnb]

7. And, still ... with all these great 'change agents' you cite

we find ourselves here.

That is my point. NO ONE President or even a group of politicians will cause real change without participation of the citizenry - beyond voting.

[BeyondGeography]

2. Did Jimmy Carter start out as a community organizer...I forget

Obama has forgotten more about activism than you'll ever know. If it's a President who'll motivate Americans to get involved that you want, there hasn't been a better choice in years.

[sjdnb]

8. Read up on Carter and get back to me ...

Obviously, you know little of his early life.

[BeyondGeography]

13. And you might want to read the story of Obama's entire life

There are legitimate reasons to prefer other candidates. Yours stated in the OP isn't one of them.

[melody]

3. I disagree -- Bush has brought us hell

Any change from that seems to me like a godsend.

[sjdnb]

6. So, it doesn't matter who you vote for ... as long as it's not Bush?

Because that really was not the context of the post ... yeah, Bush sucks. But, if the country expects some progressive, radical, change out of the next President - whoever it might be, they're gonna be disappointed.

Ain't gonna happen - without the citizenry demanding (either through civil disobedience, protest, or other activism), en mass, to make it happen.

Fact is, people don't like to hear that because they would rather think by casting their vote for some politician - will magically make everything better.

And, I think they will be very disappointed.

[melody]

9. The point is, I'm beyond disappointment.

Anyone hoping for some Valhalla of Enlightenment in this Plantation Nation is the one setting himself/herself
up for disappointment. The country of our own people (and by that I mean all Americans, no matter our subgroups)
is gone now. All we can do is hope for better.

I think my point, beyond that, is I'm so negative and disappointed that anything will seem like salvation.

[sjdnb]

10. But, you're just the type of person that can make change happen

as long as you don't give up or look to some single candidate to do it for them.

My point was, it will take average Americans - who care and are willing to stand up to power, to make change happen. People like you and me. Who organize (yeah, 'union' is not a dirty word) and present our grievances in such a way that they cannot continue to ignore us.

[melody]

12. Why do you think I'm here?

But to quote the great Ms. Huffington, when the house is on fire, you don't redecorate. Our house is on
fire. My background is in anthropology. The majority of civilization is controlled by simple-minded domesticated primates. The sociopathic ones will always dupe the ignorant and blindly religious. So the rest of us need to hang together in the strongest group we
can to bring down the other side. Yes, it makes for only two choices. Yes, it's an appallingly syllogistic future, but it's the one we have.

I've been through all the phases of mourning for the optimism of the progressive and populist movements. I'm in acceptance.
It is, imho, the only truly high ground we have to stand.

[killbotfactory]

11. You and Obama are on the same page

With his old classmates from Columbia, he had talked frequently about political change. Now, he was moving to Chicago to put that talk into action. His 1995 memoir, Dreams from My Father, recounts his idealistic effusions: "Change won't come from the top, I would say. Change will come from a mobilized grass roots. That's what I'll do. I'll organize black folks. At the grass roots. For change."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/17/10223/596/194/422872