My obligatory Nader thread. And it's pro-Nader supporter, too.

[John_H]

Sort of. For all of the silly Nader apologies cluttering DU--that not a one of Nader voters would have voted for Gore, that eight zillion Dems voted Republican, that Clinton's penis cast thousands of ballots, etc.--I'm surprised that no Naderites have mentioned the only way Gore could have made every Nader vote irrelevant.

There's only one way that Gore could have won after the votes were cast, and he blew it.

Gore could have gone on TV and said, "There are so many irregularities in this election--the disenfranchisement of voters, ballot problems, and machine problems to name a few--that there is only one way to determine who Floridians chose to be their president. And that is to count all of Florida's votes by hand. Since fairness is more important than winning, I have instructed my lawyers to request a statewide recount using standards identical to those signed into law by Governor Bush less than one year ago."

It would have been over. Chimp would have lost the PR battle (since he couldn't have possibly fought a method he signed) and, as it turns out, the election at that moment.

Gore would have had to file for a recount in every county separately, but that was certainly doable with the number of lawyers who were ready and willing to help. If Brazil et. al. had decided the day after the election to demand a hand count of all the votes, the papers could have been filed immediately after the machine recount.

This would have eliminated at least two weeks of wasted time and

This is actually the ONLY valid point the Nader supporters make since it was the only way the Gore campaign could have made the Nader effect irrelevant.

There were people in the Gore campaign who were arguing for that position, and it turns out that they were right and that the wobbly kneed Gore advisers who won the day cost Gore the presidency.

Why do I want to give Nader supportrs with their argument? I don't. I just think we should remind ourselves that when you're dealing with the rethugs it's always better to risk a nasty fight than to finesse them.

[The Zanti Regent]

1. Dream on

the GOP majority in the Florida legislature was ready to name a slate of Bush electors and there was nothing that Gore could do to stop them.

[John_H]

5. Even Tom Delay would have recognized that as suicidal for the GOP

Rethugs are evil but they're not THAT dumb. A state legislature overturning an election conducted by the very method their candidate signed into law is beyond even Tom Delay's pale. Not only because even the most Bush shilling media whore couldn't have spun it but because, with Dems controlling the majority of state legislatures at that time, they wouldn't have risked setting the precedent of state legislatures deciding every close election.

[mobuto]

2. Where was Nader?

Gore in retrospect should have taken a different approach in dealing with the recount business, but where was Nader? Thousands of voters were turned away from the polls, most of them African-American, and Gore filed suit.

Where was Nader?

Why didn't Nader say one word about Florida?

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. I do wish Gore had done that, had stuck up for the full hand count

I'm not at all a repentent Nader voter. Yes, I hate what has happened under Bu$h, but no I don't regret casting my vote for Nader. By all logic it ought to have been the perfect time to cast that dissenting vote of conscience. Gore, despite the slick willy issue, was coming off of what looked like a great incumbency. It should have been locked down TIGHT for him.

I mean, come on. How could he lose to a guy he can't even speak ENGLISH?!

By hook and crook, that's how.

Dang that Katherine Harris!

[bluestateguy]

4. True

You are correct that Gore could have taken the initiative by requesting a statewide hand recount under the terms you mentioned, though the Florida leg. still could have given him the middle finger. Also, there is the overseas absentee vote problem: many of the ballots from military bases had no postmark, in clear violation of Florida law. Republicans were juist setting up to demagogue that issue, and the Gore team fell right into the trap. Trying to have those ballots disqualified was correct under state law, and many of the Republican controlled county election officials agreed, but Republicans demagogued them into submission. Then Joe Lieberman completely undercut the Gore team's position by capitulating to Tim Russert's bullying on the MTP. So you are right, but there were other potholes that would have had to have been navigated.

[RichM]

6. I remember Lieberman doing that on MTP. My jaw dropped open in

astonishment. Looking back on it, one now realizes what a jerk Lieberman is, so it's not such a total shock. But at the time, I was astounded by this capitulation.

[John_H]

7. I don't remember: when the media did the recount, did they also do

absentee ballots? Did Gore win under any scenario once all the absentee ballots, even the illegal ones, were taken into account?