Serious question about Kerry

[MsDemeander]

He was complaining about Viet Nam being used in this election but his current commercials have him with Nam Brothers and scenes of him in Viet Nam. My mother always told me not to complain about the actions of others while doing the very thing that you're complaining about.

What's up with that? :shrug:

[trumad]

1. And my mom told me to bring facts to the table

How about a link showing Kerry complaining about Nam in this election... Ya probably got your facts messed up... You might be thinking 1992...

[MsDemeander]

4. Link inside

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/article_8166.shtml

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

9. From your own fucked up right wing article

Kerry had stated ad nauseam that he was ready for any national security questions with a “bring it on” mantra that now appears to be nothing more than an applause line. But try as he might, he will not be able to run from this mantra by attempting to deflect legitimate criticism into complaints that his patriotism is under attack. America is at war, and the Kerry campaign would serve itself better to prepare answers, not excuses and victimization. The Bush campaign telegraphed their strategy to question John Kerry’s long congressional voting record, and Kerry invited it, stated that he was prepared for it by delivering his signature applause line at every stop on the stump. “Bring-----It----On.”

The invitation has been accepted. The Bush team is ready to “bring it.”

[MsDemeander]

11. "MY" right wing article????

I know not to post from right wing sites. I check this one out and it looked pretty both-sided to me. Why the attack on me by big-league posters like you? I'm new here so cut me some slack please.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

13. Yeah right

[mitchum]

16. Hmmm...new posters aren't to be "belittled" because they are new,...

but one should still be "cut some slack" because they are new? Odd.

[sangh0]

17. No, your right-wing lie

Kerry didn't complain about Bush* using VietNam in this campaign. Kerry complained about it being used to question his patriotism. Kerry not only wants to talk about VietNam in this campaign, he has challenged Bush* to a debate on the topic.

I check this one out and it looked pretty both-sided to me

If you had really check it out, then you'd know what Kerry complained about. Your "checking it out" is just as believable as your initial sophistries

[sangh0]

25. How did you "Check it out"????

Did you run it past Drudge?

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sangh0]

34. You call that "checking it out"?

You didn't do anything to check that the assertions it made were true?

And you call that "checking it out"?

[MsDemeander]

45. I guess I just don't measure up to your standards

Sue me.

[sangh0]

56. Sue you? Too easy

I've got better plans than that

[MsDemeander]

71. Much easier than trying to understand me right?

Even easier to discount and attack me. I came here for discussion not to be attacked and "Carlos'ed".

[molly]

73. Carlos? Is that you?

[MsDemeander]

79. No but "I know who you are and saw what you did"

I've been reading here since right after the selection. I though it was time to chime in but it's looking like another misplaced rendezvous...with you.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

81. Oh fucking PLEASE!!!

For your information I still correspond with Carlos..so give me a fucking break.

You posted and article that licks Saxby Chambliss' ass in this link. YOu claim Perot led to a presidency that lost the White House due to scandal on another link, invoke Ted Kennedy's name in another link, and then claim to love Nader in another link, all the while smeaing Kerry wherever you can.

What a TOTAL FUCKING CROCK!

[MsDemeander]

110. Are you calling me a liar?

Please clarify.

[molly]

82. You've been reading here since right after the selection

and your blood never boiled enough to post? Why now?

[MsDemeander]

109. Why now?

Because there is too much to lose in this election.

Why did you finally post when you did?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

76. Attacked and Carlos'ed?

Well GOSH we should all treat the "newbie" with open arms. Guess you just busted your won self on that one.

I think we DO understand you just fine.

[MsDemeander]

80. I'm a newbie poster but quite wise to the flow

"Guess you just busted your won self on that one"

Would you mind telling me what the fuck that is supposed to mean? Please with no pile-on baggage this time?

[molly]

84. You must not be supporting any DEM candidate or you

would not avoid the question. So, who is it - Nader or Bush?

[BruinAlum]

23. That's a right-wing hit piece if I ever saw one. Nothing both-sided about

it. So much for your innocent question.

And I have a question. I've been here a month and I don't know who the big-league posters are. How come you know after just joining today?

[MsDemeander]

26. I said the "site" appeared both-sided

Look at the root URL. It isn't the WT, newsmax, fox or any other RW site.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

29. Yeah just like this post bringing up Ted Kennedy in a current DUI case

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=382301#382693

Sure...I believe you

[MsDemeander]

35. Someone asked who the senator was that killed someone driving

Are you going to attack me for answering their question now? Why are you attacking me for stating facts?

[sangh0]

38. It's not smart to lie when the link proves you wrong

All anyone has to do is to click on the link, and see that your post bringing up Kennedy was in response to the initial post which did NOT "ask who the senator was that killed someone driving"

[MsDemeander]

55. Click on this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x382301#382360

Get it now?

[sangh0]

32. How did you "Check this one out"?

You said you checked this one out, but you still didn't catch the lie it contained. So how exactly did you check it out?

[MsDemeander]

36. See above

N/T

[mitchum]

51. Sockpuppet?

Kerry 2004

[MsDemeander]

72. And the pile-on is in full swing

Democracy 2004

[remfan]

108. I'd check the Opinion page more closely next time

any publication that carries "exclusive" columns by Paul Weyrich should set off alarms.

Thanks for the post though. You've helped to confirm that the 'something' I thought was happening is indeed happening.

[cindyw]

2. Bush should listen to your mother than. He is the worst.

Kerry has not complained about Vietnam being brought up in this election. He has complained about surrogates for Bush saying that he is a hanoi jane Vietnam protester. There is a difference. Simple enough. Like saying you don't shy away from a discussion on patriotism, but complaining about being called a pinko communist. Get it?

[Bombtrack]

3. On a related topic, Kerry constantly reverting the subject too Vietnam

will become a joke and backfire really quick. He never lets up. Quite often he can try to justify every argument with or use to inhance his argment because of, Vietnam. I'm not a big Lieberman guy or anything, but it was just shameful what he did in one debate where Lieberman was talking about Kerry being inconsistant on the war(something you can agree or disagree about) and Kerry just said something to the effect of "Well, I've done something you haven't done Joe, and that's serve in a war"

That is just so low. Everyone that ever reads a newspaper and or watches the news knows that Kerry is a war hero. And the perception that he just tries to milk it for all it's worse is really going to turn alot of people off

[trumad]

5. Nah..just turn off Partisan hacks,,,

[sangh0]

6. Kerry, Kerry, Kerry

enjoy your stay

[MsDemeander]

7. Dean, Dean, Dean

Enjoy your assumptions and finger-pointing.

[molly]

8. Who is CK Rairden and what rock did he slither out from under

serious question.

[WiseMen]

10. FLOOD-GATE OF ANTI-KERRY SLIME IS OPEN!

[MsDemeander]

12. Facts are not slime

Revisionism and lying are slime. I want the truth and I can handle it.

[molly]

14. OK then, who are you supporting?

[MsDemeander]

18. I had planned to vote ABB

Right now I looking for facts and answers. Kerry saying he does not support Gay Marriage is not helping my goals. I want honesty.

[molly]

20. Who have you supported up until now?

I want honesty too. BTW, in case you haven't noticed none of the major candidates are supporting gay marriage - at this time. It should not be an election issue.

So, tell us about yourself.

[MsDemeander]

39. As soon as I cool off I will

Right now I'm livid that I have been called a rush lover, right winger, freeper, liar and god know what I have not read yet.

I want facts, truth and honesty...not BS knee-jerk accusations.

[molly]

47. We are a brutal honest truthful bunch

who are you supporting?

[sangh0]

48. Then stop lying

You said:

1) Kerry is complaining about Bush* using VietNam in the campaign --Not true. I refuted this phony charge, but you haven't responded

2) Someone asked you about the Senator who killed someone driving - Also a lie as anyone can see by clicking on the link nsma posted.

[maddezmom]

53. you were called these things in this thread?

haven't read that yet either, I'll have to check all the posts.

[maddezmom]

63. no one has called you a " rush lover, right winger, freeper"

up til this point. I think you need to have that drink and get back to us.

[MsDemeander]

74. Best you be checking some other threads then

I'll have that drink and you go read and get back to me.

[maddezmom]

77. nah, that's okay

but you go ahead and have that drink. :)

[MsDemeander]

83. Bottoms up

Thanks for the one of about three replys with a sense of humour and warmness. :-)

[Crunchy Frog]

111. If you've been lurking on here

nearly as long as you say you have, then you surely must know what types of posting behaviors are likely to bring about these suspicions and accusations.

I only lurked for a fraction of the time you say you have, yet I was very aware of what the proper ettiqette was for a new poster. Coming in with a handful of posts after being here a couple of days, and behaving in this sort of provocative manner is absolutely guaranteed to set off peoples alarm bells.

I'm really surprised that you havn't learned that in your years of lurking.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

15. It was an editorial

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

24. What the fuck?

out of left field :shrug:

[BruinAlum]

27. LOL! Care to splain that to us who aren't in on this, big-league poster?

;-)

[molly]

30. Who are you supporting?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

33. It's a four letter name

but she says it's Dean

[molly]

37. And she just arrived here?

[maddezmom]

41. yes, just yesterday

:eyes:

[MsDemeander]

86. And when was your "yesterday"

Do all your problems seem "so far away" now that you're a member of the pile-on welcoming committe?

[MsDemeander]

85. And you didn't "just arrive here" as some point in the past?

Perhaps you should host a FAQ of how to "just arrive here" according to "molly". It would save a lot of the problems with people being themselves in this public forum.

[molly]

88. I just arrived here over 2 years ago - or was it 3?

anyway - we don't always agree, but there are some things NONE of us tolerate. We've personally met other DU'ers and so we think of ourselves as family - or fighting siblings.

[BruinAlum]

42. I do NOT support Dean!

And I didn't arrive just today either!

[molly]

44. Well then - who do you support?

[BruinAlum]

54. *sigh* see post #50

[maddezmom]

64. BruinAlum is a Kerry supporter :)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

46. Oops thought she directed that at the threadstarter not you!

My bad :spank:

[molly]

49. That's OK - it's nice to know where people stand

[BruinAlum]

60. ATTN MOLLY: HOLD EVERYTHING!!

I've NEVER been a Dean supporter.

I didn't just arrive today.

I support Kerry - and have since before I joined DU about a month ago.

This thread got mixed up.

I didn't start this thread.

I am not the one pushing the Kerry hit-piece.

That will be all.

:D

[molly]

62. I'll say it again - THANKYOU!

[BruinAlum]

69. LOL! Sorry - just didn't want that ugly rumor to continue. ;-)

:hi:

[MsDemeander]

87. Trust me...I understand the confusion

It's like when sharks are feeding they often bite the wrong meal. Know what I mean?

[BruinAlum]

50. I've been a Kerry supporter since before I joined DU

I think something got mixed up in this thread. I'm not the one pushing the Kerry hit-piece.

[molly]

57. ThankYou!

[MsDemeander]

75. Looking at the string of attacks below here I'll just take the pile-on

Let me know when you all are done with the pile-on and we'll talk.

[molly]

78. Let us know who you are supporting and we'll play nice

[MsDemeander]

89. At least you admit to "playing mean"

That's a start. I first supported Dean and before that I supported Carter, Mondale and Clinton. Now I am asking questions and getting beat up. Don't worry though...I know I'm a liberal and will adhere to those values even while you guys have your fun. I can take it but I would prefer debate to dogshit accusations about being a right winger and rush lover.

[molly]

91. OK - so you were a Dean supporter - that's a start

if you don't want to debate "dogshit accustations", don't start dogshit threads.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

93. The only dogshit accusation was the one you started this thread with

[blm]

19. Because BushInc was USING Vietnam to question Kerry's patriotism.

What I don't understand is why a Democrat would NOT be able to see that difference for themself.

[DrFunkenstein]

22. Kerry Talks About America, So Fair Game To Call Him Un-American

Could you use a little more, you know, specificity?

[MsDemeander]

43. Right now I could use a drink

I'm spending more time explaining myself than having a two-sided honest discussion.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

52. You never intended a two sided honest discussion

That much is obvious by the manner in which you framed your opening post.

[MsDemeander]

92. I hope you are not in the human services line of work

Your hunches and gang mentality manner of attacking me with bullshit accusations could really damage those with less than solid confidence in themselves. Your name calling and wrong assumptions of me may raise my BP but this too will pass.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

112. I haven't called you anything on this thread

I pointed out the fact that you asked a question that was more of a statement than a question in the opening post. I pointed out other answers you gave elsewhere that I found curious. I pointed out that you are behaving on this thread as though you have a history here, which you deny, so gosh, I must take you at your word.

I pointed out that the source of your question was a right wing hit piece editorial that waxes Saxby Chambliss's ass ( a chickenhawk) while criticizing Kerry.

All of that might invoke a name to be called, but I haven't called you anything.

[molly]

61. You asked for it

[MsDemeander]

94. Please sir may I have another?

"You asked for it" reminds me of grade school playground tactics. How were you at dodge ball? I sucked and had bruises for weeks.

[molly]

98. Grade school playground tactics are on you

[sandnsea]

28. The politics of Vietnam

Which is very different than the fact of actual military service. Bush can't debate that either, but who's counting how many issues Bush can't debate.

[Mick Knox]

40. Who cares...

its old school politics.. and everyone knows this will be a dirty campaign... I say enjoy it! Kerry is properly playing the game.. and thats why he is going to win the primary and then the WH! He knows what to do..

[MsDemeander]

58. I don't agree

I think Mister Electable is going to blow it. But all I'm getting is attacked here by some real hateful and defensive long-time members.

I can't sell what they won't buy.

[molly]

59. What are you selling?

[MsDemeander]

95. Myself

Isn't that what this Inquisition is all about?

[Mick Knox]

65. Maybe just explain

Why a one Vietnam Vet Democrat and one Vietnam Vet POW Republican would turn away from Vietnam POW's? It just doesnt sound reasonable.. but perhaps enlighten me how that could possibly happen.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

66. Yeah we love you and your right wing Chambliss ass licking article

What a crock!

[MsDemeander]

96. "My" article?

I didn't write it. Crock indeed.

[BruinAlum]

67. I'm asking you again. If you just joined today, how do you know who the

long time members are??? I've been here a month and I don't know who the long-time members are or the big-league posters are? Why do you keep saying things like that?? :shrug:

[MsDemeander]

97. I have lurked here even before WIll Pitt came along

Ask me anything :-)

[molly]

99. Why lurk - why not join in?

what took you so long? Nader, is that you?

[bobthedrummer]

105. I started the thread about the arrest of the WI Attorney General for DUI

that some posters have called you on.

Why did you drop Ted Kennedy into that thread as the question you were allegedly responding to had already been answered {Janklow}???

ABB.

BTW, welcome to DU, enjoy your stay at this great American political website!

Bob

[Mick Knox]

106. I asked.. you didnt answer.. I'll repost here

Why one Vietnam Vet Democrat and one Vietnam Vet POW Repuke would turn away from Vietnam POW's? It just doesnt sound reasonable.. but perhaps enlighten me how that could possibly happen. I want to know how you reason out 2 people who by any stretch of logic would be the biggest advocates are some how in the wrong...

[maddezmom]

68. Who are you trying to sell? nt

[mitchum]

70. "I can't sell what they won't buy"...

finally, we agree about something!
And notice how I refrained from asserting that Dean supporters should be quite experienced in that area? That's me, Mr Nice Guy.

[Hav]

90. I don't understand..

I don't really understand the problem with that article,was fine by me.
After a few drinks it really looked fair to both sides.Ok a bit more than a few drinks but...

Both-sided? 2 sides like in Bush and Rove??

Sorry if your interest is honest but when you bring something like this up you don't have to wonder that there will be supporters of that specific candidate to defend him.Especially with such an article.

[molly]

100. Try this - we all support our troops - we don't necessarily

support the war - get my drift?

[Hav]

101. I think you need a few drínks and..

then another few drinks and you will realise the article is fine - get my drift? :)

[molly]

102. Yes, well I'm on anti-biotics for a serious respiratory

infection. I would love a good scotch right about now.

[tobius]

103. you're not the first to bring this up

“Before he became a political candidate for president, John Kerry clearly believed that military service should not be used for political gain,” said Jay Carson, a spokesman for Dean, the former governor of Vermont who is running well ahead of Kerry in recent New Hampshire polls.

“And he was right about that,” Carson added. “Unfortunately, now John Kerry and his campaign have a strategy to use that record to further his political career.”

On numerous occasions this year, Kerry cited his distinguished war record as a decisive factor in who should be the nominee. As a naval officer, Kerry earned the Silver Star, the Bronze Star with combat V, and three Purple Hearts for his service on a gunboat patrolling the Mekong.
http://www.thehill.com/news/101503/kerry.aspx

Kerry has never been shy about discussing Vietnam. Both his combat there and his antiwar activities at home have been stump fodder through much of his three-decade public life. Some critics -- even some fans -- have accused Kerry of over-invoking Vietnam, to a point where perhaps he's diminished some of its luster.
At a debate in South Carolina last spring, Howard Dean questioned an aspect of Kerry's support for gay rights -- a small criticism in the grand scheme of things -- to which Kerry responded with an impassioned discussion of his Vietnam service. "I don't need any lectures in courage from Howard Dean," Kerry said http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24384-2004Feb8.html

[molly]

104. Dean attacked Kerry for everything - even a Philly Cheessteak

"Jay Carson, a spokesman for Dean, the former governor of Vermont who is running well ahead of Kerry in recent New Hampshire polls."

Guess it didn't work too well! :shrug:

[tobius]

107. Dean wasn't alone! (:

4 — Best photo flop: John Kerry failing the Philly cheesesteak test. Philadelphia Daily News: “We may have just witnessed the unraveling of the Democratic front-runner's campaign for the White House right here in South Philadelphia, at 9th and Wharton. Let it be recorded: At lunchtime on Aug. 11, 2003, under the familiar awning of Pat's King of Steaks, Sen. John Kerry attempted to eat a cheesesteak. … Kerry, you may have heard, failed miserably. He ordered a cheesesteak with Swiss cheese.” http://www.msnbc.com/avantgo/1001074.asp?s=NEWS

Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts managed to slip his foot in his mouth while ordering and eating a classic Philadelphia Cheesesteak. The presidential candidate, who promotes his "JFK" initials, his record as a decorated Vietnam combat veteran and his Harley-Davidson motorcycle, missed a campaigning basic -- don't get ahead of the locals on what they know best. Craig LaBan, food critic for the Philadelphia Inquirer, said the basic of a Philadelphia Cheesesteak is Cheez Whiz, sometimes American cheese or provolone cheese. Do not order the sandwich, as Kerry did, with Swiss cheese. "In Philadelphia, that's an alternative lifestyle," LaBan said. And once they hand you the sandwich with the right ingredients, Sen. Kerry, roll up your French cuffs and tear into it -- no dainty bites in front of those cameras. http://www.gazetteonline.com/iowacaucus/notes/notes27.aspx