PREDICTION: If Dems lose in November, Dean will be blamed

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

Dean's been out of the race for almost a week now and I'm still seeing negative stuff about him here every day.

I thought that since he dropped out when he said he was going to, and especially since he made a statement condemning Nader's run (which he didn't have to make at all, but he did it for the good of the party), that some of the negativity against him would finally dissipate. Silly me.

While it's nowhere near the levels it was at when he was on top of the polls, I'm surprised by the fact that some people here still feel the need to disparage him and his supporters. Hopefully, this will peter out soon, but I wouldn't count on it. Everybody loves a good scapegoat -- just look at the Republicans pathological need to blame Bill Clinton for everything. I don't see any reason why it should be any different around here, and if (whoever) loses this fall, I can already see the posts saying that so-and-so lost because in the primaries, Dean said such-and-such about them, was doing Karl Rove's work for him, and so forth.

You heard it here first.

[JHBowden]

1. Nobody is going to do that.

Dean isn't the nominee. However, if Dean supporters want to pimp for Nader, I *will* let you hear about it, because that will hurt us in close states.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. if dems loose

we will have far bigger worries than deing being blamed for it...really! when gore lost i was incoherent for a week...this time i fear i may not be able to stand it...i will move back to my home...

[BeyondGeography]

3. Stop the endless martyrization of Dean

This is getting more absurdo-mundo every day.

[West Coast Democrat]

30. I second that!

Unless Dean ran as some sort of a third-party candidate, or urged his supporters not the vote for the Democratic nominee, no one would blame Dean for anything.

In my opinion, Dean is already getting enough positive credit as it is, for "empowering Democrats," etc. Probably more than he actually deserves.

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. They'll blame Nader and/or the Greens

Even if the Repubs actually stood up and said "YES, we electronically stuffed the ballot boxes" all your hear from the DLC is "grumble grumble Nader grumble grumble Greens grumble grumble owes us their votes grumble grumble grumble"

[EXE619K]

5. If the Dems win in November...

Dean will still be blamed.

Democrats always need a scapegoat....kinda like how Nader is being villified, even before the primaries are over.

[JHBowden]

8. Dean will not take votes away from the nominee.

Nader very well could.

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. A lot of threats of Dean write-ins though

If they come to pass, then yes, Dean will get hung out to dry with Nader.

[Eloriel]

33. Dean has no control over how people vote -- he can SUGGEST

how his supporters ought to vote, bbut he can't hold a gun to our heads.

But rest easy. When you stop to consider the write-in votes you also need to consider what states are represented. Not all write-in votes are created equal in that regard. Further, you've only seen a very small handful of "threats." (Mine isn't a threat, btw, it's a promise.) Besides, as DU's most prominent member likes to remind us, DU is not America.

[sangh0]

40. Obviously - They voted for Kerry!!

If Dean had any sort of influence, nevermind control, he would have gotten more votes. Who knows? Maybe he would have even won a primary

Stranger things have happened

[zoeyfong]

73. Right, cuz after all it is party X's fault if people don't vote democrat,

It's certainly not the democratic party's fault.

[EXE619K]

14. Well...

How about non-Dems, that for the first time supported a Dem candidate because of Dean?

How about all those Greens and Indys that supported the Dems, only because of the Dean candidacy?

How can you blame them? Because they wouldn't have voted for a Dem if it wasn't for Dean.

Have you ever been to a Dean Meet-Up?

[DoNotRefill]

72. But Dean's supporters will still be blamed...

either for not going to the polls, or for voting third party, or simply for not sitting down, shutting up, and obeying like some people here want them to do.

Hell, even if Kerry WINS, Dean and his supporters will STILL be blamed, since they kept it from being a landslide.

Sometimes the only winning move is not to play.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

6. ?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x393417

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

23. I don't know if you caught it or not

but the person who posted that has a different name than I do. If you have a problem with something he/she said, take it up with them, not me.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

26. As you did?

Dean's been out of the race for almost a week now and I'm still seeing negative stuff about him here every day.

My point is his loss gets shoved up our ass everyday as though everybody but him is responsible for it.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

41. And

his loss gets shoved up our asses every day as though he's still actively campaigning.

[Melodybe]

7. If we get a fair election, there is no way that the repugs will win

We out number them, if voting had not stopped in Florida and had thousands been allowed to vote, Gore would have won by thousands. If progressives in swing states had not voted Nader Gore would have won. We are in majority and I'll be damned if we aren't voting together in November.

Dean won't be blamed, he is doing his duty as a good American citizen and long after this vile adminsitration is nothing more than a bad memory we will be championing Dean. Dea

[mitchum]

9. Not by me

I am not a Dean supporter, but I respect him as a loyal Democrat. Nothing Dean said in the primaries was "doing Karl Rove's work", that's just primary politics.

ABB

[sangh0]

10. That sounds like a plan!!

Thanks

:evilgrin:

[ChiefJoseph]

12. Don't worry, we're not going to lose.

[goodhue]

13. don't think so

blame will fall on candidate

[BL_Zebub]

15. The "buyer's remorse" is already kicking in.

People who bought the "Kerry is electable" LIE and voted based on that, rather than who they thought was the best candidate, are now realizing they fucked up and that Lurch is just as vulnerable as any of the others in the race. Meanwhile Kamp Kerry is paranoid about big bad Ralphie :eyes:

Bottom line, if your candidate was worth a shit in the first place, you would have nothing to worry about. The next 8 months are going to be long and torturous for you guys. And the Devil knows toruture :evilgrin:

[JHBowden]

20. Kerry is electable.

But not if liberals decide to commit suicide for no reason. That's not part of the plan.

[Eloriel]

29. And what's really funny -- or not, as the case may be

is that from what I've seen of the Repug attack plan on Kerry, all they have to do is tell the truth. They don't even need to go to the trouble of some big, bad spin. That line in Bush's speech was priceless. And right on target.

As for Buyers' Remorse -- you ain't seen nothin' yet. And Terry McAwful will rue the day he ever conceived of such a squished timetable for this severely frontloaded primary.

[sangh0]

46. "all they have to do is tell the truth"

And you think that will be easy for them?

[IndianaGreen]

59. "Terry McAwful"?

And Terry McAwful will rue the day he ever conceived of such a squished timetable for this severely frontloaded primary.

That's good, Eloriel! You are also right about the disastrous attempt to skew the process to favor an establishment candidate by front loading the primaries.

:thumbsup:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

61. This is the hilarious thing. Dean supporters now claiming Bush is truthful

Here's a taste of the truth. Dean lost because not very many people voted for him.

[zoeyfong]

74. Hey, if Hitler says the sky is blue, i'm not going to disagree with him.

Yeah, you're right, more people voted for kerry, thinking that lots of other people would vote for him in november, not thinking that they liked him best. I mean even kerry supporters admit that his alleged 'electability' is his primary asset. That's fine, but some of us believe that character and issues matter as much as who the media says is electable. Just because the captain of the football team gets the most votes for class president doesn't necessarily mean he's the best person for the job. Please at least admit that 'electability' does not equal suitability and capabilty to do the job.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. A far more likely scenario is that the guy that couldn't win a single

primary race will be held out as the messiah that could have saved us should we lose in November and it will be shoved up our ass til hell freezes. Oh I know...Republicans would have broken ranks and voted for him in droves even if Democrats didn't vote for him...of course us REAL PNAC enablers would have voted for ST. Howard because he is the REAL democrat and we are just sheeple unprincipled voters anyway.

[XanaDUer]

18. Yup, that is the scenario I think will happen IF

the nominee loses. I don't think he will lose, however.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

43. I've noticed in a couple

of your posts on this thread, you have a narrow fixation on things being shoved up your ass.

I'm just sayin'.

[sangh0]

52. You say that

as if it's a bad thing

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

55. What you don't know

is that I'm bending over as I type.

[dave29]

54. I didn't want to say it

but I'm glad someone else noticed.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

60. ONLY HOWARD DEAN CAN SAVE AMERICA!!!

EVERYONE ELSE IS A SHEEPLE THAT BOUGHT THE ELECTABLE MEME.
THEY ARE THE PUPPETS OF THE EVIL CORPORATEERS.
ONLY HOWARD DEAN WHO COULDN'T WIN A SINGLE MOTHERFUCKING STATE OUT OF 19 HAS CROSSOVER APPEAL.
ONLY HOWARD DEAN CAN KEEP RALPH FROM RUNNING.
HOWARD DEAN KILLS PAINFUL RECTAL CRAMPS AND HELPS HEAL THE HEARTBREAK OF PSORIASIS.
ONLY HOWARD DEAN CAN KEEP YOUR BATHROOM BOWL CLEAN.

I've seen more honest predictions of who will win Survivor....Howard was the weakest fucking link. He fucking proved it. He lost.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

62. Once again, I never said any of those things

I DARE YOU to find a single instance, ever, when I said any of those things. I'll send you $100 in cash if you find one. Really.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

66. I never said you said it. Go back and read the responses by your

comrades on this thread.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

68. You responded to my post

Hence it seemed like you were saying it to me.

My apologies.

That bet's still on though, if you're interested.

[dave29]

63. jeebs

it's time for more medication

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

67. *sniff* The prescription expired

[MurikanDemocrat]

71. LOL! Where do you find this shit!

:D

I'm stealing this!

[XanaDUer]

69. How dare you say that...

Jesus Fucking Christ...after the months of total shit the rest of us were subjected to by SOME, not all, SOME (but a significant proportion of Dean's supporters), NSMA has a total right to be sick and tired of this crap.

Oh, and Howard Dean also removes ring around the collar.

:eyes:

[Nicholas_J]

70. Only Howard Dean...

Can prevent forest fires!

[zoeyfong]

75. Well, only Howard got kerry to figure out that bush wasn't a good prez.

[zulchzulu]

17. It depends on what happens with Dean between now and then

I doubt Dean would be blamed. Nader might be. But if Dean goes on the media and says that Kerry would not be a good president, etc., he could be at least seen as not being a "team player".

If anything, the lack of Dean to win any state and not do that well in the primaries pretty much puts him in a marginal position.

[MsDemeander]

19. It's Dean's fault because he didn't drop out sooner

and hand his extra cash to Mister Electable and war hero. If not Dean then Nader will be blamed.

[Snivi Yllom]

21. anyone but the candidate

will be blamed.

[JailForBush]

22. One thing's for certain...

the Democrats will scapegoat someone, rather than take responsibility for their own problems.

[Demobrat]

24. Who cares?

If Kerry's so electable and all, he should be able to win without Dean's supporters.

[mitchum]

28. Y'know, you may have a point...

since Dean wasn't able to win WITH those supporters
maybe Kerry can win WITHOUT those supporters
maybe they are a jinx...

petulance, meet scorn

ABB

[GreenArrow]

25. nah ...

Nader will be blamed, but the real culprit will really be Black Box Voting. Bush and Co. will rig things so that it appears that Bush once again escapes with a victory by a narrow margin in a state with a substantial number of Nader voters, lets say Ohio.

The reality will be that Democrats actually win by six or seven percentage points, but by making it appear that Nader has once again cost the Democratic Party a Presidential election victory, the GOP will be able to faciliate a full split of the American left and consolidate their hold on power.

:tinfoilhat:

Seriously, Kerry is going to win. I'm not a Kerry supporter, but he is going to win.

[slinkerwink]

27. it wouldn't surprise me at all

[DrFunkenstein]

31. Get Over Yourself Already

I know you have the power and all that stuff, but the egotism is getting to be a little much.

[Uzybone]

32. I for one will not blame Dean

he has done his part. Now its left to US.

[LuminousX]

34. Of course he will, He has been the prime mover of this election

[John_H]

35. No one will do that, because it wouldn't be Dean's fault.

[LuminousX]

36. Make sure you bookmark this thread

Better yet, save a copy to your harddrive in case DU loses it for some reason. And then in November and the unthinkable happens you can refer back to it.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

45. I'm way ahead of you

The number of threads I have bookmarked for November 3 is very high.

[BruinAlum]

37. Oh please. Get a grip. Will this pity party EVER end.

:eyes:

[jansu]

38. If you supported Dean, why aren't you doing what he said? Vote 4 Him!

He did not withdraw! He asked us who had joined him and supported him, in his e-mails to us,just last week, to vote for him in the upcoming Primaries! That is what I am going to do! Why, if you support him are you spreading these rumors of his quitting? Stop it and start spreading the word that he is still in the race!

It is about the delegates, at the least! If he gets enough to take to the convention, then we have the power to make a real difference in this country!

Never stop believing! We do have the power! Everyone support your candidates right up until after the decision is made at the Convention! Then, we must go forward, together and defeat Bush, again!

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

47. I am voting for him

Who said I wasn't? Why would I still be using the Dean avatar if I was going to vote for someone else?

Yaaawwwwwnnnnn...

[RetroLounge]

39. That's the typical Kerry argument

Q: Why can't Kerry <fill in blank here>?

A: "Yeah, well, Dean lost."

Get used to it...

[West Coast Democrat]

42. If Dean supporters continue to hold a grudge against Kerry......

and stay home on election day, then you guys can just blame yourselves, not Dean.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

48. Who said we're staying home?

You said that, not me. I've always been ABB.

[sangh0]

50. What do you want, names?

That would be against the rules

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

53. How about just attributing actions

to the appropriate parties?

I don't know which candidate you support, but EVERY candidate has had asshole supporters here, and I have never gotten into the blanket condemnation game, because not every supporter of a given candidate behaves a certain way.

I can't believe people literally need this idea explained to them.

[sangh0]

56. Fair enough

but I bet you can't find one Kerry, Kucinich, Sharpton, Lieberman or CMB supporter who has declared they won't vote for the eventual Dem nominee if it isn't their preferred candidate

[West Coast Democrat]

51. Don't pretend you haven't noticed the reluctance of Dean supporters

to vote for Kerry in November!!!

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

58. It's SOME supporters

Is it OK to condemn a whole group of people for the actions of some of them?

I usually assume most people here are going to be ABB by November no matter who they supported anyway --- it's a long ways off.

[BruinAlum]

44. PREDICTION: If Kerry wins in November, Dean will get the credit from Dean

supporters.

You heard it here first.

[fishnfla]

49. When Bush loses, it'll be Deans fault too

Mark my words, bookmark this thread, hightlight this post, tatoo it on your forehead:

After shrub gets beat, EVERY pundit will point to and mention the kickoff and the "kick start" that Dean gave the Democratic party. He will be credited.

take it to the bank

[dave29]

57. If Kerry wins in November

it will be because of Kerry

if Kerry loses in November, it will be because of Kerry.

'nuff said.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

65. Sorry we are not programmed to receive

If Kerry wins in November it will be because he stole Howard Dean's winning formula.
IF Kerry loses in November it was because only Howard Dean could have won.
If Kerry wins in November it will be because he stole Howard Dean's winning formula.
IF Kerry loses in November it was because only Howard Dean could have won
If Kerry wins in November it will be because he stole Howard Dean's winning formula.
IF Kerry loses in November it was because only Howard Dean could have won
If Kerry wins in November it will be because he stole Howard Dean's winning formula.
IF Kerry loses in November it was because only Howard Dean could have won
If Kerry wins in November it will be because he stole Howard Dean's winning formula.
IF Kerry loses in November it was because only Howard Dean could have won

The STEPFORD SCHOOL of electoral politics approves of this message.

[West Coast Democrat]

64. I hope Dean supporters will ALSO work to help the Democratic....

nominee get elected. We ALL need to work together. And I don't like to hear and see a lot of bitterness in the Party....we're trying to convince others to get out and vote for our guy. If Dean supporters go around telling everyone they know that Kerry sucks and they don't really want to vote for him, how is that going to help convince fence-sitters to vote for the Democratic candidate?