Will Kerry or Edwards be easier to paint as inconsistant or a fencesitter?

[Bombtrack]

It is an important political issue in a general election if the people believe that a candidate is not too obviously political, or someone who always tries to have it both ways.

Please don't let this thread turn into a "they both suck" or one of them sucks. Please be respectful in your critisms of both candidates, and stay on topic. This isn't a thread about trade or foriegn policy or taxes or gay marriage. It's about(that dreaded word) electability and this particular aspect that contributes to it. You're prediction about the public perception, not your own bias towards one of them.

The basic question is, who will be easier for the GOP to convince the most people of incosistency and/or being a fencesitter?

[blm]

1. Painting black and white is for dummies and dittomonkeys, not Democrats.

Democrats are smarter and hope for leaders who can be nuanced and clear headed.

Kerry can fight every charge they throw at him on this, and so can Edwards.

Fear is just irresponsible and unnecessary.

[sadiesworld]

2. Exactly.

I believe most Americans are ready for a President who doesn't hold to *'s "don't bother me with the facts" ideological rigidity. In fact, this is probably how the dem nominee should counter the argument--toss it back with a spin.

[ModerateMiddle]

3. there is a substantive difference

on rules (laws) and how they are implemented. We can see that here on DU. I don't think that Kerry's positions on these things will be a major issue. This election, as most when there is an incumbant running for re-election, will be all about Bush and whether folks believe he deserves a second term.

Besides, on the issues that have been talked about here (NAFTA, the Patriot Act, the IWR, NCLB) Edwards and Kerry voted the same. Well, except NAFTA, but Edwards' objections pre-2004 were pretty tame.

[bigtree]

4. This is a backwards approach

We should focus on Bush's weaknesses and ignore the obfuscations and diversions.

[katieforeman]

5. There are some things that really worry me about Kerrry's record.

I will vote for and work for Kerry if he is the nominee. I have nothing against him personally, but I'm really worried Republicans will be successful with painting Kerry as a panderer instead of a leader. Both because of his long record and because he is not as good at articulating a coherent vision for the country.

On his record:
-Kerry was against the death penalty for terrorists in the 1980's. Now he's for it.

-Kerry was against first Gulf War and for Iraq War. He gave inconsistent reasons for these votes.

-in 1997, he proposed, voted for and is on the record advocating cuts in intelligence. After Sept. 11th, he blamed lack of intelligence.

On vision:
Kerry and Edwards both have some very good policy proposals. However, Edwards policies all fit within his positive, optimistic vision of One America. If Americans know what you're for, they're less likely to to perceive you as a flip-flopper.

On style:
Edwards connects with people and knows how to win their trust. The fact that people instinctively like Edwards means they are more likely to believe him. Furthermore, it is much harder to attack someone with an upbeat style.

Kerry's "bring em on" stance invites these kind of attacks. Furthermore, by focusing on his Vietnam record as his main selling point- he is re-engaging in battles of the past. Republicans will win a slugfest based on attacks- they're meaner. The best way to defeat Republican attacks is to stay positive.

[blm]

6. Do you really understand any of those votes you are bringing up?

Kerry was against the extra intelligence money that was going into HARDWARE, like spy gadgets that could be used domestically. He wanted the money instead to go to HUMAN INTELLIGENCE efforts on the ground - EXACTLY what was needed to prevent 9-11. Kerry will wipe the floor with Bush on this issue.

BIG difference in terrorist activities from the 80s and 2001. ANY voter can acknowledge that.

YOU perceive Kerry as a flip-flopper because you WANT to, but, not based on the facts.

[Zookeeper]

10. The problem is...

most normal people (not us political junkies), barely know who all the candidates are, much less taking the time to dissect a long record of votes in the Senate.

Edwards speaks in a direct, clear manner that appeals to people and when the Karl Rove smear-machine gears up, JRE will have a lot less "'splainin'" to do.

[blm]

11. If he understood the isues over the decades half as well as Kerry

I would have no problem with him. But he doesn't. He had a problem explaining DOMA during a debate, even.

Another problem is that those here who CLAIM to understand these issues, seem to be purposely misrepresenting Kerry's votes for their own agenda, not even caring if they employ the same line of attacks as BushInc.

Sorry, but my longtime Edwards supporting friends here don't stoop to that. I don't trust some of the newer ones.

[Zookeeper]

12. I'm not sure if you mean me...

I am a long-time Edwards supporter, but I am new to DU (actually, new to this whole Internet forum, blog thing). I'm getting involved for the first time in years, because my kids are more self-sufficient than they were during the last election, because I'm even more desperate than in 2000 to see Dubya kicked to the curb and, finally, because I'm convinced that Edwards is the one who can do it.

I will support Kerry if he wins the nomination, but I don't feel as confident about his ability to win the election as I do Edwards.

What Edwards doesn't know now, I'm sure he can learn. And he certainly doesn't know any less than Bushie.

I've heard from a number of Independents in my neighborhood that they would vote for Edwards, but probably wouldn't vote for Kerry. I don't know why, I'm just the messenger.

[katieforeman]

16. Do you really understand how the Republicans work?

[blm]

20. Yes. Does that excuse what YOU are doing when you misrepresent

the votes?

You FIGHT the lie, you don't PERPETUATE it.

I don't let the Republicans define Edwards for me, and never did. I think Edwards is great about many things, but, with his stellar resume and liberal record and positions in the race, I choose Kerry first.

Would it be proper for me to buy into the Republican tripe that Edwards is a slick trial lawyer out to fleece his victims? NO. I'll defend that BS any day of the week.

[katieforeman]

21. I'm not misrepresenting. This is streight form the NYTimes.

[blm]

22. You chose to repeat it instead of refute it with the facts.

.

[katieforeman]

23. Please specify may factual error.

You only gave me Kerry's explanation or spin. Originally, you did not say my facts were wrong beacuse they weren't.

Kerry did propose advocate and vote for cuts in intelligence spendin in 1997. True or false. You can expalain why but that doesn't make it not true.

Kerry was against the death penalty for terrorists who killed Americans over seas in the 1980s. Now he supports the death penalty.
True or False.

Kerry voted against the first Gulf War Resolution because he thought a vote for the resolution would allow Bush 1 to move forward on war without exhausting all diplomatic efforts. Kerry voted for the Second Iraq war authorization and then complained that the Bush 2 didn't exhaust all other options before going to war. True or False.

You can explain why Kerry did these things, but you shouldn't say that my facts are wrong.

[blm]

24. If you are using Republican spin of the "facts"

while calling Kerry's explanation "spin" that should clue you in for starters.

You want to paint the guy who wrote a book on terrorism and its funding in 97, someone who doesn't get the importance of intelligence gathering? Or is Kerry's book, The New War (1997) just "spin" to you, too?

[katieforeman]

26. Bush will use Republican spin of the facts! and he'll have a lot of money

to push that spin.

We were talking about perception in the general elction. Don't argue that Kerry is the most electable and then complain about someone pointing out the Republican spin. That's what this post was about- who will the Republicans have an easier time painting as a waffler?

Again, I'm just questioning the conventional wisdom that Kerry is the most electable.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

9. You are actually misrepresenting Kerry's position on intel

He was against an unfettered budget for an unaccountable agency and was FOR more HUMINT whish is EXACTLY what we were told was missing after 9/11..HUMAN INTELLIGENCE.

[katieforeman]

25. I'm not misrepresenting anything.

True or False- Kerry advocated cutting spending on intelligence in 1997.

There may be perfectly good reasons for what he did. But we were talking about perceptions in the general election. Do you think Bush will put Kerry's long explanations in his commercials? Do you think Bush will misrepresent Kerry's position in the general election?

I like Kerry and will work for him if he is the nominee. I'm just questioning the conventional wisdom that Kerry is the most electable.

[sangh0]

7. Other: Bush*

Bush* is the inconsistent one who is constantly breaking his promises

[salin]

14. The candidate/campaign best equipped (imo)

for rapid response and very smart responses/deflections... Kerry. No question. The volley back per asking why the GOP seems to hold something against those who served in Vietnam... Brilliant.

Teambush has a habit of going on a campaign appearance... making some localized promise/pledge (to some program of interest)... and defunding that same program within a month. Fodder for countering this charge... easier to find than spittle on a baby.

[Cuban_Liberal]

8. Not a poll I'd want to be leading in, Sen. Kerry!

Yet you have the definitve lead in this one, 92-8...

[mitchum]

19. Since it's yet another worthless DU poll...

I really don't think he will be losing sleep

[DrFunkenstein]

13. Daniel-San, Show Me Paint A Fence!

I'm glad you suggest that we ignore all specifics and just focus on whether the GOP will go after Kerry for inconsistency (as opposed to, say, inexperience). I'm sure you were completely unaware that the GOP has been floating this meme for a couple of months now.

[flpoljunkie]

17. It will be far easier for GOP to paint Edward's as a slick trial lawyer

with little, or no experience, in foreign policy. Nice try, AP.

[no name no slogan]

15. What, no "both"? (nt)

[BL_Zebub]

18. Waffles are a regular breakfast item at the Kerry Kafe

Edwards has voted for some of the same reprehensible Bush agenda bullshit that Kerry has. But at least he doesn't try to "nuance" his way around it.