Whoa! Kucinich Urges Supporters to Back Obama on Second Iowa Ballot

[Adelante]

Kucinich Urges Supporters to
Back Obama on Second Iowa Ballot

For Immediate Release - Tuesday, January 01, 2008

DES MOINES, IA - Democratic Presidential candidate and Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich opened the New Year by publicly asking his Iowa supporters to vote for him in the caucuses this Thursday, and suggesting that if he did not make the 15% threshold, their second ballot should be for Senator Barack Obama. "This is obviously an 'Iowa-only' recommendation, as Sen. Obama and I are competing in the New Hampshire primary next Tuesday where I want to be the first choice of New Hampshire voters.

"I hope Iowans will caucus for me as their first choice this Thursday, because of my singular positions on the war, on health care, and trade. This is an opportunity for people to stand up for themselves. But in those caucus locations where my support doesn't reach the necessary threshold, I strongly encourage all of my supporters to make Barack Obama their second choice. Sen. Obama and I have one thing in common: Change."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Kucinich_sorta_endorses_Obama.html

[slick8790]

1. Holy shit!

Pretty unexpected, at least from my point of view.

[Adelante]

4. There was a rumor yesterday or the day before

Looks like it was true.

[elizm]

2. WOW. That's huge, IMO. nt

[Drunken Irishman]

3. Didn't he have them caucus for Edwards in '04?

That was a big hit to the Dean campaign, if I recall.

[sniffa]

18. yes

he's not the lightweight some DUers like to make him out to be.

but then again, they don't have to listen to him.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Radical Activist]

72. Yes. There goes Edwards hopes for finishing first in Iowa.

Its all Obama now.

[leftcoastie]

165. I doubt this

will end Edwards chances. People are only now beginning to pay attention. Frankly I'm surprised at Dennis. Obama is definately more corporate than Edwards. Edwards alone doesn't support nukes and he's calling for a withdrawl from Iraq in 10 months. I'm perplexed...

[Radical Activist]

170. Obama has been speaking more about nuclear non-proliferation

He has brought it up in several debates. Obama also called for a quick withdrawal from Iraq. His last Senate proposal was for a March '08 exit. Obama isn't corporate despite a massive net campaign to paint him as more conservative than he is. I think Dennis sees the real Obama as opposed to the spin about him. Obama is voicing a progressive platform in language that appeals to people from all political backgrounds. That doesn't make him conservative. It makes him a progressive with a chance of winning.

[Capn Sunshine]

5. I was hoping this would be more of a surprise

That was supposed to be ,um, somewhat confidential....

Working on a couple of other campaigns as well...........
Hillary's folks won't return our calls though.

[slick8790]

8. How do you mean?

Aren't caucusees supposed to know who they're supposed to switch to? Are you in with the Obama campaign? Any word on an Obama/Edwards 2nd choice switch i heard being floated somewhere?

[David__77]

6. Wonderful!

If I were in Iowa caucusing, that's how I'd vote - Kucinich, then Obama.

[MuseRider]

7. Must be to

fight someone else because I can't for the life of me imagine he has anything in common with BO.

This Kucitizen would rather go home than back Obama but then I would assume we rarely do as we are told without thinking first for ourselves even if it does come from DK :).

[Adelante]

22. I know you feel that way, MR

I really appreciate a show of confidence by Dennis in Obama, if that's what it is.

Happy New Year :pals:

[MuseRider]

25. To you too!

I hope you have a wonderful year.

It is good that some of us can remain friends throughout this horrible process. I know I am not always the nicest person although I am trying harder this time :).

Whatever it is I trust DK to do what he thinks is best. I may not always agree, oh well.

Good luck to you!

[Adelante]

38. Yep

"Whatever it is I trust DK to do what he thinks is best. I may not always agree, oh well."

Exactly how I feel about Wes's endorsement. I don't have to agree and I don't have to lose my respect for the man when I don't agree."

[MuseRider]

41. For you

old friend, :hug: and good luck.

[alteredstate]

9. kicked

[Bitwit1234]

10. Wow I was right about that asshole from the first.

Hope he loses his seat in Ohio....and I'll donate anything I can to his opponents.

[Joe the Revelator]

12. Hillary supporters and their Sour Grape posts

are hilarious.

[sniffa]

13. you should make this an OP

:thumbsup:

[tammywammy]

24. What an insightful post

You are lacking the use of CAPS though.

Maybe add some CAPS and make this it's own thread. It would really take off.

[sniffa]

30. i really wish he'd listen to our suggestions more

:(

[tammywammy]

36. I'm only trying to help.

Not that GD:P needs more spice, but bitwit can definitely spicy it up.

[hayu_lol]

97. Tammy...

thanks for the Maxine...I love that cartoon.

[Whisp]

47. them's fightin' words, Bitwit.

you don't go calling Kucinich an asshole without some retal from me you caustic little pile.

[zulchzulu]

59. Only a red-faced Hillbot would want to vote against Kucinich with his Ohio seat

Shame... then again, it seems Repug-Lite types go for war hawks like Hillary, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

[earthlover]

74. Kucinich has more integrity as a Democrat in his little finger than you or your candidate

You illustrate the coldness of the Hillary campaign very well. If you don't get your way, you throw people under the bus.

In fact I have always wondered just how far you would go to knock down Obama. Now you even knock down Mr K.

[cyclezealot]

93. Probably because O'Bama did his homework and was

paired against Bush's Iraq war vote. Unlike Edwards. Kucinich supporters are particular and think it wise members of Congress be critical thinkers instead of wafting according to which way the wind is blowing. Still, we were Iowa voters we'd only cast one ballot. Vote Kucinich and then we would go home. No second choice, thank you.

[Laurab]

124. I'll be his opponent AND I have a paypal account.

I mean, I won't run against him or anything, but you can donate to me, and I'll oppose him from the sidelines, quietly. Just say the word...

[surfermaw]

129. Sounds like a Ralph N...doesn't he?

[Capn Sunshine]

139. That's the spirit!

That's what Hillary's supporters are all about. Venal and defeatist. Thanks for paining the perfect picture.

Like I said, we don't expect much help from them in the General. If anything they will be working for a Dem loss unless Hillary gets the nom, which is increasingly unlikely.

[karynnj]

143. You seriously did not expect him to send his voters to HRC did you?

[dionysus]

164. you must have had an extra big bowl of toolios for breakfast today.

[antiimperialist]

11. yes! Obama adds 9 voters to his cause! n/t

[Joe the Revelator]

14. When the entire cacus can come down to 1000 votes

This is helpful.

[sniffa]

15. awww

:cry:

[slick8790]

17. I wouldn't knock it so much.

If I remember correctly, I think the Edwards/Kucinich swap in 2004 gave Edwards like +3 points from the entry polls.

[Stop Cornyn]

16. Well, this absolves me of the guilty feeling I had about switching from Kucinich. I'm done with him

now.

[sniffa]

19. awww

:cry:

[antiimperialist]

21. Sour grapers are acting as if Obama is some sort of Dick Cheney

Or Karl Rove or something.

[Ninga]

28. to know Degnnis. .. Is, well, to know him. Not surprised at all

[ecstatic]

35. So, you were still in his corner when he sought out Ron Paul for VP?

Oh well...

[peoli]

20. Sweet, now if Edwards will do the same we'll have it in the bag

[Pirate Smile]

23. Cool - I had some Kucinich people in my caucus in 2004 who did

go over with the Edwards people when they weren't viable (because DK had the deal with Edwards in 2004). It actually did help Edwards. He picked up another delegate because of it. I was with the Dean group and it kind of blew our minds because, at that time, Edwards was actually still quite supportive of the Iraq War.

[LWolf]

40. It was probably because

the Dean campaigners "the only candidate to oppose the war" thing was offensive. Dean and DK were competing for the same voters, as DK and Edwards are this time.

[Desertrose]

26. Hmmm..this is interesting.

And they say Dennis doesn't know how to play the game.

This man is no fool....of course, this is a onetime Iowa deal only.

He has his reasons....I will not mention what I think they are in this thread.

[Drunken Irishman]

31. Oh please do, I would be interesting to hear your take on this.

[Desertrose]

46. See post #44.

Like I said...just my take on things-can't really speak for Dennis.

[JackORoses]

27. first rumors of a deal with Biden, now Kucinich officially

GOBAMA!

[Pirate Smile]

43. Say what? I haven't heard those rumors yet.

[Eurobabe]

29. Interesting development...

[LWolf]

32. I'm a diehard Kucitizen,

but if I were caucusing in Iowa, there is no way I'd move to Obama's camp.

I wonder if he sees Edwards as bigger competition for those who might support him to begin with?

I don't even buy into the "change" factor that they supposedly have in common. I don't see Obama style "change" as positive, as a step forward.

:puke:

[Desertrose]

44. Yeah, LWolf...I know...

I really think this may be his way of ...well, if not "sticking it" to Edwards, then slowing things down.

Secondly, he feels Obama may not be as far ahead as Clinton or Edwards and this is his way of evening things out...

Just my take, cause I don't see DK and BO having much in common.....

:hi: Happy New Year, LWolf :hug:
DR

[LWolf]

50. Happy New Year to you, too, my friend!

:hug:

[Drunken Irishman]

51. Thanks for that. What do you think turned Kooch against Edwards?

I can understand wanting to stick it to Clinton, but he threw his support to Edwards in the '04 caucus, so I'm interested in hearing why he soured on Edwards.

[Desertrose]

68. Just guessing here...

but it was most likely a number of things....

I do see Edwards as trying to claim being way more progressive and populist than he is...in a way trying to make himself more like Kucinich, without it being true or real.

His support for Edwards was just that one time in Iowa and perhaps it wasn't returned when it counted? Don't know.....would like to find out a bit more myself on this.....


Dennis does know how to play the political game, so it will be interesting to see how this all turns out.

[no name no slogan]

112. I'm thinking it has to do with that conversation John & Hil had at the debate

The one that was supposedly "off-mike" about them excluding certain candidates from future debates?

That little moment brought both Edwards and Clinton down quite a bit in my esteem, that's for sure.

[Desertrose]

113. Good point, no name no slogan....

Dennis was pretty pissed at that- with good reason.

Seems like Edwards is standing by those sentiments re: his comment to Faux news in anothe thread here.

Least Obama said everyone should be included in the NH debate.

[GreenArrow]

128. well, DK and Edwards didn't have much in common four years ago

back when Edwards was a centrist war hawk. I'm sure Dennis does feel like Edwards has stolen a lot of his material, for pure expedience, and that can't sit real well.

[sandnsea]

67. Maybe Kucinich knows something you don't

Maybe he shares values like choosing public service, consistency in his record, fighting for housing and jobs, cautiousness over welfare reform, etc.

Do you know Edwards apparently opposed the National Housing Trust???

Maybe you need to stop listening to the red hot rhetoric and start looking at those who walk the talk.

[MuseRider]

75. LOL

She has been looking right at and supporting someone who does walk the talk, she is a diehard Kucitizen or did you miss that part.

[sandnsea]

77. context is everything

Did you miss the point of the thread and the poster's despair over Dennis' choice?

[MuseRider]

85. Despair?

No I did not see any such thing, I only saw someone who said much the same as I did. I see no despair there.

[sandnsea]

91. Concocting crazy scenarios to explain the choice?

That Edwards is worried about competition, which is just laughable. Yeah, I'd call that despair.

[MuseRider]

94. I don't get you

but then I am not certain I ever did. I have no clue what you are talking about.

[sandnsea]

96. Okay, now you're confused

Whatever works. See ya.

[Desertrose]

111. Despair? I think you're reaching on that one..... n/t

[LWolf]

98. I'm sure he knows plenty of things that I don't.

Maybe you ought not to assume, though, where my convictions come from.

Edwards has done many things that I don't approve of.

I also know that many people drawn to DK choose Edwards, hoping that he will walk his currently more progressive "talk" if elected. I'm on the fence on that one.

I'm afraid that Obama WILL walk his talk. Since I don't like his "talk," I would certainly not caucus for him.

There is really nothing any Obama supporter can say or do to reconcile me with his support of merit pay for teachers, his willingness to take unilateral action in Pakistan, his willingness to continue the "war on terror," his hawkish stance hiding behind the "I was against Iraq to begin with" bullshit, in which he demonstrably did NOT walk his talk when it came time to vote on war funding, his willingness to include religion in his politics, his willingness to leave insurance companies "at the table," his gracious reaching out to homophobes....that's all I can fit in one breath, but there is plenty more where that came from, and I don't care WHO thinks differently.

I walk MY talk by not supporting anyone who holds those positions, and I would not caucus for him, and will not throw any support his way.

[sandnsea]

104. *sigh*

You know LWolf, that really and truly is all propaganda bullshit.

You seriously believe Edwards wouldn't deal with terrorism? Or that Kucinich wouldn't if he were President?

You think there's something wrong with paying teachers who work in at risk districts more money?

You think Edwards isn't going to have to deal with insurance companies if he doesn't outlaw them, and he isn't planning that.

You missed the times Dennis referenced religion in his speeches?

You think there is a candidate who doesn't have a supporter with weird ideas?

This is all bogus attack politics and it's sad that so many DUers, who like to portray themselves as sophisticated and savvy, fall for it. Just like they fell for it against John Kerry who has proven to be one of the key fighters to end the war, implement climate change legislation, get SCHIP passed, and a whole host of other progressive issues. I'll say I told you so, a lot of us told you so. And it STILL isn't enough for some of the idiots around here.

[bvar22]

102. I hear you, LWolf.

DK supporter myself.
If I can't have DK, then Edwards is my next logical preference.

But OBAMA.....no way!
Neither OBAMA nor Hillary will EVER get my vote!

Here is why:

[KoKo]

154. Chart tells alot about Corporate support for Obama....

and it's why I can't support him, either. Maybe Kucinich throwing his support to Obama will help Edwards in some way in the caucus by knocking Hillary down to third place. :shrug:

[hedgehog]

160. I think these charts add a lot of heat, but not much light to the process.

For each candidate, how much money came from bundled contributions and how much from people who just happened to work in those industries?

How were donations allocated? Is a doctor a health professional? A nurse? A custodian who works for a hospital?

How many people work in a particular profession? Are there so many people working in pharmaceuticals for example, that donations from them fall along the same distribution as donations from the general public?

Why were these categories selected? What about farmers? Teachers? Engineers?

[Zorra]

157. I'm not getting this either, LWolf.

Other than the vague "change" explanation, I'm not clear on DK's motivations for choosing Obama over Edwards in Iowa.

Right at this moment I'm feeling more "unsure" about this primary than ever before, mostly about what Dennis is not saying here.

[Califooyah Operative]

33. Thank You Dennis! n

[ecstatic]

37. It's hilarious to see so called die hard supporters drop him like a hot cake

They were never truly in his corner, IMO.

[tammywammy]

42. But that's what happens in Iowa

If your candidate can't reach 15% of the people there, then you move to someone else. That's why 2nd choices have been so important. :shrug:

[MuseRider]

45. ???

Are you talking about DK supporters? I don't see any die hard supporters dropping him. We have minds of our own and don't follow his every lead but that is a long way from dropping him.

I think you need to find something truly funny if you find this hilarious. Selecting a candidate is serious business for most of us, especially if we don't consider it a game. I don't think the process is very fucking funny at all.

[Desertrose]

48. No die hard supporters ARE dropping Dennis....

and FYI, if you really want change???

Neither Clinton nor Obama are gonna do it.

[MuseRider]

56. Hey!

In it for the long haul and it is certainly that this year.

Happy New Year! Good to see you. :hug:

[Desertrose]

61. Hey there, MR!

Seems like we are still here,eh?? So glad Dk is running again this year...be nice to have gotten more & better press, but who is not surprised by that.....

Happy New Year to you too!! Let's hope it is better than 2007(and the previous 7) in all the ways that count!!
:grouphug:
DR

[GreenArrow]

130. "Neither Clinton nor Obama are gonna do it."

Neither is Edwards. And since I do want change, I'll vote for Kucinich. If I were in Iowa, I'd go uncommitted if Kucinich. Though if I were going to vote for a top tier candidate, Obama would be the one. I simply can't abide Edwards. Disagree though I may with Clinton and Obama on many issues, they are at least more open and honest with their machinations.

"The Dog and the Thief"

A thief came in the night to break into a house. He brought with him several slices of meat in order to pacify the Housedog, so that he would not alarm his master by barking. As the Thief threw him the pieces of meat, the Dog said, "If you think to stop my mouth, you will be greatly mistaken. This sudden kindness at your hands will only make me more watchful, lest under these unexpected favors to myself, you have some private ends to accomplish for your own benefit, and for my master's injury."

Moral

Fair words, presents, and flatteries are the methods of treachery in courts as well as in cottages; only the dogs are truer to their masters than the men."

Aesop

[Adelante]

55. His diehard supporters won't drop Dennis

People need time to settle in with what he's saying. They may not decide to follow his lead on this, but that doesn't mean he's tossed out. His supporters are extremely loyal.

[earthlover]

87. This is really pissing me off! Kucinich is wonderful.

Too bad he is not viable. It speaks ill of America and the Democratic Party that he is not one of the contenders.

For anyone to say such rubbish about Mr K as i have already seen on this board....it just shows how immature and flatlulent many of the "true believers" of other campaigns can be.

I think Mr K is a great man.

[LWolf]

105. That's hilariously ludicrous.

I'm certainly not "dropping him like a hotcake." Just because I wouldn't caucus for Obama (if I were in Iowa, which I'm not), doesn't mean I've dropped my support of DK.

DK will get my vote in my primary, if he is on the ballot. Obama will not get a vote from me in 2008.

I think that is certainly simple, clear, and plain enough for you to follow.

[info being]

158. We only supported him because he was always right

That was the basis of our support. Now he's dead wrong and it bothers us tremendously.

[mtnsnake]

39. Is there anything official from Kucinich's site or a reliable source, other than politico.com?

[Adelante]

49. I did look for it, but no

However, it's all over Google. The Nation, Atlantic, MSNBC, CBS, etc. etc.

http://news.google.com/news?q=kucinich+obama&sourceid=mozilla2&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wn

[mtnsnake]

60. From all those sites you googled, it looks like lots of media are on it. Must be real

although, who knows...the entire story could be scrapped as a hoax in half an hour.

Anyway, if it's real, it's pretty surprising, to me at least.

I know Kucinich doesn't think Edwards is perfect, but if he were going to choose anyone to donate his support to, I would have guessed Edwards, not Obama.

[Adelante]

66. Obama acknowledged it a few minutes ago - another thread

I knew it wouldn't be Edwards this time. Kucinich has been really pissed off at him.

[mtnsnake]

79. Well, this is big news for sure. Very interesting.

[Melinda]

52. Yes, The Nation has it

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters?bid=45&pid=264482

[Sulawesi]

53. Does this mean Dennis is an unthinking, image conscious, not true progressive Obamabot?

[MuseRider]

57. No

It means he is a politician just like the rest of them.

[Sparkly]

54. This is good for Obama.

I'm not sure how much of it is about Kucinich's political positioning for future primaries (or influencing the race in general) and how much is about true ideological overlap, but I do think it's good for Obama.

[Zynx]

58. I'm glad Kucinich doesn't poll crap in IA.

[bluedog]

62. he doesn't poll worth a crap anywhere!

[Zynx]

64. All 450 of his supporters have me trembling in my boots.

[Fire Walk With Me]

133. Almost half of those who voted in 2000 and 2004 chose BushCo.

They're the ones of whom you should be afraid.

[Sparkly]

63. But it's sort of a mini-endorsement or vote of confidence that could bolster Obama's creds elsewhere

among people who respect Kucinich.

[in_cog_ni_to]

65. Interesting. I would think he'd choose the more Progessive of the 3 front runners.

That's certainly not Obama.

This is just so strange.

[sandnsea]

69. he did n/t

[Radical Activist]

73. He did.

Obama and Kucinich have a very similar record and outlook on the issue. Much more than Clinton or the Johnny-come-liberal lately.

[in_cog_ni_to]

92. But Obama wants to play nice with a bunch of thugs who have no such intentions!

He should know by now that taking a knife to the gun fight doesn't work. That's how we got to where we are today. He'll be playing nice while all the while they're behind closed doors plotting their next evil course of action. When will we ever learn? What will it take to know you cannot be nice to repukes?

[Radical Activist]

103. Who says?

Obama's talk of unity isn't about compromising with corporations. That's spin. There's nothing corporate special interests fear more than an engaged public united to act on their common interests. A unified public is every CEO's worst nightmare.

[in_cog_ni_to]

125. I'm not talking about JUST the corporations. THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE ***TO ME***

is whether or not the next President is going to insist the war criminals, who are now in power in this country, are going to be investigated, indicted, tried and sent to prison for all the murders, illegal wiretapping, lies about reasons for war, the outing of a CIA agent and on and on and on the crimes go........ Obama has no intentions of making these thugs pay for all their crimes. He wants to move on and play nice with people who are NOT about to play "nice" with him.

[cali]

152. Edwards hasn't said one little word indicating that he'd go after bushco

and absolutely NOTHING in the guy's history indicates that he'd do so. Neither will anyone else running except Dennis. Edwards is no different- except to the delusional or obtuse.

[Adelante]

78. He did nt

[in_cog_ni_to]

90. LOL! Do I hear an echo in here?!

:rofl:

[JI7]

117. it certainly IS Obama

[chascarrillo]

120. He did. (nt)

[IndianaGreen]

145. Hillary is a reactionary, not a progressive!

She voted for Kyl-Lieberman. Thousands have died because of her vote on Iraq War Resolution, and thousands more would die if Bush bombs Iran.

[gulliver]

70. Bet he didn't ask Obama.

Let's see if Obama's people play this up or down.

[Adelante]

76. Obama is proud to have Kucinich's support in Iowa

And so am I.

And now Obama has issued this statement: “I have a lot of respect for Congressman Kucinich, and I’m honored that he has done this because we both believe deeply in the need for fundamental change."

More: “He and I have been fighting for a number of the same priorities -- including an end to the war in Iraq that we both opposed from the start, reforming Washington and creating a better life for America's working families. I encourage all Iowans to take part in the caucuses this Thursday – not because it will be good for any one candidate, but because it will be good for our party and the future of our country.”

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/01/542614.aspx

[MuseRider]

88. That is a very

gracious statement. Thanks for posting it.

[gulliver]

89. OK. I lose my bet.

I don't think I have seen this move before. Seems kind of risky to me.

[BeyondGeography]

123. It's genuine...Obama has always shown a lot of respect towards Dennis

I remember Letterman tried to get him to throw Dennis under the bus during an interview and Obama said Dennis has a "devil-may-care" attitude that adds a lot to the race. Well, here's what he said:

==Obama: “I think it is good. We’ve got terrific candidates, not just myself and Hillary. You’ve got John Edwards, who’s run a terrific campaign so far; Bill Richardson, a terrific governor; I’ve got a couple of colleagues, Chris Dodd and Joe Biden and Dennis Kucinich from Congress, and so we’ve got a great collection of candidates.”

Letterman: (laughs) “Now, you’re kidding about Kucinich, right?” (audience laughs)

Obama:: “ No, no, you know, he, uh, he spices things up, you know. He has that devil-may-care-attitude that I think is healthy for a presidential race.”==

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2007/04/excerpts_obama_on_letterman.html

[Truth2Tell]

147. devil-may-care-attitude

Translation: Kucinich actually tells the truth all the time. Obama finds this reckless in a fellow politician.

[loveangelc]

80. Smart for Kucinich

Obama has the best chance of defeating Clinton (even above Edwards). He knows he will not win the nomination, so an Obama win in Iowa could potentially help him win the nomination, and Kucinich would rather have obama as the nominee than Hillary obviously.

[bluedog]

83. at least Kooch got some money for his house run in ohio

LOL

[no name no slogan]

118. He's got PLENTY of money for that

Besides, he's in a safe seat. He wins with 70%+ most of the time.

[bluedog]

122. not according to this

"Kucinich didn’t raise any money for his congressional campaign last quarter and has only $3,850 remaining in his House campaign account. He has $327,000 in his presidential campaign account, which he can transfer for his reelection bid."


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7189.html

[Honeycombe8]

114. That's what I think, too. Obama is the main obstacle to Hillary. He's mainly...

trying to hurt Clinton's chances.

Hope it helps the cause.

[fenriswolf]

81. sorry dennis

i love you but if your asking us to vote for someone else im going with edwards.

[FrenchieCat]

82. Excellent.......

Kucinich is no lightweight. Can't pull the wool over his eyes.

Whoop, there it is! :headbang:

[College Liberal]

84. Obama Win Iowa

:hi:

It's pretty much official now.....

[Cameron27]

86. Congrats Obama supporters,

I think it's a big deal to get that kind of validation from Dennis. Very nice.

[Adelante]

95. Thanks, Sea

Happy New Year :hi:



OT:

Last night I was invited to my neighbor's to celebrate New Year's Eve. Nothing like what I am used to, but really, really nice. You eat dinner and dessert with a bunch of family members. At 12 midnight they place a glass holding 12 grapes in front of you and with each churchbell you eat a grape. Then everyone gets up from the table and embraces everyone else one by one. Then you throw a pail of water across the sidewalk in front of the house. Then you toss a handful of rice over your shoulder out into the night. Then you take a suitcase and go for a walk, which we did, and watched a gorgeous fireworks display. The suitcase portends a nice vacation coming - each step means something, but I didn't grasp it all with my lousy Spanish. Then about 2AM all the little kids in the neighborhood are outside with their parents beating on a piñata. At which point I went inside and to bed.

How cool, right? :D

[Cameron27]

99. Very cool :-)

I stayed home, watched the new Bourne movie and hit the sack early. My favorite past time lately ROFL.

Happy New Year to you too! :toast:

[hayu_lol]

100. Someone already mentioned that Kucinich had 9 supporters in Iowa...

geez, I thought there were only three of the pesky critters in that state.

Having nine is enough to launch Dennis into a race for Cleveland mayor.

[Skip Intro]

101. Well, he just dropped down a few notches in my book.

He's evidently had some koolaid.

[GreenArrow]

131. he might have had the kool aid,

but he didn't have the snake oil.

[BootinUp]

106. Boooooo! Boooooooooooo!

lol.

[philly_bob]

107. I would have thought Edwards was closer to Kucinich on policy...

Am I wrong? Is it something personal?

Generally, I'm disappointed by this news. Kucinich doesn't provide any explanation or open announcement of this surprising decision. I think his supporters deserve one. I won't donate to Kucinich next time around, much as I like his policies, if my money is just going to be used for non-transparent behind-closed-door deal-making.

P.S. All is forgiven if Kucinich made a deal with Obama for single-payer universal health insurance as the price for his second-ballot support.

[Adelante]

109. Wouldn't I love that

P.S. All is forgiven if Kucinich made a deal with Obama for single-payer universal health insurance as the price for his second-ballot support.

[maxanne]

116. you mean

the new, repackaged, strangely liberal Edwards?

The same Edwards who has repudiated almost every vote he made in the Senate, and apologized for many things he's said? THAT Edwards?

I'm not surprised to learn that DK isn't impressed with a guy who seems to be willing to say anything, do anything, and change his stand on anything in order to get elected.

[ozone_man]

138. He's a progressive now.

He has progressives like Ben Cohen and Ralph Nader supporting him.

I gave Kucinich a donation during his recent fund raiser, and would prefer it didn't end up as an Obama donation. He should let his supporters vote for who they want to without suggesting a choice for them, like they don't have minds of their own.

Kucinich did the same thing in 2004 when Dean was the logical antiwar candidate who had a chance. Edwards was apparently progressive enough then for Kucinich.

[antiimperialist]

108. Another question: What percentage of Kucinich followers read the Politico piece

Where it was reported that he encourages them to follow Obama?
And...will all Kucinich followers vote for Obama in a second round only because Kucinich encouraged them to do so? I would bet most of those reading the Politico piece will. But how many are those?

[Adelante]

110. It's pretty much everywhere

http://news.google.com/news?q=kucinich+obama&sourceid=mozilla2&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wn

But, no, I don't think all Kucinich supporters will follow his suggestion. It's a suggestion, not an order. Something he would like to see happen, but he respects his supporters' independence of thought, as they do his.

[Tom Rinaldo]

115. Obviously a plus for Obama, not helpful for Clinton, bad for Edwards

I'll let Kucinich backers figure out how this move plays out for him. Kucinich has clearly not bought into the Edwards as the great progressive hope meme.

[karynnj]

146. I doubt any of his competitors have

Remember the union debate where Biden in particular challenged him on what he did for unions more than 2 years ago. Edwards answered with things he did in the last year. the question is what will he actually do if elected? Will he change again?

[calteacherguy]

119. To Dennis!!!!!!!

:toast:

[sandyd921]

121. Doesn't mean they're going to do it

You might want to take a look at this post by a DU'er who is a Kucinich supporter:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2568593

[Chovexani]

126. This is disheartening.

I love and support DK but there is nothing on this Earth that would make me vote for Obama, unless he got the nomination, in which case I'd clothespin my nose.

My first instinct is disappointment but I would like to hear DK's reasoning on this a little more in-depth.

[Major Hogwash]

127. We ARE the party of change! Hillary - "stay the curse".

And that's not a typo.

[AtomicKitten]

132. This doesn't surprise me.

It is clear to me that Dennis can't win, and I am very grateful he chose the candidate that he deems closest to his ideals and quest for change.

I think the haters here at DU might want to re-think their scorched earth view of Obama because they obviously, and thanks to the high-five from Dennis corroborating, have him entirely wrong.

[MuseRider]

134. Nope, have him right

at least for myself. This was not an endorsement as far as I am concerned. Read DK's statement. We have ONE thing in common, change. One thing, a one time vote IF there are not enough for him to make the threshold. They will be back to competing in NH. This is strategic and there is no way that they are close in ideals. No way.

[AtomicKitten]

135. That is your opinion ....

I disagree.

I did some fundraising work for and with Kucinich in 2004. I think I have a pretty good handle on where he's coming from.

And so it goes.

[MuseRider]

136. Nope it pretty much came from his statement.

Read it. I have no problem saying that something is my opinion only but this came from his statement. One time only, back to competing in NH. One thing in common, change. Whatever else you think that is fine but those statements came from what was said.

Edit: Sorry, I should have linked this for you. http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Kucinich_sorta_endorses_Obama.html

[AtomicKitten]

137. Well, if you insist on limiting the common thread to change ...

I've got no problem with that because change is an ethereal term that encompasses many rubber-meets-the-road issues.

But I still think you and others here have painted a picture of Obama that is far from truth or reality. However, having worked in the Democratic Party for the last 35 years, I'm not surprised that mis/disinformation particularly that spread around on message boards has this type of effect.

And all this conversation will be moot soon enough and I will be glad to get through this primary and on to kicking the sh*t out of the Republicans.

[MuseRider]

140. I too will be glad

when it is over, I find it all very distasteful however democracy is messy, wish we had it back.

The Homophobic Gospel Trio can't be spun, sorry. Bad move, offensive move and one that is not forgivable as far as I am concerned. There are other things I do not like about him but even if I had been his biggest supporter that would have stopped me cold. I am not uninformed just unimpressed and very angry that my friends were thrown under the bus by someone who "preaches" inclusion and hope. Some things just are too important to let go. Whatever he says after that move will mean little now, he has a long time of proving he did not mean to do what he did to them.

As far as the change thing goes I agree with what you said but I can't put their policies together and really find anything close to agreement. They may touch on occasion but I do not see the change we need with BO. JMO, that is JMO. :hi:

[AtomicKitten]

141. Hey, no worries, we are all taking our opinions out for a test drive here.

I think the big elephant in the room is the fact that Kucinich and Obama (and Gravel FWIW) were the only candidates that opposed the war from the get-go. Much effort has been made here at DU to marginalize Obama's opposition to the war, but it came when he was running in a primary among seven other candidates in 2002, when coming out against the war wasn't popular.

That resonates with me a lot and I suspect with Dennis as well.

The McClurkin thing was a mistake for a lot of reasons, but viewing it broadly, Obama has a good LGBT record as critiqued by the LGBT community, and just about every friend of mine (racking my brain for an exception but can't think of one) views it as an unfortunate faux pas.

So, I think Dennis choosing Obama in Iowa has a symmetry that makes sense to me. It doesn't mean any of his supporters should feel compelled to follow his wishes, but it is food for thought.

Best of luck in the primary. Kucinich is a good guy and, quite frankly, I would be fine with ABH.

Cheers.

[MuseRider]

144. I agree that the war vote

is a big deal.

As I said before, the McClurkin thing will take a while to heal over. He is going to have to prove he really does not support that kind of thing and everything that has been said so far has not done that. He is starting from below his record now. He can do it if he really wants to and really feels that he did the wrong thing but it will take a while. It was very hurtful.

I am actually appalled by all the misunderstanding of the process and what it really is that was said and is happening. Just reading the threads here is not only annoying but down right saddening. Ah well, I guess I just assumed that people really knew what a caucus was, how they are run and what the dynamics often are. I am not talking about you here just thinking out loud. Good grief it is a mess.

Cheers back and have a good night.

[AtomicKitten]

166. Just to be clear, even if this is a purely strategic maneuver on DK's part -

I'm fine with that too. Obama has the best shot of beating Hillary, and I'm fully behind that endeavor.

And if the fact that DK and Obama were both against the war from the beginning is purely coincidental, that works for me too because that speaks to me.

So, either way, I am happy and grateful for DK's maneuver.

Have a great day.

[Colobo]

142. I'm proud of Dennis; he understand Obama is our only hope.

[Truth2Tell]

148. I think my man is wrong on this.

But he's human. And my support for Dennis is based on a composite of many many things.

I suspect this is based on personal issues with Edwards. After all, a simple glance at the candidate's positions tells you that Edwards is closest to Kucinich on policy alone. I will be interested in someday learning more about the reasons behind this.

I still plan to fall back to Edwards if DK can't muster 15% in my own caucus.

[K8-EEE]

150. He is wrong - I'm very disappointed

I expected more from him.

[Colobo]

156. Be proud of Dennis; he did the right thing. Obama is our best bet.

[Colobo]

155. Dennis is right. He's never been more correct.

[info being]

159. I'm not gonna donate to him anymore though....

...because I didn't give Dennis my money only to have him back a Corporatist. I think we should all write to him and let him know how we feel.

[southerncrone]

149. This at first surprised me until......

I thought about it.

It seems Edwards may have a lot of momentum in Iowa & DK probably knows that.

In giving his delegates to Obama, this might insure the Hillary places third, therefore, placing doubt in the minds of the voters in the other primaries & swaying those that are not completely committed to HRC toward another candidate.

I think DK would rather see any other candidate win but her.

On edit: (I should really use spellcheck.)

[readmoreoften]

151. Wow, and my respect for DK diminishes... /nt

[Californian Dreamer]

153. My guess

As I said in another thread on this, what I think is going on here is that Dennis' main worry is that Clinton is the nominee and pardons everyone off, whether Edwards or Obama succeed over her is secondary. Of them, Obama could easily be considered the stronger candidate right now.

Of course, I'm rooting for Edwards to take the lead, so I'll just consider this a better chance for Clinton to come in 3rd.

[hedgehog]

161. What are the implications here for later primaries? I spoke with someone yesterday

who was debating whther to vote for Kucinich or Obama in the New York Primary.

[Adelante]

163. Dennis wants his supporters to vote for him in all primaries

It's only the Iowa Caucus and only after the first round that he is asking for support to move to Obama if Dennis himself is not viable.

[Adelante]

162. 527 group ads seem to bother Kucinich

Here is a new thread this morning of Dennis being interviewed by Thom Hartmann on Monday before the statement about Obama was issued, where Dennis is very upset over 527 ads being run for Edwards. I haven't heard the show, but if a transcript or audio turns up, I will post it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3927351

In addition, this is from Sunday:

Kucinich Hits Edwards With Newspaper Story

Rep. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio is using a Concord (NH) Monitor newspaper story to attack former senator John Edwards of North Carolina over Edwards' "mysterious" support in the early presidential nomination voting in Iowa and New Hampshire.

Kucinich and Edwards are rivals for the Democratic presidential nomination.

A statement issued by the Kucinich campaign quotes the Monitor story: "Edwards has often invoked (Teddy) Roosevelt on the stump as a hero and railed against the influence of money in politics. But at the same time, it appears that the pro-Edwards movement has had a huge infusion of cash from the old Mellon fortune.

"Turns out, the labor-linked, pro-Edwards 527 that's been running ads in Iowa and spreading pamphlets in New Hampshire has deep-pocketed friends outside of unions.

http://onthehillblog.blogspot.com/2007/12/kucinich-hits-edwards-with-newspaper.html

Maybe he just thinks Edwards is a hypocrite about campaign finance reform :shrug:

[Truth2Tell]

167. I'm OK with labor money. n/t

[Adelante]

168. I'm okay with campaign finance integrity nt

[Truth2Tell]

172. But Obama is OK with you? Weird. n/t

[Radical Activist]

171. Kucinich is using right wing talking points! He's a conservative!

Well, that's what people said when Obama made the same point. That's what some people say about EVERYTHING Obama says. Its getting old.

[Flabbergasted]

169. kick

[Samantha]

173. As someone with no horse in this race, may I offer this thought?

I was very surprised when I first learned of this. However, some polls discussed tonight show Hillary and Obama in a TIE. I believe the candidates all have better information than we do. In the event Hillary and Obama are literally tied, I think Kucinich might feel he prefers to influence his supporters to break that tie as opposed to recommending they support the candidate with whom he most closely identifies issue-wise.

If that is the case, Kucinich seeks to operate as a power-broker in this race. The inference is that he prefers Obama over Hillary and is asking his supporters to make a difference that literally counts, as opposed to casting votes from the heart. In short, he wants a job in an Obama administration where he might possibly be able to make a difference.

Just my two political cents....

[JCMach1]

174. Yet another reason not to support Kucinich this year!

:grr: