Andrew Sulivan via the Politico: The Clintons and the Race Card

[flpoljunkie]

By all means necessary:

Sen. Barack Obama has had the most trouble winning support of older and rural voters, according to polls. In Cherokee, one Clinton precinct captain who asked that her name not be used questioned his prospects: “We’ve got to keep an eye on electability,” she said. “Is America ready for a black president?”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7633.html

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/01/the-clintons-an.html

[msongs]

1. obama plays the race card as much as anybody nt

[journalist3072]

4. Yep...see my post in this thread for the examples of him and other doing it for him.

[THUNDER HANDS]

2. What is America ready for?

Let's see...

Going back 80 years or so.

1. A guy who couldn't walk. (4x)
2. A guy who could barely move without beind doped up.
3. A guy who sweated a lot. (2x)
4. A guy who farted a lot.
5. A guy who grew peanuts.
6. A guy who acted in a movie with a monkey. (2x)
7. A guy who threw up a lot.
7. A guy who cheated on his wife. (2x)
8. A guy with no brains. (2x)

Yeah, I think this country can handle a black guy.

[adnelson60087]

8. Let's see...

in a country that still denies its culpability and responsibility for American Slavery, or thinks that "Race has nothing to do with the outcomes of Katrina" or believes that a woman should earn as much as a man...HONESTLY, how can anyone truly think America can seriously elect any minority (including women) to the Big Chair? I think the Repubs are hoping for either of these guys to be the Democratic nominee so they can "buzz word" the very narrow-minded electorate into electing another Republican. I don't know why this is difficult for so many to either recognize or accept.

[journalist3072]

3. The Obamas playing the race card

- Barack Obama speaking on Tavis Smiley's radio program "There's no doubt that if we consolidate the Black vote, this would be a different race."

- Michelle Obama: "Imagine our family on that inaugural platform. America will look at itself differently. The world will look at America differently. There is no other candidate who is going to do that for our country. You know that."

And the Obamas have had help from people like Tom Joyner.

Example-

When Tom Joyner had Rep. Kendrid Meek of Florida (who has endorsed Sen. Clinton) on his show, his very first question to Rep. Meek: "There's a perfectly qualified Black man running for President. Why aren't you supporting Sen. Obama?"

When interviewing Barack Obama, Tom Joyner said that if every Black person now supporting Sen. Clinton would instead support Obama, this would be a different race. Instead of saying he doesn't want anyone to vote for him simply b/c of his race, Obama agreed with Tom Joyner, saying Sen. Clinton's lead would virtually be gone if every Black person supporting her would support him instead.

[Bullet1987]

7. Those aren't examples of playing the race card...sorry

Just because a person says BLACK doesn't make it a race card genius.

[Nedsdag]

10. Amen!

They're just telling it like it is.

Deal with it!

[journalist3072]

11. Take off your partisan hat for a minute, if you're even capable of doing that.

It's about time you looked at the evidence regarding your candidate, instead of just being an apologist for him.

Grow up.

[Nedsdag]

13. That's all journalist 3072 can say when her candidate is dissed.

"Grow up."

Perhaps it's time for you to grow up. You can dish it but you cannot take it.

[Bullet1987]

22. If you seriously think that's an example of using the race card

then you need some serious help.

[journalist3072]

24. Sounds like you're the one who needs help, dummie.

[zulchzulu]

15. I'd like to see the transcript you keep referring to with Joyner and Obama

I looked on his site for anything about the interview. As for the statement about if Clinton supporters who happen to be black switched to Obama. how can you not see that it's true?

On the question to Rep. Meek, it sounds like a question that a radio talk show host would ask. What was Meek's answer? Was it the usual "she has experience..."?

On Tavis Smiley's show, how is it not something obvious that if more black voters voted, it would be a different election? Personally, getting more black voters to vote would be a good thing, especially if their vote was ACTUALLY counted.

[journalist3072]

21. Obviously you don't get it. Let me try to put this into perspective for you.

You probably haven't listened to Tom Joyner's radio program. But, he's basically been trying to get Black America to engage in group think and get behind the Black candidate.

When he said to Obama that if every Black person currently supporting Sen. Clinton would support Obama instead, this would be a different race....he was trying to get Black America to vote in lock step.

As an African-American, I happen to think that's a very dangerous thing. We as African-Americans have NEVER been a monolithic group, and I think that's good. There needs to be a diversity of ideas within our community.

What's more, I was disturbed by Barack Obama's response. I felt that the appropriate response should have been for him to say that he doesn't want anyone in Black America to vote for him simply because he's Black. Yet, he just simply agreed with Tom Joyner.

Also, Tom Joyner has had Michelle Obama on his show. During one of her appearances, he was trying to ask her why the female African-American vote was so split between Sen. Clinton and Obama. And he said to her "What is up with Black women?" Meaning, he believes there is something wrong with any Black woman (like me) not supporting Obama.

And I thought his question to Rep. Meek ("There's a perfectly qualified Black man running for President. Why aren't you supporting Sen. Obama?") was very inappropriate. Because once again, Tom Joyner was operating under the premise that we should automatically get behind the Black candidate. It was almost as if Tom Joyner was saying 'How dare you not support Obama.' That was the tone and the context of his question.

Lastly, in reference to Obama's appearance on Tavis Smiley's show. Tavis' question wasn't about getting more Black people to the polls, no matter who they vote for. It was about getting more Black people to support Obama. Tavis Smiley asked Barack Obama about the notion that some people apparently have, that if Black people supported Obama in the same way they supported Rev. Jesse Jackson when he ran, then in Tavis' words Senator Clinton would "have to go home right now." Obama responded by saying "There's no doubt that if we consolidate the Black vote, that would have a profound shift in the national polls." Once again, WRONG ANSWER! I think that would have been another opportune time for him to say he doesn't want people supporting just because of his race.

[journalist3072]

25. Here's the audio of the "consolidate the black vote" quote by Obama

I don't have the audio of the Tom Joyner appearances. I'm normally at work when I listen to Tom Joyner, so when I'm listening to him at work, I don't have the ability to record, but I will write down and make note of certain comments, just like I made note of his comments to Michelle Obama about "what's up with Black women?" and to Kendrid Meek.

But here is the audio of Tavis Smiley and Barack Obama. Again, this is the part where Tavis asks Obama about the notion that if Black people would support Obama like we supported Jesse Jackson in his presidential runs, then Sen. Clinton would "have to go home." And that's when Barack responds by saying that if we consolidated the Black vote, it would have a profound shift in the polls.

It's his use of the word "consolidate" that really got to me, because I felt like he was suggesting we engage in group think.

http://www.zshare.net/audio/6092100eec909a/

[durrrty libby]

5. Andrew Sullivan recently revealed on the Sunday Chris Matthew

Show, that he is intelligible to even vote in the US

Why do people pay attention to this tool?

[IndianaJones]

6. no...not ready. nt.

[Adelante]

9. “We’ve got to keep an eye on electability. Is America ready for a woman president?”

I wonder how that would go over. Not well at all with me.

[Tom Rinaldo]

17. Me either, but this is an unamed precinct captain quoted

How many (most likely volunteer) precinct captains do each or the leading candidates have? There are not yet political brain police capable of screening out folks who will say something like this, off the record especially, from a campaign. It's not like the comment was an off the charts wild fringe sentiment that doesn't get debated here at DU all the time also.

[alfredo]

23. A precinct captain is like a 2nd Lt. They are at the bottom of the food chain.

If it was a higher up, I would be more upset. Anyway, that Precinct Captain could be voted out come this spring. They usually serve four years, from presidential race to presidential race.

[BenDavid]

12. Oh, so this right-wing handjob feels it's his duty to come to the

aid of obama who,appartently, is just too darn stupid to realize he's been the victim of a vicious racial slur,so the right-wing nutjob with a noose in his trunk is going to "help out?" Again,Andrew thinks blacks can't understand the complexities of an insult. Maybe the blacks weren't offended because no offense took place? Isn't it nice of the right-wing Republicans to explain things to the blacks? Either I'm the only person who read what that man said OR I have the only honest opinion.Shaheen said the bastard Republicans would likely use Obama's drug admission against him. But Andrew Sullivan is giving us his Nancy Grace Guarantee that the GOP slime machine would never stoop so low as to use an opponents words against him.But again, the GOP slime machine would never use an opponents words against him,so we can all rest easy because Andrew says the Willie Horton bastards are going to play fair this time around, so that's that.

[struggle4progress]

27. It's a mystery to me why anybody here would care what Sullivan says

[Adelante]

14. David Shuster a couple of weeks ago on Hardball

SHUSTER: Chris, there‘s a lot of stuff that‘s going on under the radar, whether it‘s flyers, whether it‘s push phone calls, whether it‘s radio messages, whether it‘s canvassing operations; there‘s a lot of stuff going on under the radar. I think over the last two weeks—As you know, in tight races, especially with national implications, there is a lot of dirty pool that is played. Whether or not you can trace that back directly to the Clintons or simply their supporters, to say OK, now it‘s crunch time. Now it‘s time to raise the issue of Obama‘s electability because of his race; now it‘s time to raise the question beyond his experience.

Those are things that are being talked about now by some of the canvassers. And whether or not it‘s because they are trained improperly or whether they‘re just doing this on their own, it‘s still an issue and it‘s only going get worse.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22342862/

[Tom Rinaldo]

18. The most effective electability card to play against Hillary isn't race or gender

It's how "unlikable' she supposedly is to the public now after having been slandered for 15 years by the Right wing. And that card gets played by supporters of other candidates against Clinton all the time nowadays. It is indeed "crunch time" and partisans on all sides seem intent on digging up and using any argument they can find to prove that who they support is more electable than whoever they are running against. I've seen Bill Clinton's "Bimbo problem" played as a card against Hillary also. The approach usually is "it may not be fair BUT..."

[Jai4WKC08]

20. I listen to a lot of progressive radio

Most of the Clinton supporters I hear citing race and electability as an issue/problem are themselves African-American. Many of them do not believe America is ready to elect a black man, and some of them believe if Obama manages to get is elected, he'll be shot (personally, I think Hillary is in the same GRAVE danger).

I'm not sure where I stand on this. I don't like to see white people raising the question -- as a Jew, I know that Jews can say things about Jews that I wouldn't accept from non-Jews, at least not unless they were VERY close friends. But on the other hand, a precinct chairperson is basically speaking to his/her friends and neighbors and some are going to express their opinions quite frankly.

It's a damn shame that race or gender will make a difference. And I mean "shame" quite literally. But it is also unrealistic to pretend that it won't. Otoh, I don't believe we should just roll over and accept it. If I thought Obama were the best qualified, I believe I would support him anyway. Ain't none of them without obstacles to overcome.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

16. Doubly dethpicable-...politico AND Andrew Sullivan.

MKJ

[madrchsod]

19. you mean this?--->"In Iowa, Bubba is back"

rural iowans aren`t smart enough to understand politics?

"The rural precincts of Western Iowa represent a minority of the state’s Democrats, who are clustered in Des Moines, in college towns and in the small cities in the east of the state, near the Mississippi River.----> But Clinton’s aides believe that persistence, and Bill, can help her win support from the ---->older, less-educated Democrats. <------


what`s this mean?----> (And it has the added advantage of keeping the former president, who has a bad habit of inadvertently stealing headlines from his wife, far from the Des Moines-based press <------—

Politico was accompanied only by a single local radio reporter at one event.)
reporter at one event.)

there`s this gem from a clinton worker in cherokee that she thinks no one will know she said this--->

"In Cherokee, one Clinton precinct captain who asked that her name not be used questioned his prospects: “We’ve got to keep an eye on electability,” she said. “Is America ready for a black president?”


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7633.html
In Iowa, Bubba is back - Ben Smith - Politico.com


if i did`t read this about obama i would have never know that rural iowans are "less educated". i never thought my mom and her kin from that area of iowa were "less educated" they just care about other things than the "big city folks" do and for the "black president" comment maybe the clinton worker needs a bit more education.

[dogishboy]

26. Are you a regular reader of "bareback" Sully's?

Any other right wing pundits whose "wisdom" you'd like to share with us? I understand that many DUers come here just to read what the right wing thinks of dems