Is Kerry Going to Say Anything About Bush's Proposed Ban On Gay Marriages?

[slinkerwink]

If Kerry doesn't respond today to this----it will be very telling.

[maddezmom]

1. has Edward's issued a statement?

[maddezmom]

9. here's a statement from Edwards from 11/18/03

Statement Of Senator Edwards On Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court Decision
Senator John Edwards (D-NC) released the following statement today:
"As I have long said, I believe gay and lesbian Americans are entitled to equal respect and dignity under our laws. While I personally do not support gay marriage, I recognize that different states will address this in different ways, and I will oppose any effort to pass an amendment to the United States Constitution in response to the Massachusetts decision.

"We are a nation comprised of men and women from all walks of life. It is in our national character to provide equal opportunity to all, and this is what unites our country, in laws and in shared purpose. That is why today, we must also reach out to those individuals who will try to exploit this decision to further divide our nation, and ask them to refrain from that effort."
Last modified on 11/18/2003 4:49:31 PM

[libview]

70. wow, that statement plays both sides of the fence brilliantly!!!

[berner59]

2. he will...

He's always said he's against gay marriage but not civil unions and he's always said he's against an admendment...

[slinkerwink]

3. how can he be against gay marriage and against a ban on gay marriages?

It's going to be very difficult for Kerry to successfully argue this when Bush asks him that same question at the upcoming debates.

[emulatorloo]

7. kerry is against a natl amendment to constitution

and for civil unions and partnership rights

Last I checked GWB is *for* natl amendment and *against* civil unions and partnership rights.

Bush is an idiot and Kerry has a functioning brain. He will not have trouble answering any question that Bush puts forth, even if Dr. Evil Karl is feeding them to GWB through their super secret earphone.

[Snivi Yllom]

51. Past Kerry positions on a yes or no answer

1. Claims to oppose gay marriage, but supports civil unions.
2. Says he wants states to decide how to deal with gay marriage, but was one of only fourteen senators to vote against the federal Defense Of Marriage Act, which guarantees just that.
3. Says he'll probably support a Massachusetts state constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, but won't support a federal amendment.
4. Says he won't support a federal amendment, but says it depends on the language.
5. Claims to know nothing about the gay "marriages" being performed in San Francisco.

He needs to be pressured to come out in favor of gay marriage and against a ban, federal or state.

[jmoss]

60. problem with Kerry as our nominee..

...is precisely this kind of skirting around these issues. If he prevails in these primaries (although I hope Edwards pulls out the miracle come-back), I hope that he will quickly take a page from Sen. Edwards, who has been extremely consistent and direct with his answers to tough questions (if you like his viewpoints or not). It would be a shame if we lost in November because Kerry failes to energize undecided voters who were leaning in either direction. The more polarized politics become, I would think that a straightfoward, more conservative approach like Edwards' campaign is protraying, would be the better route to go.

[sangh0]

107. "I will vote against such an amendment if it comes to the Senate floor."

That's Kerry's statement on the issue. IS that direct enough for you?

[jmoss]

117. Well, the thing is--there is more than one issue...

...I'm providing constructive criticism about our front-running candidate's style & approach to tough questions. His wordiness will lose some folks. In stead of sniping back at little 'ol me, take a hard look at what I'm discussing-with an open-mind.

[sangh0]

118. I understand that, but

IMO his actions and statements of late should be putting claims of "wordiness" to bed. If I can't counter your claims of "wordiness" with examples where Kerry has become clear and direct, then what kind of discussion would this be?

Maybe you should reconsider your opinion of Kerry's style and approach to tough questions?

[jmoss]

123. by no means would Kerry lose my vote--It's not me you need to worry about

I am simply urging (seriously urging) folks on this site who have some semblance of contact with the Kerry campaign, to offer this constructive criticism loud and clear.

I actively support John Edwards right now. I volunteer at one of his campaign offices. When I hear constructive criticism about JRE, I pass it on to one of the campaign managers.

That's my point; no more, no less.

[libview]

71. THANK YOU!!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

78. Karl Rove thanks you too

Kerry will not take the bait.

[Scott Lee]

87. Fear tactic in place of a logical answer.

How Georing-esque.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

91. See Kerry's statement

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0224b.html

..it's all about Bush running away from his real problems, ignoring real pain and suffering amongst Americans.

[Scott Lee]

110. Like Kerry runs from controverssy?

Via his Pro IWR vote?. Oh yes, like that. Thanks.

[Blue_Roses]

121. not really

This is a "states rights" issue and there should be NO amendment to the Constitution. He doesn't have to be for gay marriage to disagree with an amendment that not only sets a precedence to openeing the Constitution for all sorts of stupid amendments, but is formed solely for the purpose of appealing to Bush's conservative base.

Bush is using this solely as a "wedge issue," pure and simple. He has nothing else to appeal to his base except his smirk.

[maddezmom]

4. agree, he's been consistant on this issue

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/glbt/

Record of Working on Behalf of Gay and Lesbian Americans
With a 100% rating from the Human Rights Campaign since 1995, John Kerry is a powerful voice in the ongoing fight for civil rights for gay and lesbian Americans.


Priorities
Preventing Hate Crimes
John Kerry is an original cosponsor of the Hate Crimes Prevention bill, which would extend federal jurisdiction over serious, violent hate crimes. These would include crimes motivated by sexual orientation. Hate crimes rose a disturbing 3.5% from 1999 to 2000.

Ending Discrimination
One of John Kerry’s first acts as a U.S. Senator, in 1985, was to introduce a bill prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. He supports passage of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, and has adopted a nondiscrimination policy for his Congressional offices based on sexual orientation and gender identity.

HIV/AIDS Funding
John Kerry cosponsored the first Ryan White Comprehensive AIDS Resources Emergency Act (CARE) - which represents the largest discretionary federal investment in treating individuals with HIV and AIDS. Kerry also sponsored the Vaccines for the New Millennium Act, aimed at boosting contributions to the International AIDS Vaccine Initiative, a non-profit group working to promote development of an HIV vaccine in 2000. Kerry introduced the U.S. Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, TB, and Malaria Act, which would increase the U.S. government’s funding of international HIV/AIDS efforts from approximately $1.7 billion in 2003 to $1.9 billion in 2004. This effort led to the unanimous passage in May 2003 the United States Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, TB, and Malaria Act of 2003. AIDS activists characterized Kerry as one of Congress’s top leaders on HIV/AIDS policy.

Protecting Gay and Lesbian Families
John Kerry believes that same-sex couples should be granted rights, including access to pensions, health insurance, family medical leave, bereavement leave, hospital visitation, survivor benefits, and other basic legal protections that all families and children need. He has supported legislation to provide domestic partners of federal employees the benefits available to spouses of federal employees. He was one of 14 Senators -- and the only one up for reelection in 1996 -- to oppose the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).

Lifting the Ban on Gays in the Military
John Kerry opposed the Clinton Administration’s “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Policy” He was one of a few senators to testify before the Senate Armed Services Committee and call on the President to rescind the ban on gay and lesbian service members.

Support for Civil Unions
John Kerry supports same-sex civil unions so that gay couples can benefit from the health benefits, inheritance rights, or Social Security survivor benefits guaranteed for

[jmoss]

61. although I support Edwards right now, Kerry should be more direct -

---about discussing this record in public forums. His life-long-Senate style of public rhetoric is going to lose, if not merely bore, many people. A debate between Kerry and GW seems to me that it will be very dry, and contain many "round-abouts" Re: the issues being discussed.

Please write John Kerry and urge him to adopt the same sort of straight foward answers on which John Edwards is building his campaign success--it will only help!

[mmonk]

11. the problem is

the dictionaries I have scoured do not use the term "civil unions". They all seem to use the term "civil marriage". I see a pandora's box on this issue which is exactly what the repubs are trying to accomplish. It's meant to divide and they feel they have the numbers to make political hay in their favor.

[papau]

5. Kerry is on record that rights MUST be protected/extended to gays

He is also on record that the word "marriage" is a hot button religious word that need not/should not be used to describe any new contract law in a state that convey's marriage rights to gays.

Also said he is against Constitutional amendment as this is a state issue.

[slinkerwink]

6. look at post #3----how can kerry succesfully argue this?

[emulatorloo]

10. Because he is a smart man and has a history as a prosecutor and there is

nothing similar in his position to GWBs position.

GWB is not a friend to gays. JK is a friend to gays.

[slinkerwink]

15. I didn't ask for kerry's legislative past---I'm asking how can he argue?

He says he's against gay marriage, but is also against a gay marriage ban--how can you reconcile the two?

[sangh0]

29. Any pro-life pro-choce liberal can tell you

We're against abortion but we don't think the govt should ban abortions. We don't think the govt should be enforcing morality.

Kerry is against gay marriage but he doesn't think the govt should be enforcing a ban

[NewYorkerfromMass]

69. Yep. Personal opinion and law are 2 different things. eom

[emulatorloo]

35. He can say "I am for civil unions and partnership rights"

He can call this federal amendment Gay Bashing as he did DOMA.

He can say that the federal constitution is sacred and is not the place for this kind of pandering to people's prejudice.

He can say all sorts of things that are consistent with his position.

He is not in favor of gay marriage. He is not in favor of a federal amendment to the constitution. He is for Civil Unions and Partnership Rights.

Most people who hear this will be able to hold more than one idea in their head.

[AVID]

13. its a b* trap he shouldn't step into

his position quite clear
he should restate his position on civil unions - over and over, etc.

b* wants to be able to call him wishee washee on this issue,

He is not.

[papau]

27. personal level-rights more important than word- at Fed level no state ban

"how can he be against gay marriage and against a ban on gay marriages ?"

Federal constitution should not discuss marriage or set bans on states making laws regarding it.

At a personal level, he is for rights, but sees no need to upset folks by use of the word "marriage"

[TheStateChief]

56. Bill Richardson Sure Couldn't Do It...

and in my book he's one of the best at dealing with the issues. He was just on television and couldn't come up with an answer when confronted on how he can be against gay marriage but also against an amendment supporting his view. He said he isn't in favor of an amendment (which the host seemed to have problems understanding) and that Bush is using it as a wedge issue. Both immenently true statements that still made him look like he was afraid of the issue. I agree that Kerry needs to be forceful and resolute if he wants to take this issue off the table.

[Meldread]

8. I wouldn't hold my breath.

He alluded to the fact that he might support the amendment at one point after his vote on DOMA kept being brought up. (Anyone remember that?) I doubt he'll stand next to Bush for a Photo Op, but I also doubt he'll come out strongly condemning it.

[slinkerwink]

12. ugh---that's my suspicion also

[mrgorth]

14. master baiting

Slink,

As much as I'd love Kerry to come out swinging on this because it's the right thing to do, guess what, it's what Bush and the 'pugs want. They're baiting Kerry on this, using a social wedge issue to divert attention from the jobless recovery, unstable Iraq, etc. etc. As long as Kerry is on the record as being for civil unions (let's remember that that is what Howard did too) I'm just fine with him keeping his trap shut on this for now.

[slinkerwink]

17. look at post #3, and post #15

Kerry can't avoid this issue and he'll be asked about it in the upcoming debates. How can he successfully debate this?

[mrgorth]

21. By being moderate on it

"I don't support gay marriage but I support civil unions. Likewise, I don't support ammending the constitution." Right now Bush appears extreme on the issue, because he is. If Kerry goes extreme in the other direction (which he doesn't have to) he loses. Slink, I'm all for gay marriage but you and I are not the majority of the electorate.

[slinkerwink]

24. what if bush asks him why he doesn't support gay marriage?

and therefore, why should there be any opposition to the constitutional ban on gay marriage?

[sangh0]

31. SImple answer

Because Kerry doesn't support gay marriage but he doesn't think it should be banned by the Constitution, just as many liberals don't support the decision to have an abortion, but don't think the solution is to have the govt ban abortions

[Snivi Yllom]

72. So Kerry's answer is YES?! or it it NO?!

Because Kerry doesn't support gay marriage but he doesn't think it should be banned by the Constitution, just as many liberals don't support the decision to have an abortion, but don't think the solution is to have the govt ban abortions

Why can't he be in favor of gay marriage and against the ban or against gay marriage and in favor of the ban? It looks an awful lot like trying to have it both ways.

[sangh0]

80. "Yes or no" what?

You ask questions that have multiple answers and then demand a Yes or a No.

[Scott Lee]

111. Thank you for showing us Botox's upcoming losing strategem

You have illustrated it to a T.

[sangh0]

112. Another prediction from Scott Lee?

Some people NEVER learn!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=780914&mesg_id=781733&page=

[bluedog]

16. bush said in 2000

Against gay marriage, but leave it to the states

Q: So if you have gays working for you, that’s fine and you don’t have a problem-you’d appoint gays in the Cabinet and so forth.
A: Well, I’m not going to ask what their sexual orientation is. I’m going to put conservative people in the cabinet. It’s none of my business what somebody’s . Now, when somebody makes it my business, like on gay marriage, I’m going to stand up and say I don’t support gay marriage. I support marriage between men and women.



Q: So therefore if a state were voting on gay marriage, you would suggest to that state not to approve it.

A: The state can do what they want to do. Don’t try to trap me in this state’s issue.
Source: GOP Debate on the Larry King Show Feb 15, 2000

http://www.issues2000.org/George_W__Bush_Civil_Rights.htm

[THUNDER HANDS]

18. He won't support a constitutional ammendment on gay marriage

And Bush would be stupid to try.

Kerry will pick and choose his spots with this. Civil unions is a starting point, not an end point.

[Forkboy]

22. I've heard him say

that he would support one depending on the language used.

[THUNDER HANDS]

25. which basically means "no"

He just doesn't want to come out and flatly oppose it before a real debate can begin on it. But by the end of the day, Kerry will come down against a constitutional ammendment.

I am certain of this.

[Forkboy]

30. Well I'm glad you're certain

but I've seen no evidence to support that assertion.It doesn't mean "no",it means exactly what he said,"depending on the language".

[slinkerwink]

38. so if there's a "favorable" ban on gay marriage, it sounds like Kerry will

support it.

[Snivi Yllom]

74. If the ammendment bays gay marriage but allows states civil unions

I bet Kerry will support it.

Anything that leaves the definition of civil unions and partnership rights to the states while defining marriage federally as between a man and a woman will get Kerry's stamp of approval.

Bank on it.

[slinkerwink]

77. this proposed amendment would ban civil unions like those in Vermont

if Kerry supports that amendment, he's lost my vote.

[Snivi Yllom]

79. Bush's exact words today:

Today, I call upon the Congress to promptly pass and to send to the states for ratification an amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting marriage as a union of a man and woman as husband and wife.

The amendment should fully protect marriage, while leaving the state legislatures free to make their own choices in defining legal arrangements other than marriage.

I read "while leaving the state legislatures free to make their own choices in defining legal arrangements other than marriage" to mean civil unions and state partnership rights.

So in a way it's more likely Kerry could conceivably get behind this.

[emulatorloo]

45. state amendment "depending on the language"

I believe this was a response re state amendment. I am not a mind reader, but I assume that "depending on the language" means "does it gay bash, does it forbid civil unions" then not supportable

here are his positions

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/glbt/

Kerry believes that same-sex couples should be granted rights, including access to pensions, health insurance, family medical leave, bereavement leave, hospital visitation, survivor benefits, and other basic legal protections that all families and children need.  He has supported legislation to provide domestic partners of federal employees the benefits available to spouses of federal employees.  He was one of 14 Senators -- and the only one up for reelection in 1996 -- to oppose the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).

John Kerry supports same-sex civil unions so that gay couples can benefit from the health benefits, inheritance rights, or Social Security survivor benefits guaranteed for heterosexual couples.

[Forkboy]

49. That's the impression I got as well

[libview]

75. why doesn't he just say "no" then?

[slinkerwink]

26. that is exactly what troubles me...

[sangh0]

34. Do you have a problem with equal rights for all?

Because Kerry has said that the only way he would support any legislation of amendment on this issue is if it includes labguage that garauntees equal rights to all regardless of their sexual preference.

[Scott Lee]

90. It seems Kerry does!

Or how is he going to *nuance* this one? Unlike Edwards, he's a little clumsey at playing the mug-whump.

[sangh0]

95. Some nuance!

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/glbt /

Kerry believes that same-sex couples should be granted rights, including access to pensions, health insurance, family medical leave, bereavement leave, hospital visitation, survivor benefits, and other basic legal protections that all families and children need. He has supported legislation to provide domestic partners of federal employees the benefits available to spouses of federal employees. He was one of 14 Senators -- and the only one up for reelection in 1996 -- to oppose the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).

John Kerry supports same-sex civil unions so that gay couples can benefit from the health benefits, inheritance rights, or Social Security survivor benefits guaranteed for heterosexual couples.

[sangh0]

97. More - Kerry's response to Bush*

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0224b.html

“I believe President Bush is wrong. All Americans should be concerned when a President who is in political trouble tries to tamper with the Constitution of the United States at the start of his reelection campaign.

“This President can’t talk about jobs. He can’t talk about health care. He can’t talk about a foreign policy, which has driven away allies and weakened the United States, so he is looking for a wedge issue to divide the American people.

“While I believe marriage is between a man and a woman, for 200 years, this has been a state issue. I oppose this election year effort to amend the Constitution in an area that each state can adequately address, and I will vote against such an amendment if it comes to the Senate floor.

“I believe the best way to protect gays and lesbians is through civil unions. I believe the issue of marriage should be left to the states, and that the President of the United States should be addressing the central challenges where he has failed – jobs, health care, and our leadership in the world rather than once again seeking to drive a wedge by toying with the United States Constitution for political purposes.”

[Scott Lee]

114. Botox personally opposes Gay marriage.

He said it himself. Unless he's nuancing again (lying).

Tell me, would you vote for a president that said "Although I personally think that Blacks are subhuman, I am all for their equal rights under the law"?

[sangh0]

115. Getting desperate?

Before you were misstating Kerry's position on a Constitutional amendment. Now that you've been proven wrong, you're trying to make an issue of his personal feelings.

[buckeye1]

19. Dean is still a loser.

Kerry will decide on the law. Equal rights for all. It will be hard though for those that are "undecided".

[slinkerwink]

20. Dean had nothing to do with this post--why bring him up?

Seriously, he's becoming the whipping boy for Democrats like Clinton is for the Republicans.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dave29]

44. As far as I can tell

Dean is really the only one who has actually "won" on this issue.

[RummyTheDummy]

139. Yeah, Dean did a lot of winning during primary season.

Snicker Snicker.

[PVnRT]

65. ?

What does Dean have to do with this? This post was about Kerry's position on Bush's constitutional amendment. Are you unwilling to answer the question, or just unable?

[Scott Lee]

92. Dean has been a champion for gay rights

And unlike Kerry, hasn't tried to fence sit his way through controversy because he lacked any strength of his own convictions.

[blm]

125. HAHAHAHAHAHAH....please post Dean's letters of support for gay issues

that were being advocated by Kerry back in 1985, 1993 and 1996.

Surely the Gov. of Vermont, who you believe was a "champion" for gay rights, MUST have sent letters of support for Kerry's anti-discrimination legislation in 85, his testimony to allow gays to serve openly in the military in 93, and Kerry's stand AGAINST the DOMA bill in 96?

[RetroLounge]

141. Another anti-Dean hit and run

Poop!

[BL_Zebub]

28. Kerry has already said that he favors the ammendments

Not only on the national level, but in his own state. On this issue, as with nearly everything else in the last three years, he is no different than his fellow PNAC corporatist Bonesman "brother" George Bush Jr.

[Forkboy]

32. Not entirely true

he said he would or would not support an amendment "depending on the language" used in it.

[MurikanDemocrat]

33. KERRY HAS ALREADY ISSUED A STATEMENT FOR THIS

This issue was hashed over 3 weeks ago.

Here's the statement

"Well, it depends entirely on the language of whether it permits civil union and partnership or not. I'm for civil union. I'm for partnership rights.

"I think what ought to condition this debate is not the term marriage as much as the rights that people are afforded," Kerry continued. "Obviously under the Constitution of the United States you need equal protection under the law. And I think equal protection means the rights that go with it. I think the word marriage kind of gets in the way of the whole debate, to be honest with you, because marriage to many people is obviously what is sanctified by a church. It's sacramental. Or by a synagogue or by a mosque or by whatever religious connotation it has. Clearly there's a separation of church and state here. ... Marriage is a separate institution. I think marriage is under the church, between a man and a woman, and I think there's a separate meaning to it."

A Record of Working on Behalf of Gay and Lesbian Americans

With a 100% rating from the Human Rights Campaign since 1995, John Kerry is a powerful voice in the ongoing fight for civil rights for gay and lesbian Americans.

Ending Discrimination
One of John Kerry’s first acts as a U.S. Senator, in 1985, was to introduce a bill prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. He supports passage of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, and has adopted a nondiscrimination policy for his Congressional offices based on sexual orientation and gender identity.

HIV/AIDS Funding
John Kerry cosponsored the first Ryan White Comprehensive AIDS Resources Emergency Act (CARE) - which represents the largest discretionary federal investment in treating individuals with HIV and AIDS. Kerry also sponsored the Vaccines for the New Millennium Act, aimed at boosting contributions to the International AIDS Vaccine Initiative, a non-profit group working to promote development of an HIV vaccine in 2000. Kerry introduced the U.S. Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, TB, and Malaria Act, which would increase the U.S. government’s funding of international HIV/AIDS efforts from approximately $1.7 billion in 2003 to $1.9 billion in 2004. This effort led to the unanimous passage in May 2003 the United States Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, TB, and Malaria Act of 2003. AIDS activists characterized Kerry as one of Congress’s top leaders on HIV/AIDS policy.

Preventing Hate Crimes
John Kerry is an original cosponsor of the Hate Crimes Prevention bill, which would extend federal jurisdiction over serious, violent hate crimes. These would include crimes motivated by sexual orientation. Hate crimes rose a disturbing 3.5% from 1999 to 2000.

Protecting Gay and Lesbian Families
John Kerry believes that same-sex couples should be granted rights, including access to pensions, health insurance, family medical leave, bereavement leave, hospital visitation, survivor benefits, and other basic legal protections that all families and children need. He has supported legislation to provide domestic partners of federal employees the benefits available to spouses of federal employees. He was one of 14 Senators -- and the only one up for reelection in 1996 -- to oppose the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).

Lifting the Ban on Gays in the Military
John Kerry opposed the Clinton Administration’s “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Policy” He was one of a few senators to testify before the Senate Armed Services Committee and call on the President to rescind the ban on gay and lesbian service members.

Support for Civil Unions
John Kerry supports same-sex civil unions so that gay couples can benefit from the the health benefits, inheritance rights, or Social Security survivor benefits guaranteed for heterosexual couples.


http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/glbt

edit: oops! I meant to post this at the root of the thread

[Scott Lee]

138. b-b-b-ut he doesnt support gay marriage!

...personally, anyway. He said so. Would you vote for a president who personally thought Blacks were subhumans, but wasn't in favor of taking away their rights?

[sangh0]

37. That's dishonest

There have been no state amendments offered, and so Kerry there's no possibility that Kerry favors any of them because they simply don't exist. The Fed amendment banning gay marriages has been panned by Kerry because it does not garauntee equal rights

[lcooksey]

47. Massachusetts debated a state amendment this month

Search the archives. The Massachusetts Constitutional Convention was held two weeks ago and they spent 95% of the time debating whether or not to approve an amendment defining marriage. They weren't able to reach a decision on the topic and they are going to meet again in March to continue the discussion.

Plus, several states already have constitutional amendments which define marriage as being only between one man and one woman. Hawaii, Alaska, and I think at least one other.

[sangh0]

50. I switched State and Fed in my previous post

my bad. Thanks for making me aware of it

[Forkboy]

58. Funny,when you make a mistake it's just ,"my bad"

when I make a mistake it's dishonesty. :eyes:

[sangh0]

59. Have you admitted to making a mistake?

That's the difference Forkboy.

[Forkboy]

62. Yes,I just did

and have in the past also.

On the other hand,this is the first time I've EVER see you admit it.

[sangh0]

63. You did?

I don't see it

[Forkboy]

66. In the other thread

figure it out.

[sangh0]

81. Yeah, right

I believe ya!

[Forkboy]

134. so? who gives a shit?

believe whatever floats your boat :shrug:

[Sideways]

106. Hey Fork Those Of Us Who Read The Small Print

Have figured it out. If a so and so is going to be obtuse we know why. YEAH we know why.....

[Forkboy]

135. Thanks Mary

I've gotten enough PMs to know many dont buy this poster's regular doses of BS :)

[emulatorloo]

48. No Different? Then Bush is for Civil Unions and Partnership Rights? COOL!

thanks! I did not know that!

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/glbt/

John Kerry believes that same-sex couples should be granted rights, including access to pensions, health insurance, family medical leave, bereavement leave, hospital visitation, survivor benefits, and other basic legal protections that all families and children need.  He has supported legislation to provide domestic partners of federal employees the benefits available to spouses of federal employees.  He was one of 14 Senators -- and the only one up for reelection in 1996 -- to oppose the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).

[MurikanDemocrat]

36. KERRY HAS ALREADY ISSUED A STATEMENT FOR THIS

This issue was hashed over 3 weeks ago

Here's the statement

"Well, it depends entirely on the language of whether it permits civil union and partnership or not. I'm for civil union. I'm for partnership rights.

"I think what ought to condition this debate is not the term marriage as much as the rights that people are afforded," Kerry continued. "Obviously under the Constitution of the United States you need equal protection under the law. And I think equal protection means the rights that go with it. I think the word marriage kind of gets in the way of the whole debate, to be honest with you, because marriage to many people is obviously what is sanctified by a church. It's sacramental. Or by a synagogue or by a mosque or by whatever religious connotation it has. Clearly there's a separation of church and state here. ... Marriage is a separate institution. I think marriage is under the church, between a man and a woman, and I think there's a separate meaning to it."

A Record of Working on Behalf of Gay and Lesbian Americans

With a 100% rating from the Human Rights Campaign since 1995, John Kerry is a powerful voice in the ongoing fight for civil rights for gay and lesbian Americans.

Ending Discrimination
One of John Kerry’s first acts as a U.S. Senator, in 1985, was to introduce a bill prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. He supports passage of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, and has adopted a nondiscrimination policy for his Congressional offices based on sexual orientation and gender identity.

HIV/AIDS Funding
John Kerry cosponsored the first Ryan White Comprehensive AIDS Resources Emergency Act (CARE) - which represents the largest discretionary federal investment in treating individuals with HIV and AIDS. Kerry also sponsored the Vaccines for the New Millennium Act, aimed at boosting contributions to the International AIDS Vaccine Initiative, a non-profit group working to promote development of an HIV vaccine in 2000. Kerry introduced the U.S. Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, TB, and Malaria Act, which would increase the U.S. government’s funding of international HIV/AIDS efforts from approximately $1.7 billion in 2003 to $1.9 billion in 2004. This effort led to the unanimous passage in May 2003 the United States Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, TB, and Malaria Act of 2003. AIDS activists characterized Kerry as one of Congress’s top leaders on HIV/AIDS policy.

Preventing Hate Crimes
John Kerry is an original cosponsor of the Hate Crimes Prevention bill, which would extend federal jurisdiction over serious, violent hate crimes. These would include crimes motivated by sexual orientation. Hate crimes rose a disturbing 3.5% from 1999 to 2000.

Protecting Gay and Lesbian Families
John Kerry believes that same-sex couples should be granted rights, including access to pensions, health insurance, family medical leave, bereavement leave, hospital visitation, survivor benefits, and other basic legal protections that all families and children need. He has supported legislation to provide domestic partners of federal employees the benefits available to spouses of federal employees. He was one of 14 Senators -- and the only one up for reelection in 1996 -- to oppose the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).

Lifting the Ban on Gays in the Military
John Kerry opposed the Clinton Administration’s “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Policy” He was one of a few senators to testify before the Senate Armed Services Committee and call on the President to rescind the ban on gay and lesbian service members.

Support for Civil Unions
John Kerry supports same-sex civil unions so that gay couples can benefit from the the health benefits, inheritance rights, or Social Security survivor benefits guaranteed for heterosexual couples.


http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/glbt

[Paulie]

39. BS

He should NOT be for making any amendments to the constitution on this issue. It's TOTAL BS that he would even consider it!

[MurikanDemocrat]

43. What he did is toss a political hot potato back in their lap is all

Those who want a Constitutional Amendment don't give a shit about equal rights. They aren't going to go to all that trouble to insure gays get equal rights to civil unions, now are they. :D

It was a pretty clever move on Kerry's part.

[Paulie]

53. No, it looks weak

It's not bold to say "I'll look at the wording". It's bold to say "I will not support DENYING rights in the Constitution. It's wrong, just like I link gay "marriage" is wrong."

But I honestly don't think he has the guts to do it.

[sangh0]

119. "I will vote against such an amendment if it comes to the Senate floor."

Does it still look weak?

[Forkboy]

40. Thank you for providing the actual quote

[Snivi Yllom]

42. that's not a yes or a no

There is no "John Kerry supports/is against a costitutional ammendment to ban gay marriages" anywhere in there.

Get back to me when he has that.

[sangh0]

52. Get back when there's an amendment to say "Yes or No" to

Until then, you're asking Kerry to judge something that doesn't exist.

[Paulie]

55. The idea exists

And that it should be a NO.

[sangh0]

57. Ideas aren't legislation or amendments

try again

[RetroLounge]

99. No Duh, but they start that way

and if Kerry waits to get an opinion based on the finger-in-the-wind method he usually uses until the Legislation or amendment exists, it will be too late as usual, and he will end up voting for it, then saying he was fooled.

[sangh0]

100. "I will vote against such an amendment if it comes to the Senate floor."

That was in Kerry's statement. How's that for an opinion?

[Snivi Yllom]

136. WRONG WRONG WRONG

here is a quote from Kerry YESTERDAY

"I believe... that marriage is between a man and a woman. That's my belief. If the amendment provides for partnership and civil union... that would be a good amendment."

[sangha]

143. If, If, If, If, If

Maybe Kerry should take a position on monkeys flying out of a pig's ass.

[Snivi Yllom]

67. why can't he get ahead of it?

It's obvious Kerry could take a position on the issue but chooses not to.

How hard is it to say "I will never support a constitutional ban that creates a federal ban on gay marriage."?

[sangh0]

82. Why should he get ahead of it?

IMO it's better if he lets Bush* appear intolerant

[Snivi Yllom]

105. that's right

It's better for Bush to define him on the issue...

:eyes:

[sangh0]

108. "I will vote against such an amendment if it comes to the Senate floor."

That's what Kerry said today. Is that how Bush* defines Kerry?

[BL_Zebub]

83. You're waiting for a solid answer from John Kerry??

I'll be coaching a National Hockey League franchise down here before that happens. :evilgrin:

[sangh0]

109. "I will vote against such an amendment if it comes to the Senate floor"

Not solid enough for you?

BTW, how's the coaching job going?

[Snivi Yllom]

41. he has no choice

He has to say something and he can't offer a third position on a yes or no issue.

Then again......

[sangh0]

46. "Yes or no"?? Yes or no on WHAT?

There is no amendment offered besides the one the Repukes have written and Kerry has said no to that one. As far as any other amendment, one can't decide on something that doesn't yet exist

[janx]

54. Then again... n/t

[tobius]

64. This is the problem Kerry runs into-

He has been so mindful of always covering all sides of an issue, that anyone can look at what he has said and think he is on their side.

Unfortunately, this opens him up to Rove who will target each issue and try to get him to give a yes/no answer on each. Lawyerly explanations don't make the average voter comfortable.

[sangh0]

68. Nice fantasy

Unfortunately, this opens him up to Rove who will target each issue and try to get him to give a yes/no answer on each

You do realize that it will be Bush*, not Rove, who will be debating Kerry, don't you? Do you really think Bush* has the skills to debate Kerry and beat him?

[tobius]

76. The same was said about Richards and Gore

"misunderestimated"


The debates will be important, but I was referring to the campaign strategy. --"Kerry voted against the first Iraq war but for the second"- we know his explanations, but when the average voter listens to it, it sounds like "pontificating".

[sangh0]

85. Changing your story?

Before, ROve was going to demand Yes or No answers. Now it's they will accuse him of waffling, which they are already doing, and which Kerry has already responded to.

[tobius]

98. same story

It's ok if you feel Kerry isn't vulnerable to the charge of fence-sitting.

Unfortunately when the Senate votes -it's up or down, aye or nay, yes or no. And I, like others, see that there are potential contradictions that can be exploited by bush and rove. You may not agree, but I believe your responses illustrate how easy it can be to try and point out contradictions even when they don't exist.

[sangh0]

101. I will vote against such an amendment if it comes to the Senate floor.

Is that "Nay" enough?

[tobius]

120. yes

much better.

He is for civil unions and against marriage for gays, which I still think is pandering because he knows that stopping gay marriage is currently unconstitutional.

[slinkerwink]

73. SO FAR---NO reply from Kerry to the Bush speech TODAY......

Yes, it is very telling...

[sangh0]

84. Nice try but YOU'RE WRONG, again

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x392340

[SidDithers]

86. Don't think you had the link you wanted.

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0224b.html

Sid

[NewYorkerfromMass]

88. What's great about this statement of Kerry's is he blows the whistle

on Bush trying to change the debate from the real issues.

[sangh0]

102. Thanks

I scwewed up the link

[Scott Lee]

94. He's trying to figure out how to speak to it out of both sides

of his mouth, Slink. You know, to save his ass. Again.

[MaineDem]

116. You just didn't wait long enough.

That's pretty telling in itself.

[RummyTheDummy]

140. What does it tell you Slinky?

Does it tell you Kerry is an evil cretin? Or does it tell you that he has no chance to get your precious vote? Why not cut the horse shit and just admit Kerry never had a chance to get your vote in the first place and the gay marriage issue is just an excuse to whine like a stuck pig.

It's all too obvious.

[West Coast Democrat]

89. Bush wants to make a larger issue out of this....

Most people aren't that interested in a constitutional ban one way or the other. I don't think Kerry should play into Karl's wedge issue plan.

[Nicholas_J]

93. He alreadyt did

Told Bush to stick to the issues of the economy and national security, stop trying to turn gay marraige into a wedge issue, and leave it to the states like the consitutution insists it should.

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0224b.html

[SidDithers]

96. So I guess it IS telling...

Just not what the original poster thought it would tell.

Sid

[sangh0]

103. I wonder if the original author will tell us

what Kerry's strong response tells us?

[Nicholas_J]

113. Kerry was a lawyer

A prosecutor and a very good one. He already knows the DOMA is actually unconstitutional and will eventually be thrown out (these things grind exceedingly slow in the courts). Look at what is happening across the nation. It took one state to declare marriage at the state level as the only real solution to the problem of denying legal rights to gay unions and across the entire nation gays and those political fugures who support them have started to defy state marriage laws. I beleive what we are going to soon see is a separation of church and state issue crop up, marriage being moved out of the doimain of civil society, and civil unions be the only available form of union at the government level.The issue will become very clear in front of courts. Marriage has been a religious ritual for millenia, and state involvement in it questionable. Civil Union is another thing entirely, a legal status, defined and supported by the state. The only solution is to declare marriages null and void at the state level, and replace them with non differntiated civil union status. Which will drive the religious right crazy, but be acceptable to those with religious conviction who are less inflexible.

[emulatorloo]

104. “I believe President Bush is wrong."

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0224b.html

“I believe President Bush is wrong. All Americans should be concerned when a President who is in political trouble tries to tamper with the Constitution of the United States at the start of his reelection campaign.

“This President can’t talk about jobs. He can’t talk about health care. He can’t talk about a foreign policy, which has driven away allies and weakened the United States, so he is looking for a wedge issue to divide the American people.

“While I believe marriage is between a man and a woman, for 200 years, this has been a state issue. I oppose this election year effort to amend the Constitution in an area that each state can adequately address, and I will vote against such an amendment if it comes to the Senate floor.

“I believe the best way to protect gays and lesbians is through civil unions. I believe the issue of marriage should be left to the states, and that the President of the United States should be addressing the central challenges where he has failed – jobs, health care, and our leadership in the world rather than once again seeking to drive a wedge by toying with the United States Constitution for political purposes.”

[Hav]

122. Btw

Why did you only demand a response from Kerry exclusively and not from Edwards?
Not that I have anything against Edwards but as you prefer Edwards over Kerry I would assume that Edwards position would be more important for you. Or aren't you really interested in his positions at all?
Very telling, indeed.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

124. It's all about

Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry

[Hav]

126. ..

That strategy often ends in a "waterloo"...
As witnessed in this thread.

[sangh0]

127. So is SLINKERWINK happy now?

:shrug:

[slinkerwink]

128. I'm partially happy, but I disagree with him on civil unions---it should

be gay marriage. BTW, why did you put my name in caps?

[sangh0]

130. You don't like equal protections for civil unions?

How does Dean and Edwards feel about that?

[slinkerwink]

131. I think civil unions classifies gays as second-place citizens

and still doesn't give all the 1,049 rights that married couples have.

[sangh0]

132. Gee, I never heard you say that when you were supporting Dean

who also does not support gay marriages. He's "uncomfortable" with the politics of gay marriage

You don't seem to have a problem with Edwards, who you've been supporting on DU, even though he is against gay marriages.

[slinkerwink]

133. I don't support Edwards---I'm supporting Dean in the primaries

and I don't agree with Dean's position either.

[sangha]

144. You support Dean but not his policy on gay marriage?

So it's OK that Dean wants to deny people their civil rights, but not OK when Kerry and Edwards want the same thing?

[DrFunkenstein]

129. I Wondered The Same Thing

Kerry knocked this out of the park. I'm sure that the Kerry-bashing will end any minute now...

Any minute now...

Any minute...

[Scott Lee]

137. Two statements - one out of each side of his mouth

[NicRic]

142. the right looking for a wedge issuse !

I think the Dems need to keep putting the economy and jobs on the front line of election year issuses and not let the repugs define the issuses ! Just like when Clinton beat smirks dear old dad , "its still the economy stupid" To keep the gay vote Kerry only needs to ask them ,who would you trust more to be fair ,bush or I . Thats an easy ? to answer ! Frist things frist ,lets get the idiot out of office by showing what a miserable failure he has truely been. Then we can deal with these wedge issuses without election year politic's getting in the way !