A question for those of you who claim Dean is still in. If Dean is still

[Maddy McCall]

in, then why did he withdraw from campaigning? Was he afraid he would lose in his home state of Vermont? Why didn't he at least stay in until he had ONE win in his column--Vermont (although I am not certain he would have carried it)?

Is it because he was running out of money? His campaign was in debt, so wouldn't it stand to reason that a campaign that has NO funds is not a viable campaign?

Is it because he saw the writing on the walls and knew he would not receive the nomination? If this is the case, and he sees this, then why don't some Dean supporters here?

How can you say he is "still in" if he himself said he was out? Was he embarrassed to lose even more states while actively campaigning, therefore, any showing when he was not actively campaigning would look good?

Is Dean talking to his supporters in code words that the rest of us don't understand? Out means in, not campaigning means still in the race, and support the eventual nominee means Dean will win at the convention. Please, Dean supporters, explain the logic of "Dean is still in" to the rest of DUers who are as perplexed by this assertion as I am.

A side note: I have no problems with folks who want to support him in the primaries. However, I think that anyone who writes in his name in the GE is a Bush enabler--and that goes for all candidates' supporters.

[mandyky]

1. Dean and Dean's supporters worked very hard to get

him on the ballot in all 50 states. He never gave up, he stopped campaigning, because the Unions and other groups needed to released, plus Dems backing him in DC were getting black balled. Read the Dean blog, no code to it - he's not in and not out.

[Maddy McCall]

5. Why did the unions need to be released?

I thought they basically left on their own.

[mandyky]

6. AFSME left prior to WI

UPAT and SEIU were going to, so Dean had to do something. Like I said go read the blog if you wanna know the jest of it.

[Maddy McCall]

10. The Dean blog doesn't tell me why some DUers say Dean is still in

It is stated at DU by DU Dean supporters; therefore I am asking the Dean supporters at DU why they say he is still in.

Thank you for responding, though. :-)

[mandyky]

13. Obviously you either didn't or

or can't read it. It is pretty plain. He never said he dropped out, he said he suspended campaigning. He hasn't endorsed anyone, and he's working on continuing our movement to take the party and the country back.

[Maddy McCall]

16. Is "suspending campaigning" some kind of limbo between actively

campaigning and being out?


And, on edit, let me add that if I wanted to consult a Dean blog, I would, but I am not a member of DFA--I am a member of DU, and I want DU Dean supporters' take on this.

[mandyky]

23. Apparently so

He wants his supporters to have the choice to vote for him. The drop out stuff comes from the same media that took pleasure in doing him in. I bet in a couple of states on Supper Tuesday, he might get 10% or more (hopefully 15%). In May here in KY, I'll vote Dean in our primary.

Actually I had to listen, read and think awhile before I figured out what he was saying. I am hoping Dean sticks around in case shrub and crew do in Kerry and Edwards in the coming months.

[Maddy McCall]

25. I hadn't thought about that...

so he is thinking that if some kind of scandal brings down Kerry and Edwards he will still be viable?

I guess that is as good as any reason for remaining in campaign limbo.

BTW, I do appreciate you discussing this with me. Instead of me having a gut "bullshit" reaction everytime I see a DUer state that Dean is still in, I wanted to hear the logic behind it.

I see your point, and I appreciate you taking the time to discuss it.

:-)

[mandyky]

27. No problem discussing

I think we Dean supporters sometimes feel like people like in your post are taunting us. I can discuss almost anything with almost anybody, as long as I don't feel like I am being or gonna get a sucker punch. No offense to you but the vultures around here have us a bit defensive...

[Eloriel]

32. It's primarily about delegates

At the point he dropped out (and to this day, I think) he has the 2nd most delegates -- more than Edwards.

Many of them are committed delegates which means they are not free to go to other candidates until or unless Dean releases them. The more delegates he takes into the convention, the more influence he will have over the platform or other details. He woulnd't mind having MORE delegates.

If he were ready to release his delegates, he'd probably endorse someone. Because he wants more delegates, I rather doubt he'll endorse anyone (and thereby subtly or even explicitly encourage his supporters to support the endorsed candidate) until the nominee is clear. Why would he want to split his own vote?

And after what Kerry did to him, I rather doubt there'll be an explicit kerry endorsement if he's the nominee until sometime much later, like at or after the convention and then only because his main goal is defeating Bush. I could be wrong. Dean is a better person than I; I tend to hold a grudge.

[Cassandra]

2. I will vote for Dean in the primary and...

the Democratic candidate in the GE. I would like Dean to have as much influence as possible in the convention. Keynote speaker?

[buckeye1]

3. How do you write in on a touch screen?

n/t

[Maddy McCall]

7. excellent question. anyone?

[Jim Sagle]

4. Very few of us will be anything but ABB in the GE.

You're beating a horse that if not dead, is on life support.

[Maddy McCall]

8. The point of this isn't to ask if you are ABB, but why some...

dean supporters say dean is still in.

[EXE619K]

11. Dean is not "in"?

I'm sure that Super Tuesday ballots will dispute your claims!

[Maddy McCall]

19. Being on the ballots does not mean he is "still in". Clark will be on...

ballots, and if he is on the Mississippi ballot, I maight cast my primary vote for him. In my OP, I said I didn't fault anyone for how they vote in the primary, by the way.

BUT, Clark withdrew and I don't have iny illusions about him still being in.

My question remains: "Why do Dean supporters believe Dean is "still in?" And the follow up questions are in the OP, if you would care to answer any.

[EXE619K]

26. Perhaps, that's the difference between Dean people.....

and the supporters of candidate X.

We, as the Governor as mentioned in his withdrawl speech, will take our delegates that represents our message of re-form in the Democratic Party's convention and that's what we are going to do.

With Dean, or without.

Maybe, that's the difference between the Clark campaign and Dean's camapign.

We don't fold our tents, just because we LOST.

Some people, just don't get it...I think.

Just my opinion though.

:D

[Jim Sagle]

28. Because he is - he still wants our votes. He'll get mine.

[EXE619K]

9. So, let's get this straight....

The primaries are NOT over...is it?

If Kerry cannot beat Bush in November(and there is a chance that he will not), does that mean Kerry supporters are "Bush Enablers" because they are "enabling" Bush to win another term in the White House by fronting a weak candidate?

It apparent that YOU seemed to have a problem with people wishing to vote for their choice in the primaries.

You start out the thread by questioning the motives of Dean voters in the primaries with many "negative connotations", yet, towards the end of your thread, you indicate that you do not have a problem with their choice (whatever they may be) in the primaries?

That makes sense.

[KFC]

18. Democrats have voted for who they want: Kerry and Edwards

All the Dean supporters were free to vote for Dean. There were just not very many. 0 for 17 should tell you something.

BTW, the original poster had a problem with writing in Dean in the GE, not the primaries. Rightly so.

[Maddy McCall]

21. Thanks for responding KFC...

I couldn't see that message (won't say why as it may be against the rules for me to mention why) but EXACTLY...I have NO PROBLEM with anyone writing in or voting for any candidate in the primary.

Edit: have cleared my ignore list so I can hear all opinions on this.

[EXE619K]

30. Then, why does the poster....

question the intentions of the Dean supporters in the first place?

If the true intentions of the thread were to find out why Dean supporters are voting in the primaries...why not state that as the original message?

It's pretty obvious that the poster in question has a long term hostility towards a "single" candidate..and that's obvious.

This thread, like many other threads posted by this individual has only one purpose, and that(given the persons long history of posts) is obvious.

[Old and In the Way]

31. Relax, as Ralph Nader would say.

I read the post and I see no hidden meanings....what, questions can't be asked to Dean supporters on board? I think your sensitivity shields are set way too high.... :-)

[Cheswick2.0]

12. LOL

good try

[unfrigginreal]

14. What will you do if the polls show Bush with a 20 pt. lead on election day

Just curious, if we got to the end of October and Mr. Kerry appeared to be destined for a landslide loss, would you consider another route? A write-in campaign? Or just take it on the chin.

[EXE619K]

15. And what a "chin" that will be!

:D

[Maddy McCall]

24. A write-in campaign effort on election day would be a moot point.

To be a write-in candidate, you have to be affiliated with a party not on the ballot and you have to submit paperwork to be a write-in candidate or the write-in vote won't be counted.

Moot point--brush up on state and federal election laws and you will know this.

[unfrigginreal]

29. Then we should get busy submitting the paperwork.

It would be nice to have an insurance policy for the coming Kerry disaster.

[KoKo]

17. He said he hoped to get enough Delegates to make a difference at

Convention. I will vote for him in NC Primary or Caucuses since the Repugs have corrupted NC's Primary Voting, it may be Caucuses but not until April.

I have his "bumpersticker" in my rear window, and if anyone wants to laugh at me or think I'm a loser for doing that, then fine.

I will vote for him because it's my protest vote. I'm not into third parties for this election, but I'm not going to take DLC pushing Kerry
in my face lying down. I feel Dem Party needs reform and I won't give up my principles until after the Dem Party Farce in Boston and vote finally for the ABB Candidate. I will go down kicking and screaming until I am forced to vote for Kerry or Edwards but I won't give money and won't put a yard sign out.

Why should I? Until they talk about "Selection 2000 and the Iraq War and the Policy of Pre-emption or Pax Americana, then how can I support them?

After that, I will work for a NEW Dem Party focused on Populism.

I will not consider myself a Democrat again until the party has a house cleaning starting with Tom Daschle and the rest of his "on the dole" leadership.

[Maddy McCall]

20. "make a difference"

What kind of difference? Really, I am serious. What kind of difference do you hope he will make in Boston?

(And thank you for honestly engaging in conversation with me. :-) )

I don't blame you for leaving your Dean sticker on your car. If my Clark stickers would have ever arrived, I would put several on my car and in my office at the uni...and probably on my briefcase--hey, if football players can wear nike headbands, why can't I do a little subliminal advertising in the classroom? ;-)

Again, I don't see anything wrong with voting for him in the primary, but I don't see how this equates to him still being in the race.

[5thGenDemocrat]

33. Hey j

I still have a few Clark stickers here at the house (courtesy of DTH). PM me and I'll mail 'em right out.
John
Like, tomorrow, I mean.

[Maddy McCall]

36. You are KIDDING!

Really???

[DebJ]

22. Go KoKo01. I'll be right there with you!

[madfloridian]

34. Clark and Dean have suspended campaigns.

Clark can still draw delegates as well. So technically he is in the same position as Dean.

You really truly despise all things Dean, don't you?

[Capn Sunshine]

35. Here's a DU Dean supporters take for you

Beacuse if John Kerry is the "front runner" it would be stupid to withdraw when the chances are better than even his campaign will collapse under its own weight,probably by April, being primarily composed of meaningless contradictory rhetoric and overt press favoritism fueled by special interest money to whatever end that implies.

Or maybe there's another reason only Clark has actually quit.

Got it?

[Scott Lee]

37. It's called a "suspended campaign".

You erroneously claim that he has "withdrawn" from the campaign. There is a difference. Remember too that Dean still has the second largest number of delegates running up to convention.

You're welcome.

[Zomby Woof]

38. a distant, very distant second

So distant as to fall into 3rd or 4th after March 2. How the Almighty hath fallen! Hell, at least Edwards and Clark both won a primary. Dean = Zero.

But back in November you said he would win, and we should accept this fact, and we are either going to slip into Dean hate or Bush hate.... :boring:

Back to your parents' basement, for another exciting webcast of the Red Fist Of Doom!

[madfloridian]

39. You know, we have explained it as best we can.

Your way of saying things to humiliate Dean supporters, which you do a whole lot, has become extremely personal in its nature.

It does no good to explain anything anymore. Kerry is the nominee, and he has been the nominee. We know that. Bucking the system that is so powerful does not work. We know that.

Since he is the nominee, then why is it so important what the Dean supporters do? I do not see where we have a voice, and if there is one it will be soon stilled.

Your methods of embarrassing us are really obvious now, and I see no reason for you to do that.

I guess you think it will convert us to something or the other?

Most of us are good Americans, but we are not being treated that way.

We are properly embarrassed now.

[Maddy McCall]

40. In tribute to the immortal ForrestGump:

Wah fucking wah!

When you are finished with your pity party and want to engage in true discussion, fine, but so far your only explanations have been, "Jchild is a meanie; she's picking on the Deanies!"

Not much substance for discussion. I suggest you take lessons from mandyky above--she offered much substance and has clarified why she feels this way. I respect her for that.

When you have something to add, I will respond. Until then...

[madfloridian]

41. Oooh! Guess we need more humiliation.

:spank:

[Maddy McCall]

42. Nah, you don't need it...

but you sure seem to want it.

[madfloridian]

44. And you do love dishing it out.

I have tried to figure out why people here think that is a good way to act toward us.

Actually most of us are good Americans and want to do what is best for our country.

Yet, on this forum, many think that treating us as kool-aid drinking children is the way to handle it.

I absolutely refuse to tell anyone what I plan to do about the primaries now or the GE in November. It is my business as an American, and I care about my country deeply.

I do remain in shock and awe at the hatred toward us here. No, it was not started by us. Saying it over and over will never make that true.

[madfloridian]

43. Here are Dean's own words on the subject.

They were posted here several times, and they are quite clear.

SNIP..."DEAN: I am no longer actively pursuing the presidency. We will, however, continue to build a new organization, using our enormous grassroots network, to continue the effort to transform the Democratic Party and to change our country. And I...

(APPLAUSE)

And speaking to all of you and all of the hundreds of thousands of people around America who are going to get this word, either by the establishment media...

(LAUGHTER)

... or the Internet, I have some things that I specifically want to ask of our supporters.

First, keep active in the primary. Sending delegates to the convention only continues to energize our party. Fight on in the caucuses. We are on the ballots. Use your network to send progressive delegates to the convention in Boston. We are not going away. We are staying together, unified -- all of us.

(APPLAUSE)

Secondly, Dean for America will be converted into a new grassroots organization. We need everybody to stay involved. We are -- as we always have -- going to look at what you had to say about which directions we ought to be going in, and what we ought to continue to do together.

We are determined to keep this entire organization as vibrant as it has been through this campaign. There are a lot of ways to make change. We are leaving one track, but we are going on another track that will take back America for ordinary people again.

(APPLAUSE)

Third, there have been a lot of people who have decided to run for office locally as a result of this campaign.

We want to encourage you out there in the grassroots effort, run for office, support candidates like you who run for office, and we will use this enormous organization to support you as you run so we will change the face of democracy so that it represents ordinary Americans once again; government that will not be bought and sold.
(MY note: Groups are already in place to help these candidates both financially and publicity wise.)

(APPLAUSE)

Let me be clear, I will not run as an independent or third party candidate and I urge my supporters not to be tempted to support any effort by another candidate.

http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/003777.html

[joshcryer]

45. Those words are quite revealing.

Thanks.