Day 60: Still No Apology From Barack Obama for Donnie McClurkin

[FredScuttle]

As Democrats, you should be disgusted that this "progressive" candidate welcomed an "ex-gay" clown bigot to headline his campaign event and gave him a microphone and a stage to spew homophobic filth to a receptive audience of bigots and morons in South Carolina. Shame!



http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/10/29/post_159.html

[BeyondGeography]

1. Day 60: Fred still looking for a life

[Fried Bread]

3. And he still hasn't found one.

[FredScuttle]

8. Welcome to DU!

n/t

[Raster]

213. Well, aren't you the special one. At least Fred has the decency to recognize hate and

pandering to hate and call a candidate for the highest office in the land on his hateful bullshit. And you, Mr. 90-something posts, how the fuck would you know what Fred has found or not? Oh, btw, welcome to DU!

[Clintonista2]

388. Welcome!

[TankLV]

447. ANOTHER smashing success at obama's "reaching out" strategy!

another tombstone...

my my my...

[FredScuttle]

7. At least I can hold my head up and say that I never hired an "ex-gay" clown to host any of my to-dos

n/t

[BeyondGeography]

11. How do you know?

[FredScuttle]

15. Key differences between me and Barack Obama:

I never hired, embraced, defended and tolerated an "ex-gay" clown to host any gathering that had my name on it.

I never filmed a video welcoming this "ex-gay" clown to my event

I never tolerated an "ex-gay" clown on a stage at an event with my name on it screaming "God delivered me from homosexuality"

Had I ever had an "ex-gay" clown spew homophobic filth on stage at an event which had my name on it, I would have issued a public apology in minutes (not hours....not days....not weeks....not months...)

I have never defended, minimized or excused a filthy bigot like this "ex-gay" clown by saying he "does not want to change gays and lesbians who are happy in their lives"

[BeyondGeography]

21. Who are you voting for, anyway?

[FredScuttle]

22. Why does it matter?

So you can pull up something "my" candidate did and say "neener-neener....your candidate is a fuck-up as well"?

For your information, I'm undecided. HRC is on the bottom of my list. I was considering Obama before this insulting pander, but no more. He can take Pastor Donnie and the two of them can go fuck themselves.

[BeyondGeography]

25. Nah, just curious

I applaud your stance on HRC. Here's some folks in the Bay Area who are sticking with Obama:

http://www.ebar.com/news/article.php?sec=news&article=2558

[FredScuttle]

28. "Both the senator...and everyone in the campaign found out four or five days before the concert"

Obama was read the riot act by the president of the Human Rights Campaign five days before the concert...and he chose to ignore this advisement:

http://www.hrc.org/7949.htm

I really have no concern who Obama puts up front to shore up his LGBT bonafides at this late date...what concerns me is a Democratic candidate who, in the year 2007, welcomes a bigot to headline his campaign event and then, not only refuses to apologize for the hateful bile spewed by this clown, but goes on to defend this clown.

[BeyondGeography]

29. Yeah, yeah, I know

Not everyone in the LGBT community is as broken up about it as you though.

[FredScuttle]

32. I'm a straight Democrat and I'm absolutely insulted that Obama would embrace a clownish bigot

n/t

[BeyondGeography]

36. Straights for Obama continues to build momentum as well

[FredScuttle]

44. Not half as quickly as "Ex-Gay Clowns for Obama"

I hear the South Carolina chapter is going gangbusters.

[nightrain]

208. but many are, and see through Obama's bs (nt)

[Fried Bread]

65. Howard Dean HIMSELF said he wanted bigots to be part of the Democratic Party

THAT is ten times worse, as he himself actually said it. "I want southern whites with confederate flag decals to vote for us." You conveniently forget.

[FredScuttle]

75. No, you have it completely wrong

Howard Dean was saying that white Southerners, who had been reliably voting Republican for the past 40 years, were voting against their self-interest. He was saying that if these folks with the Confederate flag and the shotgun in the pickup were truly concerned about affordable health care, good jobs, decent education for their children and a whole host of other kitchen-table topics, they should vote Democratic.

Nice try.

[Hestia]

171. You act as if having a pick-up and a shotgun/rifle in the back window is a bad thing n/t

[Ken Burch]

199. If it is, I damn sure ain't gonna say it to the guy with the shotgun.

n/t.

[FredScuttle]

241. It's not

and that wasn't what Dean was saying either.

[LordJFT]

295. Dean also wanted the democratic platform saying democrats believe marriage is between men & women

[mitchtv]

109. what tripe

take things out of context do we?

[ruggerson]

60. Fred is angry at Obama

but a lot of Obama supporters, including you BG, seem to respond by making flippant remarks to the *individuals* who are angry with your candidate. Fred didn't do anything wrong. He's incredibly pissed at a man running for President and is expressing that anger. If you disagree with what he's saying, then try to legitimately defend Barack.

But to dump on people for being validly pissed off at a politician is a bit counter productive. This is what our country is all about. We're SUPPOSED to be pissed off at politicans and tell them about it when they fuck up.

[College Liberal]

89. Lol

I agree.

[LostinVA]

237. Quel surprise

[TankLV]

446. Another tombstone - wow - obama's homophobic bigots sure get a lot of SUPPORT here!

His "reaching out" is a SMASHING SUCCESS!

[LostinVA]

236. Day 60: Fred still striving for equal rights for all Americans

[DemKR]

276. do you really need to engage in character attacks?

[jackson_dem]

350. Pathetic response

[avrdream]

2. Don't hold your breath.

BO is giving up the gay vote in order to get certain groups of ethnic voters.

[ruggerson]

4. I suggest this thread stays permanently kicked until Obama apologizes

or the Iowa caucus.

Whichever comes first.

[wiley]

5. It's a lack of character issue. Just let it go.

[FredScuttle]

6. No, it's an "insult to the LGBT community and every Democrat who values civil rights" issue

and, thanks for your concern, but I won't let it go

[wiley]

20. OK

I personally know of no more people who support Obama at this point for many reasons, including the one you so passionately cite.

[PurityOfEssence]

161. It's an absence of character issue: to hell with other minorities.

This strikes at the very core of what leftists are all about: inclusion and acceptance. What's worse is that this guy's claiming to be more hopeful and more inclusive than the rest, while he's undeniably taken a consistent series of well-documented steps allying himself with religious bigotry, racism and homophobia.

Candidates get the most heat when they violate their own stated principles, and this is precisely what he's done by allying himself with the forces of prejudice while claiming to be the most inclusive. The sheer incongruity of it all is discordant to all but those with an unshakeable bias for the man, and defense of these actions are nothing short of an evocation of privilege.

[wiley]

220. To the point!

[wiley]

222. Honestly, one of the most important posts I have read on this board

or anywhere, actually.

[MuseRider]

227. Excellent.

"and defense of these actions are nothing short of an evocation of privilege." Wow. Perfectly stated.

[Hobarticus]

239. Most excellent...

Great post!!!

[FredScuttle]

240. Thank you for such a powerful statement

I could post 1,000 times and not come close to capturing the essence of this issue as cogently as you. Bravo!

[awaysidetraveler]

455. Respectfully, I disagree: Obama's for civil unions that act like legal marraiges.

He's spoken out in favor of civil unions that act in all legal respects like marraiges--including the right to adopt children as a couple. He used that platform to get elected in 2004, when he debated and defeated a real bigot.

Now he's trying to compromise with gay rights activists.

"A gay South Carolina pastor, Andy Sidden, gave the prayer that opened the event, a compromise the Obama campaign put together after McClurkin's appearance was attacked by gay rights activists."

And you guys aren't giving him credit for trying? C'mon, he's trying. You might not like how he's trying, but he is trying to offer a compromise that would actually and substantially improve your rights: civil unions that act like legal marraiges, and adoption rights for gays and lesbian couples.

[MannyGoldstein]

9. Day 1,000-Something:Still No Apology From Clinton On Starting War

I know, I know: war, shmore. It's only a lot of dead people and money.

[FredScuttle]

10. Absolutely...

because Obama has stopped the war in his votes in the Senate over the past 2 years...oh, wait a minute.

[JohnLocke]

12. (Removed on edit.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/11/AR2005111101623.html

[MannyGoldstein]

16. You're Correct - I'm Sorry

I had a brain fart.

[JohnLocke]

18. It's OK.

If you want to edit your post, I will remove mine.

[MannyGoldstein]

19. Good Idea - Done nt

[FredScuttle]

24. er......not Done

So Clinton's IWR vote excuses Obama's embrace of an "ex-gay" clown bigot?

[DemKR]

201. avoiding the topic

[annie1]

247. and Biden and Kerry and dozens of other democrats.

[Cha]

271. I don't want her fucking

apology..I want her back in the senate and if that doesn't satisfy her lust for power then she can go make speeches with bill.

hillary's had 7 years to prove herself and all she did was join the bushit lap dog service which she thought was the most politically expedient path back to the whitehouse.

[JTFrog]

405. No worries! Not much chance of your subject line happening!

Sometimes I just can't resist a good opening line. :evilgrin:

[MonkeyFunk]

13. And there's not going to be one

this horse died a long time ago. Stop beating it.

[FredScuttle]

17. Glad to see you've moved on from a titanic insult to the LGBT community

and straight Democrats like me who abhor bigotry and intolerance. Your response is precisely why I posted this thread.

[MonkeyFunk]

23. This gay person

didn't consider it a "titanic" insult. It was tone-deaf, it was dumb, it should've been handled better.

Matthew Shepherd was a titanic insult. No hate crimes bill is a titanic insult. This was a piddling affair.

[ruggerson]

26. tell that

to african american gay and lesbian kids. Who have to deal with the parents who attended this event and got their prejudices reinforced - produced by the man who would be President, no less.

[MonkeyFunk]

31. I said it was dumb

Obama shouldn't have done it.

But it wasn't the most egregious affront to gay people ever in the history of politics.

Two months after the fact, I'm hard pressed to come up with a reason to keep harping on it.

[FredScuttle]

34. Other than the fact that Obama refuses to apologize for the homophobia on his stage

yeah, other than that, nothing to see, move along...:eyes:

[MonkeyFunk]

38. Yeah, after two months

there is nothing more to see. The story has come and gone - people have judged it and made their decisions.

It really is time to move along. It just comes across as petty sniping to bring it up again and again so long after the fact.

[FredScuttle]

47. "story has come and gone"?

I didn't realize coddling and embracing bigotry had a shelf life. Drat...we should have got our licks in the 2-week time frame back in early November!

So this "moving along" crap....does it only apply to Obama? Because I swear I see Sen. Clinton get raked over the coals for votes she had years ago....and Sen. Edwards had some kind of haircut almost a year ago that people bring all the time to indicate how "unelectable" he is.

[MonkeyFunk]

50. And do you think those people

are acting like adults? Do you think they're really concerned about those issues, or do you think they're just trying to score cheap points for their primary candidate?

[ruggerson]

53. I don't think any of us are trying to score cheap points

we want the man to publicly apologize for doing this. It has ZERO to do with other candidates (other than they should be put on notice they cannot emulate what Obama has done).

[DemKR]

203. any self respecting gay man wil not support obama n/t

[JuniperLea]

326. This is true...

I've heard this many times.

[ruggerson]

41. Well reason number one

is if we don't keep harping on it until he apologizes, we are tacitly giving other Democrats permission to pull the same bullshit.

He has to admit his error and own it.

[MonkeyFunk]

43. if you insist

but maybe it would be more productive to contact Obama with your concerns rather than post about it here. You see, when it's done here, it comes across as partisan angling.

[ruggerson]

45. I already have

I was told it was "bad staff work."

[mitchtv]

106. It was cold blooded

There are few Dem Gay votes in SC, versus lots of bigoted Christian votes. After SC is over , maybe we will see an olive branch, not before.

[FredScuttle]

27. So you are filled with a sense of pride when a Democratic candidate welcomes an "ex-gay" bigot

to his stage and gives him a microphone and a stage to proclaim "God delivered (him) from homosexuality"?

How could it have been handled better, pray tell? Tell the "ex-gay" clown to cool it on the "delivered from homosexuality" tip? Ask the bigot to refrain from indulging in the virulent homophobia that the audience seemed to willing to lap up? Not film a video introducing the bigot as the star of your show?

[MonkeyFunk]

30. Are you daft?

I said it was dumb. It was a mistake.

It wasn't a "titanic" insult. Try to read what I write, then respond to that, and not to what you THINK I wrote.

[FredScuttle]

37. I read what you wrote

You don't share my estimation of how grave an insult this was....fine. You think it's a "piddling affair"....great.

I think it's an affront to all Democrats that one of our so-called "progressive" candidates hasn't apologized a full two months after one of his hand-picked entertainers at his event unleashed a 1/2 hour of bigoted nonsense.

[MonkeyFunk]

39. You said I

was filled with a sense of pride over it. That shows if you DID read what I wrote, you didn't comprehend any of it.

And as I said, you're not going to get an apology. You can sit there and stew for the rest of your life, or you can adjust.

[FredScuttle]

48. I asked if you were filled with a sense of pride at Obama welcoming a bigot into his campaign

apparently not, although you seem right willing to let bygones be bygones and excuse a candidate who embraced a bigot in a craven pander for primary votes in South Carolina.

I wouldn't have an ounce of pride about that either.

[MonkeyFunk]

51. When I say something is tone-deaf and dumb

you can read that as saying I don't take a great deal of pride in it. :eyes:

[FredScuttle]

61. A simple primer

This is tone-deaf:



This is dumb:



This is inexcusable:

[rpannier]

181. Disagree

While I don't like them...I always thought the 4 senators were good sinhers.

I don't think they're tone deaf

[FredScuttle]

242. I can't believe you're making me do this

May it please the court...I present Exhibit A: John Ashcroft with his composition, "Let The Eagle Soar"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woLQI8X2R6Y

Now, I realize this is just one quarter of the group in question, but the pernicious influence of this Goulet-wannabe has to render it a aural crime.

[College Liberal]

90. MonkeyFunk

I have gained a new found RESPECT for you. Hillary is starting to look just a little better also

MonkeyFunk, this is my Olive Branch, will you take it?

Lets be friends.... :hi:

[Dr. Strange]

100. And then what? Start talking real issues?

Hell, no!

[FredScuttle]

250. So, respect for LGBT rights isn't a "real issue"?

How's the weather in the 19th century?

[Bluebear]

343. Yes. LGBT sensibilities aren't a "real issue"

We appreciate that.

[Beausoir]

14. Obama should be deeply ashamed about his anti-gay tour. But...he remains unapologetic.

Pander. Pander.Pander.

[awaysidetraveler]

456. Please reconsider Obama.

He's spoken out in favor of civil unions that act in all legal respects like marraiges--including the right to adopt children as a couple. He used that platform to get elected in 2004, when he debated and defeated a real bigot.

Now he's trying to compromise with gay rights activists.

"A gay South Carolina pastor, Andy Sidden, gave the prayer that opened the event, a compromise the Obama campaign put together after McClurkin's appearance was attacked by gay rights activists."

Obama's trying. You might not like how he's trying, but he is trying to offer a compromise that would actually and substantially improve your rights: civil unions that act like legal marraiges, and adoption rights for gays and lesbian couples.

[Bluebear]

33. "So how many votes and how much money is a bashed gay worth to Senator Obama?"

from John Aravosis:

Obama's campaign now says that McClurkin only wants to cure the unhappy gays. (The rest of us are, I guess, fine to continue trying to kill America's children.)

From the Washington Post:

The concert was to be the highlight of this outreach and while the crowd left excited, it was clear the campaign still regarded the controversy as complicated. Aides gave reporters a three-page memo detailing McClurkin's and Obama's views on gay rights that noted in capital letters "MCCLURKIN DOES NOT WANT TO CHANGE GAYS AND LESBIANS WHO ARE HAPPY WITH THEIR LIVES AND HAS CRITICIZED CHURCH LEADERS WHO DEMONIZE HOMOSEXUALS," with quotes detailing those statements from the singer.

So David Duke's only problem, per the Obama campaign, is that he villifies the happy Jews and the happy blacks?

Keep digging, guys. Obama keeps making clear that he hasn't learned his lesson, he doesn't understand what he did wrong, and he will continue to coddle those who attack our community so long as it wins him votes and money. His own staff admitted as much to the Washington Post:

Aides to Barack Obama's who are concerned about his fortunes nationally cast his decision not to kick Donnie McClurkin off the program of a gospel concert the campaign was hosting as a principled decision, part of the Illinois senator's constant rhetoric of bringing people together even if they disagree. Aides in South Carolina cited a more obvious consideration: despite the singer's controversial comments in the past about homosexuality, which he has likened to a "curse" and said is a choice, he would be a big draw.

So how many votes and how much money is a bashed gay worth to Senator Obama?

And PS, according to the Washington Post, Obama let McClurkin emcee the event. So much for Obama's disdain for McClurkin's gay-bashing. They practically - no, literally - handed him the mic to do his damage.

http://www.americablog.com/2007/10/obama-issues-3-page-memo-explaining.html

[FredScuttle]

42. Excellent article

and, as usual, right to the heart of the matter, my friend.

[ClarkUSA]

35. *yawn*

:nopity:

[FredScuttle]

40. Glad to see a filthy bigoted speech at a Democratic fundraiser bores you

though not surprising in the least.

[ClarkUSA]

46. No, you bore me.

:nopity:

[FredScuttle]

49. Maybe I should put a Donnie McClurkin CD on

maybe that would elevate the mood




GOD DELIVERED ME FROM HOMOSEXUALITY!!!

[Bluebear]

52. 'Barack, you can't say you strongly disagree with the head of the Klan, then invite him on stage

...just 'cause he knows his way around a Johnny Cash song."

====

Among the great advice my father gave me as a child -- besides never buy tires at full price -- was that the only thing lower than a car dealer is a used car dealer, and car dealers are scum of the earth.

* Email
* Print

To paraphrase -- the only thing worse than a bigot is a black bigot...

And to take it a step further would be to include a black bigot who drapes himself in the cloth and hates in the name of the Lord.

And, yet, there is Donnie McClurkin who's planning an SRO three day stand with the brother who would be president, Barack Obama.

A lot of folks are calling McClurkin anti gay or a gay hater or a straight out homophobe 'cause he says that he's in a "war" against homosexuality, and homosexuality is a choice and gays can be fixed.

A lot like, I'm sure, Ann Coulter would tell you Jews can be perfected -- and while we're on the subject of the absurd, the Patriots can be beaten because their passing offense really can be stopped.

Anyway...

With Obama coming under fire for including a hate monger in his Compassion and Unity tour, McClurkin shot back at all the anti-hata haters and said that his comments were taken out of context.

A lot like, I'm sure, Bill O'Reilly will tell you his comments are often taken out of context.

McClurkin feeling that gays can be perfected does not come from nowhere. According to McClurkin, as a child he was raped by a male family member, which so affected him, he "became" a gay man for some 20 years before religion helped "straighten" him. I want to stress very, very emphatically that a young person being molested by ANYONE is beyond humorless. It is sick and depraved.

But as far as McClurkin becoming gay as a result, then later having ministry cure him, well...

A lot like, I'm sure, Ted Haggard would tell you a little church can cure you of the need to have your gay masseuse sell you a little meth.

According to a piece in the Chicago Trib, McClurkin now says he is straight and that his ministry is open to those who say they no longer want to live as a gay person. What he doesn't do, he says, is crusade against homosexuality.

And for the record, my house is open to all people who no longer want to be redheads. If you're a redhead, then get the F out! But I'm certainly not crusading against redheads.

And this is the guy Obama's gonna share a stage with?

In an official statement Obama has said that he "strongly disagrees" with Reverend McClurkin's views, yet he still intends to share a stage with him.

But, Barack, you can't say you strongly disagree with the head of the Klan, then invite him on stage just 'cause he knows his way around a Johnny Cash song (no disrespect to the late Johnny Cash or his family, just the first singer who popped into my head).

by John Ridley

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-ridley/donnie-mcclurkin-and-perf_b_69772.html

[Divine Discontent]

207. Self-hating gay man given the mic at Obama '08 rally to attack gay people

and this was preplanned... and not it's not going away in my community. He is on the verge of being in the "Clinton category" with me by not apologizing for this incredible insult. She's not getting my vote for many reasons, but not because of her stance on GLBT rights, that is Barack's dilemma.

He knew ahead of time that this bumbling buffoon was going to spew forth things when given the mic at Obama's rally and Barack still let him have the mic when he could have told him days in advance that he didn't agree with his very negative stance on eliminating gays from the world.

He doesn't have much time to apologize, but if he doesn't, and Edwards doesn't win the nomination, and I'm faced with voting for Barack on Hillary - I will either not be voting for the first the time in my adult life or voting 3rd party for the 1st time. I don't want the choice of the corporate candidate's favorite choice, or a man who has had to face judgment for something he cannot control in his life and would have expected him to be 10x more the leader on this than he was, it appears he will throw us to the wolves for votes...

[Rockholm]

298. Thank you for posting this BlueBear.

[Renew Deal]

54. The receptive audience of bigots AKA Democrats

Just keep that in mind while you shit on them.

[Bluebear]

55. Yes, it's always someone else being "shit on", never the gays.

Don't tell me, are we being too "sensitive", or should we "get over it"?

[ruggerson]

56. Human rights trump expedient political calculations

at least, if one has a conscience

[FredScuttle]

58. Should we heed Obama's exhortation and reach out to bigots?

Really?

I'm ALWAYS happy to shit on bigots. Mouth-breathing ignorant morons, too.

[Bluebear]

62. :chirp chirp chirp:

;)

[ruggerson]

206. you were expecting a reasoned response?

[eridani]

216. Yes, but only on issues you have in common with them, like health care and education

Bonding around shared bigotry is unneccessary and way out of line.

[FredScuttle]

249. For me, it's up to bigots to cross that bridge into the 21st century

if they want to share in the advances we're all striving for. It's not up to us to build a bridge into the past to meet bigots and ignorant reactionaries on their terms.

[eridani]

270. Not on their terms. Talk housing, education and health care

Don't bond on the grounds of shared bigotry, even indirectly.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

76. why is shitting on gays acceptable, but shtting on homophobes not?

:eyes:

[FredScuttle]

83. Because bigots vote

and, as Obama supporters here tell us on each of these threads, we need to reach out and build a bridge to the 19th century to these bigot morons because they should be given every consideration and deference that we give anyone else. You know, for the "big tent" :eyes:

[Chovexani]

165. Because we're expendable, uppity whiners

As per Obama and his Koolaid drinking supporters.

[FredScuttle]

246. Hey! You there!

Pipe down and quit yer bitching! Don't you know we have to get Saint Obama elected so we can give you whiny ingrates your rights? Just be patient and shut up! :sarcasm:

[Rockholm]

299. Who you callin' uppity Willis?

[Bluebear]

57. McClurkin's: Over one billion revisions served ("We were sold out HARD on this one, kids!")

from "Good as you" blog...

We thought we were done discussing Donnie McClurkin for a little while. But then we saw these quotes that "former homosexual" and current gay rights foes is said to have made during yesterday's controversial Obama campaign appearance:

"They accuse me of being anti-gay and a bigot," ... "We don't believe in discrimination. We don't believe in hatred, and if you do you are in the wrong place at the wrong time. That's the whole premise of God. That's the whole premise of Christ is love, love, love. But there is a side of Christ that deals in judgment, and all sin is against God."

"Don't call me a bigot or anti-gay, when I have been touched by the same feelings," ... "When I have suffered with the same feelings. Don't call me a homophobe, when I love everybody … Don't tell me that I stand up and I say vile words against the gay community because I don't. I don't speak against the homosexual. I tell you that God delivered me from homosexuality."

But you know, we don't even really know WHAT to say about this. It's the same ol' claims from McClurkin, wherein he acts as if those who are criticizing him for calling homosexuality a curse, declaring war on gays, or accusing gays of trying to kill America's children are pulling those ideas from their arses, and not from his own reported words. How do you even continue to respond to that?! It's like dealing with a child who says "Nu-uh" whenever they're accused of eating the last Oreo, even though you can clearly make out both an "R" and an "EO" combo on the chocolate bits stuck in their teeth. There comes a point when you have to voice your disappointment over their failure to at least be honest about their wrongdoing but vow to move on, as you realize that going back and forth with the revisionist is getting you nowhere.

Of more pressing concern: Why the hell did Barack reward his rhetoric with yet another cookie?

Obama supporter: 'God delivered me from homosexuality'

**Oh, and by the way: Obama referred to McClurkin and the other artists that performed as "favorites of Michelle and myself.” We were sold out HARD on this one, kids!

http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/donnie_mcclurkin/

[dsc]

59. Democrats everywhere should know better

Somewhere tonight a gay kid is being convinced by a clown like McClurkin he can change. Elsewhere a lesbian is killing herself because the change isn't working.

[PurityOfEssence]

63. Singularly the most morally reprehensible act by any Democratic contender this cycle, period.

Gravel raving that he wished he'd stiffed credit cards with more debt doesn't hold a candle; that's just the sanctimonious, anarchic rabble-rousing of sloppy larceny.

Clinton's endless attempts to curry favor by being on all sides of most issues as much as she can is simply the greasy maneuvering of a veracity-challenged positioner. (Still mighty unethical, though...)

This is the deliberate leveraging of race and religion by using endemic bigotry against a disparaged minority, and it was done against specific warnings and for pure personal gain.

Nothing compares. It's deeply, deeply cynical and immoral, and those who consider it acceptable have no moral compass or such malleable "ethics" that they can twist virtually any transgression to suit their ends.

This should have flushed him out of the race within a week, and the grotesquery of the ugly statement that "we got what we wanted out of it" reveals the worst kind of machine politics.

It's sickening that people constantly try to marginalize this or slag those who refuse to let it drop as having some kind of partisan false outrage. Those who stand against this as the race-baiting, gay-bashing, bible-thumping, greasy, deceptive demagoguery that it is are to be commended, and Benny Hill would have been proud.

[Bluebear]

64. Bravo & thank you. I had forgotten about "we got what we wanted out of it".

Disgraceful.

[Yuugal]

66. Did Gravel really say that?

"Gravel raving that he wished he'd stiffed credit cards with more debt"

Go Gravel!

"that's just the sanctimonious, anarchic rabble-rousing of sloppy larceny"

"Sloppy larceny", huh? As opposed to the 33% interest, full-on larceny us peasants are used to?

[William769]

70. ,,,

[FredScuttle]

72. Thank you

I wasn't aware of that Gravel quote, but I can't say I'm surprised by it.

[gaspee]

108. Agree 100%

I'm almost more pissed off at the apologists right now. How dare they.

[Perry Logan]

67. You might as well hold your breath waiting for a Republican to apologize.

[FredScuttle]

74. Too true

I expect a Republican to pander and embrace bigotry proudly and unashamedly and offer not even the hint of an apology for courting hatred and intolerance into his campaign.

When a "Democrat" does it, I throw up in my mouth.

[sniffa]

300. does that include yourself?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x7307059

[William769]

68. I won't be holding by breath, but I will be withholding my vote.

[dbackjon]

69. K & R

Until Obama apologizes for his embrace of anti-gay hate speech.

[FredScuttle]

73. This could be DU's version of a filibuster

n/t

[ruggerson]

71. Day 61: Still No Apology From Barack Obama for Donnie McClurkin

n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

77. i thought the mcclurkin thing was outrageous but in defense of obama

he did say he didnt agree w. mcclurkins views and just wanted everyone to be included in his party. something about reaching out and talking to the other side etc.

to be very honest i still find it nauseating.

[FredScuttle]

81. Point taken

but isn't it slightly deranged that this "ex-gay" clown, with whom Obama supposedly "disagrees" with, would be a curious choice to headline his campaign event in South Carolina? Why not the Winans or Oleta Adams? If I were truly cynical, I'd say Obama was trolling for religious bigot votes in a key primary state and he hit the jackpot with the "ex-gay" clown gospel star who packed the house with like-minded bigots who cheered such pronouncements as "God delivered me from homosexuality".

Obama's campaign tried to spin this as "reaching out to those we disagree with", but all he did, in my view, was give a clown bigot a microphone, a stage and a 1/2 hour to spew homophobic filth. Obama can issue all the lofty press releases on LGBT rights, but he got caught pandering for bigot votes in South Carolina using an "ex-gay" clown as his bait. And that he still has not apologized for the hate and filth this clown uttered on his campaign stage is an insult.

[Raster]

210. Just wanted everyone to be included in his party, eh?

Will the Grand Dragon be opening his next campaign event? Nah, didn't think so.

This may not mean much to our hetero bros and sisters, but to many Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals and Transgenders, THIS IS A BIG DEAL! This is our lives. And like it or not, Black, fundamental Christianity is loaded with homophobia. And rationalize it any way you will, but HATE IS HATE, and pandering to hate is spreading the hate, not sharing the love. Senator Obama KNEW McClosetcase would spout his anti-gay rhetoric diarrhea if given the chance, and unfortunately, a candidate for the highest office in the land gave him just that chance, and McClosetcase did not disappoint. Bad choice Obama. Bad choice.

[FredScuttle]

248. It means a LOT to me

I can't pretend to know how grievous and painful an insult this is to the LGBT community, but I'm a straight liberal Democrat and I'm offended by bigotry and intolerance, even when it's dressed up as a campaign event for a so-called "progressive" Democratic candidate.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DCKit]

79. Hey, I think that guy tried to pick me up last weekend!!! n/t

[IndianaJones]

80. I've noticed that its the gays that have a big problem with this McClurkin guy.

Make of it what you will.

[FredScuttle]

82. Nay, IJ.....it is McClosetCase who has the problems with teh Gay.

For someone who supposedly left the "gay lifestyle", he sure talks about it a lot. You know, how it's killing children and he's at war with it. Or proclaiming that God Jeebus delivered him from it, like it was the plague.

[IndianaJones]

84. this story is as dead as civil rights....move on. nt.

[FredScuttle]

85. But not as dead as Alan Sues' career

"Oh, that little tinkle!"



"Hey kiddies....Uncle Al had a lot of medicine last night"

[ruggerson]

219. Jeez

I'd forgotten about him.

[FredScuttle]

244. You and 300 million other folks

n/t

[ZombieHorde]

302. I don't understand your post IndianaJones.

What are you trying to say?

[Honeycombe8]

86. No apology is necessary. We should welcome all citizens who want to support our...

candidate. As I understand it, the person in question is not a white supremacist or KKK member or anything. He's someone who believes it is a sin to be gay? Lots of religious people believe that, and we all know that, although we reject that belief.

It is not up to candidates to screen all his supporters with an application before he accepts their support.

When he becomes President, I hope he will be President of ALL Americans, and not just those whose views he totally agrees with.

He has appeared onstage with people who support gay rights and those who don't. No apology is necessary in either instance.

[IndianaJones]

87. what is the difference between white supremacist and believing it is a sin to be gay? nt.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

94. well you know the parts in the bible people used to be able to find that said

white and blacks should not mix? whites should be supreme because there is some devil in black skin etc?

well those parts have now been superceded by the leviticus verse.

[IndianaJones]

99. I like the part where a bear comes and eats a buch of loudmouth little brats. nt.

[Honeycombe8]

231. The difference, I believe, is that one is legal in all its actions, the other is not. Also...

one is merely believing, according to his or her faith - or so s/he says - and the other is an active hatemonger.

That is the difference.

We are free to believe anything we choose. As a practical matter, though, even if the candidates wanted to screen for personal beliefs, they can't really do that. They simply can't have lengthy questionnaires filled out by all who will appear on stage with, before, or after the candidate. And it's probably not ethical to screen for personal beliefs.

As a democracy, we protect the freedom to believe however we want. That right ends where another's legal rights begin, however. The white supremacist does not recognize that fact, and seeks to wipe out by force, if necessary, those who are different from himself. That's called terrorism. The holy rolers who don't believe in homosexuality or that women should be leaders - well, I and others don't like it, and we can speak against it, but in actuality, that is what freedom is all about, isn't it? As a woman, I don't like many of the holy rolers' beliefs, but if I were a candidate, I don't think I'd bar all evangelicals from appearing on a stage that I would be appearing on soon afterwards. That's just silly. We have more important things to be concerned about with our country right now. Having an evangelical on stage before a candidate's speech has no effect whatsoever on what the candidate believes, or what the candidate will do once in office. Unless he's using the evangelical as a representation of the candidate's belief system, which Obama was not.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

265. the homophobes often advocate the death of homosexuals. there is no difference

beyond that the idea that racism is bad has been around longer in our collective psyche than homophobia has.

[readmoreoften]

92. I invite you to stand by what you said

Read this first, watch the videos, get back to me

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2500141

[La Lioness Priyanka]

93. so as long as its not race driven bigotry, we should condone it.

nice one!

[William769]

95. Now your catching on!

We are to be thrown under the bus just like the baby boomer's.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

96. yup. real nice.

[William769]

112. The only problem is we will flatten the tires.

:rofl:

[FredScuttle]

97. Should Democrats court bigots for their vote?

I ask this question seriously.

[noiretextatique]

147. are you serious?

rights of any kind are not "negotiable." either you support human rights or you don't. and if you don't, it's not a mere "disagreement." it means you support supremacy, i.e., straight people should have more rights than gay people, simply because they are straight. and it doesn't matter if religions and societies condone various forms of discrimination. if MLK had lived i doubt he'd be joining McClurkin and others in vilifying gays and lesbians. lots of religious people believe vilifying gays and lesbians is discriminatory. perhaps obama should talk to some of them.

[FredScuttle]

167. We know how Coretta Scott King felt about LGBT rights

What a proud and decent woman she was...she scored a direct hit to those bigoted black pastors who signed a statement opposing gay marriage:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-03-24-king-marriage_x.htm

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

173. I'd like to think MLK wouldn't even be a Obama supporter because of the McClurkin debacle

I'm sure at the very least, MLK would've twisted Obama's arm to apologize, or lose his support.

[avrdream]

214. I'm not MLK but I can tell you that this issue is so big for me that

had Hillary Clinton done the same thing, I would most likely not be voting for her - and I have supported her for many years.

The Gays were sold out and it's hard to just drop it like others above thread suggest. It's just so damned personal.

[Bluebear]

215. A sincere thank you from the bottom of my heart.

:loveya:

[ruggerson]

283. Very cool

You are not only a good person, but intellectually honest, as well. Thank you.

[Baconfoot]

348. The "President of all Americans" would be a leader who can help positively influence hearsts &minds

By associating oneself directly with a bigoted anti-science self-hater, one does the opposite of that. Giving this loon the stage lends credibility to his dangerous ideas. Freedom of speech doesn't mean that every position should be given access to every platform. Dell books can choose what to publish and what not to publish. Not every American can send out a White House press releases. Part of the way ideas battle themselves out in the marketplace of ideas is by competing for access to the best podiums. That's part of the reason media consolidation and corporate control of media is so dangerous - it interferes with that competition. But it is not interfering with competition for someone to choose not to lend credibility to filth. That's one of the results we can hope for in a free marketplace of ideas - that people will hear crap and not facilitate the passing of the crap on.

For example, a couple of years ago a fellow union member explained to me that a rogue moon named Nibiru was going to hit the Earth that summer and he was going to go camp out in the woods and that this all had to do with an alien conspiracy. Well, I didn't then demand that at the next union meeting we add a new agenda item concerning Nibiru. And had I invited him to talk about organizing and instead he started babbling about Nibiru, it wouldn't be unreasonable for people in attendance to demand some sort of explanation of me.

However, while Obama made a mistake, he has repudiated this joker's position, wants to entirely repeal DOMA and has a good voting record on GLBTI issues including favoring the inclusion of protections against discrimination on the basis of gender identity.

I feel that an apology would not be out of place, but there's no reason to belabor the point with hundreds of posts attacking a man who is clearly in the right policy-space.

[MuseRider]

88. Kick

for an important topic that we should not have to be discussing.

THIS is where education comes in, not allowing those like McClurkin to have a microphone and no debate.

[FredScuttle]

98. Exactly

That's what's so infuriating about the excuse that Obama included this "ex-gay" clown in an effort to "reach out" to the black religious community. As if it was mututally exclusive from the LGBT community. But you don't reach out by giving a clown bigot a microphone, a stage and the starring role in your campaign event where he can spew homophobic filth out for a half-hour to a receptive crowd of like-minded bigots.

[MuseRider]

130. If that is what passes

for education and this is how you include and reach out then Obama is NOT a good candidate for any political office. As said, he had his GLBT issues out but his actions override anything he has said. To be honest, I have not read what he says. Other than seeing it here I have no desire what so ever to even look at his site. To me actions speak and I really do not want someone who says something and does the other, especially to benefit themselves. Pandering, yes but mostly just egotistical self promotion. Anybody want compassionate conservative? I believe that moniker is now floating around without an owner.

[readmoreoften]

91. I don't see Obama as someone who admits to mistakes. One of the main things I don't like about him.

I like Edwards because he admits to mistakes. I like Kucinich because he doesn't make many; however, he did admit that he was wrong on abortion and changed his tune. So did Biden.

Obama don't seem to admit they're wrong on anything. It makes him look incredibly arrogant. (The Clintons don't admit mistakes either, but at least they're more charismatic at smoothing things over.)

[noiretextatique]

101. i have no intention of voting for obama

this mclurkin disater was a really stupid and cynical ploy. obama would have been better off actually courting the black LGBT vote instead of making it difficult for any gay and lesbian person to support him, while attempting to woo republican-supporting bigots like mcclurkin.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

102. also he could have foudn a less ugly way to win the homophobic vote.

[noiretextatique]

103. true...supposedly they believe in god

and supposedly he does too :shrug:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

104. yup. couldnt they find another passage in the bible to focus on?

how about the love thy neighbour bit?

that seems like it could make a good speech

[noiretextatique]

105. not so sure that would appeal to the religious bigots

they need some sin and sinners and holy hatred. the ties that bind.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

107. but didnt jesus try to stop that kind of behavior? let he who is without sin cast the first stone?

ofcourse being a hindu/atheist i could be wrong about this.

[cloudythescribbler]

110. Looking thru the comments on this OP, I am APPALLED ...

at how few people are willing to distinguish McClurkin's views from Obama's. ONLY SOME people who support gay rights think that, even for other purposes, as here, to allow someone who apparently doesn't on stage and in one's political coalition (a broad coalition that is, overall, supportive of gay rights) is unforgiveable. There is room for disagreement here -- though those who are offended by "bigotry" of any kind are not likely to be willing to be open to it.

I do NOT suggest there is room for disagreement on the validity of McClurkin on gay sexuality or rights. Rather, there is room for disagreement over whether his statements or views in other contexts should disqualify him from appearing in a campaign event. I personally think that Obama's position of supporting gay rights but having someone like McClurkin sing in support of the campaign is NOT some profound moral contradiction; there are SOME things Obama has said or done that I have a problem with, but not this particular one. The problem with political correctness (and that's what this is about, however you try to slice it) is that when you extend it to the furthest possible logical point, no one can really do ANYTHING in this world, because, after all, it means getting together with the absolute evil of the politically incorrect.

As for the statements BY McClurking rejecting the label of homophobe, attacks on this ground are like looping -- someone trying to defend themselves, when who and what they are is indefensible -- is taken as vicious attack as it is, presumably again, nothing more than a defense of "bigotry".


It appears that some people want to make the question of whether or not they could support Obama into a referendum on McClurkin's views. Rather, remember ALL the things that a Democratic nominee must unite in his party -- some who are anti-choice, some who are at least accused of anti-semitism, some who are ... well sporting confederate flags on their trucks but voting for universal health coverage. Having McClurkin sing is not and was not IN ANY WAY an endorsement of his views on homosexuality.

It reminds me a little bit of those who were outraged by HRC kissing Yasir Arafat's wife goodbye. I am not at all sympathetic with anti-semitism any more than with anti-gay sentiment, but I just don't believe that the way you conquer bigotry is by being 'more pure than thou' in not associating with someone who merely associates with someone who is anti-gay.

I know this position will strike some as 'soft on bigotry', but it is not at all. I wouldn't disqualify Biden for his gaffes or Kucinich for the plainly idiotic notion of running ON A TICKET with Ron Paul (I think it pretty dumb and substantive on Kucinich's part) or Ralph Nader for some of the ways he tried to dismiss the implications of Roe v Wade being overturned in his 2000 campaign. The list goes on and on. It is precisely the high horse of the distinction between the dumb, the tone-deaf and the "inexcusable" (in this situation) that I reject -- and I reject it IN PRINCIPLE as well as being a practical political matter.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

111. next time obama should invite white supremacists too. to open the field further.

[William769]

113. It was a fundraiser for Obama, Obama used him to pander to a specific group.

If your ok with that fine. But many people are not. Including me!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

114. yes, what i am APPALLED at, is that so long as it happens to gays no one fucking cares

if HRC had a racist/neonazi speak at her event, would she have gotten over it. infact would anyone recover if this was a racist and not a homophobe?

[William769]

115. Check out this posters response here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3898350&mesg_id=3898572

Need more be said?

[FredScuttle]

118. That's disappointing

n/t

[cloudythescribbler]

121. Is there ANY indication that McClurkin was selected ...

... specifically to "pander" to anti-gay sentiments? NO. Yet the distinction between that assertion and what apparently DID happen is completely glossed over.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm........

[FredScuttle]

125. Obama knew what he was doing

In fact, a number of LGBT groups, including the president of the Human Rights Campaign, contacted Obama 5 days before the concert to complain that his "ex-gay" clown had, in the past, said many hateful, derogatory statements on gays and lesbians and to warn that McClosetCase would spew homophobic filth at the upcoming concert.

So, when it came to pass that these warnings were 100% accurate, did Obama apologize for not heeding this sage advice? Naw!!!

Here's the deal...Obama, at the time, was lagging behind Sen. Clinton in black votes in South Carolina and he needed something big to rally that demographic to come over to his campaign. He found his champion in an "ex-gay" clown who thrilled an audience of religious bigots with his tales of deliverance from homosexuality.

[William769]

129. Why give this person the facts?

We already know where he stands, he has made that abundantly clear. I guess it's true BIGOTS stick together.

[FredScuttle]

135. I never get tired of telling the truth

Obama supporters on this board get tired of me telling it to them.

[cloudythescribbler]

146. Wow, this really reflects an intolerance of ANY debate

At least the OPer, though he claims I am an apologist for bigotry, is willing to discuss the issue. I am a socialist who has been an authentic progressive through decades of the continuing defeat and marginalization of the left, and the gross violation of our human rights. (I recognize that gays are among the MOST oppressed groups, per capita, in the US today in terms of hate crimes and the promotion in popular culture of anti-gay politics.)

What I wanted to know, and it really hasn't been answered clearly, is that ALTHOUGH SOME LEADING GAY GROUPS STARTED COMPLAINING ABOUT McCLURKIN EVEN BEFORE the latter's first appearance on the stage of Obama's campaign, is there any reason to believe that McClurkin was specifically selected for that purpose, or just for being a popular gospel singer? Merely ASSUMING that it was done to pander to an anti-gay demographic doesn't cut it for me.

Obama was confronted with the issue that someone who was scheduled to perform for his campaign was offensive to gays. He argued that the 'big tent' of his politics should NOT look for ways to shut people out, and added an advocate of gay rights to appear on the podium, and reiterated his own (Obama's) commitment to gay rights.

Yet here you have my defense of Obama -- that I don't think this episode is a serious reason to oppose him (though it is undoubtedly seized upon by many who already opposed him, and has probably cost him some support in some quarters) -- itself means that I am considered an apologist for bigotry.

I agree that SOME attacks on political correctness are overstated (eg John McWhorter, to cite a fairly "mainstream" example, in much but not all that he says), but it is also true that political correctness, whether honestly or not, is often misused (including by RWers, such as the attempts to go after HRC for comparing the Repug controlled Congress to a plantation). The question is not whether ALL invocations of so-called political correctness are automatically wrong, but whether THIS particular logic -- condemning Obama for not cancelling the appearance of a singer who appears to have been honestly supporting his candidacy, due to the singers' anti-gay politics -- is a proper, and indeed morally requisite position.

I do NOT think it is morally requisite, and respect Obama's position on gay rights as progressive. I do NOT think I am being 'soft on bigotry' or an apologist for bigotry because I reject this particular application of 'politically correctness'. I also believe that overextending political correctness does indeed tend to alienate a lot of people who might otherwise be MUCH more receptive to progressives (not just RWers). RWers delight in this problem on the left because they understand that overdoing PC helps them and hurts the left.

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

179. Homophobia was the only thing preached on that stage, no one advocated gay rights

"and added an advocate of gay rights to appear on the podium, and reiterated his own (Obama's) commitment to gay rights."

The person you're referring to was a white gay pastor, who made a brief prayer while people were filing in, not paying attention. And he mentioned NOTHING about being gay, and said NOTHING about gay rights. The black gay community was also very insulted that the Obama campaign chose to use a white pastor, which reinforced the widely believed stereotype that gays and blacks are two separate groups, ignoring the existence of people who are both. The crowd that night was very homophobic, cheering McClurkin's comments on, and it would've been wonderful to have a black gay pastor standing on stage to challenge their stereotypes and bigotry. Many black gay pastors were suggested for the campaign to use, but they chose a white one who didn't even mention a thing about being gay. Just another slap in the face from the Obama camp.

[cloudythescribbler]

205. Did McClurking make homophobic comments FROM THE OBAMA CAMPAIGN PODIUM? this implies ...

"The crowd that night was very homophobic, cheering McClurkin's comments on ..."

That he did, yet nowhere in this thread have I seen those specific comments (that the homophobic crowd was supposedly cheering on) quoted in full context.

The point about choosing a white gay pastor over a black gay pastor is new to me, although some might find in that distinction yet further 'political correctness' issues. I don't see any reason why someone speaking at the beginning of the event would bring up gay rights, as that would only encourage a response in that vein from McClurkin. HOWEVER, IF McCLURKING MADE ANTI-GAY STATEMENTS FROM OBAMA'S PODIUM, then the burden is on Obama and his campaign to sharply draw a line between that view and the Obama campaign.


I want to make it clear that I am NOT defending McClurkin's views, but rather the Obama campaign. From all I have seen so far, it seems that this issue is really being milked to attack Obama, which I oppose.

Incidentally, there ARE examples of various kinds of 'forbidden' ethnic bigotry, one of the most problematic of which is Kucinich suggesting that he would consider running on a ticket with Ron Paul, who I consider to be exactly the kind of racist you say any campaign associated remotely with would be lambasted. I would add that having someone on your ticket and having a SINGER perform are not the same thing. People tried to stop Paul Robeson from performing due to Robeson's (considered unacceptable) radical political views. No one seems to have taken up the NUMEROUS examples I have cited in other comments of ethnic issues related to campaigns, and even to candidates.

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

209. Of course he did, watch the YouTube clip for yourself

That he did, yet nowhere in this thread have I seen those specific comments (that the homophobic crowd was supposedly cheering on) quoted in full context."

Why should there be? This discussion has been going on for a month, and has probably included a few hundred threads. It's expected that people commenting on it at this point, are aware of the basic facts of the case. You think we're all making it up? The YouTube clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dUp16hFzY8

the burden is on Obama and his campaign to sharply draw a line between that view and the Obama campaign."

He did, he said he found the comments "disturbing", but then he also made the comment to The Advocate about how homophobia is not inconsistent with being "good, moral and decent."

it seems that this issue is really being milked to attack Obama, which I oppose."

Precious Obama deserves to be attacked for this.

Kucinich suggesting that he would consider running on a ticket with Ron Paul, who I consider to be exactly the kind of racist you say any campaign associated remotely with would be lambasted."

He was lambasted and lost a lot of support for saying that.

"I would add that having someone on your ticket and having a SINGER perform are not the same thing."

You can capitalize that McClurkin was only a SINGER at the event all you like. Doesn't change the fact that he EMCEED the event, and went into an anti-gay TIRADE at the end of it.

there ARE examples of various kinds of 'forbidden' ethnic bigotry"

There AREN'T any examples anywhere near as blatant as this. Paul Robeson? You're using something from ancient history to excuse Obama's fresh disrespect of the gay community? My you sure are willing to reach to defend him.

[cloudythescribbler]

292. No, I am also trying to get to the bottom of this

And why should ANYONE assume that every one of the tens of thousands of DU readers would know EVERY background detail of every story?

Now, as for McClurking using the Obama campaign podium to spout anti-gay bigotry, this really does provide Obama with a test: he should surely NOT allow McClurkin to appear at more Obama campaign events after doing that, at the very least without a binding commitment to refrain from that.

The fact that Obama expressed opposition to the tirade, and said that 'too many good, moral, decent" people in the community were homophobic does NOT pander to homophobia. As I mentioned elsewhere, it is the Dr King tradition in the Civil Rights movement in this sort of situation to hate the sin but love the sinner. It is the kind of exploitation of political correctness exploitation in this thread that is appalling.

I also thought this comment was more thoughtful than some, in that at least SOME of the egs (Kucinich & Ron Paul) were addressed. Others were ignored. Paul Robeson isn't "ancient" history it's modern history, and it's RELEVANT modern history.

Incidentally, my asking questions about particulars, and approaching this issue from a somewhat different angle, is not 'going to all lengths' to defend Obama. Rather, in a thread of literally scores of people jumping over Obama for views he didn't express and indeed expressed opposition to, there have been NO extended defenses of Obama. Do you think that's because none of the many Obama supporters on DU have a different view of this from those on this thread, or is it much more likely that (as on WBAI where you get dozens of callers supporting HIV virus denial/obscurantism and not ONE caller suggests that this position in factually wrong) it's a matter of intimidation. Obviously no one, including me, could reasonably expect epistemologically to be met with open minded people explaining their specific concerns in a civil debate. But unlike most people, I sometimes go to places like proteinwisdom even though I am an authentic left-progressive and a socialist.

I also note the rather UNprogressive use of the label 'clown', and others suggesting it was a waste of 'facts' to argue; these are characteristic of what I call 'red-headed league' type progressives.

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

180. Either Obama's big tent includes white supremacists spewing racism at his fund-raisers

With him never apologizing for it, or it's a homophobic double-standard. Your argument relies on that double-standard. If Obama had been a white candidate who hired a white supremacists to emcee one of his fund-raisers, and never apologized for it, even going so far as to characterize racists as "good, moral, decent people" in an magazine interview, his career would've been toast.

Obama to The Advocate: "These events have provided an important opportunity for us to confront a difficult fact:There are good, decent, moral people in this country who do not yet embrace their gay brothers and sisters as full members of our shared community."

http://www.queerty.com/obama-talks-gay-again-20071112/

Edit: to change the spelling of "supremacists"

[Toasterlad]

211. So If David Duke Played the Spoons, And Obama Invited Him to Perform, That's Dandy?

You are missing the point of the outrage because you plainly JUST DON'T CARE THAT MUCH ABOUT THE RIGHTS OF GAY PEOPLE. It's okay. It doesn't, by itself, make you a terrible person. But you are embarrassing yourself by continuing to defend the indefensible simply because you don't understand WHY it's indefensible. It is, literally, no big deal to you that Obama hired a homophobic hypocrite to emcee his concert. Since you are incapable of understanding why it IS a big deal to other people, it might be best if you just refrain from speaking about the matter, because you are painting yourself as first-class bigot, which you actually are, but which you don't believe yourself to be. It would be in your own self-interest to drop it.

[Maat]

218. McClurkin was selected knowing full well what he would spout ..

because that's what McClurkin does; he never has not done that.

For this PFLAGer (proud V.P. of our local PFLAG - Parents, Friends, Family of Gays & Lesbians), it was huge that he allowed that kind on stage. There is no experienced politician, or member of said person's staff, that would be unaware of what this guy does consistently.

Allowing McClurkin on stage is something that stays in my mind, and I appreciate this thread.

Because of this obvious pandering (on the part of Obama) to the bigoted, ultra-conservative religious crowd, I will not be voting for him.

Obama has a Juris Doctor (law degree), and is somewhat of a constitutional expert; he was quite aware of what he was doing.

[alteredstate]

156. It wasn't a fundraiser

The price of the tickets didn't cover the cost of renting the venues. If you want to dispute this, I don't give a shit. It's the truth.

[FreeState]

178. Either way it was a campaign event

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2007/10/29/mcclurkin.speech.cnn?iref=videosearch%20.

[FredScuttle]

116. "Soft on bigotry"? You?

Bull Connor was soft on bigotry. You are like a thousand Downy Fabric Fresh sheets wrapping a plush velvet teddy bear on bigotry.

Replace "gay" with "black" in the story on Pastor McClosetCase and maybe you'll get it

[cloudythescribbler]

128. Actually I cited some examples (such as Biden's gaffes) ...

which DO relate to issues of "racism". And I supported the Rainbow Coalition although Jesse Jackson's "Hymietown" remark disturbed me in a way that merely allowing someone onstage to sing for a campaign does NOT. I came to the conclusion that the Rainbow Coalition as a movement, and the JJ campaign as an organization was not pervaded with antiSemitism or an "antisemitic agenda".

Then there is the example I cited of Ron Paul, who is (in my view) a dangerous bigot who is mobilizing a movement that is open to bigotry. The notion of Kucinich even CONSIDERING running with Paul on THE SAME TICKET is much more egregious than merely having a singer who harbors anti-gay sentiments.

Incidentally, the example of HRC and Ms. Arafat also raises issues of perceived bigotry . It is not as if I am arguing that being anti-gay is OK but racism is taboo

The notion that I want to highlight, which the OPer has underscored here, is that anyone who doesn't toe the politically correct line is in turn condemned as "like a thousand Downy Fabric Fresh sheets wrapping a plush velvet teddy bear on bigotry."

Somehow when the issue comes to the holy grail of political correctness, all positions become moral absolutes and anyone who doesn't agree (not just McClurkin or even Obama, but myself) is simply 'like a thousand Downy Fabric Fresh sheets wrapping a plush velvet teddy bear on bigotry'. This is exactly the type of thinking that leads me to reject, and even often mistrust, political correctness. It is a supposedly progressive concern that is little more than a wedge issue for progressives.

And there are PLENTY of examples on the issue of race and racism being misused as issues in the name of political correctness. People were called racist if they felt busing was a bad policy and especially bad politics; Ebonics as a second language was used by some as a litmus test for political correctness; others feel it is 'racist' to reject the Tawana Brawley case ANY WAY YOU SLICE IT; and the list goes on and on.

This type of thinking, whether intended to or not, is deeply destructive of progressives and leaves the RWers tickled and amused, as well as benefitting politically.

Surely, if I don't agree, I "don't get it". That's the same view that those who favor the status quo comprehensive social system ALSO project regarding my leftist rejection of the system.

[FredScuttle]

131. Ah, the ol' "political correctness" canard

the last refuge of apologists for racism and homophobia. "Racism is taboo"??? So where does that place homophobia on the Scales of Evil? Something above "Guys who leave the seat up" but below "Able-bodied pricks who park in handicapped spots"?

I'm not calling you a bigot apologist because of some DU orthodoxy that commands us to toe this line or the other. I call you a bigot apologist because you're apologizing for bigotry.

Of course RW'ers are "tickled and amused"...like they give a shit about equality and respect for minority groups.

[DemKR]

117. America can't trust Barack Obama n/t

[ecstatic]

119. Just DON'T.VOTE.FOR.OBAMA

Every candidate has said or done something that I really found offensive, and the one's who offended me the most will not get my vote (unless they are the nominee). It's very simple.

[DemKR]

122. Good, decent, moral brothers and sisters!

[FredScuttle]

123. Thank you

I won't

Now, when will Obama apologize?

[LanternWaste]

120. This just in...

This just in...

Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead. Film at eleven...

[sampsonblk]

124. If he apologizes, he's out of the race

What McClurkin said is not even slightly controversial for most Americans. Regarding his appearance for Obama, even the tiny uproar didn't prompt a major discussion of the validity his claims. The only discussions were about the uproar itself. And that didn't last very long.

Why on earth would Obama apologize? He's a politician and he can certainly do the math on this one.

[DemKR]

126. Oh he'll be out of the race fairly soon.

[sampsonblk]

132. Well, yeah. That too.-nt

[FredScuttle]

127. Really?

What if he said "God delivered me from blackness"

or "God delivered me from Judaism"

or "God delivered me from being left-handed"

[sampsonblk]

133. I dunno. Let him say it, and we'll see what the reaction is.

For now, he's said the stuff he's said, and it doesn't even register on the controversy scale.

[FredScuttle]

139. For you maybe

it was widely covered at the time and things like this have a pattern of reappearing in campaigns, especially as rival campaigns conduct their opposition research.

[sampsonblk]

141. I don't see anyone using it against him

and I don't see ny candidate who'd gain anything from bringing it up. I could be wrong, of course. They are all politicians.

I bet they'd all love to have McClurkin on stage for them in Iowa or pretty much anywhere else.

[noiretextatique]

148. he might want to consider that gays and lesbians also vote

and i can assure you, i don't think Obama's McClurkin stunt is going to win any of those votes.

[FreeState]

151. GLBT families and friends vote too

All 9 voters in my family - all GOP - except me - believe it or not -were going to vote for him. Not anymore. How a Black man can feel gays are only entitles to a "set of basic rights" is beyond me and most Americans now days.

The very sad part of all of this is my sister has 2 black children and was so excited to have a role model for them, something she does not have now.

[sampsonblk]

174. You can say that again

He really should have put more thought into what he was doing. Had he just avoided McClurkin in the first place, he could have achieved the same results wouldn't have pissed anyone off.

[DemKR]

144. Obama loves mcclurkin apparently...

[Bluebear]

140. In other words, this "hope" and "change" crap is just that.

Or however else he and his adoring followers are trying to paint his image.

[FredScuttle]

142. "The Audacity of Hope"....yeah, right

More like "The Audacity of Audacity". Obama is that special breed of politician who is simultaneously an "outsider, breath-of-fresh-air, not-politics-as-usual" while still being a "cunning, coldly calculating" pragmatist. Stunning, isn't it?

And don't forget....he's nothing like the other candidates (especially Hillary) except when it comes to courting and employing bigots and homophobes in the campaign....in that respect, Obama's just one of the boys!

[sampsonblk]

182. Well, yeah

If you expected a saint, may I suggest you look elsewhere. Barack Obama is a politician. He's had plenty of opportunities in the Senate to show superior character. Nope. He's just a politician.

[FredScuttle]

243. I expected what Obama's selling himself as

The Candidate of Hope.

Not the Candidate of Do Whatever It Takes To Win Those Sweet, Sweet South Carolina Primary Votes. Even Hiring An "Ex-Gay" Clown To Whoop It Up With A Crowd Of Bigots At My Campaign Event.

[FreeState]

134. There is more than McClurkin Obama needs to apologize for

The whole concert was put on by the anti-gay bigots:

http://direland.typepad.com/direland/2007/11/obamas-anti-gay.html

But it's not only McClurkin whose star presence on the Obama campaign tour is repulsive. Walker (left), another Grammy Award-winner who is the Pentecostal pastor of a Brooklyn mega-church, the Love Fellowship Tabernacle, has been described as "disturbingly and publicly anti-gay" by "hip-hop intellectual" Professor Mark Lamont Hill of Temple University. (Walker likes to call himself the "hip-hop pastor" for having recorded with Sean "Puff Daddy" Combs, a member of his church.)

And the Mary Mary sisters (right) compare gays to murderers and prostitutes. In an interview with Vibe magazine, one of the singers said, "They have issues and need somebody to encourage them like everybody else - just like the murderer, just like the one full of pride, just like the prostitute."

Some of the strongest denunciations of these musical bigots headlining Obama's campaign tour have come from African Americans.

[FredScuttle]

136. Thanks for the details

I focus on Rev. McClosetCase because he's sort of the mascot of this whole debacle.

[FreeState]

137. I agree he is particularly disturbing

All of them are - but the myth that gay people need to change in order to please God is pure evil - anyone claiming such is just as dangerous. To many lives have been lost trying to please the heterosexual male dominance in religion and society.

[William769]

138. I would say he's only a puppet with Obama pulling the strings.

[DemKR]

143. he REALLY hurt me when he did this. nt

[FreeState]

145. He hurt a lot more people than he has realized

When you legitimize hate you create an atmosphere that sucks the life out of the minority groups weakest members - in this case LGBT youth that are evangelicals. He could have used the situation to make life better for them but instead stuck to the status quo.

[PakistaniDUer]

149. You know, in a year or two no one will remember this

These little mini-scandals mean almost nothing and it's a shame that the media is turning them into a circus instead of serious stuff.

[FredScuttle]

150. Some of us don't forget insults to the LGBT community so easily

I should add that this was an insult to straight Democrats, like me, who value equality and civil rights.

[PakistaniDUer]

152. None of them running support gay rights, really

Except kucinich and gravel. The rest just trot out little insult and complements to the LGBT community every now and then, though all of them will implement the same policies on gay rights except the ones who really believe in equality, kucinich and gravel.

[totodeinhere]

442. Exactly

I am waiting for any of the major contenders to support full fledged gay marriage, but I'm afraid it's not going to happen. I am also waiting for HRC to apologize for her support for her husband's don't ask don't tell policy.

None of the major candidates have perfectly clean hands on this issue, so I am not going to single out Obama on this without calling out the other candidates as well.

[FreeState]

153. Your right - civil rights aren't "serious stuff" and we shouldn't focus on bigotry at all

</sarcasm>

[PakistaniDUer]

154. I support Kucinich one reason because he supports full LGBT rights

but this scandal and all the LGBT scandals are full of shit, they just mask the fact that edward obama and clinton all think gays are second class citizens. They'll all legislate exactly the same way, is the fact, and that's what matters, not mini non-incidients liek this.

[FreeState]

164. As someone who grew up in an Anti-Gay church this is not a mini non-incidients

its a lot bigger than that. Suggesting spiritual terrorism is a non issue is appalling IMO.

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

155. This "mini-scandal" would've spelled an end to Obama's political career

Had he been a white candidate who hired a white supremest to emcee one of his fund-raisers, and never apologized for it.

[PakistaniDUer]

157. Oh please his position is same as clinton and edwards

Gays are second class citizens; if you want them to have rights u have to vote kucinich its that simple

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

158. We're not discussing positions here, we're discussing the hiring of a bigot

to emcee one of his fund-raisers. And there's only one candidate who did that. Try staying on topic.

[PakistaniDUer]

159. Edwards and Clinton would hire bigots too

No one really cares about LGBT rights among the frontrunners, this is just a shallow non-scandal, something for people to get angry about because the fact of the matter is they all have the same policy positions and people aren't having the balls to vote for someone who'd give lgbt rights.

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

162. If you're going to insultingly call this a "shallow, non-scandal"

then you MUST, in your next post, address the fact that it would have ruined Obama's career if he had been a white candidate who hired a white supremest to emcee one of his fund-raisers and never apologize for it. Don't try to change the subject again, incessantly changing the subject is the behavior of 15 post sock-puppets. If that isn't what you are, prove it.

[Bluebear]

177. "Would hire" versus ****DID HIRE****. Big difference.

[MuseRider]

175. MINI SCANDALS???

You are joking right? Please tell me you are joking.

Not serious stuff, human rights are not serious stuff.

Really, are you sure you clicked the right link to get here?

[nadine_mn]

232. mini-scandal? Yup those pesky civil rights are so trivial

if this were about race (substiute David Duke for McClurkin)would it still be a mini-scandal? McClurkin is well know for his homophobic vitriol.

Gay rights = civil rights. If Obama had someone saying that being black can be cured (ala bleaching) or Jews can be perfected - would that have more or less meaning to you

[harmonicon]

160. who cares? No, really - who cares?

Did he pay this guy? If so, he shouldn't have, but if this guy volunteered to campaign for him, that's fine in my book. Politicians ought to be able to welcome support from those who they have disagreements with. While I hate all of this "ex-gay" gay-bashing, I don't really see it as that big of a problem campaign-wise. Shouldn't we be more bothered that these sort of folks are out there than be bothered by who they support as president? I'm certain that every candidate in this race has supporters who many of us would disagree with on many grounds, but this guy just had the celebrity to make it widely known.... has Obama said he agrees with this clown? I don't think he has, so can we please just relax about this and focus on what candidates plan for, should they become president? If Obama is the next president, he'll be your president, and the president for all american ex-gay-anti-gay singers. If you both want to support the guy, go for it.

[FreeState]

163. Its not as simple as you make it

the guy preached becoming ex-gay at Obama's event - Obama made him the MC of the event after being told by the largest gay rights group in America about his hate.

[harmonicon]

184. yeah, but did he pay him?

If he did, he shouldn't get the support of those to who this is an important issue, but if he's comfortable with it, why should he apologize? I don't like what this guy stands for, but I don't see how demonizing him is much better than what he's doing - people have lots of crazy ideas, especially for religious reasons, and I don't think we should go getting upset about them supporting political candidates and espousing their ideas in the same forum.

[Chovexani]

166. Spoken like a true privileged heterofascist

The entire Black GLBT community cares, because we were shat on, like we've always been shat on, like you're doing and like half the people in this thread have been doing since this went down.

[FreeState]

168. Im beginning to think some people refuse to see it

because they dont want to see it. At first I thought people just didn't understand - you had to be gay or have really close gay friends to understand why this action of Obama's was so appalling. But Im beginning to think some people would rather blindly support a candidate than try and understand the real issue here. Cognitive dissonance for Obama if you will....

[FredScuttle]

170. Excellent point

BTW, it's "dissonance", but the point is well taken. People have committed to Obama so they'd rather minimize this particularly ugly episode in his campaign to justify their continued loyalty.

[FreeState]

172. Thanks I fixed the spelling LOL :) n/t

[harmonicon]

188. I don't support Obama

So I don't think this is time to ask for an apology. If he isn't beholden to any of us (except to the people of Illinois in his capacity as a senator). If you don't like the way he's running his campaign, don't vote for him!!! Are we constantly calling on Republicans to apologize for openly calling (themselves - not supporters of their campaigns) for the overturning of abortion laws? No, we just don't vote for them.

[FreeState]

191. It doesnt matter if hes beholden to me or not

I am gay and what he does to gay people effects we - no matter who or what he is running for.

[harmonicon]

193. Does name-calling help? I think you may have missed my point.

Sure, you feel disrespected because of this. Fine - DON'T VOTE FOR THE GUY!! Pining for an apology gets us nowhere.

[FredScuttle]

169. You should care

Gays and straights alike should be appalled that a so-called "progressive" candidate openly courted and welcomed a bigot clown into this campaign, despite a firestorm of criticism from a wide spectrum of progressive causes. What does it say about Obama that he not only gave a bigot a microphone and a stage to spew his homophobic filth, but also refuses to apologize for it?

[harmonicon]

190. Do I like that he did this? No.

Was I going to support him if he hadn't done this? No. If you don't like it, don't vote for him, plain and simple - stop making such a big deal of it, and make your feelings known in the voting booth. My other point was that I think some blame is being placed where it shouldn't - this singer guy may really like Obama, and people who agree with him may really like Obama, and I don't think it's just for us to take that away from them, no matter how deeply we differ.

[FredScuttle]

195. Obama started this "big deal" when he welcomed a bigot into his campaign

and gave him a microphone to deliver such charming bon mots as "God delivered me from homosexuality"

You can rest assured that Obama will not get my vote in the primaries and I will also spend the remaining days in the primary season to remind as many as I can what kind of craven, pandering sellout he is.

It bothers me little that Obama attracts bigots to his campaign...Obama supporters have to answer for that. However, to suggest that we should give consideration to bigots just because they support one of our candidates is a joke. A sad one, at that.

[harmonicon]

224. I wasn't suggesting he should give them consideration, just that bigots have a choice to make too

I guess I wasn't going to swayed by Obama, so I didn't need to be told this. Perhaps some people do need to hear it, and you're right. I just figured that everyone here has known about this for months and it's been hashed over about as much as possible.

[FredScuttle]

233. Judging by the plethora of apologia for homophobia in this thread

I don't think a lot "get it".

I wish Obama and his campaign best wishes in their battle for the bigot vote...a proud day for Democrats everywhere, indeed. :eyes:

[harmonicon]

255. well.... geez

but what can you do? These people do vote. I've been incredibly disturbed to read some very racist remarks on DU today from Edwards supporters. I don't think Edwards is out working for the racist vote, but it sure seems like he's attracting it... at least on here.

[FredScuttle]

258. Do you think I give a flying fuck who bigots and homophobes vote for?

We are headed in the wrong direction if we're going to be concerned about reaching out to bigots and ignorant morons who would gladly return this country back a full century.

[harmonicon]

264. that's the way I feel too *shrug*

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

204. We're making our feelings known here to educate others on the subject. If you don't like that..

*shrug*

[harmonicon]

225. I guess I've just heard it 1,000 times now

I agree that he shouldn't be campaigning with this guy if he wants my vote, but I don't think it's right for someone to call on him to apologize if this is why he really wants to do, you know? I didn't mean to hurt any feelings, that's for sure.

[Bluebear]

176. Sadly, not you, evidently.

Personally I would do some soul searching and see why endorsing bigotry is OK with you. Whether Obama paid him or not, he engaged him to MC the event during which the man gave a half hour sermon against gays. Obama was begged days ahead of time, by GLBT's, byt the Human Rights Commission, not to put the man on and he was callous about it.

"We got what we needed out of it" was what a campaign spokesman said afterwards.

[harmonicon]

186. Ok, this was my point - people upset with him shouldn't support him! end of story

If he doesn't feel like he has to apologize, stop asking for an apology that you're not going to get and move on.

[ruggerson]

192. You're the arbiter of what we should be writing about?

would you like to schedule the posts we write and then authorize when they are to be released?

[FredScuttle]

197. 10:00 PM - Obama saved a kitten from a tree

10:03 PM - Obama's tears found to have miraculous healing powers

10:14 PM - Obama able to leap tall buildings in a single bound

10:19 PM - Obama single-handedly brings together Palestinians, Israelis in permanent truce.

[DemKR]

183. going on 61 now n/t

[DemKR]

185. all i can say is go hillary. This is

soooooo right.

[TeamJordan23]

187. When is your candidate going to apologize for the Iraq War vote?

That has killed thousands of Americans, Iraqis, and children.

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

189. I think Obama would've voted for it too

No one's shown less courage in the face of controversial votes than Obama. No one but some guy recovering from a stroke has skipped more votes in the senate. No one's voted "present" more often.

[TeamJordan23]

194. Well, lets stick to the facts not a hypothetical. Clinton voted for it and has not apologized.

Shouldn't she apologize for her vote for this war that has killed tens of thousands probably?

[DemKR]

196. And this has what to do with "good, decent, moral " homophobes

[TeamJordan23]

202. What is good about thousands of dead innocent women and children?

And state one time when Obama has said anything homophobic.

[Toasterlad]

217. He Said That He Would Not Make Same-Sex Marriage Legal.

That's homophobic. And please don't hand me, "Hillary wouldn't either." I hate both candidates, and the only things that disgust me more than the candidates themselves are their supporters on DU, who turn everything into "he said/she said". There are plenty of anti-Hillary threads out there for you to post to. THIS thread is about Barack Obama's incredibly offensive homophobia. Good luck trying to excuse it. But I'll give you a hint: pulling a page from the Freeper bible and saying "Clinton did it too" is NOT the way to win credibility.

[IndianaJones]

198. do you feel she supported the war? nt.

[Ken Burch]

200. Yeah. But AIPAC won't let her.

n/t.

[Critters2]

341. Exactly. Thank you. nt

[Bluebear]

212. Salon: It shouldn't surprise that Obama is playing to both sides-that seems to be what he's best at

Sen. Barack Obama's decision to tour South Carolina with gospel entertainer Donnie McClurkin, a self-proclaimed "former homosexual" who believes it is his mission to turn gays straight, suggests that Obama can't live without the support of the homophobic contingent of the black community and the black church in particular. But African-American politicians have already proved that black support is not contingent on homophobia. Few people remember that in 2004, the only presidential candidate besides Dennis Kucinich to support gay marriage was the Rev. Al Sharpton -- both a mainstream black leader and a minister. Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and Obama have all spoken out in favor of gay rights and against black homophobia....

It shouldn't surprise anyone that Obama is playing to both sides -- that seems to be what he's best at. He means well, but you know what they say about the highways in hell. However, adding Sidden to the mix without giving McClurkin the shaft was enough of an afterthought to incense the gay community without fixing the problem. Did Obama overestimate the depth of the black community's homophobia and unintentionally solidify the stereotype about him -- that he's the white man's black candidate? Well, if Sharpton refuses to pander to the homophobic faction of the black church, why should anybody else?

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/10/26/obama/

[avrdream]

259. Thanks for that.

Bumping to continue to educate.

[CyberPieHole]

221. Kick for homophobe McClurkin

[Bluebear]

223. Day 61

[FrenchieCat]

226. Maybe he can wait three years?

that seems to be the length of time others took to apologize for 3,800 American deaths, uncounted numbers of Iraqi deaths and billions of dollars spent.

Three years seems to be considered more than a respectable time to wait to apologize for full forgiveness in some parts. :shrug:

[Bluebear]

228. So your answer to those who feel that they were sold out is to bring up another subject altogether.

As you say :shrug:

[ruggerson]

229. Don't you think you're taking this a little far?

This is yesterday's news, you know. WHat is your real motivation here?

;-)

[Bluebear]

230. And it was news *only* at DU.

:silly:

[FredScuttle]

234. And it's a dead horse, besides

Look! Over there! Another Spears child is preggers!

[ruggerson]

245. And we're being hateful to Obama

hateful, I tell you.

[FredScuttle]

251. poor Obama

he just wanted to reach out to religious bigots...it's God's work, don't you know

I'll slap myself on the wrist as penance

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

252. Hi

Please see post 231. I wrote a reply to it, but I should've been taking a nap. It's probably good enough, but not as strong as I'd like, so I think I'll put it aside until I'm feeling my oats again. In the meantime, well see (and perhaps post) for yourself.

[FreeState]

235. Injustice is injustice

most of us are just extremely disappointed in Mr. Obama who as a black man should know this. But then again he has yet to apologize for funding the war either which deserves its own thread.

[FredScuttle]

238. Divert, distract, dissemble

the three-prong defense by Obama supporters to do anything but confront the ugly truth that their man welcomed a bigot into his campaign and has yet to apologize.

[FreeState]

253. They appear to be using that for everything

I have seen so many post lately from Obama supporters that project its not even funny. Its all Hillary's fault - you cant say anything about Obama with out it ending up as "well Hillary is worse". Some excuse.

[FredScuttle]

254. You would think that a candidate who is trying so hard to distinguish himself from Hillary

and the other "establishment" candidates could fall back on something better, when called on this McClurkin debacle, than "All the other candidates do it too!"

[FreeState]

256. The only real change Mr Obama is for is making him resident of the Whitehouse n/t

[FredScuttle]

257. Exactly

When I hear people say he's a "strong advocate", I can only think that Obama is a strong advocate only for getting Obama elected.

So, then, he is just the same as every other politican out there...except he's the one who placed a bigot front and center in his campaign to win some bigot votes in a key primary state.

Obama '08: Getting Those Sweet, Sweet Primary Votes...By Any Means Necessary

[FrenchieCat]

261. So Obama doesn't get three years to wait prior to apologizing like

the shiny Populist DU hero? Why not? I mean, if you are talking about what's "fair". :shrug:

[FredScuttle]

262. Remind me again which other Dem candidate welcomed an "ex-gay" clown to host his event

and gave him a microphone and a stage to spew homophobic filth to a receptive audience of like-minded bigots?

[Bluebear]

260. Day 62

[William769]

263. And still waiting.

[FredScuttle]

266. Yup, still waiting

n/t

[FreeState]

267. I sent a polite email as suggested from one of his fans here

been two days on that - no reply even from a staffer

[Bluebear]

268. Don't hold your breath

[FreeState]

269. Im not...

its been 62 days already. He only cares about votes at this point apparently.

[FredScuttle]

272. Kicked for day 63

n/t

[ruggerson]

273. So still no apology?

I'm amazed.

His supporters have now taken to bald faced lying about the other candidates.

The politics of "rope a dope" continues.

[FredScuttle]

274. Politics as usual

I so love when Obama supporters make him out to be this saintly savior, an antidote to the poisonous, craven treachery of modern politics. He's shown himself to be every bit as craven as the next guy (or girl)

[DemKR]

278. im sure the days will add up to the 100's soon enough

[LanternWaste]

280. Odd... is Obama the only candidate that has yet to apologize for something?

Odd... is Obama the only Democratic candidate that has yet to apologize for something? If not, why fixate on him and only him-- wouldn't it be less disingenuous to call out all the mistakes of all the candidates and hold them to the same standard?

Although, that's only me presupposing you're being intellectually honest, though...

[FredScuttle]

281. What's odder is your obfuscation of the insult Obama committed

As of this writing, Obama is the only Democratic candidate who welcomed a bigot into his campaign and gave this bigot a starring role in one of his campaign events. I started this thread because he has yet to apologize for it.

Why would you have any concern over my intellectual honesty for asking why a so-called "progressive" candidate hired a bigot to spew homophobic filth at his campaign event and has yet to apologize for it?

[LanternWaste]

406. Then we can get to your other questions...

So.... is Obama the only candidate who has something to apologize for?

Then we can get to your other questions...

[Windy]

275. 5 years and almost 3 months since HRC IWR vote and no apology yet!

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237

[DemKR]

277. why should she apologize for BUSHS war

[FredScuttle]

279. and that has fuck all to do with Obama welcoming a bigot into his campaign

and refusing to apologize for his hand-picked "ex-gay" clown friend spewing homophobic filth from the stage at his campaign event.

[William769]

287. It's a desperate attempt at deflection.

[Bluebear]

282. And this has what to do in a thread about Obama?

[FredScuttle]

284. Kicked for day 64

Happy New Year!

[TeamJordan23]

285. Too bad most people do not give this story such credibility as you and other Obama haters do. nm

[FredScuttle]

286. "Credibility" has little to do with it

I think the word you're looking for is "attention"...or, perhaps, "concern". You know, concern that a so-called "progressive" candidate welcomed a bigot into his campaign and has yet to apologize for it.

Also, I take exception at being called an "Obama-hater". I do not hate Obama, but I do hate bigotry, homophobia and, well, hate. I have a profound lack of respect for those who would pander to such ignorance for a few measly votes.

[TeamJordan23]

288. Clinton has two SC co-chairs who supported the gay marraige amendment ban, should she apologize?

Your argument lacks credibility. Can you show me one specific homophobic statement that Obama (yes, the candidate) has actually made.

You are trying to infer guilt by association. Under your standards, should Clinton apologize for have co-chairs who also seem to be homophobic?

I don't because I am rational. I can tell the difference between reality and remote inference.

[Bluebear]

289. No, it's not guilt by association, it's guilt by HIRING McClurkin, not "associating" with him.

[hulklogan]

290. Apparently the new Obamaton talking points on this issue are

"Nobody cares about this story" and "Hillary should apologize for something too!!!"

and they wonder why he can't break 34% in any of the Iowa polls.

[TriMetFan]

291. I guess what you and others don't get is.......

that Obama knew that this guy wasn't only going to performed but was going to MC this fund raising event. Now Hillary's SC co-chairs are not singing and MCing a event to a bunch of anti-gays and there is the difference.
Obama lost our vote in my house hold because of this one issue. My spouse and I thought this man was going to be the next JFK/MLK type, and boy were we wrong.:cry:

[William769]

293. What Gay man left the Obama campaign under lets say suspicious circumstances

And now works for the Hillary campaign?

[FredScuttle]

312. Here's the joke of a statement released by the Obama campaign after the concert:

MCCLURKIN DOES NOT WANT TO CHANGE GAYS AND LESBIANS WHO ARE HAPPY WITH THEIR LIVES AND HAS CRITICIZED CHURCH LEADERS WHO DEMONIZE HOMOSEXUALS.

OBAMA DOES NOT AGREE WITH MCCLURKIN'S VIEWS ON GAYS.

yeah, not like "Obama renounces McClurkin's homophobia" or "Obama apologizes to the LGBT community for this horrific insult delivered straight from his campaign stage"...just wants us to know that he and the good Pastor Donnie have a disagreement about "gays". How inspiring :eyes:

[FredScuttle]

294. Kicked for day 65

n/t

[FreeState]

296. Ridiculous isnt it?

One of the things I cant stand about Mr. Bush is his inability to see his own faults - he never apologizes for his mistakes. He's cocky and used bigotry against GLBT people to win votes and elections.

Opps I forgot this is about Obama - whats the difference again? Do we really need more of the same in the Whitehouse? I mean by all reports Bush was very friendly with GLBT people until it came time to sell them out for votes - looks like Obama is cut from the same cloth. Change my ass.

[FredScuttle]

297. Any other candidate pulling this would be crucified, and rightfully so

why does Saint Obama get a pass?

[FreeState]

301. You know its been interesting to watch

Im not a Clinton fan or an Obama fan - but watching their supporters here has been interesting. If anything its made me more likely to support Hillary than Obama - its almost like they have an email list and get talking points each day to spread on the board - its like mental gymnastics gone mad. You can't even mention Obama without getting the .. "but but clinton" responce - like there are only two people running. If the Obama supporters really wanted to win hearts and minds they would attack other candidates - there are a lot of votes they could get from the "lesser" candidates - I'd wager its more than they could get from Hillary or Edwards combined. We will see how that changes with tomarrow - part of me can't wait until Feb 6th to just be done with some of this nonsense.

[Bluebear]

303. Day 66 now.

[ruggerson]

304. Happy Caucus Day

Maybe Obama will take a break from his whirlwind of activities to issue a two minute apology to the gay community in the United States for the outrage of cynically exploiting bigotry for votes.

Then again. Maybe he won't.

[peacetheonlyway]

305. Imagine the SLAP IN MY FACE as a lesbian progressive democrat

to have Kucinich, the man who has about 5 signs on my house and in my yard...

to have my dream candidate say "If I don't win" (reading tween lines he doesn't think he'll win iowa), "vote for Obama".

FUCK YOU VERY MUCH kucinich.

I"m outta here..


Biden, you're my man again.

[FredScuttle]

309. I'm thinking not until after the South Carolina primary

after all, can't risk offending those religious bigots and their sweet, sweet primary votes

[DURHAM D]

317. He can never apologize.

If he wins this election he will need to think ahead to 2012. He made a decision to lose our votes in order to get the votes of another minority. He will need them again and not us in 2012.

If he loses he will not apologize until he is certain that he will never seek the Presidency again - which will be never. He caught the fever.

[FredScuttle]

330. Sadly, yes

Political calculation is a harsh thing, ain't it?

[FredScuttle]

308. Duly noted

n/t

[killbotfactory]

306. It's because he hates gay people and wants them all to die

No one will be left alive after his reign of terror ends.

[FredScuttle]

310. Not at all my point

but I appreciate the sarcasm.

I don't think Obama hates LGBT or is, himself, a homophobe....but why did he welcome one into his campaign with open arms, give him a microphone and a stage to spew his bigoted filth and then defend him afterwards?

[killbotfactory]

314. You just think all his supporters who attended the rally

are bigots and morons. that's all. no big whoop.

[FredScuttle]

318. Well, let's see

PASTOR DONNIE MCCLURKIN, THE "EX-GAY" CLOWN: God delivererd me from homosexuality!

CROWD: YAAAAAY!!!!!!!!!!!


I think all his supporters who attended the rally and cheered that homophobic garbage are bigots and morons, yes. Any other things I can clear up for you?

[FredScuttle]

307. Welcome to Day 66

n/t

[FredScuttle]

311. Another good thread on this issue

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3934252

[MuseRider]

313. I like this.

Kinda like a protest thread.

Important topic. THIS thread is education, not giving a bigot a microphone and letting him spew.

Never forget, the campaign said that they got what they needed from it. :nuke:

[FredScuttle]

319. Inspiration from dbackjon upthread

He suggested this as a protest thread....someone else added it should be kicked until the primaries or Obama apologizes whichever comes first. Looks like the primaries.

For all the minimizing, apologizing and excuse-making for homophobia we're seeing in these McClurkin threads, for all the "Hillary does it too" deflection, for all the tone-desfness we're seeing from Obama supporters on these threads, it is nice to get this discussion out in the open and let people know that this insult (directly to the LGBT community, but also to straight Democrats like me who value equality and civil rights for all) will not go unanswered in this primary season.

[MuseRider]

320. It should never go unanswered

no matter where it comes from. I get lots of inspiration from you. It is difficult to see this kind of thing anywhere but here it just blows my mind.

You can't rationalize it away but it sure would have been a good opportunity for his supporters to push Obama to address this. I hope some of them did.

Kucinich can say whatever he wants, I could never vote for Obama now. I am even wondering about Kucinich because this is not anything he would ever abide. Maybe I was wrong about that.

[ruggerson]

321. I admire both you and fred

for standing up for what is right. Straight allies are so vital and important to our ultimate victory, and the two of you, amongst many, are greatly appreciated.

[MuseRider]

322. You are too kind.

To me it does not feel like it should be admirable, it just feels normal and right. Thank you though, it is always nice to hear.

:loveya: each and every one of you, even when we fight :P

[FredScuttle]

328. Exactly, MR

I'm standing up for what is right and I expect no kudos for doing so. Every Democrat should be doing this.

[bullwinkle428]

315. One of the most amazing things about this entire episode is

how Obama doesn't even realize how he was just USED by McClurkin! The ex-gay clown happily performed for Bush in 2004 during his re-election campaign, which helped to turn the tide for Bush specifically in terms of black Evangelicals...

"Bush masterfully tapped that homophobic sentiment in 2000 in part with McClurkin and even more masterfully in 2004 again with McClurkin and the top gun mega black preachers in Ohio and Florida. He tapped it so masterfully that Bush's naked pander to gay bashing with the GOP spawned anti-gay marriage initiative in Ohio did much to win over a big chunk of black evangelical leaning voter to Bush.

In fact, the great untold story of the 2004 presidential elections was the black evangelical vote.

Although black evangelicals still voted overwhelmingly for Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry, they gave Bush the cushion he needed to bag Ohio and win the White House. There were early warning signs that might happen. The same polls that showed black's prime concern was with bread and butter issues -- and that Kerry was seen as the candidate who could deliver on those issues -- also revealed that a sizeable number of blacks ranked abortion, gay marriage and school prayer as priority issues. Their concern for these issues didn't come anywhere close to that of white evangelicals, but it was still higher than that of the general voting public."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/earl-ofari-hutchinson/obama-should-repudiate-an_b_69244.html

Obama's sincere belief that McClurkin embraces his principles makes me wonder if the guy is simply far too gullible and naive to even be considered as capable of holding the highest office in the nation...

[FreeState]

316. "if the guy is simply far too gullible and naive to be considered as capable of holding the highest"

if the guy is simply far too gullible and naive to be considered as capable of holding the highest office...


Im there with you - he's way to green and it shows.

[bullwinkle428]

332. And now my fear is that he will feel the need to out-Jesus Huckabee

if he begins to think in terms of the general election - no pun intended, but God help us all if that ends up happening!

[readmoreoften]

324. Obama's either green or rotten. Either way he's leaving a nasty taste in my mouth.

[TheWraith]

323. You appear to be completely wrong.

For starters, McClurkin was a performer, not a speaker, and it was a gospel concert, not a campaign rally. Also, Obama wasn't there. McClurkin wasn't invited to make any comments on homosexuality, nor did he do so. He sang, which was why he WAS there, and to be honest, his past comments are pretty mild compared to anything you'll hear out of an honest to God gay basher.

If you expect a candidate to be responsible for everything ever said by anyone who supports them, you're in for a LONG wait.

[ruggerson]

325. It's you who are completely wrong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dUp16hFzY8

Now what will be interesting to see is if you are a decent enough human being to admit your error.

[William769]

327. He was the Emcee

It was a Fundraiser that Obama organized, want to try again?

[FredScuttle]

329. No, YOU appear to be completely wrong.

1) Pastor Donnie McClosetCase was named by Obama to be the star attraction of his South Carolina campaign event. Obama set up a concert of gospel singers (including fellow homophobes Mary, Mary) for his S.C. campaign. You can rest assured that this was no ordinary gospel concert....it was an official Obama campaign event and he provided a video introduction to the concert, proclaiming to the crowd of religious bigots he attracted that he was proud to host this "ex-gay" clown to his event.

2) Obama received a ton of criticism and input from LGBT activist groups in the week leading up to the concert. They registered their strongest objection at his naming of Donnie McClosetcase to appear at the event and warned that this "ex-gay" clown would spew homophobic filth from his campaign stage. Obama chose to ignore all of these entreaties and proceed with the concert.

3) Even though Donnie McClosetcase was hired to sing, as you say, he invariably commanded the final 1/2 hour of the concert to spew homophobic filth, the same hate speech that LGBT groups warned Obama would happen. He exclaimed to the enthusiastic crowd of like-minded bigots and morons that "God has delivered (him) from homosexuality"

4) His past comments, which you find so vanilla, include:

"Homosexuality is a curse"
"Homosexuality is killing our children"
"I'm at war with homosexuality"

If you're looking for a Democratic candidate who TRULY values equal rights for all Americans, I would suggest YOU'RE in for a long wait.

[MuseRider]

331. Well there is always Kucinich

but he is far too weird to vote for.

Edit: Oh yes, kick. After last night we really do need to continue this discussion, especially since there seem to be some here (even HERE) who still do not know what really happened or continue to minimize what it means to all of us as citizens. Damn, that hurt to type out.

[FredScuttle]

333. Kick for Day 67

Congrats to Senator Obama on his historic victory, but we're still waiting for an apology. Do the right thing, Senator!

[Renew Deal]

334. Kick for Day 3000+ with no apology from Clinton for signing DOMA

Congrats to Senator Clinton for her historic 3rd place finish, but we're still waiting for an apology from Bill Clinton. Do the right thing, Mr. President!

[jonnyblitz]

335. so start a thread about CLinton and keep it kicked.

'she did it too,mommy" is kind of juvenile and doesn't exempt Obama. good try though, dumbass.

[Renew Deal]

336. No, we can kick this one.

I don't want to exempt Obama. Let them fry together.

[MuseRider]

337. Each and every one of his

supporters needs to inundate him with mail, calls and email. Whatever means there are to contact him and make certain he knows they support him but this needs to happen. If that were to happen I would hope he would at least apologize directly without mincing words.

I think that as long as Obama is a front runner we need to continue this thread or one like it. Tyler Durden has a good one started now. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2591471&mesg_id=2591471

[Bluebear]

338. Here, here

[MuseRider]

339. Hi there!

Have you been missing for a few days? It seems I was thinking about you this morning and wondering. It could just be me, I have been laying around sick coming to occasionally to participate here. Hope you are well and thanks. Writing and demanding something be done to correct a very big wrong seems much more productive than trying to figure out ways to rationalize away bigotry but try to remain untainted by the moniker yourself.

[Bluebear]

340. Thank you . . .

Just an agonizingly busy work schedule lately. I'm here, well, and ready to keep talking about the issue that a lot of people want to dismiss as "nothing".

[MuseRider]

342. I wonder how long

we are going to be annoying people? My guess? Until we are TSed for being annoying ;) or until everyone finally realizes how hurtful this is and how important it is that we take care of this once and for all. I guess being annoying isn't all that bad.

I am glad you are well.

[CarbonDate]

344. As an atheist, I feel your pain.

Okay, well not really your pain, since you're straight....

But as an atheist, I've been troubled by Obama's pandering to religious fundamentalists, and this whole deal is a part of that larger process.

Thing is, as an NCO who served in Iraq, I'm more troubled by Clinton's pandering to the military-industrial complex.

As for Edwards? Well, he's shown the capability to evolve... or perhaps he's flip-flopping based on what popular opinion is at a given moment. I'm not sure. I do know that he voted for the Iraq War, and I remember his militant speech at the 2004 Democratic National Convention. But now he says he'll pull the troops out quickly. What to believe?

And the Republicans? Oy.

So you see my problem. I don't have a perfect candidate to support. All of them have what I regard to be very serious problems. But I have to support one of them, so I have to decide which problems bother me less. I've decided that our "global reach" policies (read: neo-imperialism) are what need to change the most. Obama isn't perfect, but he strikes me as the sort who'd be willing to talk first, bomb later rather than Hillary, who'd go the other way around. And Edwards is just such a wild card... he's learned his lesson on Iraq, but can he extrapolate that lesson to other areas of foreign policy? Remains to be seen.

[FredScuttle]

345. Kick for Day 68

n/t

[MuseRider]

346. That is a long time

to let this go. It will continue to fester unless it is addressed.

[Bluebear]

347. Kick for day 69

[FredScuttle]

349. Thanks for kicking in my absence

n/t

[FredScuttle]

351. Kick for Day 70

n/t

[MadBadger]

352. bored?

[FredScuttle]

354. Appalled

n/t

[MadBadger]

355. Grrrrr

[FredScuttle]

357. I'd be angry too

if my candidate welcomed a clown bigot to headline his event and said candidate refused to apologize for the hatred spewed by the bigot.

[Azathoth]

353. Here's a novel idea: instead of tearing down other candidates, support your own

We get the message: Obama hates gay people and is gonna throw them all under the bus. Fine. Now, tell us which candidate we should vote for, and why he/she is better on LGBT issues than Obama.

[FredScuttle]

356. Such hyperbole...

I don't think Obama hates gay people. I don't believe he's a homophobe. I don't hate Obama.

I'm undecided still...I know that I was not going to vote for Sen. Clinton in the primaries and I was looking at Obama and Edwards. Obama's decision to welcome a bigot into his campaign and his refusal to apologize for the homophobic filth spewed by this bigot under his banner is the main factor preventing me from jumping on the Obama bandwagon.

I'm sorry to disappoint you...I'm sure you were eager to post all sorts of evil-doing against the LGBT community by whichever candidate I was going to name, but that really doesn't excuse Obama's insult, does it? Or are you of the mindset that he's as big a bigot panderer as the rest of them?

[Azathoth]

358. So if he's a 'bigot panderer' like 'the rest of them', why the hate focused solely at him?

You say he doesn't hate gay people, he just "throws them under the bus." Sure...

You concede that I could find a laundry list of affronts to the LGBT community committed by almost any candidate you name, yet you focus solely on one guy, apparently obsessed with tearing him down and hurling hate and invective his way whenever his name comes up, despite the fact that his record on LGBT issues is every bit as progressive as Hillary's and Edwards'. Your message boils down to "This guy pissed me off one day, so every day from now I'm gonna remind people how much I hate him." That ain't constructive, and it certainly isn't going to convince people not to vote for Obama.

Now if you were suggesting an alternative, it might be a different story...

[FredScuttle]

359. Your reading comprehension needs some work

Once again: I don't hate Obama and I'm not obsessed with him. I would simply like to hear a genuine apology from the man for a decision that is completely inconsistent with the "progressive" values he professes to have.

[Azathoth]

360. Right, you're not obsessed with him, you've just been kicking the same thread for two weeks

You don't hate him, you just employ the most hyperbolic, hateful invective against him. Sure...

[FredScuttle]

361. I'd like to see an example of my "hyperbolic, hateful invective" against Obama

After all, I didn't get up on his campaign stage and say I'm at war with blacks...or that blacks were trying to kill our children. Or that God delivered me from being black.

I'm kicking this thread as a protest until Obama apologizes.

[riqster]

362. Hit the two-faced jackass where it hurts-in the ballot box

...by voting for the only Dem candidate who fully and clearly supports equal rights for all Americans-Dennis Kucinich.

Same-Sex Marriage: Kucinich is the only candidate who supports same-sex marriage. On his campaign website he says, "I believe that equality of opportunity should be afforded to all Americans regardless of race, color, creed or sexual orientation. For that reason I support the right of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered persons to have the full protections and rights afforded under civil law including the right to marry the person of their choice."




Oh...wait...he's not electable...so, let's vote for another candidate who will continue to take the votes of GBLT citizens for granted, and throw them under the bus. Yeah..... right.....

[Cronus Protagonist]

363. This is clearly what Obama means by being the uniter, not a divider

Where have I heard that before?

[Bluebear]

364. Day 71, NH primary day kick

[FredScuttle]

365. Yup, here we go again

I look forward to another day of being called a "Hillbot", a "troll", or "beating a dead horse"

[FreeState]

366. I've been called that too

even though I have links to Kucinich in my signature... go figure...

[racaulk]

367. Don't know if you've heard...

But now we're "whiny extremists."

:sigh:

[MuseRider]

373. Amazing, 71 days he has let this go.

It will not be a good thing to get thrown in his face by the Republicans if he gets the nomination. They will ride this as far as they can. It really would be in his best interests to apologize and it would only be the right thing to do. Why is the right thing to do so hard for some people?

[toughboy]

368. Wow. He should really apologize if he wants to unite people.

I'm really concerned that Senator Obama has so much Republican and Conservative support. You have to ask yourself why?

[Hekate]

369. Fact-check here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3996536#3996648

Yes,
Posted by FrenchieCat on Tue Jan-08-08 02:26 PM

Barack Obama and Gay Rights in Illinois: Barack Obama supported gay rights during his Illinois Senate tenure. He sponsored legislation in Illinois that would ban discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

Barack Obama in the United States Senate: Every two years the Human Rights Campaign, the largest national gay and lesbian organization, issues a scorecard for members of the Senate based on their sponsorship and voting on key issues of importance to gay and lesbian citizens. Barack Obama scored 89 out of 100% in the 2006 scorecard.
Here's how HRC rated Barack Obama:
-Barack Obama on Hate Crimes: Barack Obama co-sponsored legislation to expand federal hate crimes laws to include crimes perpetrated because of sexual orientation and gender identity.

-Employment Non-Discrimination: Barack Obama supports the Employment Non-Discrimination Act and believes it should be expanded to include sexual orientation and gender identity.

-Don't Ask, Don't Tell - Gays in the Military: Barack Obama believes we need to repeal the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy and allow gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military. His campaign literature says, "The key test for military service should be patriotism, a sense of duty, and a willingness to serve."

-Gay & Lesbian Adoption: Barack Obama believes gays and lesbians should have the same rights to adopt children as heterosexuals.

-Barack Obama and Gay Marriage/ Civil Unions: Although Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, he is against gay marriage. In an interview with the Chicago Daily Tribune, Obama said, "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

-Barack Obama did vote against a Federal Marriage Amendment and opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996.

-He said he would support civil unions between gay and lesbian

http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbianactivism/p/BarackObama.htm

[FredScuttle]

380. Shocking, then, isn't it?

That this "champion of the LGBT community" would be so craven and pandering as to hire an "ex-gay" clown to headline his campaign event in South Carolina, eh?

- over the protestations and warnings from numerous LGBT groups about this "ex-gay" clown
- in a state where he was previously trailing Clinton among black voters....and that his choice of entertainment just happened to be a huge star in the gospel field, particularly with religous bigots who agree with him that "homosexuality is a curse" and that "homosexuality is killing our children"

The fact that's relevant here is that Obama has not yet apologized for the bigoted statements his hand-picked "ex-gay" clown made at his campaign event, under his banner. Does Obama agree with Pastor McClurkin that God is able to deliver people from homosexuality, like it was the plague or some horrible affliction?

[Thrill]

370. At some point, You might want to get a life

[FredScuttle]

379. I have a life

I take pride in calling out bigotry and coddling of bigotry by so-called "progressives"

What's your excuse?

[Bluebear]

384. How condescending and cavalier.

[Hekate]

371. Fact-check here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3996536#3996648

Yes,
Posted by FrenchieCat on Tue Jan-08-08 02:26 PM

Barack Obama and Gay Rights in Illinois: Barack Obama supported gay rights during his Illinois Senate tenure. He sponsored legislation in Illinois that would ban discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

Barack Obama in the United States Senate: Every two years the Human Rights Campaign, the largest national gay and lesbian organization, issues a scorecard for members of the Senate based on their sponsorship and voting on key issues of importance to gay and lesbian citizens. Barack Obama scored 89 out of 100% in the 2006 scorecard.
Here's how HRC rated Barack Obama:
-Barack Obama on Hate Crimes: Barack Obama co-sponsored legislation to expand federal hate crimes laws to include crimes perpetrated because of sexual orientation and gender identity.

-Employment Non-Discrimination: Barack Obama supports the Employment Non-Discrimination Act and believes it should be expanded to include sexual orientation and gender identity.

-Don't Ask, Don't Tell - Gays in the Military: Barack Obama believes we need to repeal the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy and allow gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military. His campaign literature says, "The key test for military service should be patriotism, a sense of duty, and a willingness to serve."

-Gay & Lesbian Adoption: Barack Obama believes gays and lesbians should have the same rights to adopt children as heterosexuals.

-Barack Obama and Gay Marriage/ Civil Unions: Although Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, he is against gay marriage. In an interview with the Chicago Daily Tribune, Obama said, "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

-Barack Obama did vote against a Federal Marriage Amendment and opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996.

-He said he would support civil unions between gay and lesbian

http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbianactivism/p/BarackObama.htm

[Tektonik]

372. You forgot to add something

Barack Obama pandered to homophobes in South Carolina by trotting an 'ex-gay' singer so he could get votes. He threw gays under the bus just to get evangelical votes.

[FreeState]

374. You left off the last line on your cut and paste job

"Giving them a set of basic rights would allow them to experience their relationship and live their lives in a way that doesn't cause discrimination," Obama said. "I think it is the right balance to strike in this society."
Sources: Chicago Daily Tribune, National Gay and Lesbian Task Force

Yeah you read that right - like we are 3/5th human or something...

[Bluebear]

375. Just what I need, a "fact check" from frenchie cat

:silly:

[Laughing Mirror]

376. Civil unions "a failed experiment" but the closet homophobe's last refuge

We do not want civil unions. Civil unions are not civil rights. Civil unions confer second-class status, and thank you, we already have that.

Further, civil unions do not work, except maybe to ease some straight peoples' conscience.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=221&topic_id=58053

They were designed to give same-sex couples all the benefits of marriage by a different name, but civil unions in New Jersey are a "failed experiment," the president of the state's largest lawyers' organization said last night.

"They have been shown to perpetuate a second-class legal status," Lynn Newsome, president of the New Jersey State Bar Association told a state commission evaluating whether New Jersey's seven- month-old civil unions law is working.

Calling the law "burdensome and flawed," Newsome said the 17,000-member bar association supports "as one of its highest priorities" legislation allowing same- sex couples to marry.

The civil union law was passed to comply with last October's ruling by the state Supreme Court that same-sex couples are entitled to all the benefits and obligations that state law confers on married couples.

...

Even before the law took effect, gay rights organizations were complaining that civil unions carried a second-class status and would fail to ensure equality for same-sex couples.

[fightindonkey]

377. Obama Then Telling Us To Treat Homophobes With Dignity, Was The Topper!

[FredScuttle]

378. Day 72, post-NH primary kick

n/t

[Beausoir]

381. Kick.

[William769]

382. I'll see your kick

:kick: :kick:

[FreeState]

383. And Ill do the honors again :) n/t

[Clintonista2]

385. Kickety-Kick

[William769]

386. Day 73.

[FreeState]

387. AS if that was not bad enough go check out Obama's web site

why are GLTB rights not under Civil Rights? There is a section for GLBT under "people" but not under Civil Rights - not even a word of gay rights under Civil Rights.

[FredScuttle]

389. Kick for Day 74

n/t

[Ignis]

393. Thanks for keeping this in the (DU) public eye, Fred.

I'm sure many would like to sweep this under the rug, but it matters.

It matters a lot.

[meegbear]

390. kick

[Clintonista2]

391. I'll second that

[William769]

392. I'll see your kick and raise another.

[Clintonista2]

394. Meow!

[Bluebear]

395. Day 75 kick

[NMMNG]

396. d00d, cut it out

You're only doing this cuz you're white. :sarcasm:

[Bluebear]

397. I'm also a white liar.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2662392&mesg_id=2664505

[NMMNG]

398. Of course you are.

You're from New Hampshire. :P

[Bluebear]

401. NH kick

[Tektonik]

399. kick for justice

[Renew Deal]

400. Kick for Day 3000+ with no apology from Clinton for signing DOMA

We're still waiting for an apology from Bill Clinton. Do the right thing, Mr. President!

[FredScuttle]

402. Kick for Day 76

n/t

[rhyden77]

403. Bridge to Nowhere

If you hate this present administration, please go to this link on Youtube and hear a song I wrote called "Bridge to Nowhere". This explains our country's frustrations with this present administration. Don't miss it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw44-sFLuEw

Randy

[FredScuttle]

404. Kick for Day 77

n/t

[kid a]

407. you , sir, are an idiot, and not much higher on my list than a moran

i don't give a shit if it was day 6,000.
put your fucking efforts into building a dem candidate up, and not (pathetically)trying to tEAR one down.

i have read and totally understand Obama's stance on this as well as his position on gay issues.

he will fight for your rights!!! as well as mine.

[IndianaJones]

408. to party? nt.

[FredScuttle]

409. I'd rather Party For My Right To Fight

[FredScuttle]

410. Funny way to demonstrate how he will "fight" for our rights

when he hires an "ex-gay" clown bigot to host his campaign event....and this event just happens to be in the key primary state of South Carolina, where he was trailing Clinton among black voters at the time. And after numerous LGBT groups warned him this was a bad, bad idea to give this bigot a microphone at an officially sanctioned campaign event. And he still has not apologized for welcoming a bigot into his campaign or for the homophobic filth this bigot spewed at the event.

If you think Obama won't sell you out AGAIN for political expediency....well, then I consider it a badge of honor to be called an "idiot" by you.

[William769]

411. I beg to differ.

[Bluebear]

412. Likewise, I'm sure.

[Rockholm]

415. Kick. Kick, and KICK.

Which candidate are you building up?

[FredScuttle]

413. Kick for Day 78

n/t

[toughboy]

414. .

[FredScuttle]

416. Kick for Day 79

n/t

[FreeState]

417. Somehow you always get the kick

what are you staying up to kick it first? LOL :) FYI Obama's campaign just called me asking for money - how they got my name and number they would not say - but the woman on the phone said she would pass along my concerns - I doubt it but maybe he will actually notice us uppity gays are pissed.

[FredScuttle]

418. Naw....usually first thing in the morning

I'm giving my dough to the Lee Mercer in 2008 campaign.

[Bluebear]

419. 'the woman on the phone said she would pass along my concerns'

:rofl:

[FreeState]

422. I know I know... sad isnt it... n/t

[FredScuttle]

420. Kick for Day 80

n/t

[terrya]

421. There's not going to be any apology from Obama.

So, if he's the nominee, we GLBT Democrats just need to "get over it". So sayeth the Obama supporters here.

[FredScuttle]

423. Kick for Day 81

n/t

[racaulk]

424. Kicking again n/t

[Solon]

425. I'd like to see an apology from Obama's homophobic supporters on DU as well...

but they follow their leader, no apologies for any of their atrocious behavior.

[racaulk]

427. Yep

All we will get are the "But Clinton did it too!" responses.

:eyes:

[William769]

426. Day 81.

[Bluebear]

431. And 82.

[Gloria]

428. What would Reagan do??

[Bluebear]

429. Indeed.

[William769]

430. Apparently that same as Obama.

[robbedvoter]

432. The Reagan strategy: find a minority to "optimistically" beat on...

[pampango]

433. I have got to Hide this thread, since it keeps popping up. n/t

[Bluebear]

434. You do that. Day 83.

[Bluebear]

435. Day 84

[FrenchieCat]

436. Obama is building bridge between those who don't agree......

But what are you doing about any of this? Nothing but instigating!

Excerpt from speech given on MLK day at King's church.

For most of this country's history, we in the African-American community have been at the receiving end of man's inhumanity to man. And all of us understand intimately the insidious role that race still sometimes plays – on the job, in the schools, in our health care system, and in our criminal justice system.

And yet, if we are honest with ourselves, we must admit that none of our hands are entirely clean. If we're honest with ourselves, we'll acknowledge that our own community has not always been true to King's vision of a beloved community.

We have scorned our gay brothers and sisters instead of embracing them. The scourge of anti-Semitism has, at times, revealed itself in our community. For too long, some of us have seen immigrants as competitors for jobs instead of companions in the fight for opportunity.

Every day, our politics fuels and exploits this kind of division across all races and regions; across gender and party. It is played out on television. It is sensationalized by the media. And last week, it even crept into the campaign for President, with charges and counter-charges that served to obscure the issues instead of illuminating the critical choices we face as a nation.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/rospars/CGxG9#comments

[Solon]

437. Building bridges for what purpose?

These people he's pandering to are no better than the KKK or other hate groups. What can be accomplished by pandering to them?

[jonnyblitz]

440. building bridges? please. how about PANDERING for votes. nt

[avrdream]

438. Bumping to see how many nasty swear words I can get out of Glendale man.

Pay attention.

[racaulk]

439. Kick

I bet you'll be called a "worthless c*nt" any time now...

[avrdream]

449. Nah, the mods tombstoned him.

But I might as well get a free kick out of this.

[ProSense]

441. Hillary's Donnie McClurkins

Hillary's Donnie McClurkins

[Major Hogwash]

443. Day 1927: Still no apology from Hillary for her vote for Iraq War

Maybe I should start a thread like that.

[Bluebear]

444. In other words, gay issues don't mean shit to you.

Change the subject.

[Major Hogwash]

450. Getting the killing stopped in Iraq is more important than an apology for some nitwit that spoke for

Obama.
That was a nice try to make me look bad here - accusing me of not caring about gay issues.

But, the fact that people are getting killed daily in Iraq is more important than all of the other issues.

Gay people have just as much right to speak their mind at DU as other people.
But, to constantly bump his own thread demanding an apology from someone who is not even a forum member is rather lame.

He's made his point.
But, he doesn't have to be obnoxious about it.

However, I'm not a one-issue voter, like Fred seems to be. It seems to me he doesn't care if Hillary gets elected and the Iraq War continues for another 4 years. It seems to me that if Hillary gets elected that Fred will be able to live happily ever after.

While other people are being killed in a war that Hillary voted for and still refuses to apologize for.
Hillary even voted for the Kyl/Lieberman amendment, so I think she would like to see the war in the Middle East expand.
She may not be a signatory of the PNAC agenda, but she sure as hell acts like she agrees with it!

By the way, I wouldn't vote for Lieberman if he were in Hillary's shoes either.
Or Obama.
Or Edwards.
Or Kerry.
Or even JFK!

You may think that is a stupid position to have, and that is your right.
But, we need to get out of Iraq as soon as possible.
Yet, Hillary doesn't want to leave Iraq.

[Bluebear]

452. I stand by my post. You're changing the subject & it appears you could care less about gay issues.

Far better to start your own thread about Hillary and the Iraq War, which, by the way, gay people are against too than to barge into this thread with your post.

[totodeinhere]

467. The point is...

that while gay issues are very important, they are not the only important issues. The Iraq situation is also a very important issue.

We are left with a dilemma. Obama accepted support from a homophobe. Clinton voted to authorize the war in Iraq. And neither Obama nor Clinton has apologized. So in other words, both have black marks on their records.

But you expect us to oppose Obama because of his accepting support from a homophobe, but you make no mention of opposing Clinton for her support for authorizing the Iraq war. That just doesn't make any sense to me. And then because someone brings up Clinton's support for the war you blithely assume that they do not care about gay issues. However, wouldn't it be just as legitimate for me to say that you don't care about Clinton's vote to authorize the war? Why is one issue more important than the other? Why can't you accept that both issues are important? Couldn't it be that we care about both gay issues and Iraq? If that's the case, how can we only oppose Obama over the gay issue yet not oppose Clinton over the Iraq issue?

[TankLV]

445. Yep - and it's becomming a HABIT!

one offense is bad enough - two or more and it becomes a PATTERN...

and no, obamabots, we won't point out where, we have gone this one on MANY THREADS here - just pick one and educate YOURSELF...

[FredScuttle]

448. Kick for Day 85

Thanks to Bluebear and William769 for kicking in my absence

[Tektonik]

451. bump for McClurkin and Caldwell

[polichick]

453. Cool thread...

We need a couple of these for the boomer apology and the Reagan apology ~ but I ain't holdin' my breath.

[FredScuttle]

454. Kick for Day 86

three days from the S.C. primary...still time to apologize, Senator!

[awaysidetraveler]

457. Cut off your face to spite your nose.

He's spoken out in favor of civil unions that act in all legal respects like marraiges--including the right to adopt children as a couple. He used that platform to get elected in 2004, when he debated and defeated a real bigot.

Now, according to your article, he's trying to compromise with gay rights activists.

"A gay South Carolina pastor, Andy Sidden, gave the prayer that opened the event, a compromise the Obama campaign put together after McClurkin's appearance was attacked by gay rights activists."

Obama's trying. You might not like how he's trying, but he is trying to offer a compromise that would actually and substantially improve your rights: civil unions that act like legal marraiges, and adoption rights for gays and lesbian couples.

[FredScuttle]

458. Blah, blah, blah.....Obama still kept the bigot on the concert bill

So Obama's "compromise" after getting a firestorm of criticism from LGBT groups for placing a notorious "ex-gay" clown bigot on his campaign event is to hire a WHITE gay pastor who gave a short speech BEFORE THE CONCERT BEGAN when the arena wasn't even full? And then disappeared this pastor completely and offered not a single word in contrast to the hateful bile spewed by the "ex-gay" clown during the actual concert?

What happened to the LGBT groups' request of Obama to pull Pastor Donnie, the "ex-gay" clown from the event completely?
What happened to the BLACK gay pastors who offered to appear to balance the "ex-gay" clown?
Why didn't Obama give the gay pastor as prominent a role in the concert as he did the "ex-gay" clown?

Obama is trying, all right....He's trying to pander to bigots for votes. This McClurkin episode is a red flag to all of us that, underneath the flowery rhetoric, Obama is just another craven politician, willing to throw any one of a number of groups of Democrats under the bus just to win some primary votes.

And, for the record, I'm straight, but I'm disgusted when a so-called "progressive" candidate slaps our LGBT brothers and sisters in the face and then refuses to apologize for it.

Remember - "separate but equal" is not equal....it's separate. None of us should rest until all men and women have equal rights under the law.

[mondo joe]

471. More like "cut off the gays to save your votes". NT

[FredScuttle]

459. Kick for Day 87

n/t

[racaulk]

460. Kicking again n/t

[IndianaJones]

461. can I get an amen? nt.

[FredScuttle]

462. You'll get an "amen" and a "praise Jesus" out of Obama, but not an apology

n/t

[desi]

463. Kick for NO Bigots

and no.empty.suit.

[ProSense]

464. Hillary's Donnie McClurkins

Hillary's Donnie McClurkins

[FredScuttle]

465. Thanks for the kick

n/t

[FredScuttle]

466. Kick for Day 88

n/t

[TeamJordan23]

468. Thanks Fred, I was wondering.. when will we see your next racist thread?

Such as when you called Obama a white man with a tan.

[FredScuttle]

469. I called him a "resurrected Ronald Reagan with a tan"

Just to set the record straight.

[TeamJordan23]

470. Thanks for admitting your racism. nm

[William769]

472. Actually he was being to kind.

[FredScuttle]

473. I tremble before your mighty self-importance

n/t

[FredScuttle]

474. Kick for Day 89

Don't endorse bigotry, South Carolina.

[Bluebear]

475. Congrats, Rev. McClurkin on your South Carolina win.

[racaulk]

476. Kick for Day 90

n/t

[cboy4]

477. Oh my. 90 days?

:wow:

[racaulk]

478. Kick for Day 91

n/t

[Bluebear]

479. And counting. Waiting for HOPE and CHANGE.

[Clintonista2]

481. Obama HOPES that he can CHANGE gays...

[NashVegas]

480. Okay.

I think maybe I'm finally starting to get it.

[Rockholm]

482. Kick. How Many Days Today?

[racaulk]

483. Kick for Day 92

n/t

[IndianaJones]

484. haven't you heard...this is one of those stupid topics, like handshakegate. nt.

[Bluebear]

485. Time flies.

[Clintonista2]

486. Kick for day 92

[racaulk]

487. Kick for Day 93

n/t

[Tektonik]

488. Day 94

Hopefully by day 100 he'll be out of the race.

[racaulk]

489. Kick for Day 95

n/t

[Bluebear]

490. I won't forget.

[CyberPieHole]

491. Shameful and disgustin PANDERING to the religious bigots...

Shame on him.

[annie1]

493. really disgusting.

[racaulk]

492. Kick for Day 96

n/t

[racaulk]

494. Kick for Day 97

n/t

[Bluebear]

495. Indeed.

[LadyVT]

496. thank you.

[racaulk]

497. Kick for Day 98

n/t

[Jamastiene]

498. And an extra

:kick: just to remind people. :thumbsup:

[racaulk]

499. Kick for Day 99, Super Tuesday.

n/t

[racaulk]

500. kick