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"Hillary’s Hidden Hand" - Newsweek ... Do we really want this kind of 'Experience'?

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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 03:33 PM
Original message
"Hillary’s Hidden Hand" - Newsweek ... Do we really want this kind of 'Experience'?
http://www.newsweek.com/id/81600/page/1

Is Hillary Clinton truly as "experienced" as she makes herself out to be—and is the experience she gained as First Lady the kind that matters in choosing a president?
...
She had no official position or specified duties, yet she was so involved in decision making that the president's staff called her "the Supreme Court" because they knew she was the last person he consulted before making up his mind.
...
Hillary enjoyed operating as a hidden hand. While giving instructions as First Lady, she was known to tell her staff, "Don't leave any fingerprints." White House adviser George Stephanopoulos recalled her explaining, "You have to be much craftier behind the scenes."
...
Because she had no clear place in the White House hierarchy, Hillary left staff members to wonder whether she was freelancing or acting on her husband's authority. She would routinely turn up at West Wing meetings, and her confrontational style "had a real chilling effect," said a senior presidential aide who—like several other officials and friends quoted in this article—spoke freely about private matters on condition of anonymity. "People were scared of her," said Clinton aide Robert Boorstin. "You did not cross Hillary." Even the president "would try to avoid fighting with her if he could, deflecting her if he could," said Nussbaum. Her dissatisfaction with the White House Travel Office staff led to their abrupt dismissal in May 1993, causing a furor over allegations of cronyism and the absence of due process. Testifying under oath, Hillary said she had "no role in the decision" to fire the employees. Yet the Office of Independent Counsel later concluded that "overwhelming evidence" showed she had played a role and that her "statement to the contrary" was "factually false."
...
Hillary was widely criticized for making the health task-force deliberations secret, insisting on pushing her proposal as an all-or-nothing package and targeting the health-care establishment as "the enemy" to be fought with a "war room." When Bill tried to make the plan more flexible, he had to defer to her, in part because of their implicit marital bargain, in which Bill ceded her power as a trade-off for his history of infidelity. In July 1994, he was urged to accept a compromise plan with less than the universal coverage that Hillary wanted. When he unexpectedly told a group of governors in Boston that he would be willing to take 95 percent, Hillary immediately called her husband. "What the f––– are you doing up there?" she screamed, according to a West Wing adviser who was in her office at the time. "I want to see you as soon as you get back." The next morning the president not only recanted his statement but apologized.
...
In May 1993 the president wanted to intervene to stop the ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia. He initially agreed to bomb Serbian military positions and help the Muslims arm themselves, but quickly reversed himself when NATO allies balked. The key factor in the president's shift was Hillary. She viewed the situation as "a Vietnam," recalled a Hillary friend. But two years later, after more than 250,000 deaths, Hillary became "an advocate for the use of force in Bosnia," according to one of the president's advisers. Her change of heart was partly political. A senior State Department official convinced her that the bloodshed overseas could grow worse and become an issue for the president in his run for re-election in 1996.
...
There is no doubt that Hillary's proximity to the Oval Office has given her a familiarity with the presidency that is unsurpassed by any of her rivals. She knows the mechanics of the White House and the demands of the job. She also has plenty of firsthand experience managing political crises. Would that make her a better president? The answer to that may turn on larger concerns—whether her vision suits the times, whether she can handle the pressure when the buck truly stops with her and whether she has learned to learn from her mistakes.

*

Is this what America needs?

I don't think so. How about you?


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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. I find articles like this very disturbing. No, she is not what Ameica needs. nt
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
51. The sky is falling
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #51
124. Freerepublic has a thread with the same name that says the same thing
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1943275/posts

Hmmmmm.... I wonder....I wonder...

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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #124
130. I've never posted at FR, nor would I. I am a Progressive Democrat so I post here.
Does it truly make you feel more secure to think that all those opposed to Hillary are Repukes?

Keep on believing that and you are in for a rude awakening on January 4th.

Does attacking my motives change the facts presented in the article in Newsweek?
hmmm.... I wonder... I wonder

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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #51
125. Double post
Edited on Wed Dec-26-07 11:14 AM by niceypoo
self delete
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. I don't think so.
But I also think she's got a lot of admirable qualities- though you'd be hard pressed to know that from this article.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. No, and no I don't.
Be prepared for a few people to tell you this whole article bullshit.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. but can they disprove the events it describes? No.
Edited on Tue Dec-25-07 03:46 PM by JackORoses
Hillary's greatest weakness is for people to see her true actions rather than her lofty intentions.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Maybe I wasn't clear enough-
I agree with you.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. oh, I know. I wholeheartedly agree with you, too.
Edited on Tue Dec-25-07 04:34 PM by JackORoses
I was addressing those who will call the article BS.

Sorry for the confusion.
;)
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. From the source paying Karl Rove to write for them.... nt
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. From the source also paying Marcos Moulitsa to write for them. n/t
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DeanDem10 Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
140. Yes, this is Rovian allright
It is Rovian in its tactics and it then wraps things inside out and suggests Hillary is the Rovian. A real piece of work here.

Edwards for President (But this is unfair to Hillary). I can't support her. But we should really overwhelm Newsweek with mail on this one.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #140
146. She's not my first choice, either. But this stinks. nt
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. I read this article online early this morning. No surprises, except that
it appears in a mainstream magazine. Expect the brigades to denounce it as a vast RW conspiracy. Excellent article.
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antiimperialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
7. Why didn't Newsweek publish these kinds of hit pieces against Bush in 2000 or 2004? nt
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Well, they're sceerd o'Cheney and his cohorts are too wimpy to speak - even
anonymously - what cowards!!
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. exactly. democrats get bashed constantly while republicans get a free ride
bush the lesser was 10 times worse than any of the democratic candidates, but did newscreak ever write a story about how bush the lesser failed at everything he did; got bailed out by poppy and cronies; violated securities law, drug laws, military law; election law; and on and on; and does america really need this kind of leadership?

no, they all made out as if this connecticut blue-blood or wealth and priviledge was somehow the real-deal ordinary texas everyman and just what america needed after clinton's 8 years of peace and prosperity -- and thank cod THAT national nightmare is over!

:eyes:
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #15
108. Actually, this article describes the Hillary that I see in the debates
and in her campaign. She does not seem to me to have the personality I want to see in a president. She is too vindictive for my tastes.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #108
111. big picture, dude!
my comment and the one i was replying to were focused on how democrats are treated differently from republicans in the msm.

quibble about choice of democrats all you want, but the real battle is trying to get equal and fair coverage in the national media.

negative bashing of democratic candidates serves, above all, the interests of republicans.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. Newsweek's Michael Isikoff's claim to fame was digging up dirt on Bill Clinton.
Edited on Tue Dec-25-07 04:22 PM by oasis
He gleefully plastered in newsprint stories of "The blue dress" and Paula Jones and any other Clinton misstep he could conjure up.

After many months of feverishly attempting to keep Clinton scandals on the front page, Isikoff was sued by Julie Hyatt Steele for fabricating the Kathleen Wiley story.

With the exception of Eleanor Clift, the Newsweek staff is made up of a bunch of tabloid hacks.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #23
43. Wasn't there just a positive story about Edwards last week with him on the cover of Newsweek
Edited on Tue Dec-25-07 04:59 PM by jenmito
called, "The Sleeper"?
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #43
66. Dunno. Years ago, I dropped my subscription to "Newsweek" for reasons stated. (eom)
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #66
77. You don't need a subscription to Newsweek to know about that. It was all over the news.
You DO watch the news, don't you?
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #77
109. Why would a puff piece in a weekly news magazine be "all over the news"?
Edited on Wed Dec-26-07 04:01 AM by oasis
:shrug:
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #109
132. He was on the cover of Newsweek. It WAS all over the news. It was taken as an endorsement by some.
Don't you watch the news?
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #132
144. "It was taken as an endorsement by some". Is that how the "news"
reported it? Sheesh :eyes:
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #144
145. I wrote about it at the time here and named names. I don't remember which TH said it...
Edited on Wed Dec-26-07 03:49 PM by jenmito
but all the news channels were at least showing it and talking about the article and him. And for you to claim you didn't even SEE it on the news is incredible to me.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #77
148. Well, now, that's an interesting question
Is one to infer that if the poster doesn't watch TV, he/she is poorly informed? Snort! I think not. I haven't gotten near a TV in about 20 years and I am one of the most informed Americans you will find!
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. Yes.
Its a tough job, and she is up to it.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
26. can we not just elect an honest and open candidate for once?
why must we always compromise ourselves?

I will always choose an above-board President who speaks the truth openly,

to a manipulator of public opinion, who works behind the scenes, who tells you only enough to get you to do what they want you to do, who makes decisions based on Politics rather than Principle
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Judging by the Clinton administration
Edited on Tue Dec-25-07 04:37 PM by Jim4Wes
one of the most open in history, I do not share your concerns.

The Clinton-Gore administration launched the first official White House website on 21 October 1994.<29><30> It was followed by three more versions, resulting in the final edition launched in 2000.<31><32> The White House website was part of a wider movement of the Clinton administration toward web-based communication. According to Robert Longley, "Clinton and Gore were responsible for pressing almost all federal agencies, the U.S. court system and the U.S. military onto the Internet, thus opening up America's government to more of America's citizens than ever before. On 17 July 1996, President Clinton issued Executive Order 13011 - Federal Information Technology, ordering the heads of all federal agencies to fully utilize information technology to make the information of the agency easily accessible to the public."<33[br />
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton#First_term.2C_1993.E2.80.931997
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. why won't they release Hillary's White House records then? did you forget about that?
Edited on Tue Dec-25-07 04:41 PM by JackORoses
and what of the Hillary quote above, "Don't leave any fingerprints ...You have to be much craftier behind the scenes."

that sounds really open and honest to me.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Not at all
Again, Clinton has released more than previous Presidents IIRC.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. not about Hillary's activities
Edited on Tue Dec-25-07 04:45 PM by JackORoses
and how does the fact that Bill has released more than other Presidents qualify Hillary as open and honest.

She's the one with the Invisible Touch, right?
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. If I recall Bill C said that her itineraires were being transcribed
and would be released in January. I think your concern is overdone.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. oh that's great, should we expect them before the Primaries or after?
Edited on Tue Dec-25-07 04:53 PM by JackORoses
what? they won't be ready in time for Democrats to use in their decision-making process? What a shame.

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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. I don't work for the National Archives. Sorry. nt
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. way to pass the buck, you remind me of the Hillary, herself
I suppose you believe the timing is coincidental?
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. I believe
that as pressure was put on them by their opponents, they have attempted to speed up a typically slow process.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. but it happens just too late to matter, like Hillary's regret for her IWR vote etc.
Why were they locked away in the first place? Why did it take political pressure to get them released?
Why was this vital documentation of Hillary's 'experience' kept from the voters who needed it?

Perhaps, they do not cast the most flattering light on Hillary. Wouldn't that be something?

This article seems to be the tip of the iceberg.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Personally I think
more is known about the Clintons than most politicians. I suggest that many Americans agree with me.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #46
149. LOL
Are you expecting the poster to just regurgitate the files for you?
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #34
96. so WHERE are Hillary's papers?
Seems more than a little DELIBERATE to keep them hidden until after her shot at the Presidency. What is she hiding?
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #96
112. Where R Obama's?
claims he DOES NOT have ANY....HA!
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #30
91. Hillary is NOT Bill. n/t
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rufus dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #30
98. Jimmy Carter didn't have a Website!
What a conniving prick. :sarcasm:

Next you are going to tell me that Lincoln didn't support building interstate highways.
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Plucketeer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #30
100. Open?
I'm having trouble with that description. It all goes back to discerning what the meaning of the word "is" is.
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hughee99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #30
120. Having a website does not make one open and honest...
The current white house has a website, as does Halliburton, Blackwater, the CIA, and the PNAC.
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Faux pas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
11. No America doesn't need a bush lite dressed in a pantsuit and
practical shoes. No Way Hillary is 44.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
80. From a quick skim it seems that Hillary was the one firmly behind Universal Health Care
And from what this says she did not want her husband to throw anyone overboard in order to get a deal. That's not Bush-lite.

So much for the meme that all she did as First Lady was serve tea and cookies, at least that one should be retired.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #80
85. Noone said she served tea and cookies. From her own statements, she doesn't like to bake
What we are saying is that her time as First Lady is not Executive experience.
It does not qualify her to be President.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #85
134. If it does, then Socks will be in charge of all the Zoos.
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #85
155. What's "noone"?
Edited on Thu Dec-27-07 03:14 AM by Andromeda
Hillary is more qualified than Obama or Edwards to start working from day one when she is elected. She is the only one of the top three I would trust with my life and the life of my loved ones.

You're just full of SH** when you say she has no experience. The word "experience" used loosely mean nothing in itself and seems to be very popular being bandied about here on DU.

Many people jealous of the Clintons and those who have made it their life's work to destroy them are now writing more articles about Hillary, whining about her "experience" or lack thereof. The closer she comes to winning the nomination the more vicious and petty are the attacks on her.

For gawd's sake I wish you anti-Hillary zealots would STFU!
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #80
113. Being a power behind the throne is not being a leader. Further, is she an 'agent of change"
Edited on Wed Dec-26-07 08:35 AM by cryingshame
as she's refashioned herself lately or a throw-back to the nineties?
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #113
150. Honestly, even though she's last on my list of desired candidates,
I would be grateful to have a throwback from the nineties. I'd prefer someone who will take us gracefully into the the 21st century (the troglodytes in the WH now have yet to do that) but geez, between the 80s, 90s and the 00s, I'll take the 90s for $100 please, Alex. I mean really, I'd be willing to settle for having some breathing room for a while and I think any of the Democrats will at least give us that!
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #80
114. delete
Edited on Wed Dec-26-07 08:33 AM by cryingshame
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Faux pas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #80
154. Okay then, how about I just don't like her? Too hawkish, too
hooked up corporately and too far to the right for my taste.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
12. yeah, she's a politician and she's good at it
tell me something I don't know and tell me why this is a bad thing....
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. No kidding
We're electing a President here, not a virgin to toss into a volcano.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. lol nt
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. we're electing a Leader here, not a Conman or Conwoman
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
74. The more Hillary supporters denounce Obama's manhood,
the less I feel about voting for her in November.

How do you know Obama is going to lie down and not respond to GOP attacks?

I didn't know DU had become ESP Underground.
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asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. Who was in the Office of Independent Counsel
at the time?
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. totally impartial and unbiased republican hacks, of course.
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
17. She'll be a great POTUS
Edited on Tue Dec-25-07 04:16 PM by wlucinda
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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
18. More of the same is not what America needs.....
Fuck all this secret shit. Open government is what is needed.
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LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
20. I absolutely cringe at a Hillary Presidency, she gives off the vibs...
Edited on Tue Dec-25-07 04:21 PM by LakeSamish706
that this story talks about. As far as I can see if you want more of a George W Bush White House, vote for Hillary. Another thing that comes to mind, I don't think that she would willingly give back any of the powers that the Bush Administration has taken either.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #20
151. I don't want Hillary, either
but to call her the same as George Bush is laughable hyperbole. She isn't the best we can put forward, by a long shot, but she, my friend, is no George Bush!
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
21. We need fresh blood
in our White House..hillary's bringing up the baggage car.

No more clintons or bushits in the Oval Office.
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NoFederales Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. My sentiments exactly. It is time for others to step up and do their Duty.
Maybe the American Public desire a "King", or "Queen"--they seem to go all willy over the British Monarchy. American Royalty!--we would be one step away from Divine Appointments again, told how Benevolent Leader is keen for the subjects, and a thrice away from losing every political gain before and since the Revolution.

Ow, I have a headache now.

NoFederales
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #28
138. America needs a Healing..
Someone to step up and lead. Not a dlcer who thinks the military complex and corporatewhores are the path to salvation with a twist of hypocricy.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
45. Obama has Cheney blood. Same old same old indeed
Looks like Hillary's blood is a lot fresher
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #50
63. Hey, hey, hey... It's Christmas... No name calling today.. Save that for ...
tommorow! lol
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #45
70. I was waiting for the Hillarites to use this.
It is as sure a sign of the impending collapse of Hillarism as bringing up Hitler is to an online argument.

Oh wait, the Hillarites are bringing up Hitler, too! Apparently, Will Smith is a Nazi, now.
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #70
92. I can't believe that even the "Hillarites" would use that.
I normally never call HRC supporters anything like that, but this time, it's deserved. That is the most ridiculous, desperate, and just plain stupid comment I've seen from a Hill supporter yet, and there've been a LOT to choose from.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #70
137. All they see are straws
and they start grasping..

Indicative of hillary's emissaries.
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earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #45
94. OMG durrty....that was preposterous!
Make up your mind. Is Obama too inexperienced or is hillary a lot fresher? You can't have it both ways.....oh, I see...you emulate hillary!
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
22. Let me get this straight! "Progressives"* argue until they're blue in the face that Hillary's...
...time as first lady doesn't count as experience, but now you're hyping an article that shows just how much experience it gave her? This calls for another thread!
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
38. 'experience' is not Experience, can you not tell the difference?
Edited on Tue Dec-25-07 04:55 PM by JackORoses
using Bill's infidelities as a weapon to get her way with Policies and People does not count as Experience,
but it does smack of Manipulation and shady ethics.
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #38
54. I saw nothing but conjecture about that in the article
Does the author read Hillary's mind? Is she there in the bedroom? The author gave sources for a couple other things she wrote but I've never seen a source on the accusation that Hillary controls Bill with blackmail about his sex life.

Perhaps the Clintons love each other. Perhaps they both believe that they do better as a team. Perhaps Bill wanted Hillary to be an enforcer behind the scenes so he wouldn't come off looking like the bad guy. The author did state that the White House staff she interviewed said they were never sure if she was acting on Bill's orders or not. Perhaps her role was kept secret so she could give honest advice without all the baggage public attention would bring.

One thing is certain. Hillary's critics continue to insist that Hillary has no more experience than Laura Bush, while at the same time saying Hillary was the behind the scenes manipulator that controlled everything. Both can't be true at once. What is most likely true is that she played an important role but Bill had the last word.
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #22
93. Actually it shows how much experience it gave her in SOME things
like being secretive, manipulative, and misuse of some of the power she did have. I wouldn't say that's Presidential experience, but, if that's what you're looking for in a leader, well, yes, I guess it does show how much experience it gave her.
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Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #22
95. On the other hand, you DLC'ers claim that she was a "co-president" and therefore "experienced"
But if that's true, then isn't she also ineligible to run for President under the 22nd Ammendment?

Can't have it both ways. Either she served 8 years in the White House, is experienced and is ineligible, or her "experience" does not count and she can run.

So which is it? :evilgrin:

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #95
116. show me one example of a DLCer claiming that?
I don't think you can, rendering your reply null and void.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #22
115. Hillary is the one touting herself now as "agent of change", so which is it? Is she a throw back
90's.

And there's a big difference between being a leader and POTUS and a behind the scenes manipulator.

For reference, see Dick Cheney.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #22
152. LOL
That was my thought exactly. I thought it was an open secret that the two of them governed as a team, just as it will be this time, though I don't think Bill will be as good as Hillary was at being inobstrusive.
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Think82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
25. You know who was the FIRST to advocate intervention in BOsnia?!... BIDEN... thats a leader
Please, Hillary supporters, switch to Biden... for REAL experience, leadership and judgment.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
29. '"What the f––– are you doing up there?" she screamed, according to a West Wing adviser'....
Edited on Tue Dec-25-07 04:36 PM by ClarkUSA
Wow, that's the voice of experience! :eyes:

I'll pass on Clinton II, thanks. After the madrassa emails and the drug dealer smear, I won't ever support her or Clinton I again.
If I wanted to support Karl Rove tactics, I'd be a Bush Republican. Too bad I'm a proud progressive, the kind some DU Clintonians
think are "useless as tits on a bull."
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #29
41. Spot on, as usual Clark :-)
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #41
68. From one proud progressive to another...
:hug:
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
32. Please, no thanks
ABH
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fightindonkey Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
37. So You Want A Non-Evolution Believer Repug Again, Or A Person From One Of The Most Successful Admins
in history. Please, cry me a river. Hillary wins hands down. Shit needs to be cleaned up. I don't want another idiot learning on the job.
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LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. I doubt if she is about to clean up any shit, more like spread somemore IMO.. n/t
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. thank God, those aren't our only options... it's sad you limit yourself to that
And to clarify, she was not a member of the Administration, she was the President's wife.
Her assumed Power came from her control over Bill due to his infidelities.

"Shit needs to be cleaned up."

Then why would we elect Hillary?
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Her assumed Power came from her control over Bill
Edited on Tue Dec-25-07 05:02 PM by Jim4Wes
due to his infidelities.


You bought that hook line and sinker eh?
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #47
57. you don't have to buy the Truth, It is Free
Edited on Tue Dec-25-07 05:30 PM by JackORoses
this is Hill's problem

She has to sell herself as 'Likeable', as 'Experienced', as an 'Agent of Change' because none of it is the Truth.

The Truth is self-evident. It cannot be bought or sold.
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Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #37
97. No, Hillary's just the corporate shill who PRAYS with the non-evolution believing Repukes
Big difference...... NOT
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gmudem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #37
106. No I want a Democrat with principles and a spine
Hillary has neither. She doesn't have a genuine belief in her body. She is the Democratic equivalent of Romney, both with their fingers to the wind. We need a figher to clean up after Bush, and the establishment's princess Hillary is not that woman.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #106
117. And by clean up we dont mean sweep under the fucking rug!!!
Which is exactly what I expect from Clinton II. After all Clinton I did such an excellent job for Bush I, why shouldn't we expect more of the same?
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
49. She's never been a leader, just a behind the scenes player
I can't for the life of me begin to picture more than a minor portion of this country getting excited about her as President. She gives the impression of being mostly inspired by her own ambition, rather than any cause. And she is as dreary as the day is long. Maybe we can thank her father for that; cold and miserable as he was to her. Whatever the reasons for her make-up, this is someone who should never rise above the level of chief operating officer.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. not really
This took 0.3 seconds to snag from one page at her website. Anyone curious could find more.
--------------------------
When her husband was elected President in 1992, Hillary's work as a champion for women was recognized and admired around the world. She traveled the globe speaking out against the degradation and abuse of women and standing up for the powerful idea that women's rights are human rights.

In the White House, Hillary led efforts to make adoption easier, to expand early learning and child care, to increase funding for breast cancer research, and to help veterans suffering from Gulf War syndrome who had too often been ignored in the past. She helped launch a national campaign to prevent teen pregnancy and helped create the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997, which moved children from foster care to adoption more quickly. Thanks in part to her efforts, the number of children who have moved out of foster care into adoption has increased dramatically.

As everyone knows, Hillary's fight for universal health coverage did not succeed. But her commitment to health care for every American has never wavered. She was instrumental in designing and championing the State Children's Health Insurance Program, which has provided millions of children with health insurance. She battled the big drug companies to force them to test their drugs for children and to make sure all kids get the immunizations they need through the Vaccines for Children Program. Immunization rates dramatically improved after the program launched.

Hillary's 1995 book It Takes A Village, about the responsibility we all have to help children succeed, became an international best seller. Hillary has donated the proceeds -- more than a million dollars -- to children's causes across the country.

Hillary's autobiography, Living History, was also a best seller. It has been translated into 12 languages and sold over 1.3 million copies.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/about/senator/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Just about no one is inspired by her, Jim
Why do you think that is? The resume points do make for good, if superficial, reading, though.

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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. RFK and I disagree.
"Hillary Clinton has the strength and experience to bring the war in Iraq to an end and reverse the potentially devastating effects of global warming," Kennedy said. "I watched proudly as Hillary won over New Yorkers across the state in her race for the Senate seat my father once held. Since then, she’s been reelected in a landslide victory and proven that she is ready to lead this nation from her first day in office. Hillary will inspire the real change America needs."

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=4426

as do many others who have endorsed her.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/endorsements/
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. More cuts-and-pastes from websites
no substitute for the real lack of feeling on the ground. Her latest bid for power has an utterly joyless feel to it. She still believes in a place called in-it-to-win-its-ville. I love the irony of the sneering at the politics of hope, whereas her husband used to seal the deal with us by summoning up a place called Hope.

Of course, she just might pull it all off, but the country won't put up with her and the Needy Guy for more than one term. In addition to all their other issues, nobody likes to root for people who have already won.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Here try this
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. I'm watching...points for effort
and Happy Holidays to you.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. same to you BG.
:)

taking a break to do some Holiday stuff.
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ElizabethDC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #56
88. Just because you're not inspired by her doesn't mean that no one is
I'm one of many people I know who find her inspirational. But, regardless, inspiration is just one of many qualities I look for in a president. I think a good candidates should provide mroe than inspiration alone.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #56
104. I'm inspired by her.
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Bluestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
58. And if she had been the typical First Lady, serving cookies and punch
instead of getting involved, they would be bashing her as too weak! This is such a sexist article. I can't believe how blatant that sexism is and you want us to buy into it. Get ready, the right wing machine is just getting warmed up! Hillary will be bashed no matter what she does.

As a woman, I think it's admirable how she wields power. Think about it. If a man had done what she did you would be calling him strong and a leader. Nothing ever changes.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #58
64. there is a difference between wielding the power which you were elected to,
Edited on Tue Dec-25-07 05:45 PM by JackORoses
and abusing your position as the President's wife to manipulate policy and exert control.

Pointing out Hillary's shady activities is not sexist, they would be just as revolting if done by a man.
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Bluestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #64
87. I don't believe that White House advisers are elected to their posts, yet
they continue to wield as much power as they can. I don't see a difference between that and being the president's wife.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. "She had no official position or specified duties"
She was not a WH Advisor. No matter how much you would like that to be the case.

And when was the last time we chose a WH advisor for our President, anyway?
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Bluestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #89
103. She was given specific duties and responsibilities by President Clinton
to reform health care, and possibly other official business that we did not know about. That's because the right wing had such a fit about her being included in the decision making that she was supposedly sidelined. Bill Clinton obviously had faith in her judgment, or he would not have treated her as an adviser.

Your point about not "electing" WH advisers to be president seems irrelevant. She has been much closer to the seat of power and the decision-making in one of the best administrations of the 20th century AND been a very popular US Senator. I contrast that with Mr. Obama and his non-senatorial experience of being in a state house and for me, Hillary wins out. Also, she has been involved and been the subject of scrutiny in two very successful national presidential campaigns--no one else who is running has that experience.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #103
105. I'm sure you mean Senator Obama, right?
"and possibly other official business that we did not know about"

Yeah, let me know when you find out about that. It must be a state secret, right?

"I contrast that with Mr. Obama and his non-senatorial experience of being in a state house "

You say he's non-senatorial, yet he has been a US Senator for 3 years, and he was a Illinois State Senator for 8 years. How does that compute?

"she has been involved and been the subject of scrutiny in two very successful national presidential campaigns--no one else who is running has that experience. "

She has created enemies across the country that no other Dem Candidate has. Her husband was nearly impeached. That will weigh heavily on her electability.
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Bluestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #105
143. I did not mean to imply that Senator Obama was a "non-senator"
The phrase was meant to differentiate his experience prior to being a senator versus his senatorial experience. I apologize for my poor choice of words. I have nothing against Senator Obama and was undecided about my choice for a nominee for a long time.

Part of the reason I do not back him is the mantle of "second coming" that comes from some of his supporters on this board. I have about 12 of his supporters on ignore right now because their zeal just turns me off completely. No candidate can be as perfect as he is portrayed here.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #103
141. And let's face it, she did a bang up job with health care.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
61. Her anti-Clinton book flops, yet later on gets major play in the MSM?
Edited on Tue Dec-25-07 05:45 PM by MethuenProgressive
The MSM hates the Clintons. Always have. Always will.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
69. Yikes. Please, Obama, please win Iowa.
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
71. She'll be 1,000,000 times better than Obama....
I am still cringing that he wants to bomb Iran...
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. Making up stuff much? n/t
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. wasn't it Hillary who voted to declare the Iranian Revolutionary Guard a terrorist group?
That should kickstart a beautiful diplomatic relationship with Iran, don't you think?

You are really confused if you think that Hillary is Anti-War.
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hayu_lol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. This same tired group of people, our resident Hillary Haters, continue to spew...
the lines they learned about 16 years ago when Hillary was attacked viciously by every conceivable Right Wing source...and pounded daily by Rush and the rest of his ilk.

This resident HH group does believe that the sky is falling, refuses to acknowledge that Hillary does have a few smarts, is a capable FEMALE candidate in her own right, and has done years and years of extended service to the nation to the benefit of many.

None of them tout their own candidates as much as they attempt to knock Hillary out of the contest.

They tout the polls that show their candidates in the lead, they hate the polls that show any improvement in Hillary's standing. Could be the identical poll, but just a day later. Gonna get those sorts of changes when you have a primary happening within a few days.

I can understand a few posts to make your feelings known. To continue beating the drums that you, as a group have done, is as counterproductive to yourselves as it is to the rest of us.

Perhaps one of you will tell the rest of us just exactly the reasons for your excessive hate. Are any of you capable of even that decency?
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #75
78. I don't hate Hillary, that is a waste of time.
Edited on Tue Dec-25-07 07:31 PM by JackORoses
If she weren't trying to become our President, I would never even think of her.

But she is running for President, and because I love this Country and its People, I will do everything I can to stop her from being our nominee.
She is a Dirty Politician who has no place in this Country's highest office.

She would still be a dirty politician if she was a man or if she was black or if she was an Alien.
This title is based on her actions, not on her espoused intentions.

It's funny how Hillarites like to claim all of us who don't support her are Right Wingers. You are living in a bubble if you accept this as truth.
We are Real Democrats and there are alot of us. Discount us at your own peril.


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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #75
79. Maybe some of us have valid reasons to not want her to be president.
Edited on Tue Dec-25-07 07:38 PM by jenmito
It's not "excessive hate" for me. It's fear of having someone be president who SAID a president shouldn't say what they think, who said she wouldn't meet with our enemies unconditionally (agreeing with Bush on that point), who voted for the IWR after 1) not taking the time or making the effort to read the intel. report first 2) consulting her husband who obviously guided her to vote for it 3) connecting al Qaeda to Iraq, who is proud to take money from lobbyists, who is friends with Rupert Murdoch, who voted for the Kyl/Lieberman bill meaning she STILL trusts Bush, who gave 3 answers in 2 minutes regarding giving drivers' licenses to illegal immigrants, trying to have it all ways, and other things I'm probably forgetting. Not ONE of the reasons I gave are from 16 years ago nor from RW talking points. The fact that she's a female means nothing.
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #71
76. Funny.
Doesn't Hillary want to bomb Iran too?

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gmudem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #71
107. Didn't Hillary support Kyl-Lieberman?
I wonder if Bitwit could actually make that comment about Obama with a straight face.
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PADemD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #71
118. Obama resolution denies Bush authority to fight Iran
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
81. I want to know where she's hiding that "hidden hand"
ouch, what's that tugging sensatio--
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. Probably in the same place where Lucretia Borgia kept her bottle of poison
The Bushes and the Clintons are modern versions of the Borgias.
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
82. Clark's for Hillary.
That's good enough for me by itself. Still, let's see what the others can do and what Hillary does.

I love the "hidden hand" phrase, by the way. Who makes up these article titles?

CNN had one yesterday, "How Youssif got back his smile". It showed a picture of the Iraqi boy who got his face burned off. There was a "before" picture of a sweet looking child. Then there was an "after" picture of a severely disfigured child. Then there was a third "after he got his smile back" picture of a severely disfigured child whose lips could form a "smile." Very heartwarming end to what would otherwise have been a very heartbreaking story about a ruined little boy...

I think the "got back his smile" was probably a play on "How Stella Got Her Groove Back." It was very current and hip.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #82
84. Clark also said that he saw nothing wrong with the School of the Americas
and he denies risking World War III by confronting the Russians at an airport in Bosnia.

Anti-SOA veterans and British General Sir Michael Jackson have a different point of view from Clark's.
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #84
86. Hello, IG.
Merry merry!
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DemCam Donating Member (911 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
90. So we quote Newsweek now?
Do we not remember who Newsweek really is? How quickly we forget....and to oour own detriment, imho.
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annie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
99. Why doesn't Barack really go after her on stuff like this. I think he's been...
really soft on her. He should give her a 1/10 of what the pubs will give her during GE time. There's tons of relavent stuff he could hit her on. I can see why edwards couldn't/wouldn't, he's only got 1 term, but barack at least has 2 state terms. hmmm. maybe he couldn't go there either. why doesn't anyone on the dem side hit her on it?
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
101. Hillary is running on her past experience, which is completely made up
No Security clearance. No National Security Council meetings. No copy of the president’s daily intelligence briefing. But boy, could she get in people's faces...

:puke:

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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
102. Well, well, well, I see that Sally has been busy pushing her version
of the Clinton's marriage once again. I always find it quite amusing how somebody writes a whole book on someone else's marriage without having had any personal input from the two people that compose said marriage. I remember her doing the media rounds when she was peddling her book, her article for Newsweek is almost verbatim what she has already said a few months ago.

As for the reaction here, there are no surprises: the Clinton haters point fingers as if to say "see, see, this is why I won't vote for her". The Clinton supporters yawn in boredom, we've heard all before and learned to take it with a grain of salt. Either way, this article won't change anybody's mind.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
110. I'm worried. Hillary's vast experience is driving her opponents nuts.
Edited on Wed Dec-26-07 06:59 AM by Perry Logan
HILLARY'S EXPERIENCE ON THE WORLD STAGE:

Her historic speech at the UN Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing in 1995 not only galvanized women around the world, it helped spawn a movement that led to advances politically, legally, economically, and socially for women in many countries over the next decade. Among other initiatives, she spearheaded the Clinton Administration's efforts to combat the global crisis of human trafficking. She persuaded the First Ladies of the Americas to use their collective power to eradicate measles and improve girls' education throughout the western Hemisphere. And she is widely credited with helping women in Kuwait finally win the right to vote.

As First Lady and now as a two-term senator who represents the most ethnically diverse state in the nation and who sits on the Armed Services Committee, Hillary Clinton has become a fixture on international issues over the past 15 years. She has traveled to more than 80 countries, going from barrios to rural villages to meetings with heads of state. She has consulted with dozens of world leaders - Nelson Mandela, King Abdullah, Tony Blair among them -- on matters as diverse as America and NATO's roles in Kosovo, eradicating poverty in the Third World, and the plight of women living under the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Today, she is one of the most influential voices in the world on human rights, democracy, and the promotion of a "new internationalism" in foreign affairs that calls for a balanced use of military force, diplomacy, and social development to strengthen American interests and security globally.

While American First Ladies historically have made great (and often overlooked) contributions to our nation, Hillary Clinton's wide-ranging experience on international issues as First Lady is unprecedented. Indeed, she is the only First Lady to have delivered foreign policy addresses at major gatherings of the United Nations, the World Bank, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the World Economic Forum.

Hillary Clinton has been fighting for the rights of children for special needs for decades. In her first job out of law school working for the Children's Defense Fund, she conducted research that led to Congress passing the Education for All Handicapped Children Act of 1975, the landmark bill mandating that all children with disabilities be educated in the public school system. later, she helped improve the education of children with special needs by working to reauthorize the Individuals with Disabilities in Education Act. In 2005, she sponsored an amendment to increase funding for the act by $4 billion dollars. She also cosponsored the Personal Excellence for Children with Disabilities Act, a bill that promised to help schools recruit and retain new special education teachers, and better prepare general education teachers and staff to work with children with special needs.

Most recently, she has called for greatly expanded funding to the National Institute for Health to investigate treatments for children with disabilities. And she has put forth a comprehensive and detailed plan to help children and families affected by autism, with numerous elements that correspond very closely to what families in the autism community have been demanding for years.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #110
131. don't worry, Perrywinkle. We can handle her 'experience'.
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Kashka-Kat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
119. This is a fair question - are people "qualified" to be prez on the basis of being related to
an ex-prez? If so then that record should be as open to scrutiny as her record as senator.
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I was just saying... Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
121. This article is wrong about Bosnia
It was Colin Powell who was reluctant to do anything in that war without
overwhelming force. The air-war-only strategy prevailed and was successful
in the relatively small number of deaths to Nato and Serbian forces.

However any major mainstream media should be looked at with a jaundiced eye.

For those who say that Hilary has 'no experience', I believe Bill Clinton
when he says he asks her for her advice often, but I also believe that Hilary did not
always have the final say.

Hilary wants to be president and did not spend those eight years in the White House
baking cookies. When she says she is "ready to hit the ground running on day one" -
take her word for it.
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desi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
122. This sounds like it's straight out of the "Arkansas Project."
"When Bill tried to make the plan more flexible, he had to defer to her, in part because of their implicit marital bargain, in which Bill ceded her power as a trade-off for his history of infidelity."

It was then known as a "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" which has lately morphed into a Vast Extreme-Left smear using right wing talking points. The WH Travel Office? "'Don't leave any fingerprints'" No doubt that is a friendly reminder about the "Rose Law Firm Billing Records." Yep, radical right wing talking points/smears now disseminated by Democrats. Unfuckin'believable. Can the "murder" of Vince Foster be far behind?

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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #122
126. The whole premise of her book is that their marriage is one
of political expediency. Therefore, she had to write all this crap to justify the sole premise of her so called biography (more like another trashy book on the Clintons if you asked me). My opinion? No one, and I mean NO ONE, really knows what goes on in any marriage other than the two people involved in it. I find it highly presumptuous when people assume to know everything about someone else's marriage. Heck, half of the time I didn't know what was going on in my own marriage!!! LOL!!!
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danhan Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
123. I think
Hillary's first "hidden hand" has a firm grip on Bill's testicles and will crush them if he gets out of line.

The other hand is free for crushing others.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #123
127. Rush, is that you?
Did you bring the "testicle lockbox"???
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droidamus2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
128. Oh yeah?
Isn't it funny that when a woman plays the political games she is seen as sneaky, harsh, abrasive but when a man does the same things he is politically astute, a hard bargainer and a take charge leader. In politics you do what you need to do to get things done, I am not saying you should do illegal or unethical things, sometimes that means playing hardball. I would think a president should have this side to their personality. On the other hand they should know when a softer touch would work better. I don't see any reason to believe Hillary isn't capable of doing both. Hit pieces like this are just the medias way of making sure it's a horse race and at an even dirty level helping out Republicans. I say whether you like Hillary or not you should work to support your candidate and explain why their plan is the right one. By tearing down your own candidates you are just helping the Republicans in the general election. I could vote for Hillary, Obama or Edwards without feeling too bad about it and I definitely would not vote for any of the Republicans.
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johncoby2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
129. I just wonder if we need to be a bunch of *&^holes about it.
You anti hillary folks are just as bad as the republicans.

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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #129
133. got anything to add about the points presented in the article?
or are you the designated Hillarite 'Asshole' labeler?
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
135. This actually makes me feel better about how things would go
Were she actually elected.

Let's face it, we don't elect a president because they are moral, honorable or tolerant. I made the same point when people were hand-wringing about Bill's perjury- We want a president that can lie, cheat, steal and kill. The people who are doing otherwise are naive.

Where the rubber hits the road is this: Will she use that brawler's instinct to fight for Dem principles, or Corps?

50/50, is my guess.
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benld74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
136. Newsweek should have come out with a similar question over 7 years ago,,
FOR THAT SORRY SACK O SH*T WE HAVE THERE NOW. tALK ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO WIPE HIS OWN *SS! gIVE ME A BREK NEWSWEEK. YOU NEED TO CHANGE THE NAME OF YOUR RAG TO NEWSWEAK!
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DeanDem10 Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
139. I am an Edwards supporter, but ths is really ridiculous...
I support John Edwards. But the rumor, innuendo and other nonsense involved in the background of this story is disturbing. It's character assassination, pure and simple. And it's a whole lot more disturbing than the purported accusations of Hillary Clinton. Personally, I cannot stand her DLC brand of Republican Democrat. I cannot stand her pretense at a resume by osmosis. It is simply not true that she had the independent experience she needs. And her Senatorial experience, only a couple short years longer than Obama's, well, she hasn't learned anything during those years, so so what? What's it worth?

BUT, this article tries to portray Hillary as almost Rovian (or Cheney-like), without actually using the term, and this abhorrent. She may be bad on some issues, but the Rovian implication is preposterous. It (the media matchet job) is also disgusting.

Stephanopolous is snake-like in his deprecation of Hillary. He works inside and in confidence, and then works for the enemy, the so-called MSM. We need to be clear on who we are against and who we are not. And it is George Stephanopolous and the rest of the the media impostors (such as the authors of this piece) who would do anything for a story like this, but do nothing to report the real stories of the day (while instead talking the horse race and celebrity/candidate gossip). And they'd do anything to stick it to Democrats, whomever is leading at the moment. Stick to the facts George and Newsweek. Stick to what distinguishes the candidates. There are real issues here.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
142. This is the kinda experience America deserves
:kick:
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
147. I'm not a Hillary fan
But this is clearly a newsweek hit piece. I don't care for it.
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College Liberal Donating Member (561 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
153. Thanks for posting this
Kick
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
156. It's Newsweek I don't need....
or any of its no-talent hacks they hire to do hit jobs on the Clintons. Izzie is the worst one. He tried so hard to bring Bill Clinton down---unsuccessfully---that I was certain he committed suicide because when he failed I didn't see or hear anything about him for months.

When he does show his ugly face he does it on "Hardball." Big surprise. Birds of a feather and all that.
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