Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

NYT/Rich: Obama gets the better of Clinton's FP advisers

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 11:40 PM
Original message
NYT/Rich: Obama gets the better of Clinton's FP advisers
A Resume Can't Buy You Love

By FRANK RICH
Published: December 23, 2007

WE can only imagine what is going on inside John McCain’s head when he contemplates Mike Huckabee. It can’t be pretty. No presidential candidate in either party has more experience in matters of war than the Arizona senator, and yet in a wartime election he is being outpaced by a guy who has zero experience and is proud of it.

...But if Mr. McCain has so far resisted slapping down the upstart in his party, Bill Clinton has shown no such self-restraint about Barack Obama. Early this month the former president criticized the press for not sufficiently covering the candidates’ “record in public life” and thereby making “people think experience is irrelevant.” His pique boiled over on Charlie Rose’s show on Dec. 14, when he made his now-famous claim that the 2008 election will be a referendum on whether “no experience matters.” He insinuated that Mr. Obama was tantamount to “a gifted television commentator” and likened a potential Obama presidency to a roll of the dice.

Attention Bill Clinton: If that’s what this election is about, it’s already over. No matter how much Hillary Clinton, Mr. McCain or Rudy Giuliani brag about being tested and vetted, it’s not experience that will be decisive in determining the next president.

...Mr. Obama, like Mrs. Clinton, has indeed turned to former Clintonites for foreign-policy advice. But the Clinton players were not homogeneous, and who ended up with which ’08 candidate is instructive. The principal foreign-policy Clinton alumni in Mr. Obama’s campaign include Susan Rice, a former assistant secretary of state, and Tony Lake, the former national security adviser and a prewar skeptic who said publicly in February 2003 that the Bush administration had not made the case that Saddam was an “imminent threat.” Ms. Rice, in an eloquent speech in November 2002, said that the Bush administration was “trying to change the subject to Iraq” from the war against Al Qaeda and warned that if it tried to fight both wars at once, “one, if not both, will suffer.” Her text now reads as a bookend to Mr. Obama’s senatorial campaign speech challenging the wisdom of the war only weeks earlier that same fall.

Mrs. Clinton’s current team was less prescient. Though it includes one of the earlier military critics of Bush policy, Gen. Wesley Clark, he is balanced by Gen. Jack Keane, an author of the Bush “surge.” The Clinton campaign’s foreign policy and national security director is a former Madeleine Albright aide, Lee Feinstein, who in November 2002 was gullible enough to say on CNBC that “we should take the president at his word, which is that he sees war as a last resort” — an argument anticipating the one Mrs. Clinton still uses to defend her vote on the Iraq war authorization.

In late April 2003, a week before “Mission Accomplished,” Mr. Feinstein could be found on CNN saying that he was “fairly confident” that W.M.D. would turn up in Iraq. Asked if the war would be a failure if no weapons were found, he said, “I don’t think that that’s a situation we’ll confront.” Forced to confront exactly that situation over the next year, he dug in deeper, co-writing an essay for Foreign Affairs (available on its Web site) arguing that “the biggest problem with the Bush pre-emption strategy may be that it does not go far enough.”

What Mrs. Clinton clearly has learned from her White House experience, as she reminds us, is to strike back at her critics. Unfortunately, she has assimilated those critics’ methods as well. Attacks on Mr. Obama’s record and views are fair game. But the steady personal attacks — the invocations of “cocaine” and “Hussein” and “madrassa” by surrogates — smell like the dirty tricks of the old Clinton haters. The Clinton-camp denials that these tactics have been “authorized” sound like Karl Rove’s denials of similar smear campaigns against John McCain in 2000.

If Mrs. Clinton is to win, she won’t do so by running on that kind of experience but by rising above it. Bill Clinton wouldn’t have shifted gears to refer to his wife constantly as a “change agent,” however implausibly, if his acute political sensors didn’t tell him that Americans are not just willing but eager to roll the dice.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/opinion/23rich.html?ref=opinion
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. the washington post is dissing hillary today
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/21/AR2007122102588.html
Hillary Clinton Embraces Her Husband's Legacy - washingtonpost.com

a lump of coal for the clintons this christmas from the times and post
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Dowd isn't kind either...surprise, surprise
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Excellent article! K&R!
:kick: Take THAT, Clintons!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
4. I still say HRC prevails because she has BIll and folks he ain't
no chopped liver. Barry might have some of bill's key folks but hrc has the main ones. Kinda like baseball...bill is the manager albright and others are assistant coaches and barry's folks are farm club material.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. One of the reasons Hillary will lose
Edited on Sun Dec-23-07 12:13 AM by calteacherguy
is her campaign has apparently decided to rely on him, starting December 26th.

Big mistake on multiple levels.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Relying on Bill makes Hillary look weak.
People don't vote for weak.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Shhhhh.....
;-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. For such a great "political machine," the Clintons seem to be making all the wrong moves.
I can't wait 'til they trot out this new strategy! :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. They've been cautious with using Bill up until now.
Now they seem to be prepared to throw caution to the wind.

What does that tell you?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. It tells me they have nothing to lose...
Edited on Sun Dec-23-07 12:44 PM by jenmito
yet they're still managing to lose more and more...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Did you read the article?
The part about the foreign policy advisors was quite enlightening for me. Not exactly "farm club".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nimrod2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
11. Hillary is going down BIG TIME! She may not break the 20% in IA!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
12. K&R for truth!
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
13. Obama's trying to buy a resume?
Hiring people with experience to make up for his lack of experience.
Money can buy you love.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. No. Hillary's trying to win an election by riding her husband's coattails...
and the best people in her husband's admin. choose to NOT help her. :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
14. Is Frank Rich reliable? Made up Al Gore "Love Story" lie & attacked Gore for anti-Iraq War speech.
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh060906.shtml

<edit>

The mailer asked an excellent question: Why has a “liberal” like Rich been so tough on Gore through the years? Why did he invent Love Story in 1997? Throughout the course of Campaign 2000, why did he keep pretending that Bush and Gore were a perfectly-matched pair of bumblers? When Gore spoke out on Iraq in 2002, why did Rich attack him again (inventing his facts as he went)? And in his new column, just two weeks ago, why did he nit-pick those ludicrous complaints about Gore? For example, why did he pretend—in that pathetic example—that Gore “waffled” on creationism in 1999? For the most part, readers have no way to evaluate such claims. Why does Rich just keep making them up?

Below, we’ll post our reply to the mailer. But make no mistake: In part, Rich does this because he can—because he knows that the Franke-Rutas are there to enable his conduct. Cartoonists know what happened with Gore. Film critics know what happened too. Everyone knows it—except Franke-Ruta! In her column, Franke-Ruta neatly avoids the most basic facts of our recent shared history. To this day, she still pretends that she doesn’t know who dropped those “hostile frames” on Gore. This is how young writers build fine careers. But it’s also how Democrats lose elections, and in this case, it also explains how the US marched off to Iraq. At some point, you’d think the Franke-Rutas would be shamed into telling the truth. At some point, you’d think these young scribes would be shamed into saying what happened.


more...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
15. Rich's op-ed is DAMNING to Hillary's choice of team members!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 03rd 2024, 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC