Joe Wilson - The Real Hillary I Know — and the Unreal Obama

[NewHampster]

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/12/21/the-real-hillary-i-know-and-the-unreal-obama/

Joe Wilson of Valerie Plame fame writes a well thought out comparison of two candidates.

Yesterday the London Times reported central questions about Senator Obama’s shocking dearth of international experience: “Fresh doubts over Barack Obama’s foreign policy credentials were expressed on both sides of the Atlantic last night, after it emerged that he had made only one brief official visit to London - and none elsewhere in Western Europe or Latin America.” It also reported: “Mr. Obama had failed to convene a single policy meeting of the Senate European subcommittee, of which he is chairman.”
<snip>
A number of us, like then Illinois state senator Obama, opposed the second Gulf War. My own opposition from the beginning has been well documented. I fought the fight in the arena itself, Washington DC, against a ruthless administration and its supporters while the senator’s opposition came from a far distance and carried no risk, given that he represented in Springfield, Illinois the district encompassing the University of Chicago. As an obscure but safe provincial political figure, he never was granted access to the distorted intelligence that was used to drive the Congress and the media. When I looked to the left or to the right for support, I never saw the state senator. In fact, I never heard of Barack Obama until he announced his intention to run for the Senate in the 2006 election.
<snip>

We know that she has won and lost but always fought for her beliefs, which are widely shared within the Democratic Party. The battles she had been in have been fierce–and the battles in the future will be no less intense–and she has proven her steadfastness and is still standing. She does not have a cowardly record of voting “present” when confronted with difficult issues. She does not claim “intuition” as the basis of the most dangerous and serious decision-making. What she has is deep and vital experience, more important than ever in restoring our country’s place in the world.

From No Quarter http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/12/21/the-real-hillary-i-know-and-the-unreal-obama/

[Evergreen Emerald]

1. awesome. I love Joe Wilson!

[stellanoir]

2. I just responded to this article over at the Huff Post

I said. . .


This comment is pending approval and won't be displayed until it is approved.
Mr. Wilson,

Though I have tremendous respect for your perspectives and your career, comparing Obama's intuitive function to the most incurious george dubious' gut instincts, his perverse proclivity for allegedly having God telling him to wage preemptive and unnecessary wars, and his acute shadow projection is simply not fair.

Perhaps it would be appropriate to have a leader who uses BOTH sides of their cranium, instead of logic, strategy, and linear thought alone.

Obama has something attributes that * could never have. Those would be common sense and a conscience.

As a 13th generational American on my maternal side, I'd love to see anything but a caucasian male as a president and feel that's long overdue.

However, if we're gonna have a female president, I'd rather it not be a corporatist masquerading as a hawkish male.

Nor do I want two families controlling the executive branch of government for over two decades. America is not about dynasties or it wasn't supposed to be.

Time for a change and a new paradigm for sure.

http://www.sedonadigitalarts.com/html/video_previews.html

[NewHampster]

5. Joe Wilson knows foriegn policy

I don't claim to know squat so I trust in the judgment of proven people like Wilson.

[stellanoir]

18. I'm well aware that he knows foreign policy

and I've a tremendous amount of respect for him and he and his wife's life paths.

I've met him cursorily on a number of occasions and heard him speak several times at events.

However, I don't agree with the comparison that Obama's instincts would even remotely resemble *'s by any stretch of the imagination.

[NewHampster]

20. fair enough

[William769]

3. K&R!

He has been well liked on DU, but I guess that is about to change. :(

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. Ha

The Republicans also turned on him...He was the last American diplomat to leave Iraq prior to Gulf War One... He didn't leave until all the hostages were free... He got a special commendation from Bush Pere for his bravery but that mattered naught when he debunked "the Saddam was builiding a nuke" story...

[desi]

73. Nah Billy...

Joe is a man of integrity and no amount of bashing from the usual suspects is going to change that...

[MethuenProgressive]

4. Joe Wilson for Director of the CIA!!

:kick:

[NewHampster]

6. lol

:bounce:

[calteacherguy]

7. LOL. What tripe. nt

[MethuenProgressive]

8. More jealousy from ObamaNation.

[calteacherguy]

29. This article would make a fine addition to desperatehillaryattacks.com

It's just the thing.

[MNDemNY]

32. It's an attack? Buck up

[calteacherguy]

33. It's just so blatently biased and twisted it's almost hard to believe

anyone would take it seriously. The author can't even get his dates right.

[MNDemNY]

36. Biased and twisted?

It's an opinion piece, written by an individual, of coarse it's biased. But an attack? You BHO supporters sure are quick to play the victim card, jeezus, it's a campaign! Toughen up or go the hell home.

[durrrty libby]

12. Your Christmas spirit didn't even last 24 hours. Now THAT is pure pig tripe

[TheWatcher]

25. We could only hope for a 24 hour break of having to read yours.

Now THAT would be a True Christmas Present indeed.

[durrrty libby]

43. Even simpletons should be able to figure out the ignore feature

[Clintonista2]

48. But these are like.. genetically modified simpletons

Twice the simple!

[indimuse]

26. WOW!

What a DISTINCT CONTRAST...How did Joe put it....? "As an OBSURE but SAFE ( of course he's safe the guy can't even be decisive on a VOTE!) provincial political figure". LOL!!!


OBAMA HOME ALREADY!!!

It takes a person OF LEADERSHIP who has served and put himself out there...a lifetime of work and battles..to recognise the LEADERSHIP QUALITYS OF A TRUE AND DEDICATED LEADER...PERIOD!

[calteacherguy]

28. What is your point? nt

[maximusveritas]

9. Well thought out? He doesn't even remember that Obama ran for Senate in 2004, not 2006

Maybe that's why he doesn't even know Obama was getting ready to run for Senate when he made his anti-war speech. So it did carry risk.

And I love this line: "he never was granted access to the distorted intelligence". Hillary had access to the full intelligence and didn't bother looking at it. Senator Graham did and that's why he opposed the war.

[ronnykmarshall]

15. Well he's probably senile.

Like McGovern and Mondale?

[maximusveritas]

17. No, just temporarily blinded by his support of Hillary

He'll come back to his senses after Obama wins the nomination.

[ronnykmarshall]

22. What a load.

[DURHAM D]

45. John Edwards is the person who had access to the full intelligence -

and didn't look at it. He was on the Intelligence Committee - Hillary was not.


Try again.

[maximusveritas]

50. Wrong - Hillary also had access

All the Senators had access, regardless of which committee they were on. Being on that committee only meant your aides had clearance to read it for you and report the results back to you. But she had access to read it on her own.

According to Senate aides, because Clinton was not yet on the Armed Services Committee, she did not have anyone working for her with the security clearances needed to read the entire N.I.E. and the other highly classified reports that pertained to Iraq. She could have done the reading herself. Senators were able to access the N.I.E. at two secure locations in the Capitol complex.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A0DE3DC1430F930A35755C0A9619C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print

[Evergreen Emerald]

11. I am amazed at how quickly our national heroes are attacked on DU

if they have independent thought. Our country is in trouble.

[ronnykmarshall]

16. Mc Govern, Mondale ....

the list goes on.

[durrrty libby]

13. Thank You Joe Wilson. Well Done

:woohoo: :applause: :woohoo:

[Alamom]

14. k&r

[SaveElmer]

19. Devastating...

Good job ambassador!!!

[calteacherguy]

31. Devasting? You are joking right?

This is such a Hillary con-job article it's doesn't even pretend to be objective.

This will make a fine additioin to desperatehillaryattacks.com.

It's a keeper! :rofl:

[MNDemNY]

34. Why, it doesn't mention COCAINE even once?

[avrdream]

54. Cocaine.

There you go teacher - something real for you to get mad about. Leave Joe Wilson's opinion alone. I let Oprah have her opinion, you let Joe have his.

Never mind, why do I bother?

[Vickers]

21. I really admire Joe Wilson, but there are a couple of issues I have

with this article:

- "I fought the fight in the arena itself, Washington DC, against a ruthless administration and its supporters"

(emphasis is mine)

Ironic considering Sen. Clinton's vote.

- "As an obscure but safe provincial political figure"

Not saying it isn't true, but hardly the kind of talk to get Illinoisans (and Midwesterners in general) pumped up for HRC.

Certainly some of his other points are very thought-provoking.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

23. Why couldn't Wilson persuade Sen. Clinton to vote against the war then?

Since he knew that she'd been given 'distorted' intelligence?

[NewHampster]

24. win some lose some. NO Politician is perfect.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

38. This is rather more than imperfection

I fail to see why he is giving Sen. Clinton a pass on this. There is simply no excuse for her IWR vote and her enthusiastic support for neo-con policies since then. Wilson is dismissive of Obama for not being part of the Washington inner circle, despite his spot-on assessment of the situation, yet full of praise for someone who WAS part of it and SHOULD have known better. If Sen. Clinton wants to use her experience as First Lady in her campaign, then it's only fair to question why she failed to remember that the people promoting the war were same PNAC creeps who tried to get her husband to attack Iraq back in the late '90s. Wilson should be aware of this too. I can only conclude that he assumes she's going to be the inevitable nominee and he wants a good position.

[Cha]

75. I fail to see why

hillary gets a pass from all those who have endorsed her? It's Twilight Zone but then what hasn't been in our government.. for a long time?

I hope all of those who sniff "inevitabilty" with hillary are left wondering.."What Happened?"

[bunnies]

42. Win some lose some? Is that how you feel about the population of an entire country?

I dont believe that Hampster.

[zulchzulu]

39. She would have none of that... political postering at the expense of killing innocent people...

...was more important to her.

After all, Bill was for the war and supported Bush. Oh wait... hold on...um... it depends what the meaning of "war" is...

:crazy:

[LSK]

46. well, Valery Plame believed Saddam had WMD at the time

Maybe you should read her book.

:eyes:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

85. At the time of what? Wilson went to Niger in Feb. 2002. IWR was Oct. 2002.

He had plenty of time to brief her about that. The supposed Niger yellowcake was a big factor in the decision to go to war. Maybe you should go back and look at the timeline of events.

Oh and :eyes: right backatcha.

[CyberPieHole]

27. Thanks for posting that, NewHampster....

I love Joe Wilson and I am pleased to know where he stands. Obviously, it is not with Obama and his sympathizers. Obama has too much to learn and the Presidency should not be on-the-job-training.

:kick: and recommend

[calteacherguy]

30. This ought to be posted on deperatehillaryattacks.com

she has "deep and vital expereince?"

In what???

[MNDemNY]

37. Do you have another line?

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:me an f'n river

[durrrty libby]

41. NO, This is his broken record of the day

He figures if he says it enough times, he will believe his own "tripe"

[MNDemNY]

69. No, I mean can you cut me another?

[zulchzulu]

35. Thanks Joe for pointing out how you thought the war Hillary voted for was STUPID

I'll give you that.

Otherwise, what was Obama supposed to do? Walk up to you and say he was against the war like MILLIONS of us were? The line was pretty goddamn long.

Obama saw through the bullshit, just like you.

Your Goldwater Girl didn't....or she'd rather send thousands to their deaths and spend trillions to look cheap-steak tough...and look "presidential".

Girls can send the Kids to Endless War too!

Sheesh....Joe. I hope you can look at yourself in the mirror.

[BeyondGeography]

40. More of a sneer than an endorsement

What is it about Team Restoration that turns otherwise good people into run-of-the-mill hacks?

[Jane Austin]

44. Is Joe Wilson still a Republican? n/t

[LSK]

47. Valery wrote in her book that she believed Saddam still had WMD

[ClarkUSA]

49. What is a Clinton surrogate supposed to say? That Hillary's IWR and Kyl-Lieberman votes were BS?

I'm waiting for him to wonder if Obama was a drug dealer... :eyes:

[Cameron27]

52. He wasn't forced to endorse Clinton,

he could have chosen Obama...but he didn't. He also wasn't forced to make that statement...but he did.

[ClarkUSA]

55. So what? Like I said, what do we expect Clinton surrogates to do?

I'm only surprised Joe didn't include the words cocaine, madrassa, and Muslim in his statement. Guess it would look too obvious after Bill Shaheen's
"wondering" and Bob Kerrey's "compliment". :eyes:

[Cameron27]

56. So what?

I think Wilson's endorsement is valuable, but apparently you don't. I'm not surprised what you think about any of Clinton's supporters, luckily it's only your opinion.

[ClarkUSA]

58. Yeah, so what? All of Clinton's surrogates have attacked Obama lately. This is no different.

Of course, you think well of Wilson. You also defended Bill Shaheen nd Bob Kerrey, right? And it's not "only" my opinion. Many people
have got Hillaryworld surrogates' number down.

[Cameron27]

60. You've attacked anyone who's endorsed Clinton,

from Wes Clark to now Joe Wilson. I won't go any further trying to debate with you.

Good luck with Obama.

[ClarkUSA]

66. Yeah, Bob Kerrey did such a great job, didn't he?

I only point out the obvious. Only Clinton Kool-Aide drinkers and their apologists consider the truth to be equal to attacks. How Orwellian
of you. Next you'll say Bill Shaheen shouldn't have resigned.

:eyes:

[MNDemNY]

61. whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[ClarkUSA]

68. Who do you support?

Let me guess.... the Queen of Parsing?

[MNDemNY]

72. I don't know the Queen of which you speak.

My primary vote will go to Dennis Kucinich, why do you ask?

[Capn Sunshine]

51. Joe Wilson is a registered Republican

What a surprise. He endorses Hillary. Can Lieberman be far behind?
McCain for VP?

[Cameron27]

53. Let's not dump on the Wilsons ok.

The two of them blasted open the bush lies about the Niger yellowcake and Iraq's WMDs. They both were smeared and trashed by the bush/cheney thugs for it, our side shouldn't be trying to do the same in the name of politics.

[robbedvoter]

62. Agree. Man's a hero I don't care who's endorsing. I just don't have to follow his

advice on this one. But my respect for this couple remains.

[Capn Sunshine]

65. It's not a dump, it's statement of fact

He's not some liberal god, although he's one of the many unfortunate victims of the BFEE.

As a republican ( Not a Neocon) , it follows he would like Hillary .

I just suggest you consider the source.

[Cameron27]

67. So what does his being a republican have to do

with this statement? He was against the war before many liberal Democrats were, and he fought a public battle against it when others didn't. I respect what he has to say about this issue.

[ClarkUSA]

57. Must be Bill's touting Bush I as a goodwill ambassador... Wilson worked for Poppy and admires him.

McCain for VP sounds about right... short of that, watch for her to pick another DLC corporate whore for VP (Evan Bayh, I'm guessing).

[robbedvoter]

64. This is trash. Shameful trash.

[ClarkUSA]

71. What's shameful trash is what Clinton surrogates have been shovelling lately...

I have no illusions as to which Mark Penn script Joe Wilson is reading from.

So much for his anti-Iraq war stance... his supporting neocon Hillary is a sell-out, as far as I'm concerned.

[robbedvoter]

82. No. I don't care about either candidate. leave the Wilsons alone! There are better replies to this

[flpoljunkie]

59. Too bad Hillary didn't even take the time to read the intelligence available to her at the time

[robbedvoter]

63. Now that's a well thought response! Brava!

[mtnsnake]

70. Now THAT is powerful!

and meaningful, too, considering the source!

Glad to recommend this one. :thumbsup:

[desi]

74. K&R

for Joe AND Valerie Wilson...and of course our girl Hillary...

:kick:

[johnnydrama]

76. i'm pretty sure

Joe Wilson voted for John Kerry.

I'm pretty sure John Dean is/was a Republican
I'm pretty sure Bruce Fein is/was a Republican

That doesn't stop us from praising them for their comments about Bush's anti constitution agenda.

Now all of a sudden, Joe Wilson is just another Republican.

I don't think so.

[desi]

77. I sincerely doubt that Wilson would have voted for Bush...

even if he was a Republican. As a matter of fact I believe he was a close Kerry adviser. And yes, Bruce Fein is one of the good guys, a rare Republican who cares more for the rule of law than his party and Bushco.

[BenDavid]

78. obama smooth talker but in reality, says NOTHING!

[CoffeeCat]

79. I really like Joe Wilson...

...and I respect him.

However, I don't agree with him AT ALL on his assessment of Hillary or his
mis-characterization of Ob ama.

That's ok. You can really appreciate someone, politically--and respect them.

That doesn't mean you have to agree with every single thing they say.

I don't agree with Joe Wilson on Hillary. If he likes lima beans, I don't
agree with that either.

Next.

[NewHampster]

80. me loves Lima beans

[mrreowwr_kittty]

86. It's a common logical fallacy known as Appeal to Authority

It's why companies use celebrities to endorse their products. It's also why I pay little attention to political endorsements, no matter how prominent the endorser is. I've seen way too many of them being done as political favors to give them much credibility.

[mod mom]

81. Steve Clemons of The Washington Note-Differences Between are 10-15%

In the end, the travel and foreign policy records of Clinton and Obama may prove over-scrutinized. As Clemons notes, the differences between the Democrats pale in comparison to those that exist between Democrats and Republicans.

"Hillary is on Armed Service Committee and has traveled all over the world," Clemons told the Huffington Post. "Barack has been an attentive member of the Foreign Relations Committee. There are differences between them but they are 10 to 15 percent difference. Whereas, the differences between the Obama or Hillary and Rudy or Huckabee are a 40 to 60 percent difference, just a staggering jump."

-snip
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/21/joe-wilson-rips-obama-ig_n_77921.html

[otohara]

83. So What If He'd Never Heard of Obama?

before his senate run? What does that have to do with anything?

Joe wants a job in the Hillary administration.

[NewHampster]

84. I wouldn't sneeze at a job either

What's wrong with that?

:popcorn:

[otohara]

87. Nuthing, But

now he can't get a job in the Obama administration.

[Beacool]

88. Great article!!!

A number of us, like then Illinois state senator Obama, opposed the second Gulf War. My own opposition from the beginning has been well documented. I fought the fight in the arena itself, Washington DC, against a ruthless administration and its supporters while the senator’s opposition came from a far distance and carried no risk, given that he represented in Springfield, Illinois the district encompassing the University of Chicago. As an obscure but safe provincial political figure, he never was granted access to the distorted intelligence that was used to drive the Congress and the media. When I looked to the left or to the right for support, I never saw the state senator. In fact, I never heard of Barack Obama until he announced his intention to run for the Senate in the 2006 election.

After he came to Washington, Obama’s views were thoroughly conventional and even timid. In 2004, he said about the 2002 congressional Authorization for the Use of Military Force: “I’m not privy to Senate intelligence reports. What would I have done? I don’t know.” On Iraq-related votes in the Senate, Obama’s record identically matches Senator Clinton’s–with the exception that Senator Clinton voted against the confirmation of General George Casey as Army chief of staff. Obama’s vote was typically passive.

I particularly liked this line: "As an obscure but safe provincial political figure, he never was granted access to the distorted intelligence that was used to drive the Congress and the media. When I looked to the left or to the right for support, I never saw the state senator. In fact, I never heard of Barack Obama until he announced his intention to run for the Senate in the 2006 election.

Too true, too true!!!!!

[NewHampster]

90. True but I doubt bamadroids will read the article

[Skidmore]

89. It didn't take someone with access to intelligence at the time to understand that *

was trying to sell a war and was going to go to war. How many times have we had this discussion on these boards. Lots of us out here watched * and his bunch inflate the information presented to the world as evidence of doom. We heard the inspectors talk about not finding anything and the rhetoric did not match the evidence. The evidence was flimsy at best. This is an insult to the intelligence of all people who were not afraid to call the emporer naked at the time. I don't consider those IWR votes to be acts of courage. At the time they were orchestrated by a legislative body intent on sweeping what was considered to be a brief campaign ala Gulf War II under the carpet before the next election. I call bullshit. There were so few in Congress who had the courage to stand up when it counted, and Hillary was not one of them.