Hillary: Logic Behind Vote For Obama Or Edwards Is Same As Logic Behind Vote For Bush

[jefferson_dem]

Hillary: Logic Behind Vote For Obama Or Edwards Is Same As Logic Behind Vote For Bush
By Greg Sargent - December 20, 2007, 4:37PM

At a campaign appearance in Iowa today, Hillary ramped up her argument that she's the only candidate in the race who is "up to speed" on "military matters," offering the following construction:

"It is tempting any time things seem quieter for a minute on the international front to think that we don't need a president who is up to speed on foreign affairs and military matters," Clinton said.

"Well, that's the kind of logic that got us George Bush in the first place," she said to laughter from her friendly audience at a high school auditorium. "Experience in foreign affairs is critical for ending the war in Iraq, averting war in Iran, negotiating a Middle East peace and dealing with North Korea."

In response, Obama aides were quick to point to past remarks by Hillary adviser Howard Wolfson, in which he appeared to aggressively criticize the idea of comparing any Dem candidate to Bush. On CNN back in July, Wolfson said the following in a discussion about Obama's comparison of Hillary foreign policy to "Bush Cheney lite":

And, with all due respect, if you want to talk about tactical political maneuvering, it's about one Democrat comparing another Democrat to George Bush. That's the worst kind of tactical political maneuvering.

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/12/hillary_logic_behind_vote_for_obama_or_edwards_is_same_as_logic_behind_vote_for_bush.php

****

And Obama spokesman Bill Burton plays what the campaign still thinks is their trump card: Iraq.

While Senator Clinton takes a break from her ‘likeability tour’ to go back on the attack, Senator Obama, the only major candidate who opposed both the Iraq war and the rush to war in Iran, will continue to demonstrate why he has the judgment to turn the page on the Bush-Cheney foreign policy.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1207/Back_to_basics_Experience.html

[Tyrone Slothrop]

1. So she's stumping for Biden now??? n/t

[bunnies]

2. So Obama & Edwards supporters = Bush supporters?

Shes crossed the line.

[Cha]

62. hillary crossed the line

when she voted YEA on the IWR and she still doesn't give a shit. Since then it's been bushite warmongering all the way.

[MethuenProgressive]

3. The Obama shill on TPM writes an attack blog against Clinton? Shocking!

Who could've seen that coming?

[jefferson_dem]

7. Greg Sargent as an Obama shill?

Get a clue and then come back to visit.

[billybob537]

4. So she,s going to admit giving Bush

authorization for Iraq invasion was a Mistake! When she admits that, I'll start listening to anything else she says

[annie1]

5. oh snap. lol.

[TeamJordan23]

6. "Up to speed on military matters''...so why did she not read the Intel Report before IWR vote? nm

[MadBadger]

8. What the hell makes her more up to speed on military matters than ANYBODY else?

Shes served on the Armed Services Committee for four years. Thats the extent of her experience on this, and thats it, no more really than anybody else. I guess shes really making an argument for Biden or Richardson who are much more up to speed than she is. While she was telling the cook what the meal schedule would be in the WH, Joe Biden was serving on the Foreign Relations committee with over 20 years of experience, and Bill Richardson was busy being ambassador to the UN.

[rucky]

9. Does she buy her own bullshit?

or just have a low opinion of our intelligence?

[bunnies]

10. Im convinced she thinks we're stupid.

Between this and the oil thing from earlier today... its getting absurd.

on edit: the oil thing http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3867012

[Andy823]

11. Yeah, but I bet

She isn't done yet. She will just keep on making such comments, and hope that there are enough "simple" people who will buy her BS, and vote for her. Sadly I think she is going down the road that leads to her losing big time. She will self destruct if she doesn't wise up and stop making such stupid mistakes, and promising things that she can never keep.

[bunnies]

21. re: the oil thing especially...

why set yourself up to be ripped apart your first day on the job? Its not logical. And with this it seems to me like she takes a big risk of alienating potential supporters by insulting undecided voters like this. Im sure there are lots of people who like her AND Obama, or her AND Edwards. Why compare them to Bush supporters? How does that make sense? :shrug:

[Andy823]

37. It doesn't make sense

But nothing much she has done as of late seems to make any sense. I just don't get it.

[MadBadger]

12. Too bad too many Americans are stupid

Shes going to win this nomination.

[bunnies]

17. I only wish I could disagree with you about the intelligence of most people...

but Im not yet willing to accept that she's going to win the nod.

[MadBadger]

18. The trend lately is that she is closing in in Iowa, and separating again in NH

I also am generally a pessimistic person, so Im doubting him in Iowa. Ive actually started researching Bloomberg now because of this.

[bunnies]

29. *sigh*

I know what you mean. But it might make you feel good to know that I was turned away from an Obama event tonight. And it hasnt even happened yet. There were already too many people more than an hour before it started.

If he wins Iowa, the bump here will put him over the top. And we have a debate Jan 5th! After Iowa. Anything can happen.

[Cha]

63. hnmnf.. no

she's not.

[elizm]

13. She is pathetic. nt

[AnnieHall]

14. Experience?

I watch HGTV a lot; does that make me an experienced "Interior Designer"?

First lady is not an elected position, so where does Hill get away with saying she has "Presidential Experience"?

Whatsmore, if we are looking for change, would we be just as excited if Jeb Bush jumped parties, adopted a new platform, and became a Democrat candidate?

Bushes and Clintons; enough of them both!

As for me, I don't want to see the 90's revisited. With Bill as first "Laddy", what would be different??????

As for experience, Bill claimed before his first term that his lack of Presidential experience was a plus. Why is it a negative for Obama??????

And shame on any of you that have given Oprah grief for endorsing Obama. She's done more good for Americans than any elected official.

[ccpup]

15. go and do some research

this quote from you ("First lady is not an elected position, so where does Hill get away with saying she has "Presidential Experience"?) shows you're not only woefully uneducated about what she's actually done since, at least, 1978 for children and families, but that you also apparently seem to be unwilling to actually do the necessary foot work to answer your own question before taking the opportunity to slam somebody.

So, do a quick Google Search -- hint: Hillary Clinton seems to work just fine -- and then maybe you'll see what she means.

[MadBadger]

16. But where is this foreign policy experience she brags about?

[ccpup]

24. and how many meetings has Obama

called as Chair of that Foreign Relations Committee he heads?

Reminds me of an Assistant I interviewed a while back. Had a great thing on her resume she kept referring to and building up, but, when I called for the reference, she had been there one day and then disappeared. She got it on the resume but didn't do a damn thing with it.

When Obama's met, has worked with and gained the trust of foreign leaders -- over 80 in all for Hillary --, we'll talk. (And don't diminish the pivotal role as Ambassador a First Lady can play. With the thin resume Obama has, I wouldn't be throwing many stones if I were you) But I don't think he has been as active because he's been too busy campaigning. Or down with the stomach flu. Or voting Present.

[MadBadger]

38. Im not arguing for Obama hear, Im arguing for Biden and Richardson

[ccpup]

39. my mistake

your Obama icon threw me

[ccpup]

33. check it out, if you're interested

Anyone who doubts Hillary Clinton's impact on the world stage might want to check with the top political leaders in Northern Ireland, who cite her work to end sectarian violence there and help secure a lasting peace.

Anyone who doubts Hillary Clinton's international experience might consult with democracy activists in the Slovak Republic, who remember when she stood in solidarity with them and publicly challenged their new government's suppression of civil society.

They might talk to women - from the Philippines to Latin America to the Middle East - who can vote, own property, or go to school, because Hillary Clinton helped start a global women's movement for women's rights. Or they might travel to Africa and Asia, where Hillary Clinton visited countless remote villages to show how the poorest of the poor could become entrepreneurial and self-sufficient when given access to small loans.

(more at link)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lissa-muscatine-and-melanne-verveer/hillarys-unprecedented-e_b_76883.html

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

56. You dont get to answer a question with a question...

[loveangelc]

77. exactly. I cannot understand how she says she has foreign policy experience

and build her campaign around that when she has not even dealt them directly.

[JanusAscending]

32. SHAME ON YOU !!

for your "kind" response to our new member!! and By the way, I agree totally with the new poster. I'll use your post to welcome her? Him? We are not all as crass as ccpup !! GOBAMA!!

[ccpup]

36. discerning christian?

yeah, calling me crass. sounds just about right.

[JanusAscending]

42. I'm so discerning that.........

I can recognize a Hillary die hard, by the nastiness they spew at a fellow democrat, on a democratic forum, you're cut from the same mold! I don't hate Hillary, and I don't normally badmouth her, but It's a two way street our here, ya know? I just like OBAMA better! Fired Up!!

[cali]

26. I don't know what to say to someone who actually believes this:

"And shame on any of you that have given Oprah grief for endorsing Obama. She's done more good for Americans than any elected official."

So a talk show host has done more good than Ted Kennedy or John Kerry or Barbara Boxer or Russ Feingold or Pat Leahy or....

Please. She's a talk show host. She's an opinion maker, but she has not done more good than "any elected official". Not. Even. Close.

[ccpup]

30. but ... but ...

what about all those cars she's given away? or the ... um ... er ... or the books ... yeah, the books she's encouraged people to read? She's a billionaire! That's gotta count for something, right? Right?!

[bunnies]

31. but she did give out some cars!

:evilgrin:

[ccpup]

34. ha!

I got there first. neener-neener-neener :evilgrin:

[zulchzulu]

74. Welcome to DU!

And yes, you are correct!

[maximusveritas]

19. Fearmongering from the Clinton camp

If they want to make comparisons to Bush, the best one is the comparison to 2004 when Bush was saying it was too dangerous to hand the keys to Kerry and Edwards.
Clinton's just repeating the argument but with Obama and Edwards.

[ccpup]

25. and after the train wreck that was/is **

-- and I'm still convinced he didn't "win" either of those Elections --, the American people might just decide to go for substance and a solid resume built on over 30 years of work instead of a pretty white smile, shiny hair and a lot of rhetoric with little experience to back it up.

[JanusAscending]

44. OH, you did it now!!

Now I've really got your number!!Talk to the hand now pup!!:thumbsdown:

[ccpup]

47. lol

oh God give me the strength to survive this devastating, disappointing, heart-crushing and earth-shattering Thumbs Down.

I had no idea we were in Grade School here. Learn something new -- well, some of us do -- everyday, I guess.

[suston96]

20. Comedy central...?

Looks like Hillary has some new writers. Clearly she has hit the spot.

Obama and Edwards have neither senate experience nor anything else that compares with Hillary's many years in or around the Presidency.

In fact there are rumors that she may even have slept with the American President.

[MadBadger]

22. So Edwards doesnt have Senate Experience now?

Are you serious?

[suston96]

27. "So Edwards doesnt have Senate Experience now?"

Is that what I said? I don't think so. Try again.

"Obama and Edwards have neither senate experience nor anything else that compares with Hillary's many years in or around the Presidency."

[MadBadger]

40. "Compares to Hillary's many years IN or around the presidency"

First of all, was she president and I just didnt know it? She is not Bill Clinton, and somebody needs to tell her that.

[suston96]

43. Uh, she was First Lady for 8 years and that makes her IN or AROUND the Presidency.

Sorry if you have a problem with my word salad.

[MadBadger]

45. Makes her around the presidency

In the presidency would be if she was the president. And then if I bring up "Why cant Laura Bush be president?" you guys dismiss me.

[suston96]

48. Laura Bush has been IN or AROUND the Presidency for 8 years.

Eleanor Roosevelt was IN or AROUND the FDR Presidency for 12 years - and 3 months.

Obama and Edwards senatorial experience does not compare with Hillary's added experience as First Lady and all the proximity to the Presidency that it enjoyed.

There were First Ladies who "served" as virtual Presidents for the time that their husbands were, uh - indisposed.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

57. Im sorry being the first lady gets you zero experience points with me

That would be like saying being the Son of a president is worth jack spit...

[Cha]

64. And we all know

the dyNASTY thing is not workin' for us.

[MissWaverly]

23. She will never get my vote by insulting me, I never voted for

Bush, except I voted on a crooked GOP rigged machine that voted 5 x for Bush when I tried to vote for Kerry. I like Edwards,
he has progressive ideas and I hear little from the top tier democrats in the House or Senate about progressive ideas during
non-election periods.

[cali]

28. Then you're not paying attention.

The Progressive Caucus in the House, the CBC and Senators like Feingold, Boxer and others work for progressive causes year in and year out.

[MissWaverly]

35. well, I like Boxer but there's been very little progress since 2006

Schip just went down in flames again, Iraq keeps bubbling along, election reform?????? and bush cronies are rarely if ever weeded out. About the only real progress this year is in the minimum wage hike. Oh, and those incacerated at GITMO continue and
the warrantless eavesdropping continues unabated, sounds like a progressive congress to me.

:-)

[cali]

41. It's a Senate that's 49-49-2- and one of the 2 is LIEberman

It's simply not a workable majority. And bush cronies have been weeded out- lots of them.

[MissWaverly]

53. well, any progress from the status quo would be appreciated

When the "Arnold" has to sue a GOP prez to get needed regulation done, we have passed broken. The loyal bushies don't even represent
their own base.

[AtomicKitten]

46. Her YES votes for IWR and K-L show the same logic as the GOP war scheme advocates.

[suston96]

49. "Her YES votes for IWR and K-L show the same logic as the GOP war scheme advocates."

Hardly. Her votes included caveats for diplomacy and/or UN compliances. And guess what? That seems to be the prevailing wisdom these days since the NIEs cannot seem to be trusted.

[AtomicKitten]

50. I LUV it when a Democrat tries to sell war by calling it diplomacy.

Funny how all of us equipped with only a computer, the internets, and our brains knew what Junior would do with that blank check issued by the Senators who gave up their Constitutionally-mandated war-declaring powers to an idiot.

Best of luck putting lipstick on that pig.

[BootinUp]

52. No need to put lipstick on it

Hillary leads the national polls by over 15% despite all of the anti-war lefts wailing and gnashing of teeth. It is your side that needs the lipstick. ;)

[sniffa]

55. see, that's what i don't get about Hillary backers

you're rooting for her to win, and if she does, then everyone loses.

whatever. keep taking the left for granted and pissing on them.

[BootinUp]

59. Heres what you don't get

The Dem party was checkmated on Iraq before the IWR was voted on.

Also that most Democrats get it.

[Cha]

66. Here's what I don't

get...Wes Clark was against the War On Iraq and now he's for hillary..musta changed his mind.

[BootinUp]

69. No, you don't get the same thing

as my friend sniffa.

[Cha]

71. Yeah, I'm pretty sure we

both don't get hillbots.

[suston96]

51. Yeah, all the above and this, too.......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3869554

[Renew Deal]

54. Hillary turned into George HW Bush and Obama is Bill Clinton

This is the argument from 1992 when things were beginning to look more peaceful. It's amazing how the roles have reveresed.

[killbotfactory]

58. She blew the most important vote on war in her career

That's the kind of experience we don't need.

[BenDavid]

60. obama to turn the page and all u find is a blank page.

[Cha]

61. WTF? hillary is so 1984.

Is hillary ever going to turn the page?

A vote for hillary is a vote for the bushite neocons and little miss liarpants has the record to prove it.

[calteacherguy]

65. This new campaign "strategy" will seal the her fate. I'm delighted. nt

[suston96]

67. Logic? "Turn back the hands of time...."

...remember that old song? I doubt it. None of you are old enough.

But, the question remains, what if Hillary had voted against the resolution? Where would your logic take you?

How about this: It don't make no diffrunce how Hillary or anybody else voted. Bush and Cheney and the rest would have done whatever the fuck they wanted. And they did!

Because we have nothing in our Constitution that could stop them.

Better concentrate on the seminally diseased politics in this country because these primaries don't amount to a hill of beans (betcha you don't remember that one either) compared to what is a fatal constitutional void in our system of government - a runaway executive.

Someone referred to the Congress recently as the "primary branch of government" which of course, it is. Only Congress doesn't know it.

Instead of concentrating on the bullshit driving these laughable comedic primary elections, we should be concentrating on that primary branch of government - the first branch of government framed in the Constitution - that doesn't realize it has the power to stop the runaway Executive.

Hillary's one vote doesn't amount to a hill of beans....Oh, I already said that.

[BootinUp]

73. They would have crushed us

in the election and invaded on the same day in March. The only chance to stop them was to increase international opposition by getting the UN inspectors in there. Even that was a long shot with Bush the bloody in office as we saw.

[Skidmore]

68. Yup, she's likeable alright...

cuddly, like a scorpion.

[K Gardner]

70. Introducing Hillary Rodham Clinton as Sybil (had too many faces for Eve)

Disgusted, yet thrilled in a macabre sort of way, to see the very predictable desperation of a move toward FEAR WAR FEAR TERROR, by Hillary. You go girl. What's the campaign slogan THIS week?

[zulchzulu]

72. There is nothing surprising at all with what Hillary is doing at this point

Hillary changes views on issues like people change their socks. She will say anything to any group that fits what she thinks will make her feel liked. She wants acceptance and power at all costs.

If she said before that it would be wrong to attack fellow Democrats and compare them to Bush, you should consider that she would do exactly that.

As for her genius at foreign policy matters, just look at her votes. She got suckered by Bush with Iraq and recently with Iran. She is naive, petty and endless with her deceptive nature.

[Skidmore]

75. zulch, some of those pairs of socks are getting really rank by now.

:)

[ClarkUSA]

76. Did Hillary forget to take her meds again? Because she's beginning to hallucinate...

Anoher day, another Orwellian BS moment from The Neocon Queen of Parsing.

[mnhtnbb]

78. Go bake some cookies, Hill. You're full of it.