Thom Hartmann call in straw poll ...

[Hieronymus]

Edwards 38
Kucinich 27
Hillary 4
Obama 3
Biden 1
Dodd 2
Richardson 2
Carter 1
Gore 1
Ron Paul 1

[SoFlaJet]

1. expect the Hillary-ites

to quickly discount this poll-they did the same thing yesterday with a Daily Kos poll I posted-that Edwards ALSO won....don't tell the MSM that a LOT of progressives actually believe him to be our best candidate with the best chance to win-you hardly ever even hear his name mentioned. It's always Clinton and Obama.

[ronnykmarshall]

4. As a "Hillary-ite"

first off .... kiss my ass for that remark.

Second - I don't buy the polls either. I listen to Hartman everyday and I've been very impressed at the numbers Edwards gets. A local radio station did the same and Edwards won as well.

This "Hillary-ite" doesn't buy the bullshit the media reports.

[SoFlaJet]

6. here's and example from yesterday

1. this poll is about as real as the zogby interactive poll.....

5. Hell, anyone can glance at those numbers and see how
skewed they are. If you believe that poll, I've got a bridge to sell ya.

FYI, every national poll has Obama and Clinton leading with Edwards pulling a (not so) distant third.

[Kucinich4America]

8. What's wrong with Hartmann's poll?

Do you know how it works?

You call in, he says your area code, and takes your vote. That's it. totally random. If all the calls were coming from the same area code for the same candidate, then that might look suspicious. If the Edwards campaign actually has a nationwide coordinated call in campaign every single week, then good for them for being able to pull that off. But somehow I doubt that's the case.

The Media whore illusion of Clinton vs Obama (and nobody else matters) is just that. An illusion. I still don't know a single person in the "real world" who is supporting Hillary, though I do know some who are considering Obama, or Edwards.

[SoFlaJet]

9. yea I was responding to the one above me K4A

and you're right-I don't know anybody down here in Florida who has anything kind to say about her either

[IndyOp]

20. I am strongly pro-Edwards, but Hartmann's poll is based on a

convenience sample -- whoever calls in -- it is not a random sample by any stretch of the imagination.

Further, it is highly like the sample is biased. Thom really, really like Edwards and has said so on air - people who like Edwards are more likely to call because they expect that Thom will approve of their choice. Also, any loyal Hartmann listeners are likely to lean toward Edwards because Thom's very best insights about what is wrong with our nation match nicely with Edwards' positions -- so Thom's fans are likely to also be fans of Edwards.

I hope Edwards has more support than is currently evident in the national polls - I think he might, but I don't know how much more...

[FogerRox]

24. Ahhh, its Air America.

....enough said.

[Hieronymus]

11. Ha Ha .. skewed? These are real progressives, and they like Edwards.

[JackORoses]

14. But you're willing to buy everything that Hillary feeds you? what a shame.

[TheWatcher]

30. Hillary is fast becoming more like a Cult than a Candidate with some people.

It's like a State Of Mind.

I hate to break it to some. She is NOT the Second Coming Of Christ.

She isn't even the Second Coming Of Bill.

[TheWatcher]

29. You petulant little ones never miss the chance to spew some sort of derogatory insult do you?

This is just getting sad. The level of discourse you guys are bringing to the table is getting quite childish.

See if you can make your point without having to resort to some kind of sandbox invitation to kiss your ass, go fuck ourselves, or whatever other tired insults you have in your arsenals.

[ronnykmarshall]

2. and Thom's cat got two votes!

[IndyOp]

21. Higgins for President!

[Doctor_J]

3. VP Edwards will be getting my primary vote here in the great state of MI

He, and, to a lesser extent, Obama, are the only two who have a chance to actually make the right wing irrelevant over the next 8 years.

[SharonRB]

5. Unfortunately, Edwards will not be on the Michigan ballot

Your best bet is to vote "uncommitted."

[Kucinich4America]

10. Isn't the Michigan ballot basically useless?

I thought they were "disqualified" for moving up their primary?

[SharonRB]

12. Basically, yes

Although the powers that be around here don't think the DNC will follow through and not seat our delegates. I think they just may.

[LisaM]

7. Edwards always kicks ass in that poll

I've been listening since the first time he did it. And my bet would be that if Kucinich voters picked a number two, at least half, if not more, would be picking Edwards as well.

[AspenRose]

33. You are correct

Thom has done this poll *numerous* times (twice that I've heard personally) and the results are usually JRE and the Kooch at the top.

[Steely_Dan]

13. You Forgot...

the two votes for Thom's cat.

-P

[Evergreen Emerald]

15. interesting that they use the last name for the males, but the first name for the female

What a bunch of sexist crap.

[FlyingSquirrel]

16. I've noticed that too... I always use "Clinton" myself.

Even though she's my 2nd to last choice, I feel that it is disrespectful. (Mainly to her supporters. I don't have very much respect for her, but since her supporters are people I'm associating with daily on this board I prefer to maintain some kind of comity.) Her detractors usually use her first name. I think a lot of people just don't like the name. It's not that common anymore. I bet if her first name was "Michelle" people wouldn't be using it as much.

[Quixote1818]

19. Actually, Hillary wants you to call her Hillary

Or she wouldn't have the name Hillary on all her bumper stickers.

http://www.votehillarypresident.org/

Also, see my other post on this subject.

[IndyOp]

22. Thank you Quixote - Hillary wants to be called Hillary...

because she needs to distinguish herself from Bill as an independent, capable leader. I think it is also because she knows that a lot of us (me and others) are really, really distressed about the Presidential dynasties that are emerging - Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton,...

[FlyingSquirrel]

25. I figured she did.. But I noticed that her bashers NEVER use "Clinton"

My senator, Patty Murray, prefers to go by "Patty" too and has a link saying "Ask Patty". I personally think that is not very dignified for a senator, but on the other hand the more I see them on the floor of the senate the less I respect them regardless.

[IndyOp]

31. I wrestle with the use of formal titles -- it does remind us that

some people have reached their position because they've worked hard and deserve respect. And I really do see that it is very, very useful to use a formal title when someone is, as a result of prejudice, generally disrespected - women, ethnic or religious minorities. I have very mixed feelings, still.

For example: I am a 40-something woman who teaches at a university. If I don't ask my students to call me "Dr. IndyOp" then they call me "Ms." or "Mrs." and I end up being treated as if I am one of their high school teachers instead of a professor. Almost NEVER are male faculty members called "Mr." -- students always call them "Dr. Name" even if they don't have a doctoral degree. OFTEN female faculty are called "Ms." or "Mrs." -- and it irks me. Still, I have mixed feelings about asking students to use my title because the use of formal titles reinforces an authoritarian mentality that I despise. We have to distinguish between "just authority" and "unjust authority" and to treat just authority with respect - including the formal title. Failing to use the formal title is an appropriate sign of disrespect to an unjust authority.

It is however a catch-22. Women politicians who use their first names are, in some ways, forced to do so for marketing purposes. Males and females respond in a more disciplined fashion to instructions given by men -- dad, male teacher, boss, politician. Males and females expect females in authority - mom, teacher, boss, politician - to lead by creating an emotional connection and cajoling people into co-operating. What you wind up with is that the style that is more effective is different for men and women:

Males with authoritarian (masculine) leadership style are more effective than males with co-operative (feminine) leadership style.

Women with co-operative (feminine) leadership style are more effective than women with authoritarian (masculine) leadership style.

Women who communicate that they are co-operative leaders by using their first names will get further with voters - particularly for high (glass ceiling) offices.

I would really rather have a female VP before we have a female Pres -- I think that the media, males and females, will rip a female Pres to shreds before and during her time in office.

[FlyingSquirrel]

32. You think they won't rip 'em as VP? Think Ferrarro...

My daughter's principal (female) goes by "Dr. Stewart". At first it put me off but once I saw how well she ran the school it actually gave me more respect for her than she might have gotten with just "Ms." or "Mrs." On the other hand, if I had disapproved of her style, it might have made me think she was a cast-iron you know what. However, when my daughter was in kindergarten her principal went by "Ms. Zoe", Zoe being her first name. That was interesting, but she had it in for my daughter so I disliked her no matter what.

[IndyOp]

34. I remember Ferrarro -- and to be clear about where I am coming from

I should say that I don't want Hillary to be Pres or VP. I do think that a woman could be VP candidate and VP and not be ripped the same way that Ferrarro was ripped -- the glass ceiling has been raised since the time that she ran.

[Hieronymus]

23. Her campaign ads refer to her as Hillary .. that should give you a clue.

[Quixote1818]

18. I heard Karl Rove on the Sean Hannity show yesterday

saying that Clinton has worked to get people to call her Hillary because it sounds more personal. Thats why they put Hillary instead of Clinton on her bumper stickers. Seems the person you should blame for this is Hillary and not your fellow DUers. Rove said that Republicans should call her "Senator Clinton" which sounds less personal.


See here: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://www.votehillarypresident.org/&h=105&w=200&sz=4&hl=en&start=11&um=1&tbnid=yWwVqzB7Jz_KgM:&tbnh=55&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3DHillary%2BClinton%2Bbumper%2Bstickers%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN

[TheDoorbellRang]

26. That's always irritated me, too

'nuff said

[Quixote1818]

27. Blame Hillary then

She is the one who wants you to call her Hillary.

http://www2.demstore.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/scstore/Clinton/?E+scstore+done

[Renew Deal]

28. Then Hillary is a sexist

Do you want me to find her campaign signs from 2006?

[GreenTea]

17. Who would be so ignorant as to vote for a republican?

Paul is, has been and always will be a republican party supporting clown.