My take as to why Nader is IRRELEVANT...Relax, folks.

[DannyRed]

Nader is Irrelevant.

Most people who voted for Nader in 2000 would probably not have voted...

It is my opinion that Nader probably "captured" about half a percent of the Democratic vote overall in 2000.

It is my further opinion that Nader will capture even less of the disaffected Democrat vote this time around - he is not running as a Green, which means that he cannot even talk about "building the Green Party alternative" as a vote-getter for the progressives.

Even more, I think that 99.9% of disaffected Dems and Progressives are so angry and upset and scared about Bush and the GOP freaks that they will vote for the "lesser Evil" if only to give the country the time, space, and breathing room to get active to reform the Democratic party and/or build third party alternatives.

That said, I think that the freaked out hysterical screaming and yelling is destructive, alienating, and self-defeating.

Demonizing, threatening, guilt-tripping, sneering, crying, whining, yelling, and etc...will NOT bring the hard-core lef vote back into the Democratic fold - it was never there in the first place, and will not be there in the future.

Further, such behavior and activity will alienate those who waver on the crux of deciding to vote third party or vote Democratic...

Kerry voters need only think back to the days of November and December, when they were being abjured, yelled at, demonized, and etc...to vote for the "inevitable Dean"....

How did you feel?

Did such treatment make you more or less likely to switch to Dean, or did it make you more or less likely to vote for ABD out of spite and personal affront?

Ignore Nader.

respond to Nader and Nader voters with respect, with facts, and with implacable resolve - that Kerry or Edwards is infinitely better than Bush....

If inclined, you could even throw some Kudos to the progressives and the nader folks, and say "yes, there are problems and issues, and yes there are some things that nader says that are true and that need to be dealt with...BUT, we need a stable platform to deal with them, and a Bush presidency in 2004 is NOT the way to do that."

Be nice. Be respectful. Be calm.

As it is, there are many who seem desperate. Shrill. Panicky.

And that is not the way to convince the waverers.

The hard core is not available for convincing.

The waverers are, and by seeming freaked out, you simply push them away...

Be STRONG, not shrill.

Be CALM, not desperate.

Be SOLID, not vituperative, not insulting, not threatening.

learn a lesson from things like the 1999 seattle riots - those alienated a lot of people from causes that they would otherwise support and trumpet, because whacked out, crazy, angry, spittle-flecked, mouth-breathing, threatening shrieks of outrage are offensive, alienating, wierd, and upsetting...and not likely to do you any good.

Thus spoke a Socialist, Deaniac, Former Nader Voter who is now committed to a strategic vote for the eventual Democratic Nominee in hopes that a win by that nominee will make space and time to reform the Democratic Party or Build a viable third party.

Peace.


Edited for a catchier title...

[mzmolly]

1. Great post DannyRed...

:toast:

[DannyRed]

5. Thanks mzmolly...

I read these forums and I sometimes just shake my head...

Are we so collectively immature and weak?

Are we really as blind, selfish, and lame as many of these posts would indicate?

I certainly hope not, and I really don't think so.

[RafterMan]

2. Well said

Being a point down on Bush with four possible points to grab on your left and who knows how many on your right seems like incredibly strong position before the race has even really started.

But to beat Bush, Kerry has to start defining himself as more than ABB. For now, at least, I think he can reach both left and right for votes without being two-faced by chosing his themes well.

[NC_Nurse]

3. Well said!

Thank you for your insight.:)

[many a good man]

4. Excellent advice.

Thanks. One more thing. Tell them that if things still suck after four years of a pro-corporate Democrat both parties' pro-corporate agendas will be exposed for the failures they are. It will set the stage for a populist movement in both parties, devoid of senseless wedge issues, that will finally start tackling some of our long range problems...

[spooky3]

6. check out my poll

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=384001

One motivation for doing it was to find out if something related to your point happened (among DUers anyway):

"Most people who voted for Nader in 2000 would probably not have voted..."

[mzmolly]

7. Suggestion If you put "Nader is irrelevant" in the title, it may bring

more conversation? Justa suggestion... ;)

:kick:

[FloridaPat]

8. He got 97,000 votes in Florida and Bush "won" by about 500.

He should not be running. Hopefully he will run long enough to make a point and the week before the election tell everyone to vote Democratic.

[DannyRed]

9. Bush didn't win

The recounts were rigged.

Gore won the vote without Nader voters, and then lost the court fight street fight game playing...

I figure that 99% of that 97,000 number was NOT going to vote for Gore regardless of Nader.

so, Gore lost 970 votes to nader.

This time around, I would bet my booty that those 970 votes, plus another 5000 at least would go to Gore and not Nader.

Don't expect any heroics from nader to benefit the Democrats.

he is running AGAINST the Democrats, and he has some good reasons to do so, even if those reasons are overwhelmed by the real, urgent, serious need to beat Bush regardless of the problems with the Democratic Party.

[jonnyblitz]

10. I think he is irrelevent until I see polls telling me otherwise

which I hope DOESNT happen. I could never vote for him yet I don't think he is the anti-christ either

[DannyRed]

11. Here is a strikingly parallel analysis

from a source that I deeply respect as a committed progressive - a 2000 Nader supporter...

Tom Tomorrow...cartoonist of This Modern World

http://www.thismodernworld.com/weblog/mtarchives/week_2004_02_22.html#001344

[DannyRed]

12. I am kicking this because this

board is getting ridiculously hysterical, shrill, and weird.

Sabotaging campaigns?

nader as a paid agent of the Right?

Give me a fucking break, people.

Get a grip!

You sound lame, and you only serve to further alienate potential swing constituencies.

Relax.