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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:12 PM
Original message
Lamenting over Kerry and Dean
Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 09:22 PM by Cascadian
This past week has been very sad for me. I was truly hoping Howard Dean would not let go of his presidential campaign. In an ideal world, Dean would be miles ahead of Kerry and Edwards. I was depressed and gutted when Dean announced he was no longer running for president.

The reason for my lament was not because Dean dropped out. It was the way the media had totally and admittedly spun and made Dean into some screaming maniac who's anger should be reviled. If you are not angry with the way things have been going wrong in this country, you do not have a pulse. Howard Dean, if he was angry, he wanted you to feel angry with what has been going on, and he wanted people to channel that anger and getting involved. He should be thanked by all Democrats for that.

I also hated the way the Kerry campaign stole Dean's campaign message and style. In January, Kerry's campaign was going nowhere and then suddenly Kerry morphed into this Howard Dean wannabe. All of his message and mannerisms all had the patent of Howard Dean. I also have issues with the way the caucuses in my state of Washington were handled. There were certain Kerry people who were pressuring voters into joining their camp and this was not aimed at Dean supporters but those who liked Kucinich and Clark. I was getting pushed but I stood my ground with Dean. My suspicions are also enhanced by the people who were organizing the caucus. It seemed all deliberately unorganized and the counting was suspect. Suspicions enhanced by ab article in the recent Stranger http://www.thestranger.com/2004-02-12/city.html and some discussions on the Mike Webb Show. Also this article about Howard Dean's "assassination" http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=17881 . I also had spoken with other people about their caucus experience and shared my view about how it was all handled.

The DNC also played a part in the Dean "assassination". This must have been because Dean said that the Democratic Party leadership needed to change. Face it, DUers. The Democratic Party has catered too much to the multinationals and plays favor to the Republicans too much. Howard Dean made the wake up call to this. I am happy that Dean will still be around to call Terry McAuliffe and the rest of the leadership. I am hoping Dean will never be silent about this and I look forward to faction he wants to help create to counter the mushy middle DLC that now dominates and dare I say is ruining the party. I would recommend that Dean patches up whatever differences he may have with Kucinich and help achieve taking the Democratic Party back to it's progressive roots. The Democrats cannot act as a "Republican Lite" choice to the Republicans. What kind of a choice is that? As the neocons that have taken over the Republican Party, the Democrats cannot and should not allow to give their party over to the conservatives or conservative wannabes. America as a democracy would considered a joke.

With all of this, I am not saying that Dean was perfect. The only things that really contributed to his demise in the race is the fact he was blunt. Maybe too blunt. Especially when he stated he wanted to break the corporate media monopolies and wanted to replace the DNC leadership. It was all revenge aimed at Dean. His bluntness made him the only candidate that could effectivley beat Bush. John Kerry maybe liberal on issues with the environment and veteran's issues, but you cannot deny that during Bush II's tenure, Kerry supported the "Leave a Child Behind" bill, Patriot Act, Bush's tax cuts, and the damning one of all, the support for the invasion of Iraq which has sent over 500 young men and women and thousands of Iraqis to their deaths. How on Creator's Earth can you say that Kerry is different than Bush????

I know there is going to be some people out there that think I should get over the fact Dean lost. People will also think that I should be in lock-step with supporting Kerry. Why should I? If we all fall into lock-step and follow what the DNC or DLC says or does then we are no different than the Republicans. Is that what you want? If Kerry does get the nomination, I will vote for him out of necessary reluctance. I will not send any of money to his campaign, I will not actively work on his campiagn, nor will I even place a John Kerry bumper sticker anywhere. And yes. I will call Kerry on anything I disagree with. I hope many Dean supporters will do the same.

Also if anybody is going to beat Bush in November, it won't be John Kerry, it will be Bush that will beat Bush. Unless he and Rove have an ace up their sleeve and I would not put anything past them to do so.

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MurikanDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. Fair enough to express your grief. I hope nobody flames you,
but it's a free for all in here today.

hugs
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jansu Donating Member (473 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. Dean has NOT withdrawn from the race, Vote for him!
He said he was not actively campaigning but he has asked all of his supporters to still vote for him in all the Primaries and that the more candidates he gets to take to the Convention, the more power his positions will have! Get that message out and Vote for Dean!
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Washington State already had the caucus.
I stuck with Dean.

John
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NEOBuckeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. On the bright side...
There doesn't seem to be any bad blood between Dean and Kerry. If Kerry gets the Presidential Nomination and wins, maybe he'll appoint Dean to a Cabinet position?


My pick for Dean: FCC CHAIRMAN!
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Hadn't thought of that . . . Dean at FCC would ROCK!!!!!! n/t
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hope you feel better; Dean is a good man and he will keep active in
Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 09:26 PM by emulatorloo
politics and active in reshaping the Dem Party. That's what you should do too, and all of us - get involved locally and work hard to make sure good candidates get into office.

BTW, Kerry is not as bad as you think. A lot of the things you hear are just campaign rhetoric, and shouldn't be taken too seriously. He has done a lot of good things, cares about the right issues and will make a very good President.

edit - grammar
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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. I listened to Kerry on ThisWeek. He didn't sound bush-lite or like Dean
Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 09:30 PM by Sensitivity
I think even in our grief at some much effort and money seemingly
lost. But we have to give credit to other Candidates that they have
characters and ideas of their own. Kucinich has his own voice, Kerry
has his own, Edwards has his own. All similar since we are all
democrats, but still distinct. Its beatifull and expected.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Thank You. Give credit. Kerry worked Iowa hard.
He fought for every vote. He stayed at town halls for every last question.
He came. He spoke. They asked questions and they liked the answers.
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Scott Lee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Kerry's a chameleon
He's like the weather....if you don't like it, wait five minutes and it will change. For instance, he has two form letters he sends out to constituents that that speak out on the Iraq war. One is for the opponents, playing him up almost as though he personally stopped the Vietnam war. The other one is for the war supporters, and he plays up his standing firm with Bush-hole against "terror". Both letters are designed for one thing - to make him look good to the target.

So which Kerry do we listen to? There are so many, it's becoming hard to keep the focus...


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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. you're right on that one except for the Kucinich part....they're different
ideologically.
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Scott Lee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Yep. Kerry voted for war, Kucinich did not.
Good example.
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nradisic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. Amen to that
As a very active and involved Dean supporter since Nov. 2002, I echo your sentiments exactly. I know many authentic Dean supporters that feel the same way. I will vote for whomever the Democratic nominee is in November, but with reluctance, knowing that person is not anywhere near to as good as Dean, but certainly better than Bush.

The progressive message and grassroots energy that Dean has harnessed needs to continue growing in one form or another, otherwise we will be stuck with the DLC and DNC dominating the thinking in the Democratic party, and we all know what the GOP is up to. Where is the ultimate choice? There really isn't one....not a real one. That is why Nader has decided to run days after Dean bowed out. I hope to God that we don't have a redux of 2000 because Dean has stepped down.

I'm still voting for Dean in my last in the nation primary in NJ.
My vote is my voice
and I will not be silenced!
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I knew once Dean pulled back Nader would step in.
I could have bet money on it and came away a winner.


John
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. it never came as a surprise to me, which is why the hysteria over Nader
is extremely funny.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Really funny to you that the Dem nominee will now have to spend...
...precious dollars on two fronts instead of one, huh? While Bush has 200 million to spend to bash the Dem nominee plus whatever Nader can throw at him too. You appear to have an odd sense of humor. Let me ask you something. Does the thought of a belly full of pinworms make you feel all giggly too?

Don

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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. funny in the sense because the Dem party marginalized the left, and
this is what they're getting in return through a Nader run.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Dean wasn't doing shit for the left
either in Vermont or in this campaign.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. oh, he was----he presented a clear alternative to Kerry because
Kerry voted for the same things that Bush had implemented, and Dean was against that.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Laugh your way back to 4 more years of Bush then if thats what you want
That will show 'em.

Don

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Scott Lee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. If Kerry wins we get 4 more years of Bushhole anyway
Kerry supported Bushhole on every major issue in this election. Skull and Bonesmen don't turn on each other.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Do you think Kerry is going to keep Ashcroft around too? n/t
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Scott Lee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. You never know. He changes on issues like the wind direction
with Senator 'Tox's late epiphanies regarding the goodness of ANWR drilling, plus his support of Bush-hole in five or six major election issues, he may just decide old John Ashcroft isnt so bad after all.

Remember that Kerrytox supported both Patriot Acts.


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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Karma's a bitch, ain't it, NNN0LHI?
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. What is your point Eloriel?
You gonna' really show 'em too 'eh? Hey. Knock yourself out.

Don

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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. Dean has made a tremendous, permanent difference.
Good for him, and lucky for us.

But we have a lot of work yet to do.
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
17. kick
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Paradise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
26. kudos to dean
dean deserves full credit for waking the democratic party up, and putting them on the map again. unfortunately, the media, and the
dnc 'have the power', and used it to give us kerry and edwards.
(a clark supporter)
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
28. kick
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