I am no longer sure that I can stomach HIllary as our nominee after what she said this morning.

[Perky]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1207/Obamas_surprises.html


Clinton didn't mention specifics in the taping of an interview on "Iowa Press" this morning, but drew a contrast with unnamed rivals that echoes Bill Shaheen's now-notorious claim that unexplored elements of Obama's candidacy will make him an easy Republican target.

"I’ve been tested, I’ve been vetted," she said. "There are no surprises. There’s not going to be anybody saying, 'I didn’t think of that, my goodness, what’s that going to mean?'"

This appears to be the emerging core of the elect-ability case against Obama: that elements of his public record and -- unspoken -- his private past, could scuttle what should be a Democratic sure thing, and that he is untested by real partisan combat.

"Whoever we nominate will be subjected to the full force of the Republican attack machine, and I know that they know I know that and I have no illusions about what this race will entail," she said.

UPDATE: Asked to elaborate on what she's suggesting about Obama, Clinton has an answer ready: "I’m only talking about myself."


SO BASICALLY, THE REASON TO VOTE FOR HER IS BECAUSE SHE HAS NO SECRETS, BUT IT IS POSSIBLE THAT OBAMA MIGHT. ABSENCE OF ANY THING THAT DAMNS YOU, MAKES YOU SUSPECT.

What's worse? The Arrogant notion that she thinks she thinks she had been immunized from scandal or her warning that we should wait until Obama or anyone else be as vetted as she before casting our ballots? Mr. Obama please prove you are clean...never mind that I am not because everyone knows my history".

Shades of the GOP in the Clinton Years.....Shades of Joe McCarthy.

[rinsd]

1. Hillary is not scandal proof. But does everyone here have collective amnesia about the GOP?

[CTyankee]

15. One would think she is not scandal proofed, but what else can the GOP possibly

hit her with? She's been accused of murder, ruining people's livlihood, using inside information on a stock purchase, secret plotting, channeling Eleanor Roosevelt,lesbianism, even conceiving Chelsea as a result of Bill raping her! Who knows, maybe she got a D her freshman year at Wellesley (like Kerry did at Yale) and hid it all these years! Maybe she cheated on her SAT? Maybe she pliagarized a speech. They'll have to dig pretty deep, IMHO.

[rinsd]

28. Their depravity knows no bounds.

Witness the "Hillary is a having a lesbian affair with her aide" BS that cropped up earlier this campaign season.

[CTyankee]

34. THat stuff is just old. They'll have to come up with something pretty awful

to surpass the Vince Foster thing. I can't imagine what is worse than to be accused of murdering your best friend!

[leftynyc]

40. I love that she simultaeously

is a lesbian and had affairs with both Web Hubbel and Vince Foster. I picture the insides of their brains like a pin ball machine.

[proudmoddemo]

56. Maybe She's Bi-Sexual?

:) A Joke. But pointing out that one can have affairs with people of both genders.

[karynnj]

36. Their best bet would be to seperate the wheat from the chaf

Many Clinton stories are completely fraudulent and disgusting, but there are stories that are not as easily dismissed.

In 1996, there were major improprieties in campaign financing. These are generally acknowledged by all Democrats to have happened. You would think given this that the Clinton campaign would feel they had to be cleaner than anyone - yet there have already been at least two embarrassing episodes in this campaign. (Hsu and the Chinatown contributions.) It is exasperated by the fact the Bill Clinton has secret donors of 7 figures contributions to his foundation and library. Though legal, it gives a very bad perception, especially when HRC and BC play with their answers on it. You know that the Republicans willl bundle this with BC work for Abu Dhabi and Hillary's cattle futures. What will really stink is if the Republicans get this to stick, and we can't get the really sleazy Guilliani seen as corrupt. Corruption IS an issue and it may be played against her.

Had it been known, I doubt that Kerry's D at Yale would have hurt, he is clearly a brilliant guy who was their debate champion. It might even have helped, in a weird way, with Kerry admitting that he got far too involved in extracurricular stuff including being on 4 varsity of Junior varsity teams, becoming an accomplished stunt pilot, being the top college debater in the country, and being active in the political union, heading it for his junior and senior years. When a man, who fluently speaks French and who has spoken it since he was a kid gets a "C" in French, it is NOT lack of ability.

Similarly, HRC failing the bar exam won't hurt - she is a brilliant woman and there is likely some reason she didn't prepare adequately - and it is likely similar to Kerry's situation.

[truedelphi]

52. You have to figure the fact tht the MSM media did not attempt a shoot down

Over the Hsu monies means that they really want her in as the candidate.

I'm not saying that I would have approved of it, but when you look at how they spin everything out of proportion, you have to wonder about it.

[creeksneakers2]

67. The one getting lucky with the press is Obama

For example, he's down 19 points nationally but the media is making him the new sensation whose momentum will carry him to victory.

[creeksneakers2]

66. Half that stuff was debunked years ago

And much of it deals with people who gave Clinton money, not what the Clintons did. Go through any candidates donor lists with a magnifying glass and you'll find embarrassments. So far as I know, there was nothing even illegal about the Chinatown donations. If a dishwasher wants to give $1000 he can.

There is a misconception at work here in DU. Candidates are seldom destroyed by some discovered terrible secret. That's the stuff of eager anticipation by rivals that is almost always disappointed, although there are always 10 "this is the one that will get him" stories to follow out there.

Candidates are destroyed by repetition of the same personal attack over and over. "I voted for it before I voted against it" or "Al Gore said he invented the Internet" weren't revelations. They were just BS attacks that the GOP repeated until they were believed.

That's how the GOP will go after our nominee. Hillary has already been through it and she's still standing. How the other candidates might fare is a mystery.

[truedelphi]

79. Look I agree with you. Totally. I know that any candidate

In the mad heat of an election, has to be accepting money left and right.

But what I mean is to look at what happened to John Kerry. By the time the Swift Boaters got finished, people were wondering if Kerry ever even went to Vietnam.

I am not saying I approve of that sort of thing. It just seems that they really didn't do anything snarky with the Hsu money situation and that surprised me.

[asjr]

2. It seems to me she just spoke

the truth. The Repubs will go after all of them. She may be the one to fight them hardest. I do not interpret it the way you do. I only hope whoever our nominee is he or she will really stick it to the Repubs.

[crikkett]

5. Same talking point as Sheehan.

She's not afraid of the GOP because they want her to win.

[leftynyc]

41. Yeah, I'm sure the pubs are

thrilled with the prospect of Hillary choosing the next 2 or 3 supreme court justices.

[bvar22]

47. They are much happier with Hillary .....

...picking the next few Pro Big Business/AntiLABOR Supremos than the picks that would come from Edwards or Kucinich.





"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[TomInTib]

3. So, what can you tell us about this little airport in Mena, ma'am?

You can just bet that the 'pubs have their hand on the sh*t-chute lever.

I think the Clinton Camp is running low on fuel and this is pretty much all they have left in the tank.

Damn, I hate to see it get to this. I was hoping the campaign(s) would travel a higher road.

[creeksneakers2]

69. Mena was investigated

the Clintons did nothing wrong. Just another RW lie designed to get the Clintons that failed.

[fenriswolf]

4. when she actually becomes a target

with her long years in the public spotlight they will have more munitions on HRC then any other candidate. how much you wanna bet were gonna hear about S&L scandals, real estate scams, possible assasination, "the affair"

[Occam Bandage]

76. We've already heard all that. That's spent ammunition.

[fenriswolf]

87. yeah and as we are seeing

the past comes back to haunt you again and again.

[geiger]

6. very interesting observation

and I am sure you are right.

She needs called on it, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Sheehan "gaffe" wasn't staged, to make her comments seem to be innocuous by comparison.

Too bad so many in our Party think it's okay to swiftboat now, just cause the Republicans do it and they're bad guys, so we should get to do it, too.

[Skidmore]

7. Hillary is not vettted.

And her files are kept with her husband's so we don't have the benefit of knowing her experience beyond what she or Bill says it is for those years in the WH.

[Occam Bandage]

75. You mean the Republicans were holding back from '92 to now?

That's some long-term strategy they've got there.

[napi21]

8. I think you're reading way too much into that.

Hillary is NOT my candidate of choice, BUT one of the things that scare voters in either party is what secretsw from history will the opposition find that we don't know about? I'm positive the supporters of Rudy & Huck are worrying about that very thing right now! That's one of the main reasons a relatively new candidate has sucfh a difficult time breaking into big time politics! Hell, I heard some callers on cspan the other day say a similar thing about Biden! BIDEN...the candidate with the longest political history! The caller said he's been in the Senate for 36 years! What votes did he make in all that time will the Pubs be able to tear him down with?

[Perky]

58. That's why Senators typically do not win the Presidency

My sense is thatthis is a "Change Election" however Obama has a much shorter record to shoot at, and while the GOP has more executive experience, they have no Foreign Policy experiencecredentials to speak of and that's where this election is going to play out far more than pesonality.Unfortunately, Hillary is not seen as a change agent.

[K Gardner]

9. The HRC "talking point" has gone out. You can see it right here on this board as well as in

Hillary's comments this morning. The new meme is: Hillary is not engaging in politics of personal destruction/attack... she's vetting the candidate for us ! Look for the word "Vetting" to start popping up all over the place.

[HeraldSquare212]

10. LOL. So why did she pick the wrong strategy in Iowa?

Per news reports, it seems her campaign picked the wrong strategy and was very slow to realize it was wrong. This is a campaigner we should put our faith in?

[Nailzberg]

11. Has she seen her unfavorables?

The people who don't like her, really don't like her. And most aren't even sure why, they just know they don't like her. I wouldn't say she's immune to the RW attack machine. They've always had her number.

[BootinUp]

12. good lord, what a bunch of whining. nt

[bvar22]

48. "Whining"...obsolete talking point.

You didn't get the memo from Team Hillary Headquaters.

Hillary, Inc. has retired "whining" and moved on to "vetting".
Come ON, Dude!
You're out of step.
Keep up or you're out.

[George II]

55. I think he was talking about the original post here.

[Boojatta]

13. The solution is to delay the nomination.

Don't give the GOP an opportunity to focus on one known nominee.

[rinsd]

29. !!!

:spray:

:rofl:

[redqueen]

14. Whether or not that's what she meant...

it doesn't matter what any of us can stomach... the Dem electorate gets to decide.

:pals:

[ellacott]

16. She sounds like she thinks she has something on Obama

Or she wants to give the impression that there might be something out there. This has the theme of something that was posted here this afternoon. I guess this is their new talking point. Vetting.

The problem is that the Republicans will attack whoever the nominee is. If he becomes the nominee he should have the backing of the entire party, including Hillary, to fight back. We all should have learned from the swiftboat attacks.

Is she saying that she would sit back and do nothing?

[Franc_Lee]

80. K&R...!

[Demobrat]

17. I'm not a Hillary fan

and I hope she's not the Dem nom. But I think she's right about this, backhanded slap at Obama notwithstanding. She's been investigated to within an inch of her life. The only way the R's will get anything new on her is to make it up.

[jenmito]

18. I agree. AND, who's to say she doesn't have secrets? She has yet to release her papers from Bill's

admin., which she so often talks about regarding her own ability to run the WH from day one.

[Jai4WKC08]

82. So when Hillary implies that Obama may have "secrets"

It's a smear. But for you to imply that the papers from Bill's administration may show that she has secrets, that's ok?

So tired of the double standard.

[SaveElmer]

19. She is absolutely correct...nt

[jenmito]

25. How can you say that? She said she has nothing to hide yet hasn't released all her papers from

Bill's admin.

[SaveElmer]

32. More Obama smear...

If you would take five minutes to look into the issue you would know she does not have control over those papers, they are controlled...by law...by the National Archives...who has to review them before they are released...and in fact the Clinton's have asked the Archives to speed up the process...

But don't let the facts get in the way of a good smear!

And oh...where are Obama's papers from his days as a part time states legislator?

[ClarkUSA]

20. Hillary = Mark Penn in a pantsuit.

Both are vile, smarmy individuals who represent politics as usual with a vengence.

[oasis]

22. I'll be the first in wishing you a fond "adios" after the primaries.

:hi:adios. In advance.

[BootinUp]

23. lol nt

[ClarkUSA]

33. I'll be here long after Hillary heads back to the Senate

You can go and suck on Mark Penn's toes after the primaries, though. Tell us how they taste, okay? Like Kool-Aide, I'll bet.

[oasis]

37. Why not take a little time off now to familiarize yourself with the DU Lounge.

They go for that kind of talk over there, so you'll fit right in.

[ClarkUSA]

86. I was responding to your petty attack with a bit of humor

But I should know by now that Hillaryworld has no sense of humor. Just look at Mark Penn during that Hardball interview... whew, what a slimeball!

[JackORoses]

42. will you be making an exit if sHillary comes up short?

it seems only fair.

[oasis]

46. No need for me to exit. I'm supporting the Dem nominee. (eom)

[oasis]

21. "The devil you know".

[AX10]

She's right.

You don't have to personally be fond of her, but she can win.
She has survived 15 years of the right wing hate machine.

[jgraz]

38. If by "survived" you mean "won two uncontested elections based on name recognition", then yeah.

[creeksneakers2]

74. Uncontested?

GOP money came from the four corners of the earth to derail her Senate run. Her first opponent was Rudy Giuliani, who fell behind and quit with an excuse about cancer. The second opponent wasn't as well known, but the GOP had all that money for attack ads.

[jgraz]

78. Hah! I bet you can't even remember the names of her opponents

Be honest. -- you had to use Wikipedia to look them up. I certainly did.

Those candidates vs a former first lady with almost unlimited funds? Excuse me if I'm not impressed with Hillary's electoral prowess.

[Occam Bandage]

81. I even remember Rick Lazio's JibJab rap.

"See-saw swingin' to the beats I'm bringin'
Lazio on the scene in a flash!
Former Gingrich lackey
GOP mack daddy
Gonna take Hilly out with the trash!
See when Rudy couldn't hack it
With his wife-kickin' racket
I was waitin' in the wings to shine,
Now I'm battlin' with Hilly
Bustin' rhymes extra chilly
Gonna take it to the finish line
She's mine!"

[Skip Intro]

24. oh brother, the Obama crowd has lost it - damn Hillary yet again for something she didn't say

and Hillary's camp is desperate?

[MiniMe]

26. If the repukes can't find a scandal they will make one up

Although they have been after Hillary for 16 years now, and they still haven't been able to find anything to stick.

[rAVES]

27. Here comes the hate machine!!!!

:sarcasm:

[Catherine Vincent]

30. I think you're reading into something that's wasn't there. nt

[ronnykmarshall]

31. and it just sinks lower and lower and lower

[Franc_Lee]

35. I couldn't stomach Hillary from the git-go, are you serious?!?

[Nimrod2005]

39. Sneaky sneaky little B*tch....nt

[Occam Bandage]

70. "little Bitch?"

...sigh

[annie1]

84. It's not sneaky, it's quite upfront.

[proudmoddemo]

43. She wants us to believe that she didn't approve the message

Yet she parrots it. The pathetic, vile tenor of the Hillary campaign can now be laid squarely on one person: Hillary Clinton, who did actually tell the truth when she said that this is "fun" for her.

On another note, I don't want yet another President that thinks 1984 is a guide to effective governance. I don't want another candidate that lies to me over and over and over again--so often that I'll believe their lies, and let them get away with anything--a war here, a racially biased remark there...

[oasis]

49. "racially biased remark"? says who?

[elizm]

44. You've got a strong stomach to have lasted this long. nt

[bonito]

45. It's a dog and pony show

[HuffleClaw]

50. wow is she naive n/t

[democrat2thecore]

51. She's been "vetted" all right

But has she been vindicated? Everything about Hillary's involvement in all those scandals will come right back. She was vetted - and found wanting. Vetted and vindicated would be one thing - but that's not what we're talking about.
Edit: I don't like these kind of attack threads, but I couldn't let this go without saying something. Hillary would make a good president, but far down the list on electability because of her involvement in too many scandals that are still cream at the top for the Republicans if she's the nominee.

[creeksneakers2]

77. She was investigated

Everything the Clintons did in their entire lives has been investigated. Millions of dollars were spent. Subpoenas were issued. Even people distantly associated with them were threatened with prison if they refused to lie about the Clintons.

Nothing was found but Bill getting a blow job and lying in a civil deposition about it. Nothing came out about Hillary. That's vindicated on everything else.

The majority of the public understands what was done to the Clintons and is angry about it. They'll curse the GOP if the GOP tries that stuff against Hillary again.

[styersc]

53. Lets just concede to the Republicans.

There is so much petty bickering in the Democratic Party (and on this forum) while the country is in a spin- lets just admit that we are not mature enough to reach beyond our own interests and prejudices.

[George II]

54. If you choose your candidate based on something like that....

...chances are you won't be voting next year.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

57. Bill could "blow" her out of the water with an indiscretion & it only has to be reported by M$M.

Real or imagined, the public will believe it and she will sink like a rock. Fact of the matter is the pukes will spin it that just the potential of it happening again if she were elected will badly undermine her bid. She's damaged goods and pukes will exploit it effectively.

[in_cog_ni_to]

59. Well, she has been through the repuke ringer! They have looked in every nook and cranny and came out

with NOTHING. She does have a point. Her life IS/has been an open book.

[Perky]

62. So until Obama goes through that same process he is not qualified????

[in_cog_ni_to]

64. NOPE! He's MORE THAN qualified to be prez!

I like Obama. He's just too moderate for my tastes, but if he's elected...he's got my vote. I think he's very charming. Hillary did make a good point about her open book life though.:) IMCPO, that doesn't make her More or Less qualified to be prez. All it means is the repukes will have to dig even deeper should she win.

[Occam Bandage]

71. Didn't say he wasn't qualified. Said he was a risk. That's true.

We have no idea what's in his background.

[THUNDER HANDS]

60. spoken from the campaign that researched her opponent's kindergarden history

I'm sure she knows things. But then again, she's more likely to attack with those things if she senses defeat.

[Occam Bandage]

72. I'm sure the Republicans will play nice, though.

I'm sure she knows things too. But she also knows that there's a limit as to how badly you can attempt to destroy another Democrat; the recent Shaheen fiasco is evidence.

[ileus]

61. remember: Hillary 50 states in 2008

[Perky]

63. What??????

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[ruggerson]

65. "No longer"?

lol

[Occam Bandage]

68. Do you believe that everything about Obama's past is known, including all details that might be used

to attack him?

[Onlooker]

73. Her point is valid

Most voters already know the baggage that comes with Hillary. It will be difficult for the right-wing attack machine to knock her down a few rungs. The same is probably true to some degree for Edwards. But, I guarantee that if Obama (who I'm marginally supporting) is the nominee, every little thing he's done (not even mistakes) will be introduced to the public in the worst possible way. They will spend zillions of dollars to do so. Let's remember how the Republicans managed to turn Kerry's service as a soldier into a negative. I think Hillary's point is valid, and I think she has the best chance of winning, but I don't want another Republican in the White House.

[annie1]

83. It's pretty straightforward and fair enough statement...

she's just saying 'know what's coming'. That's not bad.

[BenDavid]

85. Well my goodness, why does the truth HRC said spark so

much outrage from the Obama crowd? Folks, she is the most investigated woman in american history and if there is something in obama's past then it is best it comes out now.....