Obama and the "race card"

[IndianaJones]

The racism I see directed at the man, when a nominee is not even close to being chosen is, while disgusting, not surprising.

[Joe the Revelator]

1. More DU push polling from Team Hillary

They've learned from their man Penn.

[maddiejoan]

5. Oh look!

I was right.

The OP being accused of push-polling.

unbelievable!

[Joe the Revelator]

8. It is what she's doing...

and you're playing a role to. Good job.

[maddiejoan]

You're a complete Moran

This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say any comment about Obama is interpreted as an attack.

Way to prove my point for me.

Thanx

[Joe the Revelator]

14. It the exact same tactic used yesterday by Shaheen.

You can keep acting like its all over reaction by Obama supporters, but nobody's buying it Maddie.

[maddiejoan]

17. You repulse me.

You really repulse me.

[Joe the Revelator]

19. The feeling is more then mutual, kid.

nt

[maddiejoan]

22. anything else you'd like to accuse me of in this thread?

Because you are way off base.

[Joe the Revelator]

24. What have I accused you of?

Aside from not living in the real world and being a Hillary homer?

[maddiejoan]

32. You accused me of making a disingenous statement

as a method of some sort of 'push-polling'

My statement was heartfelt.

You don't f*cking know me.

How the f*ck do you dare make that kind of assumption?

For that matter how do you dare belittle my support of my candidate by saying I don't live in the real world?

Who the f*ck do you think you are?

[Joe the Revelator]

35. I stand by my assessment of you.

I'm just another faceless person who unfortunately has to interact with you on the internet. Reread your last post and tell me its not obnoxious.

[maddiejoan]

37. You don't have to interact with me at all.

In fact -- I'd vastly prefer you just put me on ignore.

[Joe the Revelator]

38. Maddie, YOU replyed to MY post.

I'm not seeking out conversation with you.

[maddiejoan]

40. Well you have one now

Your choice is to either continue or not.

You made an unfair accusation of the OP --which you then extended to include me.

And it is so typical of many of the Obama supporters on this site.

One can't even make a comment on your candidate --supportive or otherwise unless you have pledged to vote for him in the primary?

The OP made a statement that they were disappointed at some racism espoused on DU and how it is wrong, and you immediately come to the conclusion that this is 'push-polling'?

I call shenanigans.

[Joe the Revelator]

42. It was completely transparent as a hit post Maddie

I don't expect you, a person who has made it clear that they will never listen or give any credit to an Obama supporter, to admit to seeing that.

Lets play this game. Would you take NO exception if I started a thread entitled Hillary and the gender card, and then, without any supportive details or facts, regurgitated a RW talking point about how Hillary can't win because she's a woman? Lets also assume, for the sake of this hypothetical, that the day before I made this post about Hillary, my candidates campaign came out and did the same thing regarding some shady dealings in her pass. (When I say 'same thing" i mean the politically disgusting practice of mentioning something "innocently" to the media in an effort to test the waters of a new attack)

Seriously, you would have no problem with a thread like that?

[maddiejoan]

44. But this is not what the OP said

If you posted:

"The sexism I see directed at the woman, when a nominee is not even close to being chosen is, while disgusting, not surprising."

Then no --I'd not only have no problem with that , I'd have applauded you.


BTW I give credit to many Obama supporters. You just don't happen to be one of them

BeyondGeography seems to make his support of Obama quite clear without spilling over into bashing of Hillary supporters.

[Joe the Revelator]

47. Just to be clear, I'm not an Obama supporter.

I love all of our candidates, save for two. I'm working to make sure that Hillary and Dennis are the first to drop out.

[maddiejoan]

48. That figures

Hillary and Dennis are the only two I support.

[Joe the Revelator]

50. Which is funny, because they couldn't be farther apart.

[maddiejoan]

52. In my view

Hillary is to the left of Edwards and Obama if you look at actual life experience and records.

Edwards talks like a lefty -- but I don't buy it for a second. The flip is way too recent.

And Obama? His willingness to try and play nice nice with the Republicans is a huge turn off for me.
But he sunk himself in my eyes with McClurkin, and he just keeps looking worse all the time.

[Joe the Revelator]

53. Since we both seem to have dropped the hackery...

and our actually talking, how do you compensate your distaste for Obama/Mcclurkin and Hillary's ties to evangelicals who buy into the entire "ex-gay' concept?

Hillary turns me off at every level. She plays Rovian politics with her love of friendly crowds, her overly controlled message, and her inability to deal with dissent. She's grates my nerves with her arrogance. The killer for me on Hillary is the dynasty argument. This country needs fresh blood very badly. If we keep electing the same ideas, we're going to continue to grow stagnate as a nation.

With that said, if she some how pulls the miracle comeback, I will vote for her due to the stem cell issue alone.

[maddiejoan]

56. Well first

Hillary has a real long stance with the GLBT community, and she doesn't give the stage to evangelicals to preach their views. I've been to many GLBT rallys over the last 15 years and Hillary has spoken at many of them (even before her Senate run). I wish she was stronger on same-sex marriage, but I believe she will be stronger on it as President. DK's stance on same-sex marriage is what makes me send him money.

I actually see Obama as the one playing the Rovian games and see him as far more of a triangulator than Hillary. It's all very absurd as there is a sliver of difference in their respective policys.

The dynasty thing used to bother me, and frankly --I was an Obama supporter before the McClurkin nonsense --then I was undecided leaning towards Kucinich. Politically, I'm smack dab in the middle of DK and HRC.

What finally tipped me over to supporting Hillary was frankly, I found myself defending her a lot, and in defending learned way more about her than I did previously. I liked what I learned and was able to overcome my distaste over the "dynasty" appearance. I think an HRC Presidency would be a slightly to the left version of Bill's.

Having said all of this, there isn't a Democratic candidate in the final analysis that I wouldn't be proud as hell to vote for. Obama makes me a little nervous, as I don't think he's the messiah he's made out to be. But I don't actually believe in messiahs. I'm just scared he doesn't get how rough the GOP will be on a Democratic Presidency.

We probably disagree on all of this --but now you at least know my mind a little better.

[Joe the Revelator]

57. I do disagree but....

your perception all depends on where you sit. You and I are coming from different places. I respect your feelings for Hillary and I thank you for the sane conversation. I recant all the mean things I said about you :)

It's getting too late to continue on tonight, but again, thank you.

[maddiejoan]

59. right back 'atcha

:)

[suston96]

2. What racism?

[MaraJade]

58. I don't see No Racism. . .

And I am a black woman.. .

[maddiejoan]

3. You do realize as a Hillary supporter

Your comment will be interpreted as an attack on Obama.

That's how it rolls on DU these days.

(But I agree --it's disgusting, and I'm also pro-Hill)

[IndianaJones]

33. I'm on Team Hillary, and I'm a closet Obama supporter in the same thread. nt.

[emilyg]

4. Link please.

[ariesgem]

28. Here's an oldie but goodie...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3633819#3633940

"Obama alone could do it -- BUT his wife and kids are just too "dark" for the palate of mainstream, Oprah notwithstanding."

:eyes:

[IndianaJones]

31. those that want proof of racism do not believe it exists to begin with. nt.

[emilyg]

43. That's your opinion.

[journalist3072]

6. While I do think there are some racists out there who don't want to see him as POTUS

(i.e. the right-wing idiots making fun of his last name), I also think Obama has done his share of playing the race card.

For example, his comment on Tavis Smiley's radio program that "There's no doubt if we consolidate the Black vote, this would be a different race."

[IndianaJones]

9. the term "race card" is a construct of bigots. nt.

[journalist3072]

11. Whatever its origin, the fact is that Obama has played it

Another troubling comment he made while on the Tom Joyner show, is his comment that "this is a once in a lifetime opportunity." In other words, in all of his arrogance, he thinks that from now until eternity, he will be the only viable Black person to run for President...so if we don't take up this opportunity and elect him, we'll never get a Black President.

And let's not forget Tom Joyner's comment to Michelle Obama "What is up with Black women?" Meaning, there's something wrong with Black women who don't support Obama.

The Obama camp has done nothing but use places like the Tom Joyner Show, as an outlet to get those of us in Black America to engage in group think, and support him just because he's black. And as a Black person, I take offense to that.

[AX10]

16. I know of many people in the Indian community...

who absolutely despise Bobby Jindal. They would not support him just because he's the
same ethnic background as they are. It's absurd to vote strictly on race/religion/gender.

[AX10]

10. But that's ok, because he's the "chosen" one.

:eyes:

[journalist3072]

12. Exactly. You know, if Sen. Clinton went on some show, and said

"There's no doubt that if we consolidate the women's vote, this would be a different race"......people here on DU would hit the rafters.....the outrage would just be astounding.

[AX10]

13. Most at DU are the far left. They count for only a small...

amount of population.

[NMMNG]

30. Indeed he has, as have others on his behalf

Then they turn around and accuse anyone who doesn't support him of being racist, as if his race is the only reason someone might not approve of him.

Some people think that I'm automatically voting for Hillary because I'm female, but I'm not. And the notion that it's somehow sexist to not approve of Hillary is false. Likewise it's wrong to think that it's automatically racism when people choose not to support Obama.

[journalist3072]

60. Could not agree with you more. You are absolutely correct.

[AX10]

7. Since when have you been a Hillary supporter?

Or did you change your avitar to push more Obama propaganda?

[David Dunham]

15. It's the lingering racism in the US that will make it very hard for Obama in the general to win

[AX10]

18. Sadly true.

[Joe the Revelator]

20. Yeah I bet you're real broken up about it.

If he can win the Primaries, he can win the GE. Simple as that.

[AX10]

21. I am offended that you imply I am a racist.

Second, the Primary is not the GE. The GE is where you will face the Indies and GOP, en masse.

[Joe the Revelator]

23. And the indys and republicans who will not vote for Obama because of his race...

won't vote for Hillary because she's a woman, or Edwards, because he's a democrat.

Thems just the breaks.

[David Dunham]

25. That's incorrect. Hillary can win AK and MO. Obama can't due to racism there

[AX10]

26. True.

[Joe the Revelator]

27. Link or any proof what so ever?

Or is this just another of your patent "I'm going to post my opinion and not back it up with any facts" posts?

[David Dunham]

29. Surveyusa, for example, has polls showing HRC winning KY,FL,OH. BOH loses the all.

Obama loses all three states to Guiliani while Hillary wins them all.

[BeyondGeography]

34. Don't go making Hussein his last name now

The man is challenged enough with certain voters as it is.

[Joe the Revelator]

36. Well since I highly doubt that Guilliani is going to end up as nominee,

it just doesn't matter that much right now, does it?

Also you mentioned specific states in your orginal post. AK and MO. Nothing to back up your orginal charge I guess.

[David Dunham]

39. Name a single southern, border or Rocky Mountain state BHO can win.

The answer is none

[Joe the Revelator]

41. No, your opinion is none.

He can win SC. Hell, he's about the win it in the Primary

He can win VA.

He can GA.

In fact, I don't know of any southern state, aside from maybe MS, that he can't be competitive in. You have nothing to back up your claim that he can't be competitive in these states.

And come on Dave, you made the specific comment about MO and AK. Back that up, or stop talking without facts.

[David Dunham]

45. Hillary is leading over the Repubs in polls in AK and MO

Neither AK nor MO -- nor any other southern or border state -- has ever elected an African-American to statewide office at the federal or state level since Reconstruction (except for Wilder in VA for Gov. for one term). SC is about the most racist state in the country in the sense of whites against black candidates in general elections. That's why they loved Strom Thurmond.

[Joe the Revelator]

46. Yes, so lets never try to change history, if he's black lets just not even try

Some great logic here Dave.

[David Dunham]

49. Colin Powell could win nationally. The inexperienced BHO cannot.

The GOP will chew him up, BIG TIME. It's the combination of being regarded as inexperienced, liberal, and African-American that will kill BHO's chances in the general.

[Joe the Revelator]

51. Just to be clear, this is all your opinion...

While I'm sure that you're an expert on southern politics, presidental poltics, and political credentials, I'd wait for the facts to catch up if I were you.

[Little Star]

70. .

[reka]

55. How many southern states did Kerry win

The answer none and he still could have won if he had campaign
better in Missouri

[ellacott]

63. Those states have 6 and 11 electoral votes respectively

All states don't have to be won.

[Renew Deal]

66. And you're one of the lingering racists?

:shrug:

[zulchzulu]

69. It's the lingering stupidity of Hillary supporters that use this as an "issue"

The same people who would not vote for a black person certainly will not vote for a woman either. Add that they won't vote for someone who will be painted as an ambulance-chasing lawyer even if he's Southern.

Those people don't even vote anyway.

[reka]

54. T agree

While I expected the race card to be played by the Republican
in the general election, I was blind side by the Clinton camp.

[Little Star]

61. If Oprah didn't hang out the race card with

her MLK, etc. speech I don't know who ever did. It was blatant in your face! Where did Barak denounce that or even try to clarify it? It's to late now because his finger in the wind can surly feel which way the wind is blowing on that one! Even I was EXTREMELY insulted for all the whites who did help them fight their fight! Marching, underground Railroad, Equal Rights, etc. Divider by race is what those words clearly were. I want a president who cares about All Americans (except the rich, powerful and greedy). Yep I'm a divider also. It's a class war and the powerful-rich are winning. Time to ban together not divide by race like Oprah's (w/Barak's silent approval) did.

[ellacott]

62. She did that? Interesting n/t

[Little Star]

67. She sure did! And

in a very covert way. We are all not naive to not hear what we did, even Democrats. Just imagine what the repugs heard and then think about the general election.

[zulchzulu]

64. It's to be expected...in the same way some people don't like Hillary because she's a woman

Over the months doing grassroots work for Obama, I've heard it all from the usual suspects. It's to be expected. While not in the "Hillary camp", I've heard the same trash about Hillary just because she's a woman..not even anything about other issues.

America is ready for a black or a woman President. There will always be knuckledraggers in the crowd though. They usually don't vote anyway.

[Little Star]

68. Man, I hope you are Right! In the ........

general I doubt this will be forgotten, but I doubt it will.

[BenDavid]

65. Someone needs to get their facts straight. Michelle Obama

brought race into this campaign several weeks ago when she said, "the reason that her husband is lagging in the polls is the "fear of possibility" owned by those blacks who are holding out — scared flesh in their racial memory from being told too often that we are "not ready" to achieve." For Michelle Obama to claim that one day black America will "wake up and get it" and support her husband is to imply that any person of color who does not vote for Obama is somehow slumbering or stupid. That Obama need not earn the black vote, but rather our votes must be given out of racial fidelity.

There is something patronzing in Michelle Obama's assumption that its some sort of ingrained fear keeping the black community from backing her husband. What a low opinion of Africian-Americans she evidences and perhaps an inflated view of Barack himself.Does it not occur to her that perhaps these could be people who think independently and for themselves and are not still bound to a historical or community perception? What if those not coming out to support him simply don’t agree with his politics, or his social stands, or his views on Iraq, or any other issue that the next POTUS will be facing? Why doesn’t Michelle Obama give the African American community the benefit of the doubt instead of yet another negative assumption - but then that would entail having to admit her husband might not be the best candidate….

Ben David

[mckeown1128]

71. There not attacking him because he is black...

they are attacking him because he is ahead.

[DivorcingNeo]

72. Yep

Precisely. If he wasn't these other supporters wouldn't have a thing to say. Oh someone's voting for Hillary because she's a woman...fine. Oh someone's voting for Edwards and Biden because their safe white males...fine. Someone's voting for Barack because he's black...oh my gawd, dear lord nooooo!

He's ahead, now let the mud fly!