Is this the "Nader Underground?" -- A complaint and a proposal.

[LawDem]

Forgive me. But I don't want to talk about Nader anymore. I want to ignore him. What more is there to say? Virtually every respectable liberal leader said, "Ralph, please don't run!" He decided to run anyway. What's the point of beating this into the ground. We here at DU aren't going to make him change his mind.

By the same token, nothing anyone says here is going to convince those few people who insist on voting for Nader to change their minds. They saw (or at least heard about) what happened in 2000. If that didn't convince them of the danger of a Nader candidacy, no amount of bellyaching here will. It's the concept of triage. When you have limited resources, you need to place them where they will do the most good and you don't waste them on lost causes. Nader supporters are lost causes (the ones this year, not those who supported him in 2000). So I say to them, do as you please. As American citizens you have every right to vote for whomever you please, including Nader (just as you have the right to do many other damn fool things). May the Gods of "let the consequences be damned" political purity smile on you. But guess what? I'm an American citizen too. And that means that I don't have to waste any more of my time talking to you about this if I don't want to. And I don't want to. So it's goodbye to you for now. I don't intend to jump into any thread on this issue from now on (and I personally wish others would follow suit so that these endless Nader threads, this one included, could die and go to thread heaven).

I personally wish there was just one permanent Nader thread established, where everyone who wants to continue beating their heads against the wall about this could go, leaving the rest of us in peace in a Nader free zone.

[donco6]

1. I think we should just enforce the rules:

"Democratic Underground may not be used for political organizing activity by supporters of any political party other than the Democratic party. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic party candidate."

Kick 'em off.

[wellstone_democrat]

3. He's welcome to run---its America

I will always support the right of anyone to run for office or have their say, but I don't think he should be "run" here on Du by his fans any more than Bush* operatives should run the Chimp from DU.

Kick 'em off.

[bluedog]

6. Let them

get and donate to their own Nader forum....its only fair....

[mitchum]

9. I don't understand why the rule is not enforced.

He is an announced candidate for an opposition party. I also don't understand why we must wait for the Dem nominee to be confirmed.

[mot78]

2. We should either create a sub-forum of Nader threads or confine them to GD

instead of GD 2004.

[WilliamPitt]

4. It's a temporary flare-up

Kerry cheated on his wife, says Drudge! 5,000 threads.

Nader's gonna run! 5,000 threads.

It'll pass. In the meantime, discuss:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=383047

[59millionmorons]

15. Same ilk

What you have is the same ilk who were so happy about the possibility of a sex scandal taking down Kerry are now mostly the same ones rooting for Nader. Some are still upset and whinning because there guy didnt survive the primaries, including my man Clark. Sort of like my guy didnt win so I am taking my ball home and I hope the other team wins.

[Old and In the Way]

27. You know why.

Because the last person they want to see winning the nomination is the person clearly uniting the Party. Many (not all) do not have the best intentions of the Party in mind.

The sooner we purge these posters off the DU, the better.

[Shanty Oilish]

5. Can't Nader go in Politics and Campaigns forum?

I couldn't care less about Nader anymore. The Primary forum is supposed to be about the Dem primary.

[mitchum]

10. That is a very good and sensible suggestion

[Guava Jelly]

7. Well yes this is the official reselect bush board

see...Vote Bush / Nader for a brighter Past.
Thats what the pissed off duers want isnt it Four more bush years.
I am feeling sick

[spooky3]

8. Good post. Also, I'm not willing to grant them the moral high ground.

Completely aside from whether the "purists'" principles are in fact in some sense "better" than those of persons here who support other candidates, there is a sound ethical argument against supporting Nader and other third party candidates, for people with progressive values. Some ethicists argue that we are judged by the consequences of our action as well as the intent, particularly when these consequences are foreseeable. If the consequences of one's action is to enable * to continue in office, when one had an imperfect but far better alternative, then one bears partial responsibility for the negative consequences of his continuing. As I think most of us would agree that immoral actions will be perpetuated in a * 2nd term--because we have seen them in a first term, where presumably there is incentive to behave well enough to be voted into/appointed into a second term, these actions are foreseeable. Those who fail to do what they can to prevent them are partially responsible for the wrongdoing.

[fishnfla]

11. It'll pass

he aint going anywhere

[edzontar]

12. I just love the Nader threads.

They are quite funny and revealing from my perspective.

But I admit there are just too many of them.

This will almost certainly die down in a few days, when the shock and awe settle in.

Meanwhile, I'm enjoying the mass temper tantrum.

[Taeger]

13. Perhaps a Nader "Zone"

Create a separate area for Nader talk. Than fence it in and contain it like post Gulf War 2 Saddam Hussein.

Rule: ANY mention of Ralph Nader must be on the Ralph Nader forum.

;-)

[demgrrrll]

17. I agree. Start a separate section for Nader threads. Is there a way

those not interested could hide threads that are about Nader?
I would love that!

[Guava Jelly]

20. we could call it

free republic

[wellstone_democrat]

30. lol

roflmao

[Piperay]

14. nader is not a democrat, just like chimp isn't and

all either are interested in is defeating the Democratic nominee. Why the hell should any anti-Democratic candidate have a forum here for promoting the defeat of the Democratic nominee!?! :wtf:

[lovedems]

18. That is what I think. n/t

[POed_Ex_Repub]

19. Amen n/t

[Feanorcurufinwe]

24. Yes, the rules should be enforced n/t

[patricia92243]

16. Since Dean dropped out, it has been pretty boring. We got into the habit

of politics being interesting.

Now we will grab at anything to fight off that lackadaisical, ho-hum feeling.

[Frances]

21. I have not had a ho-hum day since the day the Supreme Court

selected Bush. I am losing my country every day Bush is in office.

I vote to enforce the rules that all posts be pro-Dem.

[DemBones DemBones]

31. Isn't that the truth?!!! I'll be glad when DU

starts booting people off for saying they're going to vote for Nader, vote Green, write in a candidate, or in any other way help the Bush* campaign.

DU was never intended to give non-Dems a place to argue against Dems. There are other forums where people can go for that.

[Lefty48197]

22. I think all threads should be REQUIRED to bash Nader

after all, he's the one thing standing between us and the WH right now. Bring it on, Ralph! You want a fight? You got one! No crying allowed after you get punched, though.

[Iverson]

25. Is that Maoist or is that evangelical?

Goobers or Raisinets?

[edzontar]

34. That is just silly. We can beat him without "bashing"

The DP has to learn to build coalitions.

I don't care about Nader, but we should try to lure as many of his voters as possible, right?

To do this, we should speak clearly on the issues that Nader will raise in his own interests.

Bashing in the case will get us nowhere.

[tedoll78]

23. I agree.

No amount of evidence, logic, intelligence, etc will convince Nader or his supporters of the realities of a winner-take-all, non-proportionate election system. I'm tired of talking about the Chimp's helper; he doesn't deserve it. And think about it.. a Nader forum could go right next to the Conservatives forum..

Separate note.. can we have a 'Top 10 Progressive Idiots' list one week?

[union_maid]

26. I can't seem to help myself

I have not gotten over 2000. Not any aspect of it, but most of all not the Nader part because it seemed betrayal to me. I really hate him and if I see someone saying something good about him anywhere I can't seem to help answering.

I'd welcome it if these threads disappeared. I suggest they go in the Bush, Conservatives and Conservatism forum. That's who'll be supporting his candidacy.

[jonnyblitz]

28. some of us who refuse to get hysterical over his run have no

plans on voting for him either. Just because we arent screeching for his head on a platter and think its the end of the fucking world like some of you banshees do doesnt mean we are for him. I would never vote for him EVER.

[LWolf]

29. I agree with this part.

I don't want to talk about him. I don't really care about him one way the other. I want to ignore him. Which is easier to do if you don't start threads about him. I've "ignored" most of the threads, and the next time I come back the front page is full again. So I'm off to ignore them again, except the Nader thread Skinner started, which is "unignorable."

[bluedog]

32. yes we can ignore

the threads..but still its the point that this is for support of the Democratic Party.....not the opposition party... the people who want to talk Nader.and support him have all the right to do so..but they ..should go to the Nader forum website and agree with yourselves....

[Snivi Yllom]

33. well, most of the threads seem to be attacking Nader

Which would indicate to me it is not Nader suporters starting them, no?

Don't start a Nader thread or don't read them.