Oprah - Here's My Concern

[Steely_Dan]

Those that would see this as "bashing" Obama will miss the point of this post. Even though I am supporting a different candidate (not in the top tier), I happen to like Obama. I think he would make a great VP in preparation for holding the highest office sometime in the future.

And if this has been touched on before, excuse the post.

I have always prided myself on being a well informed voter. I arrived at my particular candidate only after studying all of the contenders, their policies, voting records, leadership skills, etc, etc.

My question is...Will Oprah bring out informed or largely uninformed voters? In line with this question is the more general question: Is it better to bring out more voters even if they are not well informed? I'm not sure that I know the answer to that. I do know that the more people that vote, the better. Yet, I would want those voters to be as informed as possible concerning the choices they have.

Here's the way I see the Oprah factor...
I think that we could all agree that Oprah will bring out more voters. The question is, what kind of voters? I'm guessing here that a majority may not keep up on politics as we do here on the DU. They are basically coming out because they are Oprah fans and are inspired to participate. Of course, a vast majority of the uninformed that do vote will vote for Obama. I suppose that is the whole purpose of having Oprah endorse you.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this other than to say that I am concerned that these are votes that represent people who are not normally well informed. I would prefer that they educate themselves on the issues before voting and not just "blindly" vote for someone because a celebrity told them so. Yes, I know that not all of Oprah fans are uninformed. I'm sure that there are plenty that do understand the issues. I'm speaking more about the fan that has no real interest in politics and is just participating because they are fans of Oprah.

I would hope that all voters educate themselves before voting.

-P

[sandnsea]

1. What about the rest of the celebrities?

Where are your posts of concern about the kind of voters they brought out.

[Steely_Dan]

3. I Would Hope...

that you can apply this to any celebrity without me having to list all of them.

-P

[sandnsea]

9. Except the only one being listed is Oprah n/t

[Steely_Dan]

12. Okay...Please Accept my Apologies...

I would hope that you could apply this more universally. It's just that Oprah is in the DU news of late.

Okay...How about the Boss and Kerry. I wouldn't want anyone voting for Kerry just because they think Bruce Springstein (sp) is the greatest recording artist of all time.

Is that better?

-P

[sandnsea]

20. Were you concerned then?

No it isn't better. Funny that nobody was never concerned about this until now.

[H2O Man]

45. Maybe we could back-date

this concern, and re-instate the grandfather clause? We don't want unqualified people voting, do we?

[wake.up.america]

2. I tried to say the same thing on another thread. You did much better.

This would apply to ALL voters and ALL "celebrities".

I'm convinced the more people think for themselves, the less likelihood someone like Bush would win.

[Steely_Dan]

5. Yes...I agree

You put that very well. I honestly believe that if people would have educated themselves on Bush, he certainly wouldn't have had a second term.

-P

[flordehinojos]

10. i really think the voters did not give bush a second chance. poppy and the voting machines did.

[Steely_Dan]

11. Well, We can certainly argue that...

all day long. And I have no doubt that it played a role. However, I do believe that Bush was elected by the largely uninformed. Proof of this is that many voted against their best interest. If they were informed, they would not have voted for Bush.

-P

[blm]

43. If McAuliffe secured the election process after 2000's theft, Bush wouldn't have HAD

a second term stolen for him.

[liberalnurse]

4. The nation is over saturated with uninformed voters.

Jeepers, we have had *bush/cheney for two terms........ Votes accept responsibility for their own level of involvement.

[Steely_Dan]

7. Oh, I agree...

I suppose my next question would be...Shouldn't we be educating the electorate instead of encouraging more of the uninformed to come out?

I hope you don't think I'm bashing Obama. This could apply to any candidate or any celebrity.

-P

[flordehinojos]

13. emotions have become the rule of the day. thought process and thinking have been damned to the drain

by the bush crowd who do not want the people to think ... and by greedy politicians who have learned from the bush blue print for keeping people uninformed, emotionally on their side, and supportive of their greed or of their crimes. oprah may not realize that she is doing the same thing. and, as far as other celebrities go: what other celebrity goes around having a talk show daily, and giving out refrigerators, and whatever give-away oprah does give away ... granted. she is not giving away anything as she stumps for obama ... but people are already emotionally connected to that ... so, yay, oprah! yay, obama!

(and as for myself ... i do not groove with either oprah or obama)

[Steely_Dan]

14. I think you make my point...

albeit, more bluntly.

-P

[flordehinojos]

18. yes. i was not trying to finesse anything, just merely calling truth to power.

[Egnever]

26. Sounds more like sour grapes to me

[flordehinojos]

29. aren't you projecting? it seems to me you might be.

[earthlover]

21. Yes we should educate voters...Oprah did just that! And you complain?

Thousands of people went and saw a candidate give a speech that otherwise would not have. I dare say some will get involved, and want to learn more. Getting people involved in the political process is a good thing!

Somehow all you could say was that Oprah will bring more "uninformed" and of course the "uninformed" will vote for Obama.

You sure paint things with a broad brush. That is, for someone who is so "informed."

I am really getting tired of all this dissing of Oprah. She got off her but and got involved. With a Democratic candidate. I think she should be commended for it, not dissed. Even by fellow Democrats who support another candidate. Would that be asking too much of fellow Democrats? I guess so.

[liberalnurse]

27. When I encourage voters to exercise their rights

and get out and vote, it includes a question/answer moment and a lecture if they are interested. If they go to a rally, that is an education in itself. I believe it starts in the home, with the children, taking them to events, Washington, DC and their statehouse. The school system does not spend enough time on democracy.

[Dr Fate]

6. Maybe some of them will begin to inform themselves more...

...I hear you- but I'm more worried about people, informed or otherwise, who have abandoned the political process- not people who are willing to become involved in it...

[Steely_Dan]

8. I hear you...

and I agree that a certain percentage will inform themselves before voting. At least I would hope so.

-P

Let me add on edit...
Yes, people have been abandoning the process. I think this makes it all the more important that those who do participate educate themselves as much as possible.

-P

[Dr Fate]

16. The first thing you do is get them registered to vote. The learning process never stops.

First-time voters have to start somewhere.

I'm really not sure what the alternative is- are people supposed to wait until they have a certain degree of political knowledge before they start voting?

Most people dont get deep into politics until after they have already involved themsleves in the process- and usually the first step is registering & voting...If Obama really is inspiring this, then he should bottle whatever it is he's got...

[Steely_Dan]

17. Well, Dr. Fate....

That is the best answer I've heard yet. They do have to start somewhere and certainly there will be a percentage that will become educated on the issues. It is a starting point. And no, I would not want people to have to pass a Poli Sci class to vote. All people's votes are important regardless of their education or how well informed they are on the issues. It is just an observation that a celebrity can bring out a large number right away...of which most will not be informed. There really is no perfect answer...I'm sure that we would all like a well informed electorate.

-P

[1corona4u]

15. Well, I was just watching some clips from his weekend gigs,

and I sure hope people don't elect Obama just to make a myopic point. It could be catastrophic. But, people are, by and large selfish creatures, prefering to endulge their own self-satisfaction, rather than what's the prudent thing to do. Something more important is at stake here for Obama.

It's not the country, it's not the "baby boomers", it's not Iraq, it's not health care, or the economy, or anything else for that matter. It's all about HIM "winning". He is simply ego driven. It won't be much of a victory though, if he falls flat on his face, should he become the nominee.

That, is the way I see it anyway.

[Egnever]

23. "It could be catastrophic"

WTF?

Get over the candidate worship already. None of our field in office will be catastrophic. Including Joe cant keep his mouth shut Biden.

Geezus.

[NYCGirl]

28. Wow. A Biden supporter complaining about a candidate being "ego-driven."

[1corona4u]

32. There's a difference in someone who has earned the right to

be self confident about their abilities, and experience, as opposed to someone who THINKS they have those abilities, and experience.

At least that's how I see it. Joe Biden has earned the right to be self confident. Oh, and Joe Biden is in this race for ALL of us, including the rest of the world. Obama. as I see it, is not.

[NYCGirl]

34. Oh, that's it, eh? Well, you see a guy who's self-confident. I see a guy who can't

keep away from the camera light.

[1corona4u]

35. You mean as opposed to someone who uses a big celebrity...

to get attention?

Yeah, I see your point. NOT.

[NYCGirl]

36. Like Barbara Streisand, Sean Penn, Jackson Browne, etc.? NT

[1corona4u]

39. And Oprah...

seems you left her out...

[NYCGirl]

40. The thread is talking about Oprah. But we're talking about Joe Biden having

no celebrity endorsements. Basically, I have no problem with celebrity endorsements because they make people start paying attention to the campaign. If it brings a handful of people into the process and if they want to find out more, it's worth it.

[1corona4u]

42. Joe Biden doesn't need celebrity endorsements....

he stands on his own merit. He talks TO people, not AT them. He's just a one-on-one kind of guy.

I think it will work out very well for him in the end.

[Mythsaje]

19. I too think Obama would make a great VP candidate.

A little seasoning and he'd be ready for the job. First I think he really needs to grasp the nature of the enemy.

[earthlover]

22. If you don't think he is up for the job, your offering vP is a bit disingenuous!

Just another way of saying Obama is not ready yet. Which, of course, is the type of personal attack that the Hillary campaign has been using on Obama all along.

Just once I would like to hear Hillary supporters respect their opponent and say why they think their candidate is better!

Tell us why you think her vote for IWR was right.

Tell us why you think her vote for Kyl-Lieberman was right.

Tell us why it is a good idea for Hillary to wait until the end of her SECOND TERM to get health care plan

Tell us why you are proud of her getting more donations from the medical establishment than any other candidate, Republican or Democratic.

for starters....

But please cut this crap about Obama not being ready. That is a personal attack and Hillary herself said we shouldn't do that. Which, of course, was before her campaign went negative again

[mrreowwr_kittty]

31. Anyone who says Obama isn't experienced enough

Should not be supporting Clinton or Edwards either. Biden, Kucinich, Dodd, and Richardson have way more experience than the top 3 candidates.

[Mythsaje]

47. Not saying he isn't experienced enough...

Saying he still has too much trust in the "good nature" of his Republican counterparts.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

49. Oh I know you weren't. Just a comment about the 'experience' thing in general. nt

[MonkeyFunk]

24. I find your premise offensive

we don't have, nor should we have, qualifications to vote beyond being 18 years of age and a US citizen.

The notion that we don't want "those kind of people" to vote is rude and un-American.

[Egnever]

25. Agreed

[mrreowwr_kittty]

30. They had ways of dealing with the "wrong" kind of people voting in the past

Poll taxes, grandfather clauses, literacy tests, etc. Even today we have the GOP doing their darnedest to disenfranchise certain kinds of people. I know! Maybe they could "cage" the Oprah viewers! :sarcasm:

[Steely_Dan]

33. It's So Strange...

I thought I approached this with some sense of objectivity and sensitivity towards other people's choices. Prior to crashing, I responded to those who disagreed with me with respect, admitting where I might have either been misunderstood or even downright wrong. But apparently this kind of discussion can't be held here. It was merely an observation about how celebrities impact an election and the kind of voter, informed or uninformed, they bring out. Nothing more, nothing less.

I am amazed how the hypersensitivity of people can completely derail a discussion. I meant no malice towards anyone. I've learned a great lesson here. Do not, absolutely do not, bring up any subject that could even remotely be interpreted as critical (as in critical thinking). As for myself, I try to never let my passion override my reason. I guess that is not necessarily true for everyone. It wasn't my intent to offend anyone. I merely wanted to discuss.

-P

[Renew Deal]

37. There's 111,000 DUers out of over 200,000 million voters.

So I don't think there are that many people informed like DUers.

[Imagevision]

38. Well I like Hillary and Edwards but Obama is a more sensible choice for president

[mtnsnake]

41. The possible good that could come out of it is just the possibility that more people might register

to vote. That's my opinion.

Whether the people that Oprah brings out will really go home and be so inspired that it will have a profound new affect on them, politically wise, remains to be seen. Did they come out for the show and go home only satisfied they saw Oprah (or Oprah and Obaama) and then return to their normal lives as usual? Or did they come out for a show and end up being so motivated politically that it translates into a bunch of new people registering to vote who might not ever have registered to vote before? At this point we can only speculate about that. Good OP, though.

BTW, what happened in your thread happens all the time and it's pathetic. You've got people who sit back waiting to pounce on any new thread they disagree with by jumping into it immediately and trying to divert it from its original intentions. These people almost never have anything to offer themselves, they only try to ruin good threads like yours with misleading posts geared at stopping you before you can get started.

[H2O Man]

44. There used to be

"tests" to make sure that "uneducated" citizens were not allowed to vote. Your post is in that spirit.

[stubtoe]

46. I think you may be reading too much into this Oprah Factor.

I'll bet an extra large pizza with everything on it that most of the people who came to her events with Obama actually came out to see Oprah.

She's the star, after all.

Would as many people have come out in the cold to see BO?? or any other candidate?

[murbley40]

48. Is Oprah that well informed about the issues?

I'm not so sure.

[NMMNG]

50. I agree, not just about Oprah, but about all celeb endorsements

If people are stupid enough to vote for somebody because their favorite celebrity likes that person they deserve what they get (which can be very bad indeed). Unfortunately we often get stuck with what they voted for en mass--GWB for example.

Sadly there are those who will run out and buy any book that has the "Oprah's Book Club" seal on it (I know this, having worked in bookstores), or vote for whoever their favorite rock star sang for. Thinking for oneself seems to be a thing of the past for many people. :-(