It looks like we're going to have beat Bush alone

[jeter]

Friends,

I'm sick and tired of this Dean vs everyone else battle that erupts everytime ANYTHING is discussed.

It is apparent that many of them are still sore about their candidate losing. Fine. For three years now I have done everything I can about defeating Bush. Now that this goal is within reach, i'll be damned if I let people sore about losing ruin it for me.

So that's where we are. For better or for worse.

They laugh at us because our job was made more difficult with Ralph Nader entering the race. As if Bush winning a second term is funny.

But i'm tired of trying to convince them otherwise.

It's time to stand up and work on beating George W. Bush.

I would be saying this had Dean won the nomination, or Edwards or Sharpton or Kucinich.

I see no reason why they even bother coming here other than to rub our noses in the fact that WE ARE SCUM and THEY WERE RIGHT.

I don't have the energy to fight Bush supporters and Dean supporters at the same time.

So I say we put all disruptors on ignore and start working towards a new Democratic majority.

We'll just have to deal with Nader. We'll just have to deal with disgruntled supporters of vanquished candidates.

If after all that has happened, if people don't understand why defeating Bush is so important...AND SHOULD BE THE ONLY THING WE DISCUSS AND DEBATE now...then they never will.

I'm not interested in playing Kindergarden teacher.

[sandnsea]

1. Co-dependency

The more you try to fix somebody else, the more you prevent yourself from moving ahead. Break out of the insanity and move forward in getting a President into the White House. Anybody who gets in the way of that can take a big bite as far as I'm concerned. ANYBODY.

[w4rma]

34. Even if you have to tear down other Democrats to do it, eh? (n/t)

[Frances]

2. I agree

I gave money to Dean. I thank Dean for what he did. But he dropped out. Dean has said he will support the Dem nominee. I will too.

Now, how can I come to DU and find threads that are pro Dem? It seems that at least half the threads are anti Dem.

[Nashyra]

3. Thank you

I could not agree more. I would like to focus on what we need to be doing to getting Bush out of office. I've joined the Kerry campaign because my first choice is no longer in the running but I am proud to have supported him. I trusted Clark enough to want him for my President and respect him enough to value his input and endorsement of Kerry. For my part I will volunteer and donate time, effort and money to Kerry. Thanks for the post.

[jeter]

5. You know I started as a hard core Dean supporter

But his supporters just scare me to death. Because they don't seem to understand the seriousness of this election.

The reason I supported Dean in the beginning was because he was taking on Bush directly. Then the others picked up on that and began challenging him too. Now to be a Dean supporter is to be upset with 1) Democrats first; 2) Republicans second.

Well I understand what is at stake. And I am old enough to know better then to engage in tit-for-tat posts.

Sometimes this site pisses me off. I don't know why we can't stay focused on beating Bush.

Everything is conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy. I'm just tired of it. I understand why the left is left out of things. They just can't get their stuff together.

[NewHampster]

10. You want to bring people together and end with this shit

"I understand why the left is left out of things. They just can't get their stuff together."

First. Thats an assinine thing to say in your supposedly pull the troops together thread.

Second. Its that attitude of superiority that pisses us new comers off.

Third. If Deaniacs are left then Senator Kerry is a communist.

Fourth. Shove it

[jeter]

11. Or NewHampster

First: You can't pull people together who refuse to see what's at stake.

Second: If you don't like it - the Free Republic will take you.

Third: If Kerry is left wing, why are so many hostile to him.

Fourth: I'm sure you're approach will bring us together.

[NewHampster]

16. Jeter I am ABB yet threads like this piss me off

I will support the Democratic nominee. I always have.

I/we just hate the atitude that its all over. Support the nominee, as said in the first post.

There is not a nominee yet!

I agree Nader needs to take his ego to the retirement home but should John Edwards just pack up and go home?

Did you and all the loyalist party supporters do as you were told and give up last December?

Sorry but the name on the board is still Democraticunderground not NaziPropagandaboard

[library_max]

4. Or we could give them a little time.

Gott in Himmel, supporters of all the candidates have been there at one time or another. And Dean was special in many ways. He really did bring people into the discussion who hadn't been there before, from right and left and elsewhere. It wasn't just his stand on this or that issue. It was the kind and quality of the movement. I can understand why it's hard for many to let go.

And, credit where credit's due, Dean did point the direction that all the major candidates needed to go (take the fight to Bush), and he did it first of the major candidates.

I'm not known around here for being friendly to attacks on ABB. But this time we're not talking about chronic disruptors and impossible-to-please purists, by and large. How 'bout a little sympathy and understanding, instead of here's-your-hat-what's-your-hurry?

[jeter]

7. Dean's candidacy wasn't too unique

There is always a candidate like that.

In 2000 it was McCain.

In 1984 it was Hart.

It's not unusual. I have a feeling that some Dean supporters are:

- very young. Don't understand the way politics works.

- Old Nader/ultra left supporters who really don't care much for the Democratic Party to begin with.

- Republicans causing trouble.

[janx]

9. Well it is a bit difficult to get your hat handed to you

while simulataneously answering demands about what Dean should or shouldn't do at this point.

"Get the out of here!"

"No, wait! Save me! But--get out of here!"

And then there's always the



factor, which is seemingly neverending, while the other odd behaviors are going on.

People just can't seem to make up their minds.

[DemBones DemBones]

17. I'm afraid that some have become chronic

disruptors and impossible to please purists.

Dean never won a primary, had blown most of his money before NH, basically skipped the next round of seven primaries, so anyone who didn't realize he was in trouble was in denial.

I'm sure they were hurt, but unless this is their first campaign, they should have known that politics can be rough, with only one winner per race. They don't appreciate sympathy and they're talking third party and write-ins a good bit. At some point, they've got to choose between being hurt/ bitter and working for the Democratic nominee.

We don't have the luxury of allowing them a year to mourn.

[diamondsoul]

24. Agreed, DBDB,

But have you seen the vulture-like assaults on them since the announcement? It's so bad some are seeing vultures around every corner! Ok, we don't have a year, but ferchrissake at least give them a few days or a week!

[library_max]

26. Not a year.

But - say - another week or so?

[Kahuna]

6. Great post. Now let's all go out and get five new voters..

registered and pumped to kick out the bushistas.

[RafterMan]

8. If you don't have the energy to fight

Bush supporters and Nader/Dean supporters at the same time, you've already lost.

You should be battle-hardened by your time in the crucible of GD2004, instead you're spent and exhausted. After three days, you're ready to surrender the left.

Maybe the information you are not extracting from this experience is that ABB is a losing strategy. I believe you will find it so as much in the center as you have on the left. Maybe you should discuss and debate why John Kerry would make a DAMN FINE PRESIDENT rather than constantly appealing to the Bush bogeyman. Kerry has many strengths that can appeal across the spectrum, but I'd be hard-pressed to know that, given the virtual absence of pro-Kerry posts here recently.

The winning answer to the question "Why Kerry?" is not "George Bush".

[jeter]

12. ABB is a losing strategy?

Unity is a losing strategy?

Fragmentation and self-inflicted wounds will win us the election?

[RafterMan]

15. ABB is not creating unity

The evidence is all around you.

If your approach to the GE is going to be "You can't pull people together who refuse to see what's at stake", you will lose.

Period.

[jeter]

33. No ABB doesn;t ignore anyone

It just reflects the fact that there is a barbarian in the White House and our first goal should be getting rid of him. Stroking hurt feelings come second.

I accepted Dean's decline from the beginning.

I mean if purity is what you want - Dean was never pure either. No candidate is.

[Frances]

21. Yes it is important to have a candidate we can be proud of

and we have good candidates

BUT to those of us who are older and have been around a long time, Bush is a threat to our democracy, to our environment, to our economic security

The worst of the Democratic candidates would be better than Bush

If you don't get it about Bush, I am very sorry for you.

[RafterMan]

30. You did it again!

"But, but, but..Look at Bush!"

If you don't see why you're going to lose with that strategy, I am very sorry for you.

Consider the anti-ABBers the first test of the general election. They hate Bush. They should be easy prey. The Kerry camp is failing miserably at getting them on board.

I am not the person you have to convince.

[jeter]

35. Rafterman, look at your own sig line

Jesus, you're making the Republicans case aren't you?

That's the friggen problem.

If we still have to CONVINCE left-wing people to vote for a Democrat then Jesus.

The general election campaign won't be ABB. This is for Democrats.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

13. I've actually had more logical conversations with Republicans

on the damage Bush is doing to this country than with many so-called Democrats on this board.

You do have a point.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. I'm a Dean supporter

and frankly I don't know what in the world you are talking about. All through the time leading up to the primaries I talked positively about the other candidates, asked questions about their positions in a polite way, and if a flame war erupted I sat on my hands and didn't respond.

Dr. Dean has wisely said that his followers need to support the Democratic nominee. For months now I've said I would do this, no matter who the nominee is.

Personally, I get tired of people saying that the Dean supporters are trying to saboutage the election or something. The ones I know are pragmatic enough to realize that the important thing now is to get Bush out. If the Democratic Party needs mending (which I seriously think it does), that comes AFTER a Democrat is elected to the White House.

What I'm doing now is working towards electing a Democrat to my House district, which is currently in the hands of the Rethugs. I will continue to do this until the Democratic candidate is nominated, as I see no need to get into supporting any of the current candidates. I will read threads on Kerry, Edwards, Kucinich, and Sharpton to gather information about them so I can explain their positions to people I talk with. I might even ask a question, but it won't be to inflame-it will be so that I can get more information.

Once a nominee is in place, I will work for that nominee's election as hard as I can.

Please don't lump all Dean supporters together. I'm long past kindergarten.

[DemBones DemBones]

20. You need to speak up more because too many are

talking Nader, Green, or write-in for November AND lambasting John Kerry for the cardinal sin of beating Dean in the primaries.

Please speak up more! I'd love to hear more from Dean supporters who do plan to vote for the nominee, despite their disappointment that it's not likely to be Dean. Same with Clark supporters. I haven't given up supporting Kucinich, but I know I'll be voting for the party's nominee in November. It's too important not to.

[Kimber Scott]

32. From a Die Hard Clark Supporter

Sure I'm disappointed Clark didn't win, but I will vote for the Democratic Nominee in November. Period.

I haven't been around DU too much lately and I must say I am shocked at the different atomosphere here now than from before the time the first primary vote was cast. It was nice to come here and chit-chat with "like-minded" folks. Folks whose minds were on removing Bush from office. Now, it seems some people's minds are on brow-beating each other because their guy isn't winning. What happened here? This is definitely not the time to fall apart and start tearing each other down. We've had very good candidates running for the Democratic nomination and we still have some left. If you don't want to vote for any of them, don't. But, please, be careful about giving ammo to the other side. We are all still on the same side, aren't we?

[Frances]

22. As I said in an earlier post

I agree with you (I did give money to Dean)

Frankly, I don't think the disruptors are Dean supporters. I think they are either very young, naive posters or they are Bush supporters

[jeter]

36. I WAS A DEAN SUPPORTER

Everytime you point out the obvious that IT IS disgruntled Dean supporters causing most of the problems.

A non-angry Dean supporter will come out and say, "what are you talking about?"

I mean LOOK AT THE FRIGGEN BOARDS MAN.

Disproportionally it is Dean supporters that have not accepted the results.

Not all. Not you. Not me. But those gloating over Nader are Dean supporters - arguing had Dean been in the race, this wouldn't be happening.

Those gloating over Bush's 144 million dollars are saying - see, had Dean been the nominee he would match him (a claim i'm still not too sure about).

Why can't we call it like it is.

[Democat]

18. Some (look I said "some") Dean supporters want Bush to win

It's the only thing that will validate their support of Dean.

If Kerry wins, it will mean the Democratic voters were right and they were wrong.

This is not the case with the majority of Dean supporters, but there are a few here who actually want Bush to win.

[quaker bill]

23. No Dean supporter wants Bush to win.

This is why they worked for Dean rather than Bush*.

However some Dean supporters see that it is more likely that Bush* will win now. Nader notwithstanding.

I will continue to work for the success of the democratic party but I feel that our chances of retaking the Whitehouse are substantially diminished by the potential nominees.

So shoot me, purge me, whatever you like. I will remain unconvinced.

[Nicholas_J]

19. The Democrats

Won the largest popular vote differntial in history in 2000 with Nader in the mix. Kerry is polling to beat Bush in more of the large electoral vote states than Gore did in 2000. I beleive Nader will be even less of a factor in 2004 than in 2000, as the Democratic base is more highly focused on getting Bush out in 2004 than they were on keeping him from getting in in 2000.

[bushwakker]

25. Tired of coddling the Deans and the Greens

Some of the Dean backers act is if they are the only ones to passionately back a losing candidate. Many have nothing but contempt for not only Edwards and Kerry but their respective supporters too. Theirr arrogance is palplable. I used to try to "kid gloves" these posters but it really is to no avail. Nothing that is said here will persuade anyone in either direction. If there are liberals and progressives out there who see no difference between the parties at this point then they are hopeless.

[dorktv]

27. Here is what I think about Dean supporters not wanting

to support ABB right now:
Dean dropped out on 2/18, it is 2/22. That is barely five days. We have yet to have even a full week of grieving for our loss. Emotions are still very high. Give us a few weeks.
One of the nicest things a Clark supporter said to me was "take time to grieve, I understand." You could wait instead of trying to force the issue. It is still 9 months to November.

[jeter]

37. I'm not talking about full fledged support

I'm talking about the gloating and the threats. I mean sure Dean withdrew on Feb 18, but the writing has been on the wall for almost a month.

Second, it doesn't excuse their ENDLESS ATTACKS on our probable nominee.

You know the guy who will be facing Bush in the fall.

I can understand being upset. I can understand explaining why you were cheated a little. I can understand arguing your candidate is better.

But attacking the guy who will face off Bush - with no possibility of having those attacks help your own candidate, only helps Bush. Period.

That's inexcusable.

[spooky3]

28. I can't entirely agree until the primaries are over.

(with regard to defeating Bush as the only thing to discuss right now).

[Nashyra]

29. thanks dorktv

that needed to be repeated. Dean has inspired many by his passion and I for one believe that Dean and Clark have changed politics as usual for many years to come. It does take a bit of time, it is hard, it is disappointing and it is very sad, but something will come up to get you inspired again to continue with Deans fight, mine came in the way of several e-mails that Clark wrote to his supporters. Good luck and thanks for being involved period. I met alot of Dean, Kerry, and Edwards supporters working at the polling places in NH and we all got along great, we there for one reason, get rid of Bush. When Clark came by at the poll closing time he brought hot chocolate for all the workers of all the candidates and they were all glad to meet and talk with him and have their picture taken with him. It was a great thing to see Democrats working for Democrats.

[edzontar]

31. Why are you so angry?

The primaries aren't over yet.