So let me get this straight... (Nader)

[ogminlo]

Nader was the villian in 2000 for his legitimate (and tiny) participation in our democratic process, and the real problem of GOP election fraud (ie: 50,000 Dems purged from the Florida voter rolls for having names that rhymed with convicted felons in Utah) isn't more deserving of our ire?

Get real people, of the many factors that put Bush in the White House, Nader was the least diabolical.

[AngryYoungMan]

1. So what?

It was still a deciding factor. I'm sick of Naderites and their twisted logic.

Let's go through this point by point:

1) Florida was contested.

2) The recount drama dragged on for a month. Why? Because Florida (due to Republican dirty tricks) was a statistical dead heat.

3) Both parties KNEW THIS WAS COMING and privately strategized Florida early as a battleground.

4) Nader presumably also knew the stats. Had he withdrawn EVEN IN LATE OCTOBER and thrown his support behind Gore, Gore would have won Florida.

5) Therefore, Nader WILLINGLY GAVE FLORIDA and THE ELECTION to Bush.

If I leave the stove on and my pets die, should I blame their respiratory systems? Or myself?

You Naderites can't think your way out of a paper bag.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

9. It was a contributing factor

and we don't need more of a fight than we already have.

[JasonDeter]

2. Nader is a pathetic idiot

because he saw no difference between Gore and bush*. Only a complete moronic asshole could say that with a straight face EVEN IN THE MIDST OF THE 2000 ELECTION PROCESS. In my order of rankings at the bottom its bin laden then Nader. Nader is responsible for more American deaths than bin laden so far. If Nader hadn't gotten involved in the 2000 process we wouldn't be in Iraq now and 540+ soldiers would be alive and over 3000 wouldn't be wounded.

[fearnobush]

3. ABBXN

Anybody But Bush Except Nader.

[lcordero]

4. It's easier to blame him than to fix the problems that a

lot of Democrats faced(purged voter rolls, butterfly ballots, ballots "lost" in the middle of the night).
People WANT to blame Nader and the Green Party because they don't want to do anything for the voters that were disenfranchised in the South.
It is CHEAPER to make Nader into a villian than to fix the real problems.

[ogminlo]

5. My point exactly.

[AngryYoungMan]

8. Another bad point.

We're not PICKING AND CHOOSING. We're doing both things.

The voter rolls etc. were evils perpetrated by Republicans. Nader is supposed to be one of the good guys; it makes him even more vile.

He is a traitor. Again, you Naderites can't think your way out of a paper bag.

[diplomats]

13. Exactly

Well put.

[diplomats]

10. Well, if Gore had gotten in instead of Bush

maybe some progress could've been made on the issues Nader claims he cares about. But that didn't happen, did it? Nader is as bad as Bush, never accepting responsibility for the consequences of his actions. Why do you think many of his 2000 supporters have abandoned him?

[AngryYoungMan]

11. Your point's even stupider than I thought at first.

I'm blaming Nader because it's "easier?"

I have to watch my step because I'm about to get uncivil. I have no respect whatsoever for the argument you're making.

I'm blaming Nader because he THREW THE ELECTION. I don't care how many "factors" were involved. He was the preventable, needless one, from OUR SIDE.

[jeter]

6. Nader apologists still don't seem to get it

Of course there were several factors - including fraud. However, why must we make it harder on ourselves?

Why create any advantages for Bush?

[Zynx]

7. Nader is just as diabolical as the rest of them.

This was all for his ego. Sure it was legal and "legitamate", but extremely damaging to the causes he supposedly champions. What a fucker.

[Scott Lee]

12. Dean would have made Nader a non issue. But....

the DLC and the establishment grumps had other plans....

[JHBowden]

15. Dean is much more conservative than Kerry.

Don't let Nader and the Republicans play with your disappointment.

[diplomats]

16. No, the VOTERS had other plans

Another mindless, pro-Nader excuse - "Well, if so-and-so had been the nominee, Nader wouldn't be running." Bullshit. I'm supposed to let a guy who's already pissed me off by hindering Gore in 2000 choose my party's nominee? The man's not even a Dem. Where does he get off? His messianic complex is on a par with Bush's.

[rpf113]

14. These Nader apologists

are either wackos, or are coming from another website... (I think we know which one.)

[amber dog democrat]

17. No support for Nader

in ANY way shape or form. I am convinced that his meddling in the presidential election contributed to Bushe's being appointed to the presidency by the SCOTUS.

It would not have happened if Nader had stayed out. He adds nothing of value to the dabate, but he can screw things up.

[library_max]

18. Not the point.

You're miles off base on the voter purge, by the way. It was BS, but it wasn't nearly as unjustifiable as you make it sound. It was well within the limits to be safe from legal challenge after the fact.

But all the shenanigans you refer to - Bush v. Gore, the purge, Kathy Harris's creative approach to her job as election czar, the DeLay goon squad, etc., have one thing in common. They were perpetrated by people who wanted to see Bush in the White House. No point in hollering at them that that's what they accomplished - they know it, and it makes them happy.

But the argument is that Nader and his supporters didn't want to see Bush in the White House. Unlike all those other bastards, they made a mistake. That's why it's worth pointing out, so they don't make the same mistake again with the same result.

"Diabolical" isn't the point. Without the Nader campaign pulling progressive voters away from Gore in Florida, Gore would have won Florida by an unstealable margin, and all the rest of the chicanery would have been for naught.

If those who made the mistake would just admit that it was a mistake, we could say okay and move on. Or, contrariwise, they could just admit that they didn't make a mistake, that they wanted the Republicans in charge of the country, and then we could thank them and boot them the hell out of DU as Republican disruptors. But all this trying to change the subject and point blame elsewhere is useless, beside the point, and a waste of time.