What IS It About Hillary

[SoFlaJet]

that drives a wedge between so many people? Either it's dems vs repubs or dems vs dems why is she such a divisive candidate? Look, I don't support her and whenever I make any comments here I'm always accused by her people of either being stupid or a women hater or just a "hater" in general. It makes this lifelong democrat dislike her more than any I've ever had the chance to vote for. No other candidate's backers get so defensive or downright nasty as her backers do to those that don't support her. Just wait a few minutes-you'll see what I mean...

[eleny]

1. her husband's penis

[BeyondGeography]

2. Which Hillary?

[Progress And Change]

6. duff

[Nedsdag]

55. Swank.

[iconocrastic]

97. Because she's a selfish, nasty small-minded person who craves power and has no scruples

What's so hard to understand about that?

She also imagines many things about herself that are not true.

Those who like her either ...

1) Agree with her on enough points that they can't see her negativism
2) Live for the Bill Clinton glory days
3) Are weak-willed and are therefore attracted to someone they believe is strong; but since they don't know what strength is, they go for the counterfeit rather than the true.
4) Insert your own here. I'm sure there are a multitude of opinions out there. Go ahead, list them. No need for me to hog the glory.

[ClarkUSA]

99. That's about right.

Well-done. :thumbsup:

[creeksneakers2]

103. Is this what the OP predicted

Are you a Clinton supporter?

"No other candidate's backers get so defensive or downright nasty as her backers do to those that don't support her. Just wait a few minutes-you'll see what I mean..."

[patrice]

3. More than a few are folks who are trying to do her harm, by saying they

support her and then behaving badly.

[babylonsister]

8. You think?

That honestly never occurred to me.

[Cha]

49. Hmmm...that's just

wicked. Fortunately, hillary's had 7 years to behave with principle and I've yet to see it..so I don't need any "supporters" to turn me off hillary..

[Kahuna]

90. Amen Ms. Zidzi...

We were on opposite teams in 2004. But you practically share my every opinion this cycle. It's funny how some of my team mates in 2004 are acting like little children this cycle. Just goes to show that we shouldn't put too much stock into how people behave when they're wrapped up in chosing political sides.

:yourock:

[Cha]

133. Funny ol World, eh?

I remember your name, "Kuhuna", and ya didn't like Dean and I guess I better leave it at that! :)

[Maven]

4. Whom do you support?

[sniffa]

5. irrational hatred

based on whether you're a misogynistic male or a traditional female.

those are the only possible reasons.

[SoFlaJet]

14. you don't think it could possibly

have anything to do with the way she votes? Oh, I guess you never considered that one right? I really resent being told by people that I'm somehow anti-women because I don't support their candidate-I mean that REALLY pisses me off. I love and respect women-just not that one so much...good try though

[sniffa]

16. oh, but you're just an Obama supporter

(psst: i'm mocking a certain segment of Hillary Land) ;)

[October]

24. Oh, did she vote "present"? /nt

[paulk]

26. how does she vote?

compare and contrast her voting record with the rest of the serious Dem candidates and you'll find very little difference.

[SoFlaJet]

29. Two Words....

Kyl-Lieberman

[paulk]

44. one vote?

ok....

[Kahuna]

91. A big one though. Just like the IWR was a big one too. Issues

surrounding war matter to me a great deal. PEOPLE DIE! Their lands are destroyed. And for what? Political posturing. :puke:

[paulk]

134. saying that the IWR was a vote for war absolves Bush of

blame.

It was not a vote for war. Bush violated the terms of the resolution, he deserves the sole blame for the Iraq fiasco.

The Iran vote was not a vote for war either.

[Kucinich4America]

51. In other words, she sucks ass

she just doesn't suck any more ass than other DLC candidates, right?

Sorry, that's not good enough. It's time to elect a DEMOCRAT.

[paulk]

76. "serious candidates"

eom

[LeFleur1]

104. They aren't going to do that

They'd have to deal in facts if they did that and they don't know how to do that.

[L0oniX]

70. Thanks for your diagnosis Dr. Psyclopse. I feel much better now. Here's your payment.

:sarcasm:

[peacebird]

7. I don't know, I just hope she doesn't manage to get the nomination.

While there is a chance she would be better than the Repug nominee, we have other much better and less divisive choices.

[Hydra]

9. I like Hillary as a person

but I've had more than enough of the "business is good for the people" and The DLC is the only Dem way that works!"

Not that it matters. The Corps hold our top tiers, so I really don't get a choice here. I'll vote for Her simply so I can laugh at all the people who said she'll be our savior.

What can I say- watching faith shatter amuses me.

[Bullet1987]

10. I think the Clinton supporters are mostly to blame

for the outbursts since they're the ones mostly involved. I think it's also that Clinton and her supporters have for so long been used to being on top of the campaign season and really untouchable...that they're outbursts are a reflection of their current frustration. The MSM was damn near ready to call Clinton the winner and subtely did on numerous occasions talking about who she was going to face in the GE as if it was a pre-gone conclusion that she was going to win the primary. Her falling over the past month I think has more to do with undecideds making a choice (not for her) and people in general getting tired of being told who to vote for since the beginning of the campaign season.

But the Clinton supporters have this knee-jerk opinion about mostly Obama and to a lesser extent Edwards. I just wonder if they'll support him if Clinton losses.

[journalist3072]

13. Your statement has no factual basis whatsoever....It's just pure garbage and hatred on your part

Hillary Clinton came onto the national stage in 1992, and that's when the hatred of her started- when her husband, not she, was the candidate.

You're just delusional.

[Bullet1987]

21. Umm...no

I was addressing DU and her supporters. Not when she came onto the national scene. Please don't take my words out of context.

[Nedsdag]

58. journalist3072 has me on ignore but I'll let everyone else read this

journalist3072, it's people such as yourself that pushed me into the Obama camp.

I kept quiet for a while; however, after reading the smug, sarcastic, angry, obnoxious, entitled vitriol aimed at Obama, I went firmly into his camp.

If Hillary is the nominee, I haven't decided whether I would vote for her because of her supporters.

[L0oniX]

72. Thanks for the warning. journalist3072 is now added to my ignore list.

Have a nice day.

[journalist3072]

81. Grow up.

[creeksneakers2]

107. Is this what the OP predicted?

Are you a Hillary supporter?

"No other candidate's backers get so defensive or downright nasty as her backers do to those that don't support her. Just wait a few minutes-you'll see what I mean..."

[journalist3072]

11. I think, in particular, women are jealous of her

When Hillary Clinton came onto the national scene, we saw a woman who seemed to embody a generational struggle for many women out there: work or family?

And along comes Hillary Clinton, who somehow managed to do both. She's obviously been an outstanding Mom to Chelsea, and yet, she's also made no bones about having her own interests, identity and accomplishments outside those of her husband.

I think to many women, Hillary seemed to find that delicate balance; and so many other women who had not found that balance, resented her.

That's why people say she's so divisive....because she represents a generational change.

[peacebird]

15. wow. Now THAT is a "unique" view. We object to HRC because she can be mom and professional and we

poor lesser creatures are overcome with jealousy...
:eyes:

Project much?

[journalist3072]

19. I'm saying I believe that was the "rationale" (if you could call it that) for much of the hatred

of her, when she came onto the scene in 1992. That is, I believe, the root of much of the hatred of her.

She didn't cow down under her husband, and pretend not to have a brain, as so many women were taught to do.

She represented generational change.

[saracat]

105. She doesn't "cow", yet she followed Bill to Arkansas rather than pursue her career in DC?

And apparently has accepted the insult of serial adultery for years? I guess some have a different definition of "self respect".That is not my problem with her though, I suspect it is a problem some women may have.I just do not like her votes and her sense of entitlement.

[eridani]

106. That's why wingnuts hate her

Lefties who disapprove of her don't like her campaign donors, her votes on critical issues or her chief strategist.

[creeksneakers2]

108. Is this what the OP predicted?

Are you a Hillary supporter?

"No other candidate's backers get so defensive or downright nasty as her backers do to those that don't support her. Just wait a few minutes-you'll see what I mean..."

[sniffa]

17. Women want to be her, men want to be with her

What's not to be jealous of?

[journalist3072]

20. Exactly! eom

[sniffa]

27. ....

:rofl:

[Nedsdag]

59. BURN!!!!!!!!!!

:spank:

[MrMickeysMom]

31. Man, is THAT delusional!

No woman I know, nor do I want to be her. No men I know would want to be with her.

You must know a shit load of men and women, or you're dreaming (perhaps fantasizing? ... not that there's anything wrong with THAT)

[sniffa]

32. you're just jealous

[MrMickeysMom]

38. Oh, yeah... that must be it...

snark ..

I couldn't possibly weigh possibilities here, now could I?

[L0oniX]

73. Men want to be with her? ...eeewwwwwww barf

[sniffa]

75. you're just jealous

[sandnsea]

35. She rode her husband's coat tails

while the rest of us did it on our own. That's what real women don't like about Hillary. Besides her politics and her complete lack of ethics that is.

[journalist3072]

54. That's complete B.S. on your part, and you know it.

Do you just make this stuff up as you go along?

Here are the facts.

Hillary Clinton wasn't selected by her classmates to give the commencement address at Yale, because of her relationship with Bill Clinton.

Hillary Clinton wasn't asked to serve on the impeachment committee during the proceedings against Richard Nixon, b/c of her relationship with Bill Clinton.

Hillary Clinton didn't work for Marian Wright Edeleman at the Children's Defense Fund, b/c of her relationship with Bill Clinton.

Hillary Clinton didn't wasn't the first female to make partner at the Rose Law Firm, because of her relationship with Bill Clinton.

In fact, there were people who thought she shouldn't marry Bill Clinton- because they knew what an accomplished women she was in her own right, and felt as though she might give up some of her own dreams, just to help him fulfill his.

So your post is not factual. It's just pure B.S.

Next time, you might want to research before you go just making stuff up as you go along.

[Nedsdag]

61. journalist3072 has me on ignore but I'll let everyone else read this

But apparently she didn't do research on her OWN candidate.

Hillary was ask to speak to her WELLESLEY graduation class, not Yale.

She doesn't even know the facts.

[mtnsnake]

78. Journalist3072 kicks ass so you're lucky she has you on ignore. It just saved you another ass-kickin

[Nedsdag]

89. I can handle journalist3072. She doesn't scare me.

I eat heifers like her for breakfast. She's nothing.

[sandnsea]

83. She started out on her own

and then just let her husband's name carry her from there. You don't think making partner had anything to do with being the governor's wife? Yeah, okay, right.

[creeksneakers2]

110. Then how come

all the other politicians' wives weren't elected to the Senate? She must have done more than be a politician's wife.

[sandnsea]

115. She was a President's wife - duh n/t

[creeksneakers2]

117. So was Nancy Reagan

and all the rest.

Hillary got fame from Bill but she had to make it on her own from there. She's tested constantly and much harder than anybody else.

Could Laura Bush handle it? How about Barbara Bush?

[sandnsea]

119. The other's didn't have the ambition n/t

[Blue_In_AK]

48. Oh, please....

A lot of us have had kids, a good job, and our own outside interests beyond our husband. This is a weak argument.

[journalist3072]

64. Actually, no it's not...

You need to pick up a copy of Judith Warner's book "Hillary Clinton: The Inside Story" that was published shortly after Bill Clinton won the 1992 campaign.

Specifically, turn to Page 6-7:

This past year, she faced belittlement in the press, partisan barbs about her integrity, outright hatred directed at her, the candidate's wife, by the Republicans at the convention...."What I represent is generational change," she told the public on the Today show. "It's not about me."

That is true. Hillary Clinton, in the last election year, became a sort of mirror reflecting America's anxieties about the evolution of gender relations, two-salary households, and marriage itself....The public's fascination with Hillary was a fascination with itself. When she was hated, and when she was loved, American society was racked by what it loves and hates about itself.

[Blue_In_AK]

65. Whatever...

I am Hillary's generation. In fact, I think we were born the same year. The above quote sounds like psychobabble.

ed. to say that I am a year and a month older than Hillary.

[journalist3072]

66. Yawn........

[Blue_In_AK]

68. Exactly. n/t

[Kahuna]

92. So now women are jealous of her? I think they're disappointed in her...

She had an opportunity to show leadership and she didn't. Why would women be jealous of that? Ya'll like to call her strong and smart. What's so smart about following the neocons instead of leading them? I just don't get it. It must be me. :crazy:

[Triana]

118. You can think what you want "journalist3072" but...

...you CAN NOT tell others what THEY think because you don't know.

SO...I'll tell YOU what I think of Hillary - YOU will not tell ME. Firstly, I'm a woman. Secondly, I admire Hillary as a woman for many reasons.

THIRDLY, what I DO NOT LIKE about Hillary as a Presidential candidate is her policies (NAFTA?! No thanks...for ONE example) and the way she votes and her wishy-washiness -- and her propensity to turn her rhetoric/talk whatever way the political wind blows (no integrity) - and that she's a DLCer.

NOW, Mr./Ms. Know-it-all "mindreader", IF HILLARY WERE A MAN and was the same way I'd NOT like her (him) as a political candidate FOR THE SAME REASONs.

So - DO NOT tell ME what I think as a woman. I'LL TELL YOU. And THAT is what I think of HILLARY and that's why.

So your 'women are jealous of Hillary' crap is just that. Crap. You didn't ask ME. In fact you have undoubtedly NOT ASKED ONE SINGLE woman here why they don't like Hillary as a Presidential candidate, have you?

You just decided you'd TELL THEM, instead. Eh?

Well, excuse US but we can speak for OURSELVES thankyouverymuch. Not that you ever ASKED.

[SoFlaJet]

132. If Hillary Were A Man

she'd be Joe Lieberman-never take any gutsy position always be very careful because there has always been that "well what if I decide to run for president someday-how will THIS vote look in retrospect?".Oh yea, and NEVER under any circumstances apologize for any mistakes made in that pursuit-you know like voting for the Iraq war and again, that Kyl-Lieberman resolution.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. I'm from Arkansas, and I don't like her

because, as First Lady of this state, she was rude to friends of mine when it would have been just as easy to be polite. That may seem petty, but to my mind that is a judge of character and what a person deems important. Didn't like her then, don't like her now. I will say that when I've given my reasons for my dislike, no one here, even her supporters, have dissed me.

[SoFlaJet]

18. I have

been called a hater, a women-hater and a misogynistic male whatever the fuck THAT means-and this is just in the past few days

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

40. I'm sorry people have to stoop to calling names

That's too bad.

[SoFlaJet]

43. OK so what IS

a misogynistic male mean anyway (I'm kind of stoopid)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

46. Misognists are women haters

So I guess they are saying you are a man who hates women. Your wife/girlfriend/female relatives would probably all dispute that point.

[juajen]

42. Would you mind linking to your posts that garnered that reaction.

I believe your post should be judged by what you said in the other posts. For instance, I have certainly seen some mysogonist and I believe it is perfectly reasonable to call someone on that. Thanks.

[L0oniX]

74. Be nice now. It makes others feel important when they use big words...

and you should recognize that they are of the superior race and superior intellect for all the big words they use to insult others.

:sarcasm:

[gateley]

34. I view Bill the same way after seeing him shred some camera people who

had the camera and mics going when he thought they were off. He was absolutely vicious in his attack! That told me more about his character than anything else.

[JDPriestly]

120. Hillary is arrogant and thinks she should be president

because she is Hillary. Hillary supporters often cannot state really why they support her. If you ask them to explain, only rarely can they respond coherently. I don't understand why that is so, but that is my experience. Today, on an Obama thread, I asked why the posters supported Obama and got two excellent answers. Hillary fans just attack anyone who wants to find out why they support Hillary. I think Hillary and her supporters attract a lot of aggression. It is really weird. That is not true of any other candidate. Hillary may have been like that in 1992 also. Actually, Laura Bush has also attracted her share of criticism. It is par for the course for a president's spouse. Nancy Reagan and Barbara Bush also got a lot of criticism.

But, what is happening with Hillary now is something different. She seems to think that she is a much stronger contender, much better qualified to be president than the other candidates. That is not true, and it is annoying that she has that attitude. In fact, all of our candidates are qualified. I personally studied all the candidates, their personalities, their presentations, their platforms and decided I like Edwards by far the best. But, I still like all the other candidates -- except Hillary. I don't like her corporate friends, her corporate stances, and I don't like her personally. And I know the Hillary supporters will be furious to read this. But, it is my right to dislike Hillary. I think she is a competent person. I just don't want her to be president.

[ryanmuegge]

22. Some of us on the left don't like her because of her husband's policies.

NAFTA, a very misleading formula for calculating inflation (which has implications for Social Security benefits) 1996 Telecommunications Act, normalized trade with China, welfare "reform," Iraq sanctions, right-wing foreign policy (though nothing like the idiot who's in office now) weak environmental policy, and several other issues. This is not to say that he didn't do and say very good things, but many people on the left see him as a far-right Democrat.

People on the right hate the Clintons not so much for their policies, but because they win elections. Moreover, Bill Clinton raised taxes on the rich during his first couple years in office, and that's the only issue the Republican party's string-pullers care about. Once any candidate opposes a tax cut or supports a tax increase, Republicans hate him or her for life.

[MrMickeysMom]

41. But, you know, it's not even that...

I actually liked much of the policies, however, the "free market" sure got worse, after NAFTA, and if she actually had a forward thinking policy for this nation on trade, or foreign policy that wasn't "more of the same", I'd support her. She's a sell out- ALL BY HERSELF!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. In That Respect I Would Compare Her To Nixon

Nixon was loathed by the right wing of his own party and the left wing of the opposition party... That didn't stop him from winning the biggest pop and EC vote landslide in history...Hillary Clinton is loathed by the left wing of her own party and the right wing of the opposition party...

[SoFlaJet]

28. Damn

if that's the best we can do then I feel sorry for our party-another friggin NIXON??? good analogy DSB

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. I Was Making An Observation And Not An Accusation

She doesn't drive me crazy the way she drives some here crazy... I'm jaded when it comes to all politicians... I like her...It just seems like the 90's were such a better time...I'd go back to them in a minute...All politicians have to make compromises and compromise themselves to get elected... I also don't see this great animus toward Hillary among Democrats I know but while most of my friends are Democrats they are garden variety Democrats and not activists...

I also don't think HRC is a bigot, anti-semite, or xenophobe... That also was Richard Nixon...

[NMDemDist2]

121. yeah, what you said! n/t

[L0oniX]

77. Ah ...another WWF fan of Ron Simmons.

:sarcasm:

[MS Liberal]

25. She is divisive because she is a woman.

Do not believe what they tell you, most men do not want a woman to be president. Some women do not like her because she is not in the kitchen, and thinks she is as smart as any man and most women. Some do not like her because he stayed with Bill. Some do not like her because she is a feminist. Some do not like her because she is not a feminist. Some do not like her because she is not feminine. Some do not like her because she is too masculine. You get my drift. She is divisive because most people do not know her, they only think they know her.

I am voting for her because she is a strong, principled, smart, caring lady who can think for herself. I am also voting for her because I like the fact that she makes the right right wing nut cases heads explode here in Mississippi.

[SoFlaJet]

30. WRONG

You're wrong-but just keep telling yourself that if it works for you

[MrMickeysMom]

37. Maybe those right winged assholes in Mississippi have influenced this choice?

... because it certainly seems your driving force to vote Clinton is that she is a strong, principled, smart, caring lady who thinks for herself. Does this trump a strong, principled, smart, caring man who has stood behind the US Constitution more than any other candidate, and who does not run for the sake of the party, as much as for the sake of the country (you have to ask? Kucinich?) Talk about principled. This almost sounds like a reverse discriminated vote.

Hey, it's your vote... I just think these HRC related threads are interesting.

[AndyTiedye]

56. I Have No Problem With A Woman Being President!

I was really hoping that Nancy Pelosi would be President by now
(following the impeachment of Cheney and Bush).

[juajen]

36. This Hillary supporter has never said a word about other

democratic candidates; and, although its impossible to read every thread, I find no more snarkiness over Hill than I do over the other candidates. You're painting with a very broad brush.

[SoFlaJet]

39. and so are the HRC

people who decry me a women hater-that's very wide brush stroke to anybody that knows me

[juajen]

47. It's impossible for us to know you., You could be Dick Cheney in disguise,

for all we know. I would like to see examples of what you wrote what got such animus from Hill supporters.

[SoFlaJet]

50. wanna go hunting....

this winter? I know a nice little farm in west Texas....;-/

[Blue_In_AK]

45. To me she seems haughty, arrogant,

and untrustworthy.

[emilyg]

52. I met her. She is none of that.

[Blue_In_AK]

57. Well, she needs to work on her presentation then

because that's certainly the way she comes across to me.

And, of course, I know that's superficial -- more importantly, she is more hawkish than I feel comfortable with.

[sallyseven]

53. What drives the wedge is the fact

that people would rather listen to other people and the press and take their word that she is awful. The press is bought and sold by the corporations. They don't want a woman in charge. Some DU'rs are just not interested unless it their guy up there. Thats is why.

[L0oniX]

79. Some of us want someone who is for -we the people- and not just the rich

[antiimperialist]

60. Right wingers hate Hillary for idiotic reasons. DU'ers criticize legitimate issues against her

And that's just the way it is.

[journalist3072]

69. "DU'ers criticize legitimate issues against her." Can I recommend your post for the most idiotic

one of the day.

DUers are filled with as much irrational hatred for Sen. Clinton, as the folks on Free Republic.

[antiimperialist]

95. No. DU'ers don't say Hillary and Bill killed Vince Foster, or that she's a lesbian

You are exaggerating, therefore you are the one who deserves the most idiotic post of the day. DU'ers in general criticize her for her legitimate issues. Of course there will be a minority that sticks with the trivial, but like I said, in general, DU'ers cannot be compared with right-wingers. It's not even close.

[creeksneakers2]

112. DUers said Hillary is part of a dominionist cult

and that's she's secretly plotting to install a theocracy in America.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

62. I don't think she represents Democratic ideals, plus I think she'll lose because she's female....

First, this is still a sexist, racist country. Just because she's running and allowed to run, doesn't mean the sexist elements in this country will vote for her, so having her run is a risk Democrats can't afford to take.

Second, in the unlikely chance that she won despite the sexism, I'd be concerned because she has supported too much of what Bush has wanted, has not outright said she would reverse what Bush has done, and has not said she would stop the war in its tracks.

Third, her voting record is not one that reflects what I want in a president. There's not a bill favoring corporate, banking, oil industry, etc. she doesn't like. I have to take that as her stand. Right now, corporations are the enemy of the people. Didn't use to be that way, but now it is, and I'm not going to sugarcoat it for anyone.

I wouldn't mind her as my neighbor. However, is that enough for me to want her as president? No. I have a choice, and my choice is no.

[MH1]

63. 1. She's cold and calculating.

Some of us have seen it in action.

2. She's "in it to win it." Not to better the country. Just to WIN. For Hillary.

These are just my opinions based on observation, but they seem to be shared by quite a few who are turned off by her.

[eridani]

111. "Cold and calculating" might also be read as "cool, calm and collected"

That last stuff is actually good if you have the nuclear football, but her campaign donors and advisers sure the hell are not.

[L0oniX]

67. Indeed ...because they are so nasty toward anyone who posts a negative about her...

I will never vote for her. I won't be on the same side as these nasty dems who think I/we don't have a right to prefer another dem candidate over her. The repukes are hoping to run against her because of her baggage and if she gets the nomination and looses the general election it will be your fault. We need a new face and new ideas and we need someone who is for -we the people- and not the rich bastards and corporations.

[rurallib]

71. Her supporters on here have persuaded me to maybe not vote

next fall if she is the nominee. It is a discussion forum folks. Discuss don't impugn. This will be my last post about Hillary.

[mtnsnake]

80. Obama's supporters here made even Obama embarrassed that they support him.

[rurallib]

96. can't argue with that either.

[emilyg]

98. I can relate to you. Obama (some) supporters have turned me against him.

[silverojo]

82. Read people's posts, and you'll understand

She's a DLC'er. End of story.

[cuke]

84. 15 years of repuke propoganda

DUers love their rightwing propoganda

[sniffa]

86. i get off on it

[cuke]

87. I enjoy smoking dennis droppings

the head is far out

[sniffa]

88. rock on

:thumbsup:

[hedgehog]

85. I can't support Senator Clinton because she is so closely tied to President

Clinton. By all accounts, she helped get him elected.

Back in 1992, President Clinton, then governor of Arkansas, allowed the execution of a retarded man rather than be perceived as weak on crime.

Early in the Clinton administration, a promised reform of the health insurance system went down in flames and no second attempt at reform was made.

NAFTA was passed minus labor and environmental protections.

An order to the military to drop discrimination against gays devolved into don't ask, don't tell.

Welfare reform passed, and demand for food pantries surged.

We kept bombing Iraq.

[mtnsnake]

93. The thing about Hillary is that everyone loves her but not everyone can have her

so it pisses the ones off who can't handle the reality that they can't have her all for themselves...they've got to be willing to share the Goddess of Peace so the entire country benefits, and some people just aren't too willing to share. Don't let anyone tell you differently, but the Obama supporters would give their right arm to be able to love Hillary, but first they have to prove themselves more worthy before they're capable of expressing that love for her.

Don't forget...the sum is more important than the parts. :smoke:

[MrMickeysMom]

94. Yeah...

... and sure gotta be SUM buzz you got off that weed, neh?
B-)

[ripple]

100. Her sense of entitlement. It's patently undemocratic. n/t

[proudmoddemo]

101. It's That She Tries Too Hard

I know several people that have worked with Hillary before. They universally say that she is a bright, engaging, kind, warm hearted, and effective person. Those that have spent time around her universally like her.

But she doesn't come across that way on TV. I've come to the conclusion that in the Senate cloak room--where there are no cameras--that she can be who she really is, and that's a pretty good person. But when she's speaking, or when she's working the rope line that she's trying hard to uphold the image of what she thinks people want her to be. I don't know if that's personally insecurity (most politicians, on some level, are pretty insecure), or what. She spends too much time thinking how to phrase her lines so that they will be "acceptable," while still adhering to her beliefs. That makes her sound inauthentic, and it's her Achilles Heel in 2008.

[loveangelc]

102. she just does too much.

the fact that she found it necessary to look up obama's kindergarten records proved that for me. Um...Hillary...you're just doin' too much.lol

[harmonicon]

109. I can give you my reason(s)

She really let me down.... now, I'm not from New York, so it's probably none of my business, but I had such high hopes for her as a Senator, and she just wasn't the legislator I wanted her to be. She's become more conservative over the years, which isn't what I go for. I think she hit the nail on the head in one of the debates (without knowing it) when discussing taxes. She said that she and her husband would be happy to pay more in taxes, especially since they'd never expected to be so wealthy. Well, now she's rich, and it seems like she's just out of touch with poorer folk than she was 10 - 20 years ago. Maybe this didn't answer your question..... I don't think she's any worse than most senators, but since the expectations were higher, so was the let down.

[Imagevision]

113. Hillary is going to find out the hard way why Gore wanted Clinton away from his campaign, everytime

Bill gives a speech for Hillary her numbers actually do drop (last week was a joke) with Bill claiming he was against going to war from the beginning and surprisingly the M$M jumped all over him playing old video showing just the opposite. I hope Bill continues on his political ego trip.

[Captain Angry]

114. I think the wedge is courtesy of the media.

I know people that can't stand her, but don't know why.

I know people that love her, but for all of the wrong reasons.

I think the media is handing us a candidate, and telling us that this is THE candidate, and it isn't their call.

Each candidate has a platform. Each one has a voting record. Some candidates have records that don't fit with their stated platforms. Hypocrisy happens. Long careers allow cherry picking on votes.

The media whips up a frenzy of pro/anti candidate stuff, sits back and sells advertising time because they now have a whole bunch of viewers that will spend time supporting or denying the statements.

It's a scam.

[elana i am]

116. the laundry list...

iraq
kyl/lieberman
nafta
pro-lobby
dlc
walmart
rupert murdoch
several of her consulants
a few of her campaigners
her lecherous creep of a husband

[Perry Logan]

127. You are not fit to lick Bill Clinton's boots.

[bvar22]

130. But YOU are,

AND doing a wonderful job!

[TheWraith]

122. I think it's because she isn't really defined by anything.

She's not entirely against the war, but she's not exactly for it, either. She's not really left or really right. She's neither dull nor energetic, monotonous or inspiring.

She's not so much a waffler as she's just stubbornly neutral on everything, which causes her to become a mirror for other people. The Republicans look at her and see an scarecrow-esqe ultra-liberal caricature. Liberals see her as a calculating, right-leaning manipulator. Some people see her as the great hope for a woman president, others see a horrible compounding and reenforcement of all the stereotypes thrown at powerful women.

I don't think she's neccessarily any of those things, but striving to be the blandest, most conventionally political candidate doesn't qualify you for the presidency.

[Beacool]

123. Well, it's very simply.

If you don't like her, then don't vote for her, that goes for everybody else. It's such a bore to have to respond to the constant "divisive" B.S.

You prefer the Obama & Oprah circus? Then vote for him. You like the self professed champion of the poor? Then vote for Edwards. You like the candidates with many years of experience? Then vote for either Biden, Dodd or Richardson. If you like those on the fringe, then Kucinich must be your man.

Either way, I will vote for Hillary and no amount of hate from the left or right will dissuade me. I think that she's the best candidate, the one who can actually win in 08 and I don't give a rat's tail end what anybody else thinks of her. Thank goodness that there are millions of people who do support her. But, in the unlikely event that she doesn't get the nomination, then I'll vote for whoever is the Democratic nominee.

[OneBlueSky]

124. it's simple, really . . . a vote for Hillary is a vote for "more of the same" . . .

like Bush, she is a died-in-the-wool corporatist whose policies will invariably favor corporate interests over the interests of the people . . .

just like Bush's . . .

'nuff said . . .

[cali]

125. oh nonsense. more opinion as a shoddy substitute for facts

her senate record doesn't reflect the DU mindless meme that she "just like bushco" and nothing but a "corporatist". Life of course, is more complex than simple minded memes.

Frankly, despite his rhetoric, I think JE's actions show him to be strongly on the side of the corporations. Why? One word: Fortress. He made millions with the sleaziest people in the financial services world and $500,000 for part time consulting for them- and that was in 2005. He talks a good game, but his actions don't live up to his words.

[Perry Logan]

126. I think she just offends assholes.

Here's her record, which doesn't back up any of the shit her detractors keep repeating:

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Humane Society of the United States 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Trust for Historic Preservation 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Education Association 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Wilderness Coalition 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Children's Defense Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Association of University Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Organization for Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 91 percent in 2006.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 100 percent in 2005

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence 100 percent from 1988-2003 (Senate) or 1991-2003 (House).

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Public Health Association 80 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Service Employees International Union 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers 84 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Worker 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees 88 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of Government Employees 83 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Committee for an Effective Congress 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 100 percent in 2005.

According to the National Journal - Composite Liberal Score's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on economic, defense and foreign policy issues than 80 percent of the Senators.

According to the National Journal - Liberal on Social Policy's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on social policy issues than 83 percent of the Senators.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Alliance for Retired Americans 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans 92 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Bread for the World 100 percent in 2003-2004.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Partnership for the Homeless 100 percent in 2003-2004.
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=WNY99268

She was promoting universal coverage before it was cool. Furthermore she helped to create the SCHIP program. And most importantly she was dead on in the debate the other week where she said political will was the most important thing needed to push health care reform through and we know without a doubt she has that.

She has fougt unrelentingly for a woman's right to choose as well as women's rights both domestically and abroad

Create a Strategic Energy Fund - Hillary has proposed a Strategic Energy Fund that would inject $50 billion into research, development and deployment of renewable energy, energy efficiency, clean coal technology, ethanol and other homegrown biofuels. Hillary's proposal would give oil companies a choice: invest in renewable energy or pay into the fund. Hillary's proposal would also eliminate oil company tax breaks and make sure that oil companies pay their fair share for drilling on public lands. Instead of sending billions of dollars to the Middle East for their oil, Hillary's proposal will create a new clean energy industry in America and create tens of thousands of jobs here.

Champion a Market-Based "Cap and Trade" Approach - Hillary supports a market-based, cap and trade approach to reducing carbon emissions and fight global warming. This approach was used successfully to limit sulfur dioxide and reduce levels of acid rain in the 1990s. By capping the amount of emissions in the environment and allowing corporations to buy and sell permits, this approach offers corporations a flexible, cost-efficient method to do their share to reduce emissions and combat global warming. The program will reduce emissions, drive the development of clean technologies, and create a market for projects that store carbon dioxide.

20% Renewable Electricity Standard by 2020 - Hillary believes we need to shift our reliance on high carbon electricity sources to low-carbon electricity sources by investing in renewable energy sources, such as solar and wind. As President, she'll work to require power companies to obtain 20 percent of their energy from renewable sources by 2020.

Make Federal Buildings Carbon Neutral - Hillary believes that the federal government should lead the way in reducing carbon emissions from buildings. Buildings account for 40 percent of U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, and the federal government owns or leases more than 500,000. Hillary would require all federal buildings to steadily increase the use of green design principles, energy efficient technologies, and to generate energy on-site from solar and other renewable sources. By 2030, all new federal buildings and major renovations would be carbon neutral, helping to fight global warming and cutting the $5.6 billion that the federal government spends each year on heating, cooling and lighting.

Protecting Against Exposure to Toxic Chemicals - Hillary wants to make the products we use safer, especially for children. There are tens of thousands of chemicals used in the U.S. and hundreds of new chemicals introduced each year, but little health testing is conducted for many of them. Hillary would require chemical companies to prove that new chemicals are safe before they are put on the market, and would set more stringent exposure standards for kids. She would also create a "priority list" of existing chemicals and require testing to make sure they are safe. To improve our understanding of the links between chemicals and diseases like cancer, Hillary would create an "environmental health tracking network" that ties together information about pollution and chronic diseases.

Hillary's Record

In the White House, Hillary led efforts to make adoption easier, to expand early learning and child care, to increase funding for breast cancer research, and to help veterans suffering from Gulf War syndrome who had too often been ignored in the past. She helped launch a national campaign to prevent teen pregnancy and helped create the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997, which moved children from foster care to adoption more quickly and the number of children who have moved out of foster care into adoption has increased dramatically.

She was instrumental in designing and championing the State Children's Health Insurance Program, which has provided millions of children with health insurance. She battled the big drug companies to force them to test their drugs for children and to make sure all kids get the immunizations they need through the Vaccines for Children Program. Immunization rates dramatically improved after the program launched.

Hillary has been a leading member of the Environment and Public Works Committee since she was elected to the Senate. Today, she chairs the Superfund and Environmental Health Subcommittee and in that capacity has promoted legislation to evaluate and protect against the impact of environmental pollutants on people's health and clean up toxic waste.

Global warming and Clean Air
Spoken out forcefully about the need to tackle global warming in hearings, speeches, rallies and on the Senate floor and co-sponsored "cap and trade" legislation.
Worked to reduce air pollution that causes asthma and other respiratory diseases by writing and helping to pass new laws to clean up exhaust from school buses, and other diesel-powered equipment.
Supported legislation to reduce pollution from power plants, including harmful emissions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, mercury, and carbon dioxide - emissions that contribute to poor air quality, smog, acid rain, global warming, and mercury contamination of fish.
Aggressively fought the Bush Administration's ill-advised attempts to weaken clean air laws.

Improving Water Quality and Protecting Drinking Water
Helped to overturn the Bush Administration's attempt to allow more arsenic in drinking water.
Cosponsored legislation to protect lakes, rivers and coastal waters by fighting the spread of destructive invasive species, such as the zebra mussel.
Helped ot pass new clean water laws, including measures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

Protecting Public Lands
Fought oil company efforts to pen the Artic Wildlife Refuge in Alask and Pacific and Atlantic coastal waters to drilling.
Cosponsored the Roadless Area Conservation Act, which prohibits road construction and logging in unspoiled, roadless areas of the National Forest System, and voted for additional funding and manpower to combat forest fires in the west.

Reducing Dangerous Chemicals and Cleaning Up Hazardous Waste
Supported legislation to restore the "polluter pays" principle by reinstating a chemical company fee to fund cleanups of highly contaminated "Superfund" waste sites.
Cosponsored the "kids-Safe Chemical Act," which requires chemical companies to provide health and safety before putting new chemicals in consumer products.
Proposed legislation to create an environmental health tracking network to enable us to better understand the impact of environmental hazards on human health and well-being.

Tackling the Toxic Legacy of 9/11
Pushed for health care benefits for first responders, residents and others whose health has been impacted from breathing the toxic dust and smoke in New York City after 9/11.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/8/20/134810/677

Hillary Clinton co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund, in 1977. In late 1977, President Jimmy Carter (for whom she had done 1976 campaign coordination work in Indiana) appointed her to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation, and she served in that capacity from 1978 through the end of 1981. For much of that time she served as the chair of that board, the first woman to do so. During her time as chair, funding for the Corporation was expanded from $90 million to $300 million, and she successfully battled against President Ronald Reagan's initial attempts to reduce the funding and change the nature of the organization.

Following the November 1978 election of her husband as Governor of Arkansas, Clinton became First Lady of Arkansas in January 1979, her title for a total of twelve years. Bill appointed her chair of the Rural Health Advisory Committee the same year, where she successfully obtained federal funds to expand medical facilities in Arkansas' poorest areas without affecting doctors' fees.

Hillary Clinton chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee from 1982 to 1992, where she sought to bring about reform in the state's court-sanctioned public education system. One of the most important initiatives of the entire Clinton governorship, she fought a prolonged but ultimately successful battle against the Arkansas Education Association to put mandatory teacher testing as well as state standards for curriculum and classroom size in place. She introduced Arkansas' Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth in 1985, a program that helps parents work with their children in preschool preparedness and literacy.

And a bit of stuff from the White House years:

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage. She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare. She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.

The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome. Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice. In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage.<124> She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare.<125> She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.<43> The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome.<43> Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice.<43> In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.<43> As First Lady, Clinton hosted numerous White House Conferences, including ones on Child Care (1997),<126> Early Childhood Development and Learning (1997),<127> and Children and Adolescents (2000),<128> and the first-ever White House Conferences on Teenagers (2000)<129> and Philanthropy (1999).<130>

Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

"...Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries..."

More:
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/israel/index.cfm
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/darfur


The following are polls from progressive groups, rating Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, on how often they vote for progressive issues. For each group, http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php

Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (progressivepunch)
Overall Progressive Score: 92% 90%
Aid to Less Advantaged People at Home and Abroad: 98% 97%
Corporate Subsidies 100% N/A
Education, Humanities and the Arts 88% 100%
Environment 92% 100%
Fair Taxation 97% 100%
Family Planning 88% 80%
Government Checks on Corporate Power 95% 97%
Healthcare 98% 94%
Housing 100% 100%
Human Rights & Civil Liberties 82% 77%
Justice for All: Civil and Criminal 94% 91%
Labor Rights 91% 91%
Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful 94% 90%
War and Peace 80% 86%
easures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

[Alamom]

128. I think you're right ......(Thanks for the resume post. I don't believe I've seen

other candidate supporters post anything.I wonder why)

[speedoo]

129. Whatever it is, the rethugs are ready to destroy her.

I am convinced she is not electable.

[MadHound]

131. For me it is her policies and stands on the issues

She's entirely too much of a warmonger for me, and entirely too deep in the pockets of corporate America and various PACs(AIPAC comes to mind immediately). Personality, I don't give a damn about that, but continuing to enable an illegal, immoral war is a pretty big negative in my book.

[Arugula Latte]

135. People seem to love her or hate her ... little middle ground.

I used to like her when she was First Lady, but now I just can't abide the way she talks ... You can see her reviewing the tapes in her head: "What did my handlers tell me to say in this situation, again?"