Now I've heard it All!!! People on DU accusing Sean Penn of regurgitating RW talking Points

[MadBadger]

MY god, what is wrong with you people??? He doesnt like HRC, and so do a lot of people. That doesnt mean hes parroting Rush Limbaugh's words. Its frickin Sean Penn people, remember "blood soaked Underwear?" I sure do.

I've definitely heard it all.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3806942&mesg_id=3807077

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3806942&mesg_id=3807128

Among others in that thread. Have these people lost their minds?

[Donnachaidh]

1. some factions doing a Borgian stance now?

And attacking those that will not assimilate? :eyes: It's a sign of desperation.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

4. That's exactly what it is -- our own little band of desperate Swiftboaters -- not very attractive...

...but very revealing.

[cuke]

38. So you support the wife-beating Penn?

I would rather be a swift boater than a wife beater

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

48. Like I said...

...not very attractive, but very revealing. Carry on, oh desperate one.

[cuke]

52. Afraid to answer the question?

Do you support the wife beating Sean Penn?

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

57. Excellent question...

...let me just say this, about that: you're an idiot.

[cuke]

60. Still don't want to answer the question?

Can't say I'm surprised

[ClarkUSA]

2. Didn't you know that Sean Penn is part of the vast right wing conspiracy?

:eyes:

[MadBadger]

3. Guess I didnt realize it

[BootinUp]

6. Of course not, thats Krugman and Hillary!@ LOL nt

[ThatPoetGuy]

5. I heard some guy regurgitating RW talking points recently....

He was saying that Obama is a Muslim, because Muslims aren't allowed to stop being Muslim. He said this in a completely unrelated thread, and it made no sense because there's no reason to believe Obama was EVER a Muslim.

Still, this hasn't stopped this scurrilous claim from appearing all over the RW blogosphere.

I've only seen it one place outside of RW talking points. Some halfwit was making that claim here on DU.

[ClarkUSA]

8. Why am I not surprised that Obama was the target?

Well, that Clinton staffer who was spreading the Republican "Obama is a Muslim who attended madrassa" swift boating rumor must have
a lot of free time on her hands now... hmmm...

[ThatPoetGuy]

13. Candidate supporters here have been making me ill.

I'd pick Edwards for his populist platform, but I'd take any of ours and sleep better than I have for the last seven years.

Any of our guys will help.

I don't enjoy the vitriol directed towards Hillary or Obama. We'll get enough of that in the general election.

:: edited because I talked shit about someone who didn't deserve it.

[MadBadger]

16. Did you just say I tried to spread a smear about Obama?

[ThatPoetGuy]

18. Oh shit, I'm so sorry --

I went back and checked the posts. I had you confused with someone else.

What's the best way to handle this? Should I delete the earlier post?

[MadBadger]

20. whatever, I dont care anymore

Do what you want. I was just a little shocked cuz I had the Obama Icon. Its all good.

[creeksneakers2]

34. More lies from the same source n/t

[caligirl]

7. Penn supported Dean, he was at a Dean event as were my husband and I

in San Francisco. He sat in the lower(most expensive tickets) area with Bonny Rait. Who else besides Kucinich has publicly advocated for single payer health care? Not even my candidate, Edwards, has done that.

I have the greatest respect for Penn, he says what he believes, he believes what he says.

[sendero]

9. Sean Penn..

.. is a lot smarter than a lot of people here.

[MadBadger]

10. Really? cuz that crowd says hes nothing without his writers.

[sendero]

11. Really...

... people who are real Dems who still support HRC are morons. Sean Penn is not a moron. See how that works?

[MadBadger]

14. Well, I personally dont appreciate being called a moron

Cuz i realize that she is better than any person the repukes have to offer.

[sendero]

17. That's not the test..

... anyone is better than an Repug, what's your freaking point?

[MadBadger]

21. I want my vote to count, and I am not going to just sit one out if she is on the ballot

If enough people sit this election out, that means a Republican gets elected, and yes, any dem is better than any Republican. Well be in Iraq for the next ten years with a Republican in office, maybe longer.

[sendero]

33. I will concede that point..

.... if she's nominated, it is highly unlikely that I wouldn't vote for her.

I just hope it doesn't come to that.

To be honest, I think the Dems have the same problems the Repugs do in 2008, few if any good candidates.

[Hieronymus]

54. Which crowd is that?

[saracat]

12. Actually most of what his detractors attribute to him he doesn't even say! I don't think they read

his speech.it certainly wasn't "sexist" or any of the other comments that are being argued.I also don't think it was a terribly good speech but maybe it was better in delivery.It is typical that if one so much as mentions Hillary one is demonized.So Sean Penn thinks Hillary is poisonously ambitious? So what? Worse has been said about the other candidates, some not printable.

[ThatPoetGuy]

15. Actually, I don't think you've read it.

For one thing, it's meaningless. It's loaded with all kinds of emotional terms, like "poisonous ambition," but it doesn't address policy issues or substance.

The speech is full of emotional, misogynist imagery. Check out this line from the wife-beater: ""as a strategic politician, Mrs. Clinton pulled out her set of Ginzu knives and dominated once again on 'centrist' political strategy." I'm pretty sure she didn't actually have a set of knives with her -- so those knives are metaphorical. What do you think they stand for, in this image of a woman who is presuming to "dominate"?

[saracat]

19. I certainly did read it. And I thought that was one of the better parts of the speech.

I got the allusion of Hillary quickly "carving out a centrist position". I said I didn't think the speech was that great. But it was NOT "sexist" Many pundits use the phrase "carving out' a political position.It isn't "sexist' when it is used to describe a males and everything is not suddenly different because Hillary is a woman.She is just a politician like any other and deserves no more or less deference.I get that Sean Penn doesn't like her.I don't like her either but not because she is a woman but because of her policies.And as for Penn addressing issues of policy or substance, he isn't running for office, he doesn't have to.He is endorsing Kucininch, and he explains why.He has no obligation to research Hillary's record.

[Bitwit1234]

22. Who cares what he says...no body with sense listen to him anyway

why do people think a celebrity, just because they have a platform to rant know more than they do....shows how childest people are. A movie star is a person and has no more weight than you or I.

[cali]

23. Who cares what he is to say?

only people who want to latch onto something that skewers Clinton, and you folks don't care who says it, as long as the person is famous and on the left.

[druidity33]

25. i care

but it's because i respect the body of his work as an Actor, Filmaker, and Artist. And because i'm a Kucinich supporter. And as far as him saying anything that "skewers Clinton"... he was critical of her, yes. Is that not allowed? To point out a candidates failings as you see them? Isn't that the idea behind Primaries... to pick the candidate you think is best for the job?

Being dismissive of someone's voice just because you don't agree with them seems to be a Clinton supporter trait around here lately...

[cali]

27. except that I'm not a Clinton supporter,

Didn't anyone ever teach you not to jump to conclusions? Or open your mouth when you don't have a clue?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The only endorsements in this race that mean anything to me, are those of my two Senators: Bernie Sanders and Pat Leahy- and even their opinions won't be decisive for me.

Here's my problem with Penn: He's a wife beater. I don't want to hear what men who beat on women have to say about women candidates- that's for damn sure. And his language was poisonously sexist.

[druidity33]

29. bahh, pffft. nt

[cali]

30. bwahahaha

I love the eloquence one encounters so frequently on DU.

:rofl:

[druidity33]

32. yup

similar to what Dickens or Poe might use. It's called Onomatoepia.

In fact, "bwahahaha" is another instance of DU's "eloquence"...

:)

[cuke]

36. Do you respect Penn's "body of work" as a wife-beater?

Or is domestic violence a sign of political wisdom?

[druidity33]

40. i don't know

the man personally. Nor do i know Madonna. I am suspicious of anything i read in tabloids though, and you are talking about a situation that is nearly 20 years old... and none of us were there to witness.

I am dubious of anyone that is willing to discount a human being because of mistakes that may have been made while young and passionate. If you want to know whether to discount his opinion, you should ask Madonna...

I however am willing to say that i think Sean Penn is a smart and talented person who has been vocal politically, often on the progressive side of issues for many years.

If you want to dismiss him, that's your prerogative. I am not going to, though, and for you to imply that i condone domestic violence and wife-beating because i won't is disingenuous at best.

:shrug:

good luck in your endeavours...

[cuke]

42. He was convicted. IIRC, he pleaded guilty

How far are you willing to go to excuse violence?

He did it. There's no doubt of this. Even Penn does not dispute this, so why are you?

And Penn has a history of violence. One of his other wives has also had to call the police for protection. He has a record of violence. So why consider his opinion as something that should be considered? He is obviously one of those people who can't walk the walk of liberalism. Beating your wife is NOT a liberal thing to do

[druidity33]

45. keep pointing that finger...

actually he plead to a misdemeanor. And yes, he's still married to Robin Wright-Penn. So she's not "one of his other wives", she's his second wife who he's been with for over 15 years (though they split for a few months in the mid90's). They have 2 children together.

Beyond that, his "record of violence" tends to be relegated to pushing photographers around.

What you seem to be missing is that i'm not excusing his past 'abusive' behaviour. I am lauding the accomplishments that he HAS made.

As a Democrat and a Progressive person myself, i think people can change and for the better. I will not dismiss someone for the rest of their lives because they make mistakes. That a very uncharitable attitude.

Please, look up his entry in Wikipedia. You can throw out the good with the bad if you want. But i won't.

And again you accuse me of condoning/excusing violence...

[cuke]

53. So you turn a blind eye to the wife beating?

How is that NOT condoning his behavior?

[Hieronymus]

56. That "logic" is a bit skewed.

[Hieronymus]

55. Thanks, for inserting some insight into this conversation.

[druidity33]

58. i try

but am limited by my own mind sometimes...

:)

[Cha]

50. You're still right..

it is a "clinton supporter" trait..and, well, I guess some others have it too. :)

Viva Sean Penn!

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. Hillary fans don't seem to fully understand that the objections to her

are very much ingrained in how they broke away from their base and stuck to the middle, splitting the country in half.

From the left's side, their view is that in the middle there are two kinds of individuals. People who still don't "get it" that the corporations have too much power. And corporatist who know it too well and are thriving on the Clinton's ability to neuter progressives through triangulation.

On the right's side, it is their mission to knock anyone who interferes with corporate interests. Someone has to pay for Limbagh's 25 million dollar salary, and it ain't public interest.

[Perry Logan]

26. Clearly, assholes dislike Hillary.

[MadHound]

31. Really?

It seems to me that the only assholes around here are those making broad brush statements like yours. If you want to criticize some individual for their stance, fine. But making such a broad brush insult like yours only goes to show how childish, immature, and, well, assholish you yourself are. Good job pal, you just made your own self look like an asshole.

[MadHound]

28. It is typical among Hillary supporters

If you don't like Hillary, if you criticize Hillary, even legitimate criticism, if you aren't on the Hillary bandwagon fully and completely, you are a "hater" and worse, and anything that you have to say is either "bullshit", "RW talking points" or some other like descriptor.

It is how they operate around here, and sadly I think that this is a microcosm of how Hillary's entire campaign works. Really, really sad, and it is attitudes like this that might just cost her the nomination.

[saracat]

44. That inherent nastiness and sense ofentitlement is beginning to reflect itself in the numbers.

The "alleged, self proclaimed" front runner may have shot herself in the foot. Mark Penn has not crafted an attracive persona. But you know what they say "when you lie down with dogs....." And the alleged frontrunner chose Mark Penn.

[conservdem]

35. This does not surprise me. I wish I could expect more here.

[creeksneakers2]

37. Its sad that Penn isn't regurgitating RW talking points this time

He's regurgitating far left talking points. That's what the world has come to. Its getting harder to tell the difference.

Penn did say some right on stuff but talking about Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld going before firing squads doesn't help Kucinich.

[tom_paine]

39. Our entire nation has lost it's mind.

n/t

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

51. If a determination as to the validity of your statement were to be...

...made by analyzing a single random thread to be selected from DU, and that selected thread happened to be this one, your thesis would move quickly from the realm of informed opinion to that of indisputable fact -- it seems like about half the threads on DU these days would yield this same inescapable conclusion. Sad.

When people run in circles it's a...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ViL3e-4WUi0

[tom_paine]

59. I agree with what you are saying, Mr_J_24, but I was speaking of the whole nation under Busher

You know that whole Up is Down, War is Peace, Slavery is Freedom, Ignorance is Strength kind of thing.

But you reply is much appreciated.

:hi:

[Evergreen Emerald]

41. I don't care who Penn supports. But when he states things like:

"poisonous ambition" in describing Clinton--he is parroting the right-wing talking point. That is the truth of it.

I have not said he is a right-wing tool, or a wing-nut. I said he is parroting the right-wing talking point about Clinton who wants to be president because of some sinister motive and has been planning this conspiracy for years. Obama is using it, and now Penn is using it.

The republicans decided after Bill Clinton was elected that they would attack he and Hillary Clinton incessantly. The goal was to obstruct at every turn. Their goal was to render the Clintons powerless. And in that attempt, they tried to re-define Hillary Clinton by using sexist stereo types of "cold" "calculating" "blindly ambitious" "poisonous." And with the help of the propaganda machine (the media) it worked to an extent.

I assumed that we progressives were above those lies and distortions and above the attempt at mind-control. I thought we could see the lies for what they are.

"poisonous ambition" is a right-wing lie. And Penn-no matter what his credentials, should not be parroting right-wing talking points. It is beneath him.

[cuke]

43. Penn is a misogynist. His complaints have nothing to do with ambition

His concerns are about her honesty and what she would do if elected. The fact that he mis-frames the problem as one of ambition (something that is considered a plus when it's a man) reveals his misogynistic character

[Forkboy]

46. That's because those people are simpletons.

[Hieronymus]

47. I wouldn't believe it if I weren't reading it myself. I'm more convinced

than ever that the DLC is indistinguishable from the Republicans.

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. You have got to be kidding

Well I guess we can say that DU never ceases to amaze.