Wyoming Dem governor says he doesn't want to vote for Dem candidates for prez.

[madfloridian]

Does this guy like anyone at all? Howie Klein of Down With Tyranny is so shocked at this governor's outburst that he posts from India about it. There is a difference between people squabbling about candidates on a forum, and a real life governor blasting all of them.

And I am including what Old Dave Freudenthal said a couple of years ago about another Democratic leader. And what Howie wrote then. At least he is honest and fair....he admits to not liking any of the Democrats.

What he said yesterday from the DWT blog:

"My sincere hope is that I wouldn't have to vote for any of these people, on either side

Freudenthal says none of the candidates--from either party-- has addressed important issues facing the West. "I frankly would reach beyond just my party, the Democrats, and say that my sincere hope is that I wouldn't have to vote for any of these people, on either side," Freudenthal boasted to the Associated Press. He acknowledges, perhaps with a sense of regret, that "in the end, somebody's going to be elected president." Let's just pray he doesn't get any ideas about a lunk-headed Wyoming governor who, for some inexplicable reason, calls himself a Democrat. One of Bush's strongest states-- in terms of support in 2000, 2004 and even in recent job-approval surveys-- Wyoming reelected Freudenthal last year with 70 percent of the vote.

In 2005 he attacked another Democratic leader, Howard Dean. I believe his state had just received $120,000 from the DNC, not the usual thing to happen. His office was asked why he was being so rude when his state party was benefitted much more than usual financially. His office did not even know about the 50 state plan, nor did they care.

Here is what Howie posted at that time when the Governor said at the meeting of Democrats: "I don't care about Howard Dean".

I DON'T CARE ABOUT DAVE FREUDENTHAL

Wyoming is a GOP bastion (to put it mildly)-- with Repugs controlling the state legislature and all the statewide offices including both Senate seats and the lone congressional seat-- but with a first term, and very popular, Democratic governor, Dave Freudenthal. Freudenthal was able to capitalize on a "time for a change" approach in the otherwise one-party state (where Bush got about 70% in 2004). This past weekend the state Democratic Party had a meeting; I guess in a state with more Democrats it would have been called a convention. Freudenthal said Wyoming Democrats "should distance themselves from liberal national party leaders whose agenda frequently differs from" Wyoming's. Wyoming Democrats should instead focus on local issues that relate to Wyoming residents... I don't care about Howard Dean."

All 75 Democrats in the state were there, as was DNC Vice Chairman Rep. Mike Honda (D-CA). "This is a party that's not afraid of firearms," Freudenthal blathered on, probably forgetting that Dean is not only an NRA member but also a candidate who was endorsed by the NRA. "It's a party where people are interested in whether the governor managed to shoot an antelope with one shot."

Honda, probably shocked by the yahoo Governor trying to make cheap points at Dean's expense, even though Dean is the Party's BIGGEST champion of state organizations, said Democrats have learned a lot of hard lessons in the last few years and are ready now to move forward. "We have a hard time deciding what our core values are and what are issues," he said. "Howard Dean gets that. He's going around the country talking to people." Local policy variances are also something that the DNC can accommodate, he said. "Different places have different culture, and we have to deal with it," Honda said. "Your politics are pretty good. They're down to earth." Freudenthal and Honda both agreed on how the party could gain more power: Focus on local elections and local issues.

However, when asked whether this is the year for big Democratic gains in Wyoming, Freudenthal, sounding like any of the DLC pols who have wrecked the Democratic Party before a grass roots anti-Establishment movement gave Dean the Party chairmanship, said: "I wouldn't hold your breath."

This in my mind goes to the mantra that we have been taught as a central doctrine of red state tolerance.....we have always said if someone lives in a red state they get a pass on their votes and on their words.

I have always disagreed with that. I think Democrats should stand up for what is good for the people, things are traditionally connected with us. I say if we keep excusing Democrats talking like and voting like Republicans in Red States....then we get more Republicans.

Just look at my state as an example. We have done that for years and years.

I do not think it is acceptable for Democratic governor in ANY state to attack our candidates like that.

[killbotfactory]

1. sigh

I'm moving out of this goddamn state.

[sandnsea]

2. Have to find a way to infiltrate

We can't change votes until we change these people's minds.

[ingac70]

3. Wyoming? A Yellow Dog Democrat...

:puke:

[Capn Sunshine]

4. Wyoming- I think there's more people in my county

Yet they get two freaking Senators.

And they say Land doesn't vote....

[madfloridian]

5. If he wants renewable energy....and he doesn't like Democrats

then he has problems.

http://www.jacksonholestartrib.com/articles/2007/12/08/news/regional/2e60a8274c96cdae872573aa005894a7.txt

The Denver-based group asked Congressional leaders in a letter Thursday to support, among other things, 10-year extensions of the production tax credit for all renewable electricity technologies and the investment tax credit for solar technologies.

The letter, signed by the group's chairman, Democratic Gov. Dave Freudenthal of Wyoming, and vice chairman, Republican Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. of Utah, also supports a significant increase in the tax credit and accelerated timetable for clean-coal technologies and capture of carbon dioxide emissions.

"As Governors we have been actively implementing and advocating for clean energy policies in our own states. We are also cooperating at a regional level," the governors wrote.

He doesn't like the Democratic choices at all....so maybe we should tell the Governor that the Republicans oppose their quest for renewable energy incentives.

The bill's fate is uncertain as it heads to the Senate, where Republican opposition is strong. White House officials have said President Bush opposes the measure's repeal of tax breaks for the oil industry and renewable energy mandates for utilities.

[Kucinich4America]

6. Was this guy another one of Rahm Immoral's picks?

certainly sounds like one.

[Freddie Stubbs]

14. How exactly would a Congressman from Illinois pick the Governor of Wyoming?

Please try to get your conspiracy theories straight.

[Kucinich4America]

37. Why the Hell is he picking Congressmen for other states?

And it's not a conspiracy theory at all.

[Freddie Stubbs]

40. You didn't answer how he picked the Governor of Wyoming

Do you have any evidence of this?

[malakai2]

7. Living in South Dakota, I hear a lot of this stuff

And criticism of rational approaches to national problems that require cutting ineffective programs here (or ND, WY, MT, ID, UT, etc.) usually goes "(Insert name of politician) just doesn't understand South Dakota (or other state, in this case, WY)." That's all it takes to lose people here. Want to start charging ranchers market rate to graze their herds on Federal land? You'll be hit with "You don't understand Wyoming." Want to start taxing mine operators to pay for the extrinsic costs of their endeavors? Again, "You don't understand Wyoming." Want to start moving away from coal mining subsidies and towards renewable subsidies? Guess what? You'll hear something about not understanding Wyoming. Essentially, don't ask for Wyoming to carry it's share, and you'll get along just fine.

It's frustrating as hell. I could understand arguments against these proposals if there was some logic to follow, but that's the beauty of the whole thing for politicians here...repeating this one simple phrase relieves the listener of any obligation to go out and think, and reinforces the general mistrust of big city politicians (liberal, so the stereotype goes), which benefits the local politician, who, if he presents himself as the locals' ally against the big city liberal commie folks, stands to keep his job for a long time (money, power, etc). About the only useful thing a lot of these high plains and northern Rockies politicians give us is the D after their name, and even that does us no good when these guys start cannibalizing other, much more useful Dems.

[ima_sinnic]

8. asshole.

ignoramus shithead fake "democrats" should be tarred and feathered.

[acmavm]

9. A governor from Dick Cheney's home state no less.

[Time for change]

10. Kick him out of the party

[paulk]

11. ever been to Wyoming?

it is an incredibly parochial and conservative place. Utah is the only state where Bush has a higher approval rating.

You're still bellyaching because they dissed Dean a couple of years ago. It was a smart political move, and if you had actually spent some time out here you would understand that.

There is nothing westerners despise more than some east coaster, steeped in ignorance about the west, telling us how we should do things.

[madfloridian]

12. "There is nothing westerners despise more than some east coaster"

If all westerners sound like you and Dave, I will stay away.

That is exactly what is wrong with our party.

If you live in a red state, you can say what you like, do what you like, not be a part of helping to change the country.

Got it, paulk.

Typical talk. You are excusing a governor who is a Democrat for saying none of our candidates is good enough.

Shame on you.

[Moderate Dem]

18. As a southern Democrat, I would ask you

What do you want to "change the country" to? Massachusetts? I've never been to Wyoming, but as a Virginian, we like our own Democrats just fine here, even when they're to the right of the far left.

And no, I wouldn't have voted for Howard Dean either.

[madfloridian]

21. So you like the way our country is acting?

That's alarming to me. You and the folks from the west would rather be independent than work with the rest of us to save the economy and make our country strong again?

Hey, strong and independent spirit you have.

Good for you guys.

You got what you want, and the rest should just bug off.

[D23MIURG23]

42. How about back into country ruled by law?

Far Left? Bill O'Rally memes on the DU?

Heres a hint: there is already a party "to the right of the far left".

What we need is a party to the left of Mussolini.

[StClone]

24. Why can't we say some states suck?

[madfloridian]

13. And more: to you the world is all about smart politics.

That's it. No integrity or honesty, just say what you like and do what you like because you live in Wyoming.

I think I will wait until Old Dave is gone before I go there if ever. It is hard enough living in my own red state.

At least my Republican governor is more courteous to Democrats than my Democratic senator is.

Your statements disgust me. It is not ok for a Dem governor to look down his nose at the rest of us.

Is that how the rest of Wyoming feels about other Democrats?

[paulk]

22. I'm a realist, and smart politics wins elections

stupid politics are what put GW Bush in the White House and gave him a Republican Congress to rubberstamp his incompetence.

I don't expect integrity or honesty out of politics. Politics is a nasty, brutal business where power - the gaining of it and it's use - are the primary objectives. Failure to understand this is what puts Democrats at a disadvantage when it comes to the Republicans - who will stop at nothing to get what they want.

What is the point of your calling out the governor of Wyoming? Do you have a plan to replace him with someone more to your liking? Let's hear it.

Let's hear an argument from you on how you intend to get wherever it is you want to go politically. Complaining is easy. Posting "your statements disgust me" is easy.

Tell me how you intend to get someone more liberal than Old Dave in office in Wyoming...

[madfloridian]

25. I don't care if Dave is liberal or conservative. It is about respect.

You really don't get it. It is the legacy of our party's hijacking by a couple of think tanks that makes people talk that way.

The fact that you even think that is what it is about tells me so much.

It is about respect for your party and fellow Democrats who work hard and accomplish a lot.

[paulk]

26. it's about winning elections

politics is about winning elections - if you don't win, you don't get anything in our system.

Saying not so nice things about other Dems, especially east coast Dems, is what helps Dems win elections in places like Wyoming.

I'm sure Howard Dean, as DNC chair, understands this. He's a big boy, he can take a few insults if it helps put a Democrat in office.

[madfloridian]

27. Yes, to you it is all about politics and winning.

I think it is why I am so uncommitted this time. I have seen so many Democrats do anything to just win...even running people who are almost Republicans and getting real Democrats out of the race.

That is not winning. That is becoming Republican by trying to be just like them.

I think you are sounding very superior because you live in the west.

I think maybe the Democrats are wrong on trying to win there after all.

[paulk]

28. well, thanks for pointing up your real agenda

which apparently doesn't include Democrats winning elections.

That's good to know.


-------------------


I'm sounding superior because I live in the west?

ok, whatever...

[madfloridian]

29. Yes. you sounded as though the rest of us..."east coasters" are unimportant.

I believe in winning, but I believe that no one state can be so important as to say the others are not worthy.

In effect, that is what you said. I wrote about and stood up to my own state when our Democrats here got arrogant. The WY governor is just as arrogant as my senator...maybe more so.

[paulk]

30. actually, my experience has been the opposite

and having lived in both places, east coast and western mountains, I've seen both sides. It's been my experience that the east coast treats the mountain west as unimportant, and that's a big part of the resentment.

[madfloridian]

31. And it is a western governor I am quoting.

So it must work both ways.

I said I found it contemptuous the way Florida tried to take over the primary process. I think it is equally contemptuous what Dave said about Democrats.

[paulk]

32. that's fine - you found what old Dave said contemptuous

I'll be sure and tell him next time I see him.

[Ken Burch]

36. How is this guy going to help other Dems or even himself win elections by not backing our ticket?

Trust me, that hasn't worked for Dems up here in the 'ol Last Frontier for YEARS now.

And he didn't have to attack Dean as antigun when Dean himself is an NRA member.

Finally, what's the use of electing somebody as a Democrat whose main program is going to be preventing most of the Democratic Party from achieving anything(which is what conservative Dems are trying to do)?

[paulk]

38. it helps elect Democrats in Wyoming

nowhere else. He got 70% of the vote last time, he must be doing something right. The House election was the closest it's been in years.

Look - nobody gives a shit outside of Wyoming what the gov of that state says. But people in Wyoming care - he's incredibly popular and he's gotten that way by running against the Dem establishment, especially the NE Dem establishment.


What's the use of electing a Democrat? I don't know - I mean, if you don't like it you can contribute money to the RNC or something. Shit, you could probably move to Wyoming and work for the Republican's campaign if it's that important to you.

[madfloridian]

39. So WY wants the benefits of a Dem congress, but they don't want to be seen with them?

That's what it sounds like to me. It sounds pretty selfish, like Dave and the Dems there think they will reap benefits without standing for things.

Can you imagine how we felt when a friend called his office about the Dean comments...wondering if they should accept all the DNC money coming their way if they didn't care for the party at all. The office person was not aware of the new funding. Go figure that one out.

I believe the figure they were receiving for political directors was over $120,000....more to come later.

This is one of the weaknesses of the 50 state plan, giving money to people who hold their fellow Democrats in contempt, and who won't hold to standards we think of as traditionally Democratic. But I guess the party itself got it, not Dave.

[paulk]

43. I understand that you're not real big on actually reading

or even, apparently, trying to understand what people post, but it would be nice, just this one time, if you actually responded to what I said rather than your "interpretation" of what I said?


I have tried, repeatedly, to explain a little bit about the politics of Wyoming, a place you've never been, and, by your own admission, a place you have no interest in visiting.


You haven't paid the least attention to anything I've posted, instead returning over and over again to the same themes, themes that are based in your, once again, self admitted ignorance about the state.


You haven't even attempted to put forth a solution to the "problem" you see, instead choosing only to complain, complain, and then complain again.


That's your right, but I'm through with talking to you on this subject.

[Ken Burch]

41. I didn't ask "what's the use of electing a Democrat"...DON'T twist my words

I asked what was the use of electing a Democrat WHOSE MAIN AGENDA was preventing the progressive majority of the Democratic Party from accomplishing anything. I was asking what is gained by electing somebody who CALLS him or herself a Democrat but who is actually more interested in bashing and derailing OTHER Democrats and the things that most Democrats want. A Democrat who tries to make other Democrats be as conservative as possible can hardly be considered different than a Republican. And a Democratic elected official who announces before the election year has even begun that he probably won't back the Democratic presidential ticket is actually less worthy of the support of Democratic voters than a Republican, if that is possible.

It's not like this guy was only elected because he acts like he hates his own party. Nobody is holding out for a self-loathing Democrat. And it's not like this guy is doing much to build the party in Wyoming. He didn't try to help Democrats increase their strength in the state legislature.

We do NOT need Democratic office holders who act like loyalty to the Democratic Party is somehow beneath their dignity. And it wouldn't have hurt him to point out that Dean ISN'T antigun.

Why assume that the discussion in the Mountain West is over and that all we can ever hope for their is slightly less brutal conservatives?

[Mend]

16. and there is nothing an easterner, such as I, despise more than having my tax

dollars wasted on yahoos like you. The blue states are the giver states and the red states, including Wyoming, are the takers. So while you swagger around like some big shot, remember there are people going hungry because of you. New York Times January 30, 2004. ...http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A00E2D71038F933A05752C0A9629C8B63. If this link is bad, just google taker state new york times and read it and weep.

[paulk]

17. I don't live in Wyoming, I live in Colorado

which is one of only two "red" states that pays more in Fed taxes than if gets back.

I have spent a lot of time over the years both living and working in Wyoming, however, which is why I feel qualified to comment on the political situation there. I also grew up on the east coast, so I've seen both sides of this debate.


Since I've never exchanged posts with you, I'm curious about your overtly hostile tone toward me. Do you treat everyone you don't know this way?

[Mend]

19. speaking of hostile, re-read your 1st post....it is the very definition of rude.

[paulk]

20. what, are you MF's guardian?

:shrug:

[madfloridian]

33. Wow.....interesting data there. Thanks!

"The Democrats' electability predicament comes into focus when you compare the map of Giver and Taker states with the well-worn electoral map of red (Republican) and blue (Democrat) states. You might expect that in the 2000 presidential election, Republicans, the party of low taxes and limited government, would have carried the Giver states -- while Democrats, the party of wild spending and wooly bureaucracy, would have appealed to the Taker states. But it was the reverse. George W. Bush was the candidate of the Taker states. Al Gore was the candidate of the Giver states.

Consider:

78 percent of Mr. Bush's electoral votes came from Taker states.

76 percent of Mr. Gore's electoral votes came from Giver states.

Of the 33 Taker states, Mr. Bush carried 25.

Of the 16 Giver states, Mr. Gore carried 12.

Juxtaposing these maps provides a new perspective on the political landscape. (Interactive moment: Color in the blue and red states -- then you'll get the full picture.) Republicans seem to have become the new welfare party -- their constituents live off tax dollars paid by people who vote Democratic. Of course, not all federal spending is wasteful. <[b>But Republicans are having their pork and eating it too. Voters in red states like Idaho, Montana and Wyoming are some of the country's fiercest critics of government, yet they're also among the biggest recipients of federal largess. Meanwhile, Democratic voters in the coastal blue states -- the ones who are often portrayed as shiftless moochers -- are left to carry the load."

Interesting.

[Clark2008]

15. Hmmm... I agree with him.

I don't like anyone running - on either side.

Actually, that was harsh. Kucinich is OK, but he won't win...otherwise, I'm looking at a sea of corporate toadies on both sides.

That said, I don't know if his reasons for not liking any of them are the same as mine...

[StClone]

23. Kucinich and Edwards

K is my first choice Edwards my second (and back when the General was running he was my pick -- still is for a cabinet post).

[MasonJar]

34. Isn't there another western state with a dem guv? Sweitzer? or a name that

is similar. At first I thought this was he. This guy is way out of line with a statement like this...opportunist, trying to get re-elected?

[madfloridian]

35. Montana and Wyoming are among "the biggest recipients of federal largess"

"Juxtaposing these maps provides a new perspective on the political landscape. (Interactive moment: Color in the blue and red states -- then you'll get the full picture.) Republicans seem to have become the new welfare party -- their constituents live off tax dollars paid by people who vote Democratic. Of course, not all federal spending is wasteful. But Republicans are having their pork and eating it too. Voters in red states like Idaho, Montana and Wyoming are some of the country's fiercest critics of government, yet they're also among the biggest recipients of federal largess. Meanwhile, Democratic voters in the coastal blue states -- the ones who are often portrayed as shiftless moochers -- are left to carry the load."

That is from Mend's post in this thread from the NYT.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3807248&mesg_id=3817504

And one of those governors doesn't like anyone in his own party but will demand a lot of attention. If he thinks the Republicans will help him...he needs to think again.

This is really petty stuff.