Kerry vows to name salmon czar

[Feanorcurufinwe]

Sen. John Kerry would appoint a salmon czar who would answer directly to him and his vice president if he´s elected president. But neither he nor his chief opponent for the Democratic presidential nomination, Sen. John Edwards, are willing to support studies of breaching four dams on the Snake River to aid the fish. Their positions came in response to questions asked of the candidates by The Idaho Statesman.

Kerry also offered a comprehensive plan for reviving the nation´s technology center and aiding companies like Boise´s Micron Technology. Edwards, from North Carolina, proposes giving companies that create jobs that stay at home a 10 percent tax cut.

<snip>

Roger Singer, Idaho director of the Sierra Club, a national environmental group, said either candidate would do more for salmon than President Bush. Singer said he hopes they will keep an open mind on the dams. “I hope they´ll stay open minded enough that if the other fixes prove to be insufficient, that they will address the problems created by the four dams on the Snake River,” Singer said.

<snip>

Kerry proposed a comprehensive plan to revive the nation´s technology sector. It includes:

• Support for the Advanced Technology Program, which provides support for projects that have high potential but can´t get private support.
• Doubling the Manufacturing Extension Program, which offers technical aid to companies.
• Making the research and development tax credit permanent. The credit, first approved in 1981, has been extended regularly and gives a company a computed percentage of the funds it invests in R&D.
• Cracking down on trade and intellectual property violations.
• A State Tax Relief and Education Fund to aid education. It would distribute $50 billion over two years to the states to make up for budget cuts.
• A $4,000 annual College Opportunity Tax Credit.

“If we don´t have a highly educated work force, then more jobs will be at risk for going overseas, and Americans won´t be able to get high-paying jobs,” he said.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/Story.asp?ID=61671

[Mass_Liberal]

1. HAHAHAHA!!!

Salmon Czar. That is hilarious. It's a great plan. But a very goofy name.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. I wonder what spawned that idea?

[KittyWampus]

3. Ouch! Groannnnnnnnnnnnn!

I didn't see that one coming. :D

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

4. The czar's job will be to defend "Roe v. Wade."

:evilgrin:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

5. That's Row v. Wade, the great American fishing controversy

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

6. Fish eggs.

[mouse7]

15. They'll appoint someone with experience from Tobacco Co. lawsuits.

They will want the Salmon Czar to have smoking experience.

[regnaD kciN]

180. Hey, Chum...

...speaking strictly for the halibut, I'd say that on a scale of 1 to 10, this proposal would net about a 2 at best -- reel poor. And that's far from my sole objection to his platform. Keep it up, and his campaign will flounder. Sorry to cast my lot in with those who won't give Kerry a fair herring, but his proposal smelt! And, although I'm sure it angers Kerry loyalists to see me as the fly in the ointment, and figure some will take the bait and try to club me over my "disloyalty," or urge me to clam up, as Cod is my witness, I find myself unable to be lured by Kerry's line.

[Padraig18]

7. What a RELIEF!

The lack of a salmon czar has been keeping me awake at night! :P

[Feanorcurufinwe]

9. I take it you are not a salmon fisherman

or an environmentalist.

:eyes:

[Padraig18]

22. Why would one assume that?

:shrug:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

28. Was I wrong? Are you a salmon fisherman?

[Padraig18]

35. In point of fact, I am.

Why?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

36. LOL - ok you've finally made a post worth laughing at.

[Padraig18]

38. Glad I could help.

You DO know that coho salmon are abundant in Lake Michigan, do you not?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

41. Keep going

explain how your sport fishing in Lake Michigan is related to this topic.

lol

[Padraig18]

43. You asked if I was a salmon fisherman.

I answered you.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

45. Just how is your sport fishing in Lake Michigan related to this topic?

I missed that part of the explanation.

[Padraig18]

49. That wasn't the question you asked.

It's not my job to make sure you ask the right question.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

52. I am asking how your sport fishing in Lake Michigan is related to this

topic.


I'm sorry if answering that question would embarass you.

[Padraig18]

54. That's what you're asking NOW.

Sorry if my pointing out that it wasn't what you asked THEN is embarrassing to you...

[Feanorcurufinwe]

56. In what way is your sport fishing in Lake Michigan related to

Pacific Northwest salmon fisheries management?

lol :hi:

[Padraig18]

59. Sadly, that wasn't the question you asked me.

:hi:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

61. In what way is your sport fishing in Lake Michigan related to

Pacific Northwest salmon fisheries management?

[Padraig18]

67. again, that wasn't the question you asked me.

You asked if I was a salmon fisherman, and I replied that I am. it is not incumbent upon me to tell you the proper question to ask, but merely to answer the one that you do ask--- and I did so. :)

[Feanorcurufinwe]

69. In what way is your sport fishing in Lake Michigan related to

Pacific Northwest salmon fisheries management?

[Padraig18]

72. Plain English.

I answered the question you ASKED, sweet thing! :hi:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

75. In what way is your sport fishing in Lake Michigan related to

Pacific Northwest salmon fisheries management?

[Padraig18]

78. Ciao, sugar buns!

I answered the question you asked--- deal with it.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

80. In what way is your sport fishing in Lake Michigan related to

Pacific Northwest salmon fisheries management?

[Padraig18]

84. In what way is my answering the question you asked unclear, as a concept?

*kiss*:hi:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

86. In what way is your sport fishing in Lake Michigan related to

Pacific Northwest salmon fisheries management?

[Padraig18]

89. Ther, there now, love.

I know how great your disappointment must that I actually answered the question you actually asked me, rather than the one you perhaps SHOULD have asked, or even MEANT to ask, but that's all water under the bridge now. You'll survive the embarrassment, I'm certain! :hug::hi:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

92. In what way is your sport fishing in Lake Michigan related to

Pacific Northwest salmon fisheries management?

[Padraig18]

95. Have fun, dear!

I'm afraid you'll have to play all by yourself now, because Uncle Paddy isn't accustomed to playing with playmates who won't accept a plain English answer to the lain English question he was asked, such as the one that began this particular silly temper tantrum of a thread.

Ta ta, and have fun! :)

Edit: Transcript---

"Feanorcurufinwe (1000+ posts) Sun Feb-22-04 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #7

9. I take it you are not a salmon fisherman


or an environmentalist.



Padraig18 (1000+ posts) Sun Feb-22-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #9

22. Why would one assume that?





Feanorcurufinwe (1000+ posts) Sun Feb-22-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #22

28. Was I wrong? Are you a salmon fisherman?




Padraig18 (1000+ posts) Sun Feb-22-04 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #28

35. In point of fact, I am.


Why?


Feanorcurufinwe (1000+ posts) Sun Feb-22-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #35

36. LOL - ok you've finally made a post worth laughing at.



Padraig18 (1000+ posts) Sun Feb-22-04 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #36

38. Glad I could help.


You DO know that coho salmon are abundant in Lake Michigan, do you not?


Feanorcurufinwe (1000+ posts) Sun Feb-22-04 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #38

41. Keep going


explain how your sport fishing in Lake Michigan is related to this topic.

lol




Alert Printer Friendly | Reply | Top



Padraig18 (1000+ posts) Sun Feb-22-04 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #41

43. You asked if I was a salmon fisherman.


I answered you.






See? :)

[Feanorcurufinwe]

96. In what way is your sport fishing in Lake Michigan related to

Pacific Northwest salmon fisheries management?

[Padraig18]

103. Did you not understand your own question in post #28, darling one?

This may be more than simple dyslexia, I'm afraid. Please see the second post above this for a transcript. :)

[Feanorcurufinwe]

106. In what way is your sport fishing in Lake Michigan related to

Pacific Northwest salmon fisheries management?

[Padraig18]

108. Had that been the question asked in post #28, I would have answered it.

Unfortunately, it wasn't, my precious...:hug::loveya:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

112. In what way is your sport fishing in Lake Michigan related to

Pacific Northwest salmon fisheries management?

[Padraig18]

114. See post #28: asked and answered--repeatedly. n/t

[Feanorcurufinwe]

119. In what way is your sport fishing in Lake Michigan related to

Pacific Northwest salmon fisheries management?

[littlejoe]

115. Somehow, I get the feeling that he doesn't want to answer a simple

direct question.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

Oh, you noticed? lol

[Padraig18]

122. He misread.

I answered the question posed in post #28 long ago, sweet cheeks!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

123. In what way is your sport fishing in Lake Michigan related to

Pacific Northwest salmon fisheries management?


post #28: "Are you a salmon fisherman?"

[babzilla]

141. another good question for you

how is a raven like a writing desk?

Now that I read your guilty confession on another locked thread, why not be absurd?

This is all about the playing of semantic games right? Will your candidate appoint a raven czar as well?

For the record, my "ex-candidate" has no stance on the raven vs. writing desk dilemna.

Greenpeace will surely have something to say about that.

"Have you guessed the riddle yet?" the Hatter said, turning to Alice again.

"No, I give it up," Alice replied. "What's the answer?"

"I haven't the slightest idea," said the Hatter.

"Nor I," said the March Hare.

Alice sighed wearily. "I think you might do something better with the time," she said, "than wasting it in asking riddles that have no answers."

Lewis Carroll himself got bugged about this so much that he was moved to write the following in the preface to the 1896 edition of his book:

Enquiries have been so often addressed to me, as to whether any answer to the Hatter's Riddle can be imagined, that I may as well put on record here what seems to me to be a fairly appropriate answer, viz: `Because it can produce a few notes, tho they are very flat; and it is never put with the wrong end in front!' This, however, is merely an afterthought; the Riddle, as originally invented, had no answer at all.

[Padraig18]

117. No.

"He", being me, HAS answered the question he asked, littlejoe.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

124. In what way is your sport fishing in Lake Michigan related to

Pacific Northwest salmon fisheries management?


post #28: "Are you a salmon fisherman?"

Padraig18's answer: "Apparently you've never fished in Lake Michigan.
If you had, you'd know that it's FILLED with coho salmon, of which I've caught a carload."

[Padraig18]

126. See post #28: asked and answered--repeatedly. n/t

[Feanorcurufinwe]

128. In what way is your sport fishing in Lake Michigan related to

Pacific Northwest salmon fisheries management?


post #28: "Are you a salmon fisherman?"

Padraig18's answer: "Apparently you've never fished in Lake Michigan.
If you had, you'd know that it's FILLED with coho salmon, of which I've caught a carload."

[Padraig18]

131. Oh, you want me to answer a DIFFERENT question than the one in post #28?

That would be a subsequent question, dearest.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

135. In what way is your sport fishing in Lake Michigan related to

Pacific Northwest salmon fisheries management?


post #28: "Are you a salmon fisherman?"

Padraig18's answer: "Apparently you've never fished in Lake Michigan.
If you had, you'd know that it's FILLED with coho salmon, of which I've caught a carload."

[Padraig18]

137. Sorry--one question per caller!

this is WPAD-FM, the voice of downstate Illinois Democrats! :)

[Feanorcurufinwe]

138. In what way is your sport fishing in Lake Michigan related to

Pacific Northwest salmon fisheries management?


post #28: "Are you a salmon fisherman?"

Padraig18's answer: "Apparently you've never fished in Lake Michigan.
If you had, you'd know that it's FILLED with coho salmon, of which I've caught a carload."

[polpilot]

11. The tuna folks are pissed now!!

Charlie's seething!

[littlejoe]

18. Don't worry, I'm sure that Charlie will get equal time in a Kerry admin.

[Padraig18]

23. I demand a bluegill czar, too!

Pan fish have been discriminated against for TOO long, IMO! :P

[Feanorcurufinwe]

27. What an intelligent comment.

How will you possibly follow this one up?

[Padraig18]

29. If I feel like it, I will.

I find it odd that my humorous/sarcastic posts are the only ones in this thread apparently worthy of follow up... Couldn't be a vendetta, could it? Nah.... :shrug:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

31. If you ever manage to

make a humorous post, perhaps, we'll find out. I doubt it, though.

[Padraig18]

33. I have.

Seems you've missed them...

[Feanorcurufinwe]

37. Oh right, your claim to be a salmon fisherman.

Too bad it wasn't as believable as it was funny.

[Padraig18]

40. Apparently you've never fished in Lake Michigan.

If you had, you'd know that it's FILLED with coho salmon, of which I've caught a carload.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

42. It's much easier to have only one flame war per thread

please see post 41.

[Padraig18]

44. Nah.

I'd rather read something worthwhile.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

47. Go for it.

Maybe you'll learn something.

[Padraig18]

50. I doubt it contains information worth knowing. n/t

[Feanorcurufinwe]

55. ???

You said "I'd rather read something worthwhile." -- now you say you doubt what you'd rather read contains information worth knowing.

All the posts you've made in this thread seem to be either off-topic sniping, internally inconsistent distractions, or humourless 'jokes'.

[Padraig18]

58. I was referring to post 41.

Just don't read what I write, if it distresses you so deeply, my love...

[Feanorcurufinwe]

63. Why didn't you do that in your response to post 41?

[mrgorth]

201. So Paddy...

salmon fishing huh? I had no idea about the coho salmon. I likewise had no idea that so many Kerry supporters lacked a sense of humor. Thanks for bringing that out...and making me laugh.

[Capn Sunshine]

205. Czars and their families everywhere thank you for this

:nuke:

[polpilot]

77. This is gettin' so crappie. Go fish!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dept. of Fish

[Feanorcurufinwe]

81. Another insightful comment.

[polpilot]

87. Maybe Kerry meant Mammon Czar?

WHO WANTS TO BE A MILLIONAIRE?
"For $1 million dollars? What couple is comprised of a wife who has married two U.S. Senators and a husband who has married for an AVERAGE of $450 million in EACH of his TWO marriages."

[Feanorcurufinwe]

91. Your personal attacks against Kerry's wife and ex-wife are duly noted.

[Scott Lee]

168. *sniff* *sob*

[IndianaGreen]

178. We need a Tuna Czar!

Some species of tuna is almost extinct!

[JVS]

181. I demand a Czar of all Fish! All Fish Unite!

[babzilla]

8. what will the salmon czar report on directly if no studies are funded?

"But neither he nor his chief opponent for the Democratic presidential nomination, Sen. John Edwards, are willing to support studies of breaching four dams on the Snake River to aid the fish.

<snip>

Kerry criticized the Bush Administration´s lack of funding for the region´s salmon recovery plan. But like President George Bush, he said he is not ready to consider removing four dams on the Snake River in Washington that salmon advocates and most fisheries´ biologists say is necessary to restore healthy populations in Idaho.

“Before we engage in a polarizing debate about dam removal, we should work to restore and improve the salmon´s habitat in the watersheds throughout the Columbia and Snake River Basins,” he said. “We should ensure the harvest of salmon and our hatcheries are properly managed.”

[Feanorcurufinwe]

10. Odd how you asked the question and then answered it in your post.

Did you realize you were doing that?

[babzilla]

34. how so?

Sounds like another unfunded mandate to me. The issue is really about how to relegate the water at the dam sites between the farmers, the energy companies and the salmon. That is where the polarization comes in, the debate is already polarized.

You can't fix the polarization merely by telling everybody what they want to hear and appointing a czar.

BTW, has Kerry decided on a stance on the wind farms in Nantucket Sound yet?

http://www.capecodonline.com/special/windfarm/windfarma12.htm

[Feanorcurufinwe]

51. Well, anyone who reads your post honestly already knows the answer.

As far as the other issue you raise, what is your candidates position on this pressing national issue? Which candidate is that, again? The one you are supporting? Who is it?

[babzilla]

97. I'm asking you, not anyone who reads the post.

could you spell out how I answered my own question?

As far as the other pressing national issue I raised--wind farming is a promising renewable energy resource, it is surprising that Kerry is reluctant to support this program in his own state considering that it is supposedly one of his strongest issues.

Hopefully Kerry's salmon czar will advocate for wind farms in the Northwest which would alleviate our dependence on hydro-electric power to the extent where the farmers and the salmon would have enough water to survive.

Besides the irrigation issue, wind farming would benefit the small family farms as an additional reliable income source.

I support Howard Dean, and will call on whoever the democratic nominee is to carry on Dean's message. Here is what my candidate has to say on the matters at hand.

http://www.deanforamerica.com/press/environment/2003/10/21/renewable_energy/

Invest in Renewable Energy Sources

Replacing dirty, inefficient power production with clean, renewable energy sources has several economic and non-economic benefits which are not captured in the current pricing regime. As a result, renewable resources often do not look cost competitive, even when they are the best investment we can make in our future. To help overcome these marketplace distortions, Governor Dean's proposes to:

Create a Renewable Portfolio Standard 20% by 2020. Despite a bipartisan plea from 53 Senators, the GOP leadership in Congress, buckled under to oil and gas interests and rejected calls to require that our nation generate 10% of its electricity from renewable sources. Governor Dean will put the interests of Americans ahead of special interests and require that our nation generate 20% of its electricity from renewable sources by 2020. To ensure efficient and flexible implementation, Dean will create a renewable energy credit trading system.

Require More American Biofuels. Governor Dean will require that every gallon of the US, on average, contain 10% American biofuels like ethanol and soy-diesel. As with the renewable energy requirement, Dean will implement a biofuels credit trading system to allow the market to determine where biofuels can be most efficiently used.

Boost Wind Energy Transmission. To tap this massive wind energy potential of the Plains, Governor Dean will work with state and local governments, renewable generators and transmission utilities to breakdown regulatory barriers, eliminate transmission capacity deficiencies and identify possible transmission investments that could jumpstart new renewable generation

Create a Solar Power Tax Credit. Governor Dean will boost demand for solar technology in the near-and long-terms by implementing a consumer tax credit for residential solar power and increasing federal support for R&D into solar technologies to reduce the cost of solar cells.

Extend the Production Tax Credit for More Renewables. Governor Dean will extend the Production Tax Credit, which expires at the end of the year. Dean will also expand the tax credit to cover more types of renewable power generation including geothermal, solar and biomass.

Invest in Renewable Energy and Efficiency as Part of the Fund to Restore America. Governor Dean's economic plan calls for a $100 billion investment in America over two years: the Fund to Restore America. Dean will encourage states to dedicate a portion of the Fund to investments in renewable generation and in supplemental transmission capability needed to spark new renewable generation.


http://ue.blog-city.com/read/429480.htm

Dean: Blame Bush for Salmon Toxins

DES MOINES, Iowa -- "Not only is President Bush responsible for Mad Cow Disease, but now he's responsible for the complete and irreversible holocaust of farm-raised salmon," says Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean. "Not only do the PCB's found in these salmon pose a risk of cancer to the population, but the PCB's also impair fetal brain development. All of this could have been avoided if President Bush would have followed the Kyoto policy."

A report from the Institute for Health and the Environment in the Jan. 9 issue of Science revealed that, "14 different chemical contaminates pesticides are higher in farmed salmon than in wild salmon," according to Dr. David O. Carpenter. Even though polychlorinated biphenyl (PCB) has been banned in the U.S. for over three decades, it is the contaminate most responsible for toxicity found in farm-raised salmon.

"President Bush is a proven failure in the area's of Agriculture & Environment. This is just one more example."

As a result of Dean's latest statement, the Union of Iowa Farmers has officially decided to endorse Dean and pledge their full support. "I like his hawkishness," said Farmer Brown.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

101. And

where exactly did ex-candidate Dean say this particular wind farm should be sited and why?

[babzilla]

109. What does Dean have to do with it anymore?

I'm asking what Kerry has to say about wind-farming in MA.

He seems to be straddling the fence when it comes to his own state creating renewable resources.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

113. Where does your ex-candidate think this should be sited and why?

And what does the siting of this particular project have to do with who should be elected President?

[babzilla]

132. what Kerry thinks about siting windfarms is germaine to the topic

you are the one who posted this topic, presumably as an example of Kerry's strong environmental credentials.

Don't try to turn the topic onto Dean when the candidate who you believe should be elected president is the one proposing a salmon czar instead of funding the scientific studies advocated by the Sierra Club which are essential to solving this issue.

The CapeCod windfarm project is another example of Kerry's tendency to fold on an issue when it hits too close to his politically expedient base.

http://www.hillnews.com/news/061803/kerry.aspx

Wind farm is an issue for Kerry

By Sam Dealey

A renewed plea by presidential hopeful John Kerry (D-Mass.) to redouble efforts at using renewable energy has elicited criticism that the senator has failed to push adequately for such innovations in his own backyard.

Kerry is in the spotlight on the issue because he is a major Democratic presidential candidate and a veteran advocate for renewable energy. The senator and his family summer on the Cape.

His equivocal stance on the project has drawn fire from some critics, including several longtime supporters.

“Kerry is the one who really needs to be called out on this stuff,” said Kert Davies, research director of Greenpeace. “He’s been pretty mum so far. We don’t know where he stands.”

more...

[Feanorcurufinwe]

139. He thinks it should be a scientific, not a political decision.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

143. *cough* NIMBY*cough*

[Feanorcurufinwe]

146. NIMBY - the siren song of the anti-environmental forces.

Let's not look at the science - environmental impact statements are a waste of money - and anyone who says otherwise is a NIMBYist.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

161. And windfarms are anti-environmental?

More like anti-view for rich folks.


Kerry summers there right? Probably a coinky-dink.

[babzilla]

149. he should let his campaign spokeswomen know about that

"A huge proposed wind farm on Horseshoe Shoal, seven miles off Nantucket Island, has met with fierce resistance, including from some of Kerry’s well-connected constituents and neighbors, who look askance at the idea of peering at a 130 whirling turbines from their luxurious vacation retreats.

Some residents in nearby Cape Cod and Martha’s Vineyard, replete with well-heeled castaways and summer vacationers, say the wind farm would mar the view of the sound.

Kelly Benander, a spokeswoman for Kerry’s presidential campaign, said the senator is “waiting to hear about the results from the environmental impact statement.”

She said he will announce his decision when he sees the results. Benander declined to say whether Kerry would endorse the plan if the environmental impact studies turn out favorably for the massive project, known as Cape Wind.

Vocal opponents are not waiting for such results. They include retired CBS anchorman Walter Cronkite, who has a home in Martha’s Vineyard, and members of the Kennedy family.

Energy Management Inc. (EMI), a renewable energy firm, sponsors the project. When up and running, the farm’s turbines would produce 75 percent of the Cape and island’s electricity with no pollutant emissions, waste discharge or water consumption."

Sounds like there is at least a little bit of political decision making here.

Mr. Finger-in-the-wind strikes again.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

151. So waiting for the EIS is not relying on science?

lol

[babzilla]

155. no, but declining to say whether he would support it

if the EIS report supports it doesn't sound too good for this particular windfarm.

Why not come out with the statement that if the EIS says it is safe, Sen. Kerry will support it?

Not to mention the jobs it would create, what's the problem?

Is he for wind energy or not? I guess it depends on whos yacht or whos view is put out by the project.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

159. Your disingenuous attacks aren't fooling anyone.

We all know what Kerry's real position is, and we all know Kerry is 100 times the friend of renewable energy your failed candidate ever even pretended to be.

[babzilla]

164. please, enough with the disingenuous fooling accusations.

We are discussing Kerry here, no matter how much you want to bring Dean into it, Dean is not at issue any longer.

From now on, the discussion is about Kerry and his plans and pledges for renewable energy.

I find it puzzling that Kerry isn't promoting the proposed wind farms in his own backyard while he claims to be a leader in this matter.

It is another example of Kerry saying one thing and doing another, which is what genuinely worries me about a Kerry candidacy.

No fooling.

[polpilot]

13. Dam it!!!!! Dam it!!!!! Dam it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get the picture. I am 'for' salmon but 'against' actually doing anything. Iraqis and salmon have the benefit of the Kerry legacy.

[littlejoe]

19. Iraqi's and salmon will both be better off, as will you.

[Rose Siding]

177. I may be ok but

your assessment of Iraqi well being may be a tad too absolute-

http://www.oceansideforpeace.org/iraqichildren.htm

[waylon]

12. Oh this is frickin wonderful, what next..

Wait, let me think on this. Here is the scenario

Blow the dams, energy costs rise DRASTICALLY, farms fail for lack of irrigation, floods wipe out houses, farms, entire communities, and poor folks freeze in the winter. But.....the salmon get to go upstream another few miles! Sounds like a great idea, dont it?!!!

Yeah, this is tops on my list for Idaho. Why not just kick everyone out and expand Yellowstone? I hear California is a MUCH better place to live <smirk>

[reddouglasfir]

14. In reality the dams will never be totally removed

Breaching only means removing a portion of the dam.

THE OTHER PORTION JUST STAYS THERE.

[waylon]

20. Who told you that???????

Make no mistake about it, the effort is to remove the dams, completely!

Liberty taken with the quote.....

from our heralded leader Ronald Raygunn

Mr and Mrs Low Income, Farmer, Idaho Resident....Tear down that dam!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

16. Did you read the article?

It doesn't sound like it. :shrug:

[littlejoe]

21. Unfortunately , Fear, some feel no need. Information only gets

in the way of their prejudices.

[waylon]

25. Are we talking about Kerry or what the end goal is?

I dont give a crap what Kerry plans, I am more concerned with the overall salmon recovery effort. Kerry is no more involved in that effort than you are. Politicians, and supporters, tend to remain ignorant and rely on talking points.

The effort is and has always been to remove the dams.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

26. We're talking about reality

not fantasies of environmentalist conspiracies.

[waylon]

32. Exactly... the reality is

that the dams are in danger. For once, lets support a "truly" endangered species.

Breach the dams, starve us out!


Id rather not let a special interest group starve my neighbors out of house and home, but Im funny that way!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

39. You are right about humans being an endangered species.

But demonizing environmentalists is not going to reverse that trend.

[waylon]

46. Im not demonzing them.....

Im asking them to be fair. As alwasy, studies on this issue tend to reveal FACTS that support the position of those who pay for the study. You dont have to look to hard to see the relationship between the salmon industry and the environmental groups supporting this "breach" of Idahoans. Special interest money is flowing in the enviro groups are all too happy to help.

What will reveerse that trend is common sense and someone who will STOP the assault on Idaho. We have enough problems, thank you.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

48. The 'assault on Idaho'? By Idaho environmentalists?

[waylon]

53. Yes, Idahoans...the people.... we live here too ya know!

Between the Yellowstone issue, the dams, Frank Church wilderness and corporate farming....WE are an endangered species.

I think WE could all do with a few less fly fishing activist wannabe's from "somewhere else" telling us how they can improve our state for THEIR benefit!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

60. Well, I'm in Montana by 30 miles so I guess I'm from 'somewhere else'

lol

One more time, I agree with you about humans being an endangered species, so please stop pretending I don't. Where we differ is in the solutions.

[waylon]

66. No, where we differ is on common sense

Practical solutions involve farm raised salmon, fish ladders that work, cutting back natives NO LIMIT harvest.

Those are solutions! Turning my state into a poverty stricken playground for granolas and special interests is NOT a solution!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

68. I like those some of those ideas.

Why assume that anyone who disagrees with you lacks common sense and is unwilling to look at the available options?

Is that the way to reach common ground?



Just who is it that wants to "turn your state into a poverty stricken playground for granolas and special interests" ?? Link? Reference?

[waylon]

85. I dont......these options arent new

This debate has been going for a hell of alot longer than this thread has! The alternatives to full scale anihilation of our economy have been on the table for some time (Yes, I do know that statement is another logical fallacy) The question is, CAN we find common ground? To date, the dam breachers havent waivered....Im not hopeful!


empahsize CAN

[Feanorcurufinwe]

88. So you admit that your own position is illogical?

Looks like we've found some common ground after all.

[waylon]

98. My lashing out at special interests were unfair......but

That doesnt make my assertions any less valid. I tend to get carried away when I see my state turned into a tourist playground, or an "enterprise" for yet another special interest group.

My apologies for taking logical liberties!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

105. Lashing out at 'special interests' - as in environmentalists? OK

You've made it clear where you stand.

[waylon]

118. No as in the salmon industry.....

Unfortunate isnt it? Its hard to choose between corporate interests and the enviromental groups, isnt it? Welcome to my world.

But when it comes down to families losing their livelihood, I will STAND!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

127. Simply presenting one false choice after another

particularly when you admit yourself that they are false choices, is not a persuasive argument.

[waylon]

130. What false choice? What admission?

Because I used inflammatory language to describe a group doesnt qualify as a "false choice" does it?

I called environmentalists a name, does that mean my entire arguement is invalid?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

142. To answer your questions

The false choice: "Its hard to choose between corporate interests and the enviromental groups, isnt it?" (post 118) In other words, the false choice between jobs and the environment.

The admission: in post 85, you admitted your illogic. Have you admitted to ALL of the false logic you've used? Of course not, that would take more time than the original flawed arguments.

[waylon]

150. Nice try, but Im not entirely unfamiliar with your games

Its not a "false choice" (its actually called a false dilemma. There is middle groud and I have outlined those options (some of them). Unfortunately, neither the environmentalists nor the salmon industry (and apparantly you either) will waiver. It shouldnt be about jobs and the environment, but special interests are doing everything they can to make it such a choice. I am trying to offer other solutions.

I admit to a liberal use of inflammatory language in a couple of posts. Please tell me you have more to your argument than pointing out how unfair it is to use the term "granola" in describing environmentalists.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

163. Yes you've outlined some options, I said I agreed with some of them,

and you ignored my response and pretended I was espousing some other extreme position that you made up for me.

[waylon]

166. What response did I ignore? All you put forth were attacks on me

What response would you like me to respond to? What extreme position did I unfairly attribute to you?

[littlejoe]

71. Granolas? Do you have any more cute little insults to hurl at

environmentalists?

[waylon]

104. This isnt about environmentalists, its about money

Unfortunately, environmentalists get caught up in the middle. My reference to granolas was "lashing out". For that, I apologize. I live here so I tend to regard this as more than an intellectual exercise or a high minded cause.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

110. So you were insulting BANKERS with your 'granolas' comment?

:eyes:

[waylon]

121. No, i was insulting uninformed environmentalists.

[Exgeneral]

184. You don't think govt subsidies for corporate farming

such as aa vastly different ( aka way lower) price for water, relaxed environmental regulation, and resulting phosphate pollution of the water table, and depleting of the soil, in short overall environmental ravages, and creation of an unsafe food supply to boot,

You don't think that THESE environmental issues are important to your state? They ultimately effect YOU in your tract house in Pocatello.

It ain't the fly fishermen that are your problem, mac.

[sandnsea]

24. I must have salmon

Seriously, half my business is dependent on salmon fishing or direct salmon sales. The plans to remove the dams include replacing that power with other power. Only 1 of the dams has anything to do with irrigation and a buyout of that corporate farmland is included in the plan. Those 4 dams can be removed with absolutely no adverse affect to Idaho family farmers, but they can provide an enormous economic gain for the salmon fishing and recreation industries all the way from the Pacific coast up to where the salmon spawn. This is a good plan for the Pacific Northwest all the way around.

[waylon]

30. Oh sooo wrong........

I sympathize with your economic interests. Towards that end, I will try to help you understand the issue a little better.

"The plans to remove the dams include replacing that power with other power."

Answer: At what cost and who will be most affected?

"Only 1 of the dams has anything to do with irrigation and a buyout of that corporate farmland is included in the plan."

Answer: This is just WRONG. Between irrigation, power, and diversion, each dam regulates or contributes to the overall water supply and life in Idaho, particularly farming. Im not a farmer, but the irrigation canal running behind us is not only necessary for us, and everyone downstream, but is also habitat for a myriad of waterfowl, fish, and a water supply for other animals. You REALLY want to try to take that away from us?

"Those 4 dams can be removed with absolutely no adverse affect to Idaho family farmers, but they can provide an enormous economic gain for the salmon fishing and recreation industries all the way from the Pacific coast up to where the salmon spawn."

Answer: You dont live here, do you? The enormous economic gains you speak of, dont apply to all, do they? Do you eat potatos???? Do you care if farms go broke??????


"This is a good plan for the Pacific Northwest all the way around."

Answer: Unless of course, you are not vested in the salmon industry. Otherwise, you lose!!



Special interest rears its ugly head!

[sandnsea]

57. Everybody wins

Any time we can meet the needs of our society and the environment, we all win.

My point is that this is not the farmers against the environmentalists who just want to save the pretty fish. It's two competing economic interests. The salmon industry supports an enormous economy including guides, bait & tackle manufacturing, stores, rv parks, motels, restaurants, boat manufacturing, boat sales, clothes & gear, canning & direct sales, advertising and promotion of all of this, probably more I haven't thought of. These dams have destroyed 90% of Idaho's salmon and steelhead population. Can you imagine the boon to Idaho's economy with that kind of increasing in salmon & steelhead? Not to mention the rest of the Pacific Ocean and Columbia/Snake River system.

Power is not that big of a deal.
"The impact on household electric rates will vary by utility. A report in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer in January 1999 stated that the effect of lower Snake dam removal on an average Seattle household's power bill probably would be less than $1 per month. Utilities that buy a greater share of their total power from BPA would see a higher increase, from $2 to $5 per month. Utilities that buy a lesser share from BPA, such as Tacoma City Light, would see a smaller increase. If the region chooses, it would be possible to adjust these rate effects for greater equity."

"The cost of replacing the dams' output from these clean sources is only slightly higher than the cost of replacing it on the open energy."

"There is no flood control replacement cost. These four dams provide no flood control. They are "run-of-the-river" dams, which do not store water."

"Only Ice Harbor Dam, of the four lower Snake dams, provides irrigation. Thirteen corporate farms pump irrigation water from the Ice Harbor pool, irrigating about 37,000 acres." "The Army Corps estimates the annual cost of changes to allow water withdrawals from the restored river at $20 million per year. Since the market value of this farmland is estimated at only $11 million per year, a buyout at that value is the least-cost mitigation option."

This is totally doable and it should be done. The benefits far outweigh any perceived damage.

http://www.idahorivers.org/salcasefor.htm

[waylon]

65. Failed to mention a few things.....

I agree its not about one vs the other... Its about accomodation.

"These dams have destroyed 90% of Idaho's salmon and steelhead population. Can you imagine the boon to Idaho's economy with that kind of increasing in salmon & steelhead? Not to mention the rest of the Pacific Ocean and Columbia/Snake River system."

As you know, the commercial harvesting of salmon isnt done in streams or small rivers with the exception of sport fisherman. What you are seeking is spawning ground, correct? A boon to our economy you say? Im quite sure YOU would benefit but, would I??



"Power is not that big of a deal."

As I stated in earlier posts, studies reflect the opinion of those that financed them, not reality. Im quite sure that power isnt an issue to you, until it affects YOUR livelihood.



"There is no flood control replacement cost. These four dams provide no flood control. They are "run-of-the-river" dams, which do not store water."

This is just freakin WRONG!
......."A decision to retain the four lower Snake dams will have significant ramifications for upriver water users and result in legal battles pitting the federal government against the State of Idaho and irrigators. This stems from the fact that any alternative recovery plan will almost certainly have to rely on a large volume of upstream water to improve in-river migration conditions and cool water temperatures."
Need I say more?




"Only Ice Harbor Dam, of the four lower Snake dams, provides irrigation. Thirteen corporate farms pump irrigation water from the Ice Harbor pool, irrigating about 37,000 acres." "The Army Corps estimates the annual cost of changes to allow water withdrawals from the restored river at $20 million per year. Since the market value of this farmland is estimated at only $11 million per year, a buyout at that value is the least-cost mitigation option."

So, buy out the farmers.... that is the answer? And, this doesnt account for ANY upstream irrigation or flood control factors. Drain MY canal?? sure.... grandpa wont mind, he will help YOUR business. Why does he need all that water anyway, who eats wheat and potatos?

[sandnsea]

73. Do YOU live in Idaho???

We used to go from Montana TO Idaho for steelhead on the Clearwater. Hello??? That's YOUR economy.

"I'm quite sure that power isn't an issue to you"

Again, hello??? I LIVE here, I USE Bonneville power.

"upriver water users" "Thirteen corporate farms"

Need I say more?

[waylon]

94. Yes I do live HERE... and how do your "visits" here make you a resident?

And no, "tourists" are not the entire economy. Commercial fisherman you say?

So you use Bonneville power, great... Im sure you will be plenty warm and well paid while WE go broke.

"upriver water users" "Thirteen corporate farms"

Need I say more?

No, you need to learn more. Upriver users means me, and my neighbors, and the water we depend on. The 13 corporate farms is a fallacy. Do you honestly think that flows downstream dont affect flows upstream? I know you would like it all to yourself but we kindof depend on it. And since WE live here, if you dont mind, can we have some?








Special interests at it again.....




The salmon industry will benefit substantially from restoration of Snake River salmon. A preliminary DREW report indicated the sportfishing benefit will be in the range of $293 million to $452 million per year. The commercial fishing benefit was estimated at $172 million per year in another preliminary report, and the non-fishing recreation benefit at $322 million to $548 million per year. Forthcoming DREW reports will analyze tribal economic benefits and U.S.-Canada Treaty benefits, which are not included in the numbers above.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

99. Rivers don't stop flowing, and fish don't stop swimming

when they reach the state line -- that is, if there are any fish.

[waylon]

102. Neither do special interests.....

Can we apply our understanding of the bush corporate elitism to this issue? Just because enviro groups support/fund this, doesnt mean it makes sense or is any less corrupt. In fact, its "necessary" to understand where the money comes from on this if we are to have a clear picture of their intent.

http://www.idahorivers.org/salcasefor.htm

The salmon industry will benefit substantially from restoration of Snake River salmon. A preliminary DREW report indicated the sportfishing benefit will be in the range of $293 million to $452 million per year. The commercial fishing benefit was estimated at $172 million per year in another preliminary report, and the non-fishing recreation benefit at $322 million to $548 million per year. Forthcoming DREW reports will analyze tribal economic benefits and U.S.-Canada Treaty benefits, which are not included in the numbers above.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

111. Support/fund WHAT? the strawman you've presented?

[waylon]

120. Its a strawman if its incorrect....

Are you saying the enviro groups DONT fund this effort? Are you saying the salmon industry DOESNT fund this effort?

What strawman are you referring to. I have to assume that your post is either incomplete or that I've missed something.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

129. Fund what effort?

[waylon]

136. Ok, now I see the problem....

The debate is whether to breach the dams. Refer to post #1 for more information.

The question I asked was, who is funding that crusade? (to breach the dams in case you have forgotten again)

The environmental groups, heavily funded by the salmon industry, have been working towards breaching the dams for some time.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

147. Since Kerry and Edwards both agree with you, what's the problem?

:shrug:

[waylon]

153. I would hope nothing, but for the enviro lobby

Between the 2, I would trust edwards more. Kerry's vote depends on which way the wind blows, or the money in this case.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

160. So vote for Edwards if you feel that way.

:shrug:

[waylon]

162. My vote doesnt count

Kerry owns a home up here, aside from being a front runner. And, Idaho has voted D since 60 something. My only hope is convincing others.

[sandnsea]

134. Totally irrational

"well paid while WE go broke."

I just listed all the economic benefits of the salmon and steelhead industries. That's FOOD. Just like potatoes. In YOUR state. What makes you think you're going to go broke?

Water. If those dams created artificial water flows in Idaho, then that water isn't YOURS to begin with.

Special interests. :eyes: Me and my fifty bucks to the Kerry campaign. Wohoo, what a special interest. My guide and charter and rv clients will get a kick out of knowing they're special interests. That's too funny for words.

Those 13 corporate farms, now there's a special interest. There's too damn many Republicans in Idaho. That's the problem.

[waylon]

140. And thank you......

for listing the economic benefits your group has contrived. Im sure those figures will be of much comfort to the small farmers up here who will lose their water rights because they can no longer afford to compete with corporate farms AND the salmon industry.

Dams dont CREATE artificial water flows (laugh). Did you honestly think I would buy that crap? Dams restrict flows allowing for flood control and irrigation by regulating the water volume, and path. The water, WHEN its here, is here. We would like to use it...is that OK or does it belong to you?

So you are technically NOT a commercial fisherman... good for you. THEY are the sole source of the depleted salmon stocks. Sport fishing is a good thing, should be encouraged. After all, its not YOUR salmon, its OUR salmon.


13 corporate farms, 13 thousand family farms...too many out of towners is Idaho! THAT is the problem

[Feanorcurufinwe]

144. If you don't think other Americans should be allowed to visit Idaho

why don't you start a secession movement?

[sandnsea]

152. Science doesn't support this

Those dams are the cause of the depleted salmon stocks, NOT commercial fisherman. That link I gave you has studies that show the salmon are being lost in the river, not out in the ocean.

"Dams restrict flows allowing for flood control and irrigation by regulating the water volume, and path." First, those dams are not flood control dams, they're power dams. Second, if you have water because it's been restricted by a dam, it's artificial. Any water that is in Idaho is yours to use. A dam doesn't stop water from flowing from the creeks and streams and on down into the Snake.

The businesses I gave you aren't contrived from any group. I don't think you get it. Those businesses are MY clients. I stick up a web site and help them promote their businesses all around the world. They're mom and pop operations, just like those farmers in Idaho. I know how much salmon and steelhead fishing contribute to economies because I LIVE it, every single day. I've never been to Washington D.C. and wouldn't know how to lobby if I ever got there.

And oh sweetie, don't play the out-of-towner game with me. I lived in Montana. My motto was "gut shoot 'em at the border". Fishing was just as big an industry in Montana as it is in Idaho as it is on the coasts of the Pacific Northwest.

If we can figure out a way to get the salmon and steelhead running again, it would be good for everybody.

[waylon]

154. What business are you in?

"I stick up a web site and help them promote their businesses all around the world."


Whats the name if you care to share it?

[waylon]

157. Let me clarify....

SINCE the dams have been up, commercial fishing has been the cause of depleted stocks. You must agree with me on that, no?

First, whether you CALL them flood control dams or not, does not affect what they do. Terminology aside, they regulate flows and that regulation permits irrigation canals and flood control. (Its a multi purpose kinda thing) Second, I dont care how you characterize the water that resides in, and has been supplied by Idaho, it aint YOURS!

What businesses did you GIVE me? I missed catch that part. What are they, what do they do, what are their names?

Im glad you recognize how much money the salmon fishing industry is worth. I too know what they bring to the table, so to speak.

Just because you lived in Montana doesnt make you an authority. And dont call me sweetie! Dont that a few guided float trips on the Madison are even close to the economic power of commercial fishing. Its not even close!


Its hilarious to me when someone who once lived somewhere near the general area that borders a portion of part of the state of Idaho wants to jump in and straighten things out for us. We thank you to keep your legislation to yourselves.

[sandnsea]

165. It's NOT commercial fishing

It's not. I live on the Oregon coast. Commercial fishing is NOT the primary driver of our economy. Not anywhere near. It's sport fishing and the idustries related to that.

Anglers spent over $700 million in Oregon in 2001, with an associated impact on state level personal income of about $300 million. About 1/3 of this is salmon angling. I don't think it includes all the related businesses, like restaurants, rv parks, etc., that just wouldn't be there at all if it weren't for salmon fishing.

According to a report on the economic impact of fishing restrictions on Oregon's salmon trolling fleet prepared for the Oregon Coastal Zone Management Association, commercial salmon fishing is expected to generate $4 million in personal income in 1998.

Idaho can have its share of salmon and steelhead sportfishing too. And it would be every bit as beneficial to Idaho's economy as 13 corporate farms.

And I have NO idea what my business has to do with anything. I've told you what I do, who my clients are. Got an RV park in your town? It's them, people like them. Those people who pay property taxes, contribute to the community, are the backbone of the country. It's NOT just farmers you know.

[waylon]

172. Good perspective, well researched I should say

Unfortunately, its also very limited. Im happy to see Oregon folks make so much off the sport fishing industry but dont fool yourself, the breaching effort is not intended to help Idahoans.

Thank you for offering a share of your profits but if its up to us, and it should be, we'd like to keep things as they are.

Your business? It has EVERYTHING to do with your motivations. I asked specifically what you do in another post for other reasons, is that what you mean?

And dont forget about the RV parks contributing tax dollars in MY state. We should have a say in it too. Ya think?

[littlejoe]

17. Appreciate the info. Some people may not feel

that this is an important issue. In fact, most people probably know nothing about this at all.

But it is important to me, and one of the main reasons I'm campaigning for the distinguished senator from Massachussetts.

[robsul82]

62. It's official. John Kerry will say ANYTHING to get elected.

If he does get the nomination and he campaigns here, I'm gonna make him say something really humiliating in front of TV cameras in order to get my vote. And he'll do it too. :)

Later.

RJS

[Feanorcurufinwe]

64. Really?

How are you going to do that? lol

[Padraig18]

74. I'm thinking of aksing him to bark like a basset hound.

Talk about a 'Polaroid moment'! :P

[Feanorcurufinwe]

76. Sorry, a certain ex-Governor already covered that one.

[Scott Lee]

171. Put him in a leather teddy and I'll buy tickets

[Padraig18]

186. No fishnet stockings?

We must dress him in the spirit of the thread...:P

[Zynx]

70. I'm not much of an environmentalist so this doesn't make much sense to me.

[sandnsea]

82. See post #57

And now I've seen every fucking thing. Now Democrats aren't even environmentalists. I see you're a Dean Democrat. Why the hell doesn't it surprise me that if Kerry is for the environment, you're against it.

[slinkerwink]

79. NOW that is the policy that will help change America! Appoint Salmon Czars

instead of 9/11 Czars, or Education Czars...

[Feanorcurufinwe]

83. Being a President for all the people is a complicated job

that means dealing with a multitude of issues. That's why it's important when running to mount a REAL 50-state campaign instead of just falsely bragging that you are going to do so. That's why the voters reject single issue candidates who offer only anger instead of solutions.

[slinkerwink]

90. Dean wasn't a single-issue candidate

and Kerry is ignoring the studies about the dams, and he's appointing a salmon czar---that's silly!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

93. Why did you assume I was talking about Dean?

[slinkerwink]

100. clear reference to Dean here

"That's why it's important when running to mount a REAL 50-state campaign instead of just falsely bragging that you are going to do so. That's why the voters reject single issue candidates who offer only anger instead of solutions."

[Feanorcurufinwe]

107. If the shoe fits.

[Scott Lee]

169. so now you admit it? (infinity)

[Feanorcurufinwe]

176. I admit that slinkerwink thinks that is a description of Dean.

Or, at least, that's what she said.

[Padraig18]

116. Why does Kerry discriminate against Lake Michigan salmon?

Why do Idaho salmon get a 'czar', but Illinois salmon do not? Does Sen. Kerry favor Idaho salmon, for some reason? I think all IL, WI, IN and MI democrats should be aware of this blatant bias!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

125. A brilliant example of incisive reasoning.

[Padraig18]

133. He's ignoring Lake Michigan salmon.

His proposed 'czar' would have nothing to do with them. Are they unworthy of having their own czar, for some reason? Midwestern Democrats would like to know...

[Scott Lee]

170. As a fisherman of Northern Pike, I demand Kerry pay attention

[Exgeneral]

187. What about Lake Superior Salmon

what're THEY, chopped liver?

[waylon]

158. He has a home here... if that means anything

Kerry has a home in Ketchum. Its where all the rich folks live.

[JVS]

182. You mean this guy won't even be Czar of all Salmon?

That really sucks

[Padraig18]

185. No, he'll just be a demi-czar.

Maybe he can take on catfish protection in his free time...

[Exgeneral]

188. only Kerry could appoint a special interest Salmon czar

[library_max]

145. He must be positioning himself

to buy off Ralph Nader with a high-level government job.

:+

[Feanorcurufinwe]

148. A job as what?

Ego in chief?

No thanks.


What does Nader have to do with this?

[library_max]

156. Salmon czar.

A position eminently suited to his talents. If anyone can persuade brainless fish to swim the wrong way up a one-way river, it's Nader.

Okay, okay, I'll leave the humor to NSMA. Sheesh.

[Stuckinthebush]

167. Salmon czar....

I think I had that a few weeks ago at a restaurant here in town. It had a nice mustard sauce and was covered in some kind of greens.

If I remember correctly, the salmon czar was $17.95.

[Scott Lee]

173. This is very possibly the dumbest thread I've ever seen on DU

I'm serious....annals of greatness and all that. Third graders would kill to learn this stuff.

[waylon]

174. You dont live here

I havent read the whole thread, but the issue AINT dumb.

Im serious!

[Forkboy]

175. The issue isn't dumb

but the thread sure is :)

[Exgeneral]

195. NOBODY lives at DU

and dammit , we're making sure!

[Exgeneral]

189. I think the guy who started this thread could do better

in the dumbness department. Don't think we've seen his best work yet.
The primary isn't even over

[dkf]

179. I think this is the most hilarious thread I've ever seen.

Seriously, my stomach still hurts from my uncontrollable laughter.

Padraig you have the patience of a saint!

haha.

[frustrated_lefty]

183. Ok, but really....

who's on first

[Exgeneral]

190. Salmon Czar. Knock knock.

[Rose Siding]

193. hee! Who's there?

candy gram

[Exgeneral]

194. Salmon Czar.

Salmon Czar who?

A: Salmon Czar and salmons aren't ,
but this thread is record setting stupid:P

[RetroLounge]

191. Does my well-loved Wisconsin Walleye get a Czar too?

and how about:

A Pike Pubah?

A Crappie King?

A Perch Pope?

A Musky Maven?

Does Kerry work with the DNR?

Oh yeah, for him, that's the Department of Numbskull Reasoning.

[Exgeneral]

192. It's "walleye caliph"

Czar is reserved for salmon I'm afrid

[Cheswick2.0]

196. how about them blind fish at the bottom of the sea?

I think they need a Czar more than the snotty high priced Salmon do. Why would Kerry ignore the poor blind fish?

[NoCorporatePols]

197. I hope I can be Anchovy Czar

Some greenbacks to the JK coffers should take care of that.

I make my friends order anchovies on their pizza, even if they don't like them.

"Let them eat anchovies", I say !

[Zomby Woof]

206. NoCorporatePols

NoLogo? :think:

[snoochie]

198. I wish this was a joke

*sigh*

[Duder]

199. Kerry's czar...

Salmonenchanted evening.

[hellhathnofury]

200. mmmmm.....Salmon

:puke:

[Exgeneral]

202. Salmon

it's what's for dinner

[Capn Sunshine]

203. So, the issue is settled , then?

Salmon Czar or No salmon czar?

[Cuban_Liberal]

204. I want a 'soybean nematode czar' and a 'corn borer czar'!

Both are major problems in the Midwest, and both corn and beans eclipse salmon by far, in terms of GDP and food consumption.