Hillary (and Dodd) try to disenfranchise Iowa college students.

[geek tragedy]

Basic background: Students from other states who live in Iowa in order to attend college there are eligible to participate in Iowa elections.

Obama supporters are urging college students from out of state to exercise their LEGAL RIGHT to vote in the Iowa caucuses.

Chris Dodd:

http://thepage.time.com/dodd-criticizes-obama-for-caucus-tactic/

and Hillary Clinton's campaign:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7125.html

are saying that these students should not be welcome to participate.

Screw you Chris, and screw you Hillary.

[Cameron27]

1. If it's legal,

then the state of Iowa bears responsibility for any disenfranchisement.

[geek tragedy]

7. They're saying that students should be discouraged

from exercising their right to vote.

Just like Republicans do.

[Ravy]

15. No, they are saying they should vote only in their state's primary/caucus. Not both. nt

[sandnsea]

24. They can vote where they choose

It's up to them and always has been and the Clintons know it. They are trying to disenfranchise voters which is a Republican tactic.

[Ravy]

26. Disenfranchisement comes if they are allowed to vote twice.

I have no problem with them voting in Iowa if they are registered to vote there. But you should only vote in one primary.

[geek tragedy]

34. Dodd and Clinton don't want them to register in Iowa. n/t

[Ravy]

45. I didn't read where it said that...

I think they should register and vote wherever they can claim that they live (only one place).

If your interpretation is correct, then we are in agreement. I just am reading it the other way.

[sandnsea]

47. It's Republicans who use that argument

to pretend people are going to vote twice. Nobody is telling college students to vote twice. It's Rovian politics to suggest otherwise.

[Ravy]

55. That isn't entirely true.

In national elections, there are safeguards against voting twice. It is a crime.

I doubt that it holds for democratic party primaries. Who gets to vote is pretty much up to the party. Some states allow independents to vote, some don't. Also, it isn't done on a specific day as a national election is (speaking of the democratic nominating process).

If what you are saying is true, Obama should (and may, I haven't seen it) point it out in his literature. Changing voting residence may have legal implications for scholarships, running for office, etc.

[sandnsea]

62. Spoken like a true Republican

Don't crawl into the gutter with the Clintons. You'll be ashamed in the morning.

[Ravy]

80. You think name calling helps you candidate? Think again. nt

[aquart]

68. What???

[H2O Man]

72. There is a

history of college students fighting for the right to vote in the community/state they reside in for a significant period of their lives. The history includes case law that defines their right to register in the community/state where they go to college. Historically, and in the cases that went to court, those who opposed the students' rights were republicans.

[H2O Man]

63. I agree.

This is the tactic of those candidates who do not appeal to college students.

[Cameron27]

18. Sorry Geek, I didn't read it correctly,

but if it's not illegal, then Obama can do it. But this is also true:

"Yepsen wrote that the out-of-state college students’ participation would be legal, but said he isn’t certain “whether it’s fair, or politically smart."

We'll see how it goes.

[geek tragedy]

42. How is following the law not fair? n/t

[Cameron27]

48. If Iowa isn't their primary state for voting,

then it's unfair. Are they allowed to vote in the Iowa caucus and again in their home state primary?

[iconocrastic]

53. For HRC, what is fair is whatever helps her.

If it doesn't help her, it's unfair.

Is that too difficult to accept?

So just leave her alone.

[Cameron27]

56. Dodd too eh?

[sandnsea]

22. Of course it's legal

Democrats have fought Republicans repeatedly to keep it legal. This is voter disenfranchsement, pure and simple. And they're willing to do it to keep Obama from winning. That's the kind of politics Obama is trying to end. I'm sick of it.

[msongs]

2. clinton should follow obama and import thousands of people to Iowa to vote for her nt

[geek tragedy]

6. Students who live there 9 months out of the year

and have the legal right to vote?

Why do Clinton supporters hate Democracy?

[Ravy]

20. One person. One vote.

They should vote in whatever state they are registered, only. IMHO.

[geek tragedy]

33. They can register in Iowa. n/t

[Ravy]

49. I've no problem with that, as long as they don't also try to

vote in their home state. I don't know how dilligently those things are checked... but I am sure some scholarships might be in jeopardy if you changed your legal residence out of some cities/counties/states. Otherwise, every Iowa student would just legally move to Iowa to get in-state tuition.

[aquart]

67. Excellent. Are they?

How many of them will be casting votes in home state primaries?

Are you saying they are USUALLY part of this process?

[madrchsod]

51. why? because the race in iowa is getting close

and hillary does`t have the youth vote.
if both of these were in her favor you would hear anything about this.

[madrchsod]

50. obama importing people into iowa?

unless iowa is a foreign country ,he could`t "import" people to iowa..........

[LeftCoast]

3. Oh never mind

Minds will not be changed on this thread...that is a certainty.

[Cameron27]

5. I know the feeling.

[Colobo]

4. Gobama!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. May I Ask You A Serious Question?

DSB

[Colobo]

85. Yes

[MadBadger]

8. I go to the University of Wisconsin-Madison

and I'm at school for 8 months of the year. I am home in NJ for four months. Dont tell me that people who go to school in Iowa shouldnt be allowed to vote there. They reside there for a majority of the year, and should be able to vote there.

[geek tragedy]

10. People from Arkansas shouldn't be allowed to run for office in New York

I guess Hillary should be out of a job.

[MadBadger]

11. THere should be more strict rules for being a Senator

She shouldnt have been allowed to run.

[geek tragedy]

12. New York elections ought to be for New Yorkers. n/t

[Clintonista2]

13. But let me geuss- Illinois elections can still be for Hawaiians right?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[rufus dog]

17. completely ridiculous comparison

You make a general statement regarding residents of different states and compare them to students paying tuition to a Iowa school, who currently spend the majority of time there, who will in one way or another be tied to the state for their entire adult life.

[Clintonista2]

23. What the hell are you going on about?

I responded to a post by the other dufus who implied that Clinton shouldn't have been allowed to run for the senate in NY because she's from Arkansas, ignoring the fact that his candidate is from Honolulu yet ran for the Illinois senate. Try reading what I was responding to before attacking me, otherwise you end up looking rather foolish. Thanks.

[MadBadger]

29. How many years did Obama live in Illinois before he ran for senate?

And how many years did Hillary live in NY before she ran?

Thats what I thought. You have some nerve for calling people a dufus. SOme nerve.

[Clintonista2]

35. Why change the parameters of your original statement?

So now it's all about *how long* they've lived in the state? It's not longer about what state they are originally from? Gosh, I need updates every 2 minutes just to keep up with your changing argument :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[MadBadger]

36. I never said it was about what state they are originally from

Nice job misrepresenting me though.

[Clintonista2]

43. Nah, you just agreed with somebody who did.

I'll await your next update to see how the argument has shifted :rofl:

[MadBadger]

46. Show me, cuz I have no idea what you're laughing about.

[Clintonista2]

54. Here ya go:

So Geek Tragedy first says:

"People from Arkansas shouldn't be allowed to run for office in New York. I guess Hillary should be out of a job." (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3779635&mesg_id=3779685)

You agree with him, replying to his comment stating: "THere should be more strict rules for being a Senator She shouldnt have been allowed to run." (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3779635&mesg_id=3779689)

Then I point out that Obama is from Hawaii, yet he ran for office in Illinois: "But let me geuss- Illinois elections can still be for Hawaiians right?" (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3779635&mesg_id=3779696)

Let's recap. Geek Tragedy states that people from one state, should not be allowed to run for office in another state. You agree with him. Fairly straight forward. Now, when I point out that your own candidate ran for office in a different state than the one he's from, your argument shifts:

"How many years did Obama live in Illinois before he ran for senate?" (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3779635&mesg_id=3779753)

The original statement, of which you agreed with, had to do with what state a person is *from.* Once you were confronted with (*GASP*) proof of your own hypocracy, the parameters of your argument changed to *how long* a candidate has lived in the state. You apparently have not yet learned that there is a written record of everything you type on DU :rofl:

[MadBadger]

57. Did I say anywhere that "I agree?" Or did I just respond stating my own opinion?

reread and stop using the bush league laughing smiley.

[Clintonista2]

59. Semantics won't help you out on this one. n/t.

[jefferson_dem]

41. He moved to Chicago first in the early 1980s until entering Harvard in the late 1980s.

He moved back again around 1993, I think.

[aquart]

71. 4 years of college ties them to Iowa FOREVER?

Did they know that when they applied?

[ccpup]

28. that's the wonderful thing

about Hating Hillary and supporting 'bama (or someone else): Logic has absolutely nothing at all to do with what you "believe" or the non-stop utter, inane b.s. you spout. It's just full-steam ahead and roll out the red carpet for you on DU!

DU: The Home of Selective Outrage

[Clintonista2]

38. Look at how they've changed the argument.

It no longer has to do with what state your from, it now has to do with HOW LONG you've lived there. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[cali]

27. please tell me you're kidding

because if you're not all your righteous stuff about students being able to vote where they attend college (something I agree with) is nothing but a pile of shit.

[MadBadger]

32. To appropriately represent the views of an entire state

I think you should have to live there for a certain amount of time. College students are voting for somebody to represent them, not actually doing the representing.

[cali]

58. the laws of NY state do not buy your sanctimonious nonsense

and your hypocrisy. Most college students have little vested in the states they attend college in. You know that.

[MadBadger]

60. But some do, and you know that

I personally do not have that much invested in this state's politics, so I get an absentee ballot. But I know plenty of people from out of state who are deeply involved in Wisconsin politics.

[aquart]

73. Jaw on floor.

You actually think that makes sense.

[Clintonista2]

81. Perhaps senators who miss a certain percentage of senate votes should be barred from running again

n/m.

[geek tragedy]

37. I am hoisting the Clinton people on their own petard.

If they're going to complain about college students who spend 75% of the year in Iowa caucusing, then they're hypocrites.

[tritsofme]

66. I guess Bobby Kennedy was just a carpetbagger too, right?

The people voted for her, and that's the bottom line.

[CTLawGuy]

76. nice one!

"People from Arkansas shouldn't be allowed to run for office in New York"

:applause:

[Ravy]

21. Is that where you are registered to vote?

If so, fine. But if you are going to vote where you go to school, and cast another absentee ballot in your home state (if you are registered there) then I have a problem with it.

[MadBadger]

25. Is that even legal?

I dont vote in Wisconsin. I get an absentee ballot from Jersey. But thats just me. I consider myself from Jersey, but others I'm sure consider their home to be where they go to school.

[Ravy]

39. I don't know that where the legalities come in on a caucus/primary.

After all, you are voting for a party nomination, not actually for a public office (directly).

There are things to consider about your voting residence. I know Kit Bond's residence was called into question when he first ran for office in Missouri, because it was thought he switched his voting residence to Georgia (I think) and didn't meet the residency requirements. There are probably some scolarships that require you to be a legal resident of a particular state that might be affected if you changed your voting registration.

But I think you can register right at the Iowa caucuses, so they would not have time to check or invalidate your voting registration in another state.

I dunno. I would just object to someone voting in two different primaries. I know that the spread out primary season can allow it, but actually encouraging people to take advantage of it is not looked at favorably, speaking for me only.

[aquart]

69. Where are you registered?

If you are registered to vote in Iowa, of course you
SHOULD caucus.

If not...

[MadBadger]

77. Ummm, I go to Wisconsin, and Live in Jersey.

No Iowa for me.

[aquart]

82. Which didn't answer the question.

Where are you registered? It's not a problem I ever had to decide because I went to a commuter school.

[MadBadger]

84. Im registered In Jersey.

[cuke]

14. Your subject line reveals your bias

If it was only Dodd doing this, I doubt you'd have started this thread. It's only wrong because Clinton is doing it. If someone else was doing it Clinton, DU would be throwing flowers and candy at them

[Clintonista2]

30. exactly. He put Dodds' name in brackets...

NO BIAS THERE! :sarcasm: :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[cuke]

52. Dodd is a parenthetical

When Dodd does it, it's not so bad

[sandnsea]

16. This is just ridiculous

and some people object to the word "slimeball" in connection with a particular candidate.

Keeping students from voting in their college community is a REPUBLICAN tactic. Democrats have always supported college students voting in their college community.

This is just one more instance of the Clintons twisting a perfectly normal situation into a political attack. If that isn't slimeball, I don't know what is.

[geek tragedy]

44. Republican-lite. Disappointing to see Dodd go there. n/t

[cali]

61. yes indeed. some of us actually think that dehumanizing people

is a lousy idea.

[sandnsea]

74. Some people are slimeballs

They just are.

[Bitwit1234]

19. sO THEY CAN VOTE TWIC E HELL I WISH I COULD.

In their state and in Iowa. I think it should be one or the other. If they vote in Iowa they should not be allowed to vote in their home state. That's only fair.

[ccpup]

31. awesome!

now I can vote in NYC and Los Angeles (where I have homes) and Washington State (where I grew up and still own property).

Very cool. :sarcasm:

[geek tragedy]

40. No, they'd have to register in Iowa.

So, they'd vote in Iowa instead of Illinois.

[tammywammy]

64. While I was in college I knew plenty of people that changed their registration

To the city the university was in. :shrug: And yes, even students that were originally from out of state. I have no problem with students changing their registration to reflect where they live the majority of the year.

And this "they'll vote twice" argument is a lot of bunk.

[ellacott]

75. When I was in college I changed my residency also

I voted in the town where I went to college.

I don't know the registration guidelines for Iowa but it doesn't sound like he's asking them to do anything illegal. This probably wouldn't even be an issue if the caucus were not held on Jan 3rd. when many may be away for the holidays. If the election were held later and they were registered in Iowa(if that's their requirement)it doesn't seem like this would be an issue.

[CTLawGuy]

65. I remember as a student at Dartmouth

the Republicans put lawyers in the Hanover, NH and Durham, NH (home of UNH) polling places. The lawyers were there to challenge the residency of anyone who looked like a student.

Like IA, NH has lax voting laws and you can claim a dorm room as your "residence" for voting. The state approves of that. What would happen is that we with the young Dems would shuttle students to the polls and then they'd stand in a long line. When they got to the front to register, the lawyer would issue a challenge.

It didn't really have an effect other than to force the student to stand in a second long line to fill out an affidavit stating where they lived, etc. They still got to vote, it just took longer. We had to encourage the students to wait out this entire process and not give up and go home.

Personally, I think anyone who is legally allowed to vote is morally allowed to vote and this type of crap that is going on is disgusting.

[1monster]

70. How 'bout the thousands and thousands of out of state college students

who choose to make their college state their home state after graduation?

I went to a very small college and I know of literally hundred of out-of-state students who attended the same college who chose to remain in this state rather than go back to their home state.

It happens often. Refusing to allow them to participate in the political process in their college state is short sighted and discriminatory.

[mckeown1128]

78. This makes me sick...

College students in Iowa HAVE the RIGHT to vote. Hillary and Dodd should be ashamed of themselves. I guess they have taken the policy that if you can't get someone to vote for you condemn and bully them into not voting. So much for democracy.

[ClarkUSA]

79. Meanwhile, Hypocritical Hillaryworld is doing the same thing while attacking Obama for it.

The Obama campaign contends that it’s doing nothing unusual — that Iowa college students have long caucused near their colleges.
And a separate Register news article quoted Iowa Secretary of State Michael Mauro as saying of the Obama instructions: “I think it's playing within the
rules.”

A Hillary Rodham Clinton campaign official said: “We are not courting out-of-staters. The Iowa caucus ought to be for Iowans.”

In fact, Clinton is counting on the support of some out-of-state students attending Iowa universities. Sarah Sunderman of Iowa State University, who was
announced in a news release as a leader of the “Hill Yea” Students Leaders for Hillary, told the Des Moines Register in October that “she will drive back
early from her home in Minnesota to take part in the Jan. 3 caucuses.”

All of you Obama haters can now aim your outrage at St. Hillary or be called Hillaryous Hypocrites.

*crickets*

[Cameron27]

83. That's not the same thing at all.

Clinton's already addressed Politico's story. Her campaign isn't behind this, it hasn't passed out leaflets encouraging students to return, nor has it provided information on how to caucus when they return.

[geek tragedy]

86. It's less the hypocrisy and more the contempt for young voters

and democracy.