Edwards is scaring the shit out of you

[asdjrocky]

Admit it.

My friends, and the rest of you here, it's no secret that I'm a big Edwards supporter. Out of my meager, working class, wages, I even managed to send he a couple hundred bucks his way. (Even DK won me over for a while with his pure Democratic message and he got fifty bucks... ahhh Denny, but that's a story for another day.)

Back to Edwards. I've gotten involved with his campaign in ways I've never gotten involved before, and it's been a kick ass journey so far. I talk to people who want to know about Edwards, and people that don't. I've been called a cheerleader, a rah-rah, and more. I've been called foolish, gullible, and just plain stupid.

Note: See the people now scrambling to find times I was or wasn't called those names, counting each infraction, then running
back here to show me up for the no good dirty rotten liar I am.

Seriously, I'm a grown man. Do you really think that's going to bother me? But have fun. I'm new to all of this, and I can't tell ya all how much of a kick I get out of this internets thingie.

Here's the thing. I'm with Edwards. A lot of people are with Edwards. And that scares the shit out of you.

"He's a snake oil salesman!" Yeah, I hear 'em yelling. Well, I gotta tell ya. I've spent better than three decades now out on my own in this big bad world, and I think by now, I've figured out when someones selling snake oil, and when someone is speaking truth. I've worked in the music industry, the night club industry, the radio industry, for-crying-out-loud, I've worked in the entertainment industry all of my life. This is a place where someone gets a nose for bullshit. Don't try to sell me buddy.

Let me ask you something, you ever work for a grade "A" son of a bitch? That's all of my bosses. You ever see the guy at the front door of the club, the one who decides who's staying, and who's going? That was me for better than 15 years. I know if you're gonna hit, or if you're gonna keep your hands in your pockets at twenty feet. Trust me.

And trust me on this. Edwards is a grade "A" son of a bitch. This is a man that is ready to take his hands out of his pockets. This guys ready to throw a punch. Our punch. The peoples punch.

Here's the thing. I'm with Edwards. More people are everyday. And that just scares the shit out of you, doesn't it?

"What about his Senate record? He's a baaaaaaaad man!" Yeah, I hear em yellin. Yeah, who has a perfect record? Not one of em. None from a red state or blue state, as far as the eye can see. Henry Clay, know your history kids, knew what the Senate was about. Compromise. That's what they do every god damned day there and it would be enough to drive a good person nuts. Why do you think he left? (Boy, can you all imagine the questions I'm going to get on that last sentence?) Edwards was not prepared to waste another term in the Senate, with one compromise after another.

So here's the thing. I'm with Edwards. With all the posts see, that really does scare the shit out of all of you, right?

There's more, but I'm sure only the die hards are with me at this point so I will make it brief.

What about his vote on the war?

Honestly, I can't speak for all of you people, but I was kind of crazy back then. I lost a relative on 9/11, and I really wanted to believe something, anything. We all did. I know, he didn't just vote for it, he sponsored.... blah blah blah. He was new on the job, first term. Only term. And he said he was wrong. Which is about a mile more than anyone has done yet.

Lot's of people have continued to support this lunacy. I guess only they know if they have sleepless nights. If our Reps have blood on their hands, then we all do.

The rest of the world awaits our apology.

More? He talks about corporate coruption. Who else does that? He's been talking about Katrina since he announced his campaign. When was the last time another candidate talked about Katrina? He will start bringing those misused troops home from Iraq so fast, our heads will spin. And more.

Tell me he's wack on his health care. Yeah, try to tell someone who's live most of his life without insurance that Edwards got a, what was it, "pants of fire" rating for saying he'd take health care away from the congress. Are you serious? You, sit down. At least he's talking about it.

Big house, Fortress, bring the rest. We'll talk about it on this here discussion forum. I'll make a pot of coffee, I got all night.

Until Edwards proves me wrong.

We're all with him. 100%.

And that really, really does scare the shit out of you, you, and all of you.


Now, let the fun begin....

[denem]

1. I hope Edwqrds does not prove you wrong but

(yes there has to be a 'but') a trial attorney is like an actor: it's a role. Think Ronald Reagan. You immerse yourself it the details, get every point straight, psyche yourself up and go out to convince the judge and jury. Consistency, case by case, does not concern a trial attorney, only working on those people to get them to agree with you. It's a reasonable background for a politician if you don't mind periodic tunnel vision.

[asdjrocky]

8. He won't prove me wrong.

You know, it's funny, I just knew that would be the very first reply.

Now, how does a working slob like me know this? Simple. I won't let him. Neither will Catchawave. Or JohnLoke, or Frogmarch, or SaraKat... and many others. You'll see him. You'll see OC lay it down for you. And we'll lay it down for Edwards. Stick around. This is gonna be fun.

[denem]

13. (self delete)

[Mythsaje]

20. Or me.

How could you forget Saje in that list?

;)

[asdjrocky]

34. Never forgoten.

I'm seeing so many Edwards supporters here, I couldn't even think of them all!

;-)

[Ninga]

161. Add me to your list sweetie...

:loveya: :loveya:

[tom_paine]

149. Or me.

:hi: Saje.

[Reno.Muse]

69. I like how fear smells on Guiliani and his thousands of dollars of smear ads

aimed at John Edwards at a time when the lying sack of crap msm is telling us it is all about Mrs. Clinton and Guiliani. HAHAHAHAAHAA! I love it!

[JDPriestly]

98. or me, I'm with Edwards. JDPriestly

[Inspired]

122. No, he won't prove us wrong.

Your support for him could have been written by me. It is exactly how I feel. My life has drastically changed since I started supporting Edwards. For the better. It's been a great ride and I won't regret a minute of it....ever.

[Seabiscuit]

153. He won't prove me wrong either. I've watched him carefully since he

first emerged on the national scene during the 2003 runup to the 2004 primaries, and my bullshit detector has always told me this guy's made of integrity and compassion.

And smarts.

He didn't get rich by inheriting some trust fund or by selling his soul to some corporation raping and pillaging the landscape and poisoning people and other animals in its way.

He got rich because (1) he married into a family that was able to help him finance his first big cases as a trial lawyer (malpractice cases, for instance, cost attorneys tons of money up front for expert witness fees both in deposition and in trial, because the clients can rarely afford them, and attorneys just starting out generally can't afford them either), and (2) he worked hard at everything he needed to do to win those big cases against the insurance industry, which I can tell you, as an attorney, have tons of money and time and cynical lawyers to make your life and your client's life as miserable as possible while you're taking them on, and (3) his hard work gained him wide acclaim as the best attorney in his field in his state, so much so that after his first big wave of successes, insurance companies scrambled to make generous settlement offers as soon as they heard his name was on the other side of a claim. Yep. That's how he got rich. By working hard. By being the best he could be every day at work. By upholding a high standard of professional ethics. And by having compassion for his fellow man. The way people should get rich, if they get rich at all.

Yeah, as an attorney I have a lot of respect for the man. And as an attorney I too have developed a very reliable bullshit detector, and this man's no bullshitter. And as a compassionate human being I have a lot of respect for him as another compassionate human being willing to put all his talents and resources to work to make this a better country to live in for everyone.

He's the best and the brightest. We haven't seen his kind on the American political seen since the Kennedy years, and let me tell you as someone who lived through the cold war from start to finish, we desperately need the kind of leadership that this kind of person can provide in this country right now.

[clarence swinney]

195. JFK was loved by most

He was born into low income family near me and like me.
He can be charming. He will not LIE.
He is GOOD.
He truly cares.
He is smart.

He earned his fortune by helping the least amongst us and stomping big corporations.

He will improve the Middle Class.

He will be your friend.

Republican Smear maachine will smear smear but he is squeaky clean so invention will be their course of smear.

Wille Horton pardon--LIE
Gore Credibility Gap-LIE
Kerry Swiftboat-LIE

Edwards=?????

clarence swinney
burlington nc

[Seabiscuit]

239. Yes, JFK was the best President we've had since FDR.

And most people truly loved him because he was truly inspirational. Unlike Clinton, he wasn't just a charade of charisma. The was the genuine article.

Nice to hear you grew up near where JE grew up. JE may yet prove to be the second coming of JFK. If he wins it all, he may preside over the dawning of a new and brighter time in America. And he will be both loved and reviled for it, just as JFK was.

[neutron]

330. Bill Clinton was even better

. No more hefty welfare roles.
. No war.
. Balanced Budget.
. Made America a good name in the world.

[mrbluto]

315. Don't want to dampen your enthusiasm, but...

Don't want to dampen your enthusiasm, but...

Gotta be careful - Edwards is not the messiah.

We should keep in mind what expectations are created.

He's gonna have a tough row to hoe. Republicans aren't just gonna disappear back into the woodwork.

BTW: I agree with your assessment about the smear machine. He's vetted and fairly clean - all they're left to swing at is this haircut bullcrap. (which I wish somebody would put a stake in.)

[neutron]

332. Edwards is Empty Talk

He has a record. Now claims he's changed.

What's he done to show this? What has he done
in the last 4 years except making plans to run
for president?

[mrbluto]

338. This make you happy?

Just pop in and bash a candidate.

I don't have a litany of things he's done - he makes sense; That's very important to me.

What have any of the other contenders done?

You try to make it sound like little elves should lay the ground work for an election. Or one's consultants.

Look - if any normal person had come so close to the presidency and wasn't too old or damaged by the effort then they would consider running again.

But I don't think that's all he's done.

Seems clear to me (from the fact that you've really added nothing to this discussion) that you're content to generate posts that waste the time of people who bother to be considerate.

Looks like you're hoping to spam this forum.

Dialog is the point of democracy.

I can't prove it one way or another right now so it's up to you to ask yourself this question:

Do I really want to have a discussion - or am I just trying to tangle and frustrate the conversation of others?

If you're monkeywrenching the deliberations of others then you are undemocratic.

If you don't agree and aren't at least posting in good faith then I suggest you leave this forum for the sake of your own moral hygine.

buhbye.

[Hieronymus]

33. You're so naive .. don't you know that every politician is an actor?

Hillary puts on a good show, but she has a mouth like a sailor. It's a tough world.

[mrbluto]

314. Not true.

It's not a simple mapping.

Being a politician requires some acting = TRUE

Being a politician is all acting = FALSE

[yellowdogintexas]

127. well one thing is certain, Edwards is helluvalot smarter and sincere than Reagan ever was

and he isn't senile.

smart, savvy, and out for the little guy,what's not to like?

[clarence swinney]

199. Reagan yuk!

(1900-1989)

(Peggy Noonan pay attention)

1.First to turn America into a DEBTOR nation
2. First to increase DEBT faster than growth of national income in eight years
3. First to increase DEBT faster than growth of gdp over eight years
4. First to double the deficit in just eight years
5. First to “almost”: triple the national DEBT in just eight years
6. First to increase SPENDING by 80%--over 8 years.
7. First to SPEND more in eight years than was spent in prior 50 years.
8. First to have “real” INTEREST RATES of 8% after averaging 1% over 35 years.
9. First to keep PRIME INTEREST RATES at 20%.
10.First to over value the dollar to the yen at rate of 262 yen to 1 dollar.
11.First to have served as Governor and increase STATE SPENDING by 112%
12.First to have HOME LOAN INTEREST RATES as high as 16%
13. First to CUT TAXES by 60% for his rich pals
14. First to allow the SAVINGS AND LOAN INDUSTRY to be raided after signing a deregulatory bill and proclaiming “I think we have hit the jackpot”. Come and get it the vaults are unguarded.
15. First to deal with TERRORISTS
16. First to send an AUTOGRAPHED BIBLE to a man he called “The Satan of Terrorists”.
17. First to have an ADMIRAL plead the Fifth Amendment.
18. First to have a stealing, lying, gutless wife abusing MARINE LT. COLONEL plead the Fifth Amendment.
19. First to have a “sitting” CABINET MEMBER INDICTED
20. First to have an ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE INDICTED.
21. First to have an ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE SENT TO PRISON.
22. First to have over 100 MEMBERS OF AN ADMINISTRATION CHARGED WITH CRIMES..
23. First to have more members of his administration charged with crimes than CUMULATIVE TOTAL OF ALL OTHER PRESIDENTS in the twentieth century
24. First to set a record for the LARGEST ONE DAY PERCENTAGE DECLINE in the DOW in history. 10-19-87
25. First to have over $10,000,000 INCREASE IN WEALTH from serving for 8 years as president.
26. First to testify ”under oath” 130 times that ”I DON’T REMEMBER” .
27. First to have an Admiral with a photographic memory testify 128 times “ I DON’T REMEMBER”.
28. First to undergo BRAIN SURGERY a few months after leaving office. No pain no gain.
29. First to, repeatedly, FALSIFY HIS WIFE’S AGE. As tho anyone cared.
30. First to promote his religious faith and never have an ACTIVE CHURCH MEMBERSHIP.
31. First to never use the term JESUS CHRIST in speeches.
32. First to seek GUIDANCE FROM THE STARS not from God
33. First to have had a SHOTGUN WEDDING.
34. First to have worked as a SHILL in Las Vegas.
35. First to call a Stealing, Lying, Psychotic, wife abusing Marine a “LIAR.
36. First to have been OPENLY ALIENATED from his children.
37. First To have served with ALZHIMERS
38. First to have UNEMPLOYMENT AT 10.8% since great depression.
39. First to attack a small unprotected nation with 88,000 inhabitants and 10,000 bb guns then PROCLAIM -“America stands tall again”— “we have whipped the Vietnam Syndrome”-we have defeated communism”. Gosh! What if we had whipped Cyprus?.
40. #1-in FARM FORECLOSURES
41. #1-In BANK FAILURES
42. #1-In SAVINGS AND LOAN FAILURES
43. #1-In Percent increase in PERSONAL BANKRUPTCIES
44. #1-In recorded MISSTATEMENTS
45. #1-In never having a single press conference in which he did not make at least one or more INCORRECT STATEMENTS.
46. #1-In needing a staff person standby during press conferences to tell the press “WHAT HE REALLY MEANT”.
47. #1-In having SERVICEMEN KILLED during peacetime.
48. #1-In largest DROP IN POPULARITY in one week.
49. #1-In being first to HONOR NAZI STORM TROOPERS by calling them” Innocent Victims”
50. #1-In being first to be labeled “BRAIN DEAD AFFABLE DUNCE’ by this writer.
51. First to lie-over and over-to reporters “I DO NOT DYE MY HAIR my barber uses a special shampoo”
52. First to have a wife who ”forced” him to WEAR THREE SUITS in one day
53. First to boast “Not bad for a DUMB GUY who worked only 20 hours per week”.
54. First to have his wife sit nearby and WHISPER ANSWERS to questions
55. First to FALL ASLEEP while the Pope spoke
56. First to invite the Pope to visit the White House and “BRING THE WIFE AND KIDS”
57. First to have his press secretary remove him from the microphone because he could not answer questions. Then, as the reporter
yelled out “answer my question” he replied “MY HANDLERS WON’T LET ME SPEAK”. Quick get the white coat.
58. First 20th Century president to have historians RATE HIM BELOW every president of the 20th except for Richard Nixon. 1994 Poll.
59. First to give us a First Lady with a past reputation for giving the BEST BJ in Hollywood.
60. First to suggest his eldest son undergo PSYCHIATRIC examination
61. First to have been voted in British polls (twice) as the ”MOST FEARED LEADER IN THE WORLD” sic em Rambo.


62. First to serve as Governor on a ”conservative” platform and INCREASE SPENDING BY 112%.
63. First Governor TO INCREASE personal income taxes by 60%, tax increase on cigarettes by 200%, state tax collections by 152%.
64. First to have a Special Assistant say on national TV “sometimes you had to HIT HIM ON THE HEAD with a 2 x 4 to get his attention”
65. First to have his official biographer state on national TV ‘After he was shot in 1981he GOT SLOWER AND SLOWER EACH YEAR. His speech got slower. He deliberated more and he hesitated more when he spoke. He lost his physical quickness and would not make decisions on the spot. It was a very, very slow and steady mental and physical decline”.
66. First to have a POPULARITY RATING OF ONLY 35% after his first two years in office.
67. First president to have been DIVORCED
68. First president to have the Geriatrics Department of a major
university study his behavior and conclude that AFTER THREE YEARS IN OFFICE HE HAD ALZHIMERS.
69. First to have shacked up with love of his life while wife was in hospital giving birth to first child

------------------------------------ THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE-------------------------------------------
Clarence Swinney—Burlington NC.—[e-mail]

[Sam Ervin jret]

227. and all our REPEB. CANDIDATES want to be JUST LIKE GOOD OLE RONNIE

doesn't that say something about their "judgement?"

It totally creeps me OUT!!!

[youngharry]

280. R. Reagan

Send this to Blogger Andrew Sullivan. You hit a bullseye and RR is Andrew"s favorite.

I was hoping for Al Gore, but that isn't going to happen. The next best candidate---by far---is Edwards.

[GMFORD]

194. You are right about the rhetoric used

by trial attorneys. They have to be able to 'sell' their position to the jury/judge by carefully laying out their points, maximizing the points in their favor, minimizing the points that don't look good for their client, heading off arguments they expect the prosecution to use. That makes a trial lawyer a good campaigner.

But what about as president? Then you have to look at the character of the man himself when not on the job. What principles has he followed and has he been willing to devote his time, not just rhetoric, to the advancement of those principles? I say Edwards has good progressive values and has devoted a lot of time to advancing them.

Conclusion: 1) He can win because he is a good trial lawyer.
2) He can govern because he is a good man, an honest man of strong progressive values.

[youngharry]

287. Edwards as trial lawyer

Moreover, Edwards' whole career has been devoted to beating Corporations. He is exactly what we need as this country is no longer of, by and for the people, but of, by and for Corporations. The Constitution has been subverted to the benefit of the Corporations. In order to restore our Democracy, we have to rid the Corporations of their hold on the Presidency and Congress. JOHN EDWARDS IS THE MAN. HE DEFEATED THEM FOR 20 YEARS AND HE WILL DO IT AGAIN FOR AMERICA.

[BREMPRO]

201. his background as a lawyer is valuable to Americans.

He's not acting, I've seen the best acting in the world, and this is not an act. I'm certain he believes what he says and his view of the world is related to a reality i recognize, and not a ideological fantasy. He's using the powers of persuasion akin to "LEADERSHIP" he learned as a lawyer and his background as a Senator, investor, and poverty activist to develop a VISION for a better America. The power of this leadership and vision is what is needed in this country NOW to save us from the fascist imperialist trends we've fallen into. Ronnie Raygun was an actor, using his bully pulpit to pull the wool over our eyes while he empowered corporate and imperial America. John is a progressive who is revealing the illusion behind the curtain, the corruption of money in politics. He's an authentic champion for those who no longer have a voice in our government, namely EVERYONE who doesn't employ a corporate, drug, defense, security lobbyist. A man informed by a working class background, with conviction on progressive causes, and proven powers of persuasion, is gold in my eyes. Add to this his appeal to independents, disaffected Republicans, the south, and fewer negative in the GE, and i'm putting my money on Edwards.

[AlbertCat]

251. WRONG

Lamprey writes:
"a trial attorney is like an actor"


Baloney! Been watching too much TV? Reagan and Thompson ARE actors....and I, having worked in the Motion Picture Industry for decades now, I can safely inform you that you don't have to have a brain to be an actor, but you do to be a lawyer.

Also, my uncle who is a big whoop-dee-doo lawyer in NC and a loyal Bushie, gave a speech at Thanksgiving how he worked on a case with Edwards and how smart and savvy, and knowledgeable he was...."but of course I'm not gonna vote for him."
{My Uncle also told us about a lecture he heard that Hillary gave years ago when she was just a lawyer....how intelligent and solid she was....how much he enjoyed it, so much so he went up and told her so afterwords. "But of course I'm not gonna vote for her".
What the hell is wrong with Conservatives??? To know 1st hand how qualified these candidates are, but like some brainwashed "Party 1st!" Commie, will instead vote for Giuliani??? Huckabee???? instead??????!!!!! Friggin' nuts!}

[mrbluto]

313. Big Difference

Being an attorney is not merely a "role"

- As an attorney you research your case and you write your own lines.

- As an attorney you have to pick your battles - know when to settle, know when to go to trial.

- As an attorney you're where the buck stops - anything you can blame failure on was up to the attorney to account for.

Not so with an actor.

- They deliver lines others have written.

- They take direction from those off-camera.

- They have deals where they make money whether the result does or doesn't.

Does any of those three aspects sound appealing in a politician?

As an attorney for you to win your client must win, or no contingency.

Sounds like a recipe for an effective presidency if you ask me.

[waiting for hope]

2. I am so glad I'm on your side -

And eagerly awaiting the responses. :popcorn: That was kick ass asdjrocky and I applaud you! :applause:

[asdjrocky]

11. There's Waiting for hope!

Hope is here!

[waiting for hope]

27. I do believe!

Love your pics! :toast:

[here_is_to_hope]

214. Well, here is to hope then! n/t

[waiting for hope]

246. Love your name!

:toast:

[here_is_to_hope]

253. Back atcha! n/t

[IndyOp]

3. I lost a relative on 9/11, and I really wanted to believe something, anything.

Honestly, I can't speak for all of you people, but I was kind of crazy back then. I lost a relative on 9/11, and I really wanted to believe something, anything.

:hug:

Thanks for your post.

[asdjrocky]

15. We are here.

We are together.

[Yael]

182. Indeed

:applause:

[mrbluto]

319. Damage and division.

Why add to the damage and division here on DU?

Look - Hilary's not my favorite either, but the picture in your sig does little to inform or further the dialog here on DU. I'm not a moderator, have no authority. Just figured I'd let you know. I actually worry about her too. Mainly because 28 years of trading the presidency between just two families isn't good for a democracy.

BTW: I'm sincerely impressed with the art - it looks like it could be on a MtG card.

[neutron]

333. The poopulist candidate

John Edwards, will tell you everything you want to hear.

[Mojambo]

4. Good stuff. LOVE the firebrand style.

Recommended.

[asdjrocky]

32. Thank you...

I tend to get carried away sometimes.

[hisownpetard]

190. 'Carried away' can be good sometimes.

E.g. "And trust me on this. Edwards is a grade "A" son of a bitch. This is a man that is ready to take his hands out of his pockets. This guys ready to throw a punch. Our punch. The peoples punch."

This one sentence makes me prick up my ears more than anything else I've read lately. This is what I want, more than anything - someone to come in and clean up the friggin' mess Bush has left,
and punish every last one of these conscienceless criminals who toyed with our Constitution and our liberties.

Would Edwards do that?

[subsuelo]

284. Is he with Kucinich on impeachment?

[alittlelark]

5. I'm w/ Edwards all the way (Ex-Gore hopeful).

He is the most electable 'real deal' on the stage.....plus, I really like the guy.

I went all out when Kerry tapped him for VP - I even flew to NM for 'Election Protection'.


I don't think he would roll-over like Kerry did. I BELIEVE he is in it to win and try to save this country.

[fasterdemocratkilkil]

307. Moving on from Al Gore too.

I think I will support Edwards as well for the primary, but I'm still hesitant because of his connection to the ill-fated zeppelin disaster otherwise known as Kerry/Edwards '04. That was an election we should have won hands down, and I think they lost by not fighting as hard as they possibly could.

Let's hope Edwards learned his lessons from the last election and plays to win this time around.

[frogcycle]

6. who the hell is this supposed to be addressed to?

I read every bit of it so I guess I'm a diehard.

Why would it scare the shit out of anyone that you are for Edwards?

A lot of your diatribe is good. Damned near all of it, in fact. But what's up with repeating that line? Is is supposed to be the chorus in some rock song you are composing?

[MADem]

7. If you want undecided voters like me to pull the lever for Edwards when I am in the booth

Telling me that I am afraid of the guy (which I am not) isn't gonna cut it. Telling me that he 'scares the shit ' out of me ain't doing it. And you do a version of that SEVERAL times in your post, like a theme.

I haven't ruled Edwards in or out, either. But that doesn't really HELP me make a decision, that post. All I know is that YOU like him, and some other people have been mean to you about it.
And the guy is somehow supposed to scare the shit out of me....

Well, he doesn't scare me. And I haven't picked a candidate yet.

And that post didn't move me towards him. Or away from him. All I know is you like him and some DUers gave you shit for it. If you're trying to GAIN supporters for the guy, stop bullying them. That's just a suggestion...

Back to On The Issues for my info, I guess!!!!!

[robinlynne]

30. He isn't saying it to you. The Hillary crowd has been doing some major Edwards attacking today.

I believe that is who the OP is speaking to. The name calling has been quite something. Lists of terrible things Edwards is, and other lists of terrible things Edwards supporters are...

[frogcycle]

36. ahhhh...

thanks for the clarification

the reason i visit DU so infrequently of late.

I can't for the life of me understand how anyone could be a strong supporter of HRC. I mean, maybe you like her positions, maybe you like that she's female, but how the hell can you get passionate enough about her to want to trash all competition. I mean, that's such a Karl Rovian, republican tactic...

oh, wait...

[MADem]

40. Well, I haven't been watching that tennis match. It's just not USEFUL to

call out a group, be they Hillary supporters or Obama supporters, outside the context of the thread that is doing the attacking.

If it's way out of line, that ALERT button is helpful. If it's just falsehoods, they need to be corrected and the poster of them cautioned.

But this "Edwards SCARES you" and "You're afraid of Edwards" crap doesn't help the candidate. It turns off undecideds like me--and is unneccesarily combative in a stand-alone thread.

That's just my take....

[hfojvt]

99. it lacks a context

that could easily be given by addressing the post to - "Hillary supporters - Edwards is scaring the sh*t out of you"

Maybe not just Hillary supporters. There could be a whole contingent that is just ABE just like I am ABC.

[MADem]

114. Yep, it just isn't helpful to the candidate shoppers.

A bit off putting if you let it get to ya...

[tom_paine]

158. Oh, I think both Loyal Bushies and Sen. Clinton's supporters are equally scared.

After all, Sen. Clinton is likely the only candidate who can make this "election" close enough to steal for the Bushies, so they would naturally want her.

That is just an opinion, but based on the fact of how virulently disliked she is by so many, even many who would otherwise vote for the Democratic candidate. And don;t tell me it doesn't exist becase I have seen it with my own eyes.

And no amount of reasoning or cajoling would change these people's minds (and we aren;t talking Bushies here, we are talking Democrats), it seems. No mention of how desperately important it was to appoint the next member of the Supreme Court nor the Nazification/Bushification of all Exectuive Agencies would mean, among other things, that from here on out, the Department of Justice Civil Rights Bureau would become the Department of Minority Voter Registration and Voting Suppression.

[JDPriestly]

102. Edwards invites you to make up your mind for yourself.

Just go to www.JohnEdwards.com. He has lots of information, videos, press announcements. John Edwards speaks for himself.

I understand he made a great speech in Iowa City on trade and in particular on ensuring that imported products are safe.

John Edwards consistently polls very high against the Republicans.

What would help you decide to vote for Edwards? What questions do you have? What more would you like to know about Edwards?

[MADem]

116. I've looked at all the candidate's sites (well, all the major ones)

And I peruse On The Issues regularly--a lot of info there.

But you can sometimes find good news articles and info here, too--sometimes.


Sometimes it's just bullshit, mudslinging and infighting, though.

[tom_paine]

You know, maybe if our Democratic Leadership had been "more combative"

we could put some Bushie criminals behind bars.

What so many of us on DU want here, all we want is for someone to really TRY and fight for the Rule of Law, the Constitution and ultimately, the Soul of Old America.

I'll never forget the last "campaign party" for workers in my Congressional District in early November 2006.

I had worked for her, making calls, knocking on doors, and giving her probably more $$$ than I could afford. And I will never forget when she looked all of us in the eye and Nancy Pelosi'd us about impeachment with doubletalk bullshit.

I nearly :puke: .

Wild horses couldn't drag me back to her campaign office, if she decides to run again in November (she lost to a vulnerable Loyal Bushie because she was all timidly and insincerely "Nancy Pelosi"-ing, even in her campaign she refused to address the war at all, which probably cost her the election).

I say this to you because what this guy is saying might be all rah-rah, but it does have meaning and it does have a point.

Anyway MADem, since you seemed to miss the point and tone of the post, I thought I'd clue you in. No hard feelings, I hope, it's not personal.

Look at it this way, too, azdjrocky came right out and declared himself as a member of the Edwards campaign. campaign people do that so infrequently here (as if DU had so few people who actually worked on candidate campaigns around here :crazy: ) that is refreshing in and of itself.

FULL DISCLOSURE: I belong to no campaign nor have since '06, but as time goes on I am more strongly considering joining Edwards' in the near future.

We need some FIGHTERS in this party in leadership ositions and we need them yesterday.

[emilyg]

72. Link please.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JDPriestly]

101. I'm glad I missed it. I'm usually the brunt of their personal attacks.

I wonder if some of the Hillarybots are paid to attack.

[tom_paine]

160. There's got to be SOME way a group with only 10% becomes so pervasively vocal

appearing as if they make up 40% of DU (gosh, that sounds familiar!).

Maybe they do it for free. Maybe there's something else at work here.

Maybe you and I are wrong in our speculations and Sen. Clinton's supporters are simply very very passionate.

[asdjrocky]

52. I'll answer, here's just the stuff in my head.

I should have stated in the beginning that it was an opinion piece, that is true. Now, I'll offer some facts. We all know everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. So here we go.

To me, it matters who is behind you. That was one of the first things that I look for. Here's the folks I can think of now.

Friends of the Earth Action - 100,000
United Steelworkers -1.2 mil
United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners - 500,000 +

SEIU in a dozen states totaling nearly a million members.

A friend in the IBEW, the big boys, told me an endorsement is around the corner. (That could be BS, because I'm not getting it from the horses mouth.

There's a lot more too. The infromation is out there.

Here's some numbers, brand new.

From Rasmussen

Considering the margin of error, there is a statistical 3-Way tie for first.

Iowa Caucus - Democrats

Hillary Clinton - 27%
Barack Obama - 25%
John Edwards - 24%
Bill Richardson - 10%
Joe Biden - 4%
Other - 2%

Undecided - 8%
Â
But, and this is VERA important...
Â
Edwards is WAY AHEAD in second choice polling. Remember an Iowa Democrats whose candidate does not meet the 15% viability threshold will be able to switch to a viable candidate. Clinton, Obama, and Edwards are the only candidates who will likely be viable in most precincts,
Â
Iowa Caucus - Democrats (Second Choice Polling)
Â
John Edwards - 28%
Barack Obama - 18%
Hillary Clinton - 16%
Bill Richardson - 15%

How much have they spent in Iowa?
Obama 3.1 mil (Aprox)*
Hillary 1.6 mil (Aprox)*
Edwards 0.6 mil (Aprox)*

*Aprox. because I have not looked at the numbers in a few days. Feel free, but those numbers are pretty close. You don't get those numbers in votes, by spending a fraction of your opponents, without having some substance behind you message. That's just what I think.

Money raised:
90 mil for Hillary
80 mil for Obama
30 mil for Edwards

Any way you look at it it's a lot of money. But again, he's doing so much more, with so much less. Man, I know how to make the most of my money, and I can appreciate a candidate that can do the same.

And last? A few quick names.
Ed Schultz Dave Sirota, Ben Cohen and the folks at Caucus for Priorities, and Katrina Van Der(how ever you spell it. Even a narrowed down to two, possible endorsement, carries weight with me. There's more, but I'm only on my second cup now. Again there's a lot more, mostly just solid working people. Not a lot of big stars. Unless you count Bonie and Jackson.

So that's it. I'm not angry with you. I'm not angry with anyone here. I'm angry at THEM. The THEM I believe he will get after. If he doesn't get after them, then we'll get after him.

Sorry if I offended you. It's been a lot of great news for candidate Edwards of late, and I do tend to "cheer lead" a bit.

Good luck in your decision.

[nolabels]

250. John, he got mo........

I would rather be a close third with plenty of time to be climbing.

Also with this idea in hand that we know we are all in this kind of jamb but with some time to decide what to do about it. We could individually so ask ourselves when we need to sue someone (or at least take them to court) would we rather hire a successful lawyer or the friend's wife who is practicing paralegal. He has the the track record but she says she thinks she can do it?

I know it's a brutal question but so is taking your car to the plumber to get your brake linings replaced. You don't hire someone because you like them so much but more reason they can do the job that you need to get done

[patrioticintellect]

142. Get him to talk impeachment

And maybe I will vote for him in the primaries.

Otherwise...you can tell who I'm voting for. I'm voting for the Constitution in 2008. If you look up "the Constitution" in the thesaurus, you will find "Dennis Kucinich" listed under it. You may even find "Ron Paul." You may even find other people for "regime change" in this awful corpocracy of ours.

Impeachment---for people who make a mockery of this democracy of ours.

[rwheeler31]

9. Thank you

I am afraid a real democrat cannot be elected.

[saltpoint]

10. This is muscular talk, dynamic and focused, plain and direct,

white-knuckled after-hours truth-telling.

(I had an original version of that sentence, but had to clean it up for our PG-rated forums.)

But it was very complimentary. If a bit coarse.

I live next door to Fred Thompson.

I can watch Fred -- not that I'd want to -- nearly any hour of the day. You think he's a lazy presidential candidate? You ain't seen nothin' yet. I can see his kitchen from my kitchen. The man doesn't have the wherewithal to squeeze a plastic jar of mustard, let alone run for the White House.

Tonight, Thompson was at the kitchen table. He had the computer going. He was reading DU. In fact, he had just finished reading your post here and he is currently in the bathroom changing his britches.

Point being, there could conceivably come a night in say, October of next year, when Fred Thompson has to debate John Edwards.

In the very thought of that disparity of culture and class and drive and dedication is the code to Edwards' appeal.

No Republican running for the presidency is likely to crack that code, either.

[asdjrocky]

21. I'm speaking gibberish at this moment.

Your good.


You are good.

[JDPriestly]

107. No Republican can speak to the Two Americas. Only John Edwards can speak to them both.

And the Two Americas do exist. How many of my friends have faced the fear that their job would be outsourced or that they won't get a raise this year or that they are going to have to take a cut in pay just to get or keep a job? Can anybody remember when we actually used to work 40 hour weeks and get paid for the 40 hour week? How many hours do we work now?

My health insurance (which I have to buy privately) just informed me that my premium is going up yet again in 2008. It's getting harder to sell houses out here in California. The dollar remains very low, which means that my life savings have lost a lot of their purchasing value. Meanwhile, the stock market is up a little -- but only on the news that someone in Abu Dhabi or somewhere agreed to invest money in one of our American banks that is reeling from having made stupid investments in bad mortgages that homeowners can't pay for because wages have not kept up with the cost of housing.

The Fed will keep interest rates low until Bush leaves office, and then, especially if a Democrat becomes president, they will put on the squeeze. And we are going to need a president who sees through the games, who cares about the little guys, who isn't going to balance the budget on the backs of us at the lower end of the income scale. And the only candidate who is smart enough and brave enough to speak out about all this -- about what the Two Americas really mean -- and do what is right for all of us -- is John Edwards.

That is because the only candidate smart enough and brave enough to refuse to take corporate lobbyists' money because he does not want to be beholden to the corporate lobbyists when he is president is John Edwards. John Edwards knows which of the Two Americas the corporate lobbyists represent and he knows that when he is president he is going to have to represent both Americas and all Americans. He knows that if he takes money from the corporate lobbyists, he will only represent their America, not mine, not ours.

So, why am I for Edwards? Because in speech after speech, debate after debate, news release after news release, issue statement after issue statement, he represents me and my interests and those of people like me. So, if you have any doubts, go watch John Edwards talk. He is talking for real. He is talking from his heart. And the proof is that he is not taking money from the corporate lobbyists. That's the proof that he means what he says. The stuff about him being phony is what is phony. Phonies take money from corporate lobbyists. That is the easy way out. Real candidates refuse to be bribed. John Edwards is real.

[patrioticintellect]

145. No one should have to speak to Two Americas

We are all one. "United We Stand"---right?

Speaking to Two Americas is "double talk" in my book.

For a candidate who only speaks to One America, vote Kucinich---the people's choice candidate for '08.

[Seabiscuit]

162. But someone has to. Because there are two Americas. And Edwards is the best one to do the speaking

Remember, the "One America" Kucinich speaks to is one that includes an uber-right-wing wacko like Ron Paul on his ticket. That's one big completely dysfunctional fuckup America in my book, which is incapable of speaking to the two Americas in any coherent fashion.

[patrioticintellect]

175. So we're not all in this together?

How do you ever expect any kind of acceptable social reform if you can't talk to all walks of life from the poor class to the upper class?

It's a challenge but someone has to take it on.

[Seabiscuit]

179. "We" are together, trying, like Edwards to eliminate the two Americas -

the one America for the rich and secure, and the other America for the poor and disenfranchised. In order to make it one country, we have to bridge the current divide by creating better opportunities and living conditions for the less fortunate among us.

[patrioticintellect]

184. I'm with you on that

That's what I want. Your candidate hasn't convinced me he's the man capable of doing that. The man who has comes from a background of homelessness. I trust him to know better than anyone what should be done.

[Seabiscuit]

218. Perhaps we're pretty much of one mind.

I am also a Kucinich supporter, but was devastated listening to the audio tape of his talk about Ron Paul yesterday morning. Aside form the thorny "electabililty" stuff, my problem now with Kucinich has nothing to do with his policy positions but with his apparent lack of judgment at times, not knowing when to stop talking and not knowing when to stop thinking out loud. That audio tape merely gives the MSM more ammunition to use against him in their effort to write him off as a flake because DK on that audio tape associated himself with someone who to DU'ers, at least, is already clearly a flake, and a dangerous one, despite his anti-war stance.

I find that John Edwards and Dennis Kucinich have a lot in common on the issues today. Sure, Edwards made a BIG mistake in voting for the IWR, but that was 5 years ago and he's atoned for it by now, and moved on. Not everyone can be right about everything all the time like DK, but at least Edwards seems to (1) have his heart in the right place, (2) have his head screwed on straight, (3) has demonstrated the intelligence, good judgment and solid integrity this country needs in a leader, (4) appears to be the populist candidate with the best chance of beating Hillary in the primaries, and (5) he's the Dem candidate the Repukes fear the most, because he's clean as a whistle and they have nothing on him. Against him they'll just have to pull smelly stuff out of their arse, and he's the kind of guy who has shown he has the verbal skills to bury them for it.

[mrbluto]

322. Trust but viable.

Viable.

Trust the man as much as you like - but is he a viable candidate?

The system is screwed up and isn't giving him a fair shake, but now is not the time to take a risk.

Food isn't nutritious if you don't eat it and Kucinich's integrity will only be his own if he can't get elected.

I like Kucinich, but I have to say Edwards is our best chance to storm the castle.

[mrbluto]

317. Is it true: Nader is on Kuciniche's short list for VP?

Is it true: Nader is on Kuciniche's short list for VP?

[mrbluto]

323. OK - I'm being a jerk.

Sigh.

Read this, and found it was past the time I could edit it.

I was a jerk to post the above message.

But the fear is real - that yet again people who understand that we need to boot the Republicans out of office will shoot themselves in the foot.

How?

By allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good.

I see the Nader-supporter mentality as a threat. I don't think it has to get worse for it to get better.

There are a whole range of elements to consider.

Heart. Will. Ability. Clean record. Viability.

When I add them all up the answer in this primary is Edwards.

[JDPriestly]

271. I note that you live in Indiana. I can believe you think that there is only

one America if you live in Indiana. (I used to live in Indianapolis.) But out here in California, we see how the other 2% lives -- in their mansions while the rest of us -- the other America -- live in our ordinary homes. Out here, we see the way that money talks. We have streets full of homeless people, crummy old hotels where we house homeless out of kindness. And then we have the super, super, unimaginably rich and influential -- the sorts of people who control this country also living amongst us. Believe me, there are two Americas. Halliburton proved that when they moved their corporate headquarters outside of the U.S. They still take our tax money for what? But we can't reach them outside our borders. Just try subpoenaing their records. It won't be fun, I assure you.

[mrbluto]

318. A lot of Energy and Parsing going on there.

You really have to stretch to interpret JE's "Two Americas" point as double talk.

Do you seriously think there isn't a divide in today's america?

And if there is a way to discuss it, begin to apprehend and solve the problem, without giving it a name?

When Edwards talks about "Two Americas" do you honestly think that he, in any way, supports that situation, or wants anything other than to correct that situation?

If you answered yes to any of the above questions then I have to share with you my essential parsing of YOUR post (otherwise stop reading):

He who smelt it, dealt it.

That is the essential dynamic of what you're saying. Edwards has mentioned the problem - so he's part of it, in your book it seems.

My honest opinion about your post is that since Kucinich has little chance of getting the nomination and you're frustrated with that, you're going to peck at the people who have a chance. (especially the guy who occupies the same "space" as Kucinich would need)

Believe me when I say I can understand your frustration - have you seen how the MSM handles Edwards? They try to ignore him to whatever extent possible. It's frustrating. I'm sure you feel that if your guy got a fair hearing he'd have at least a chance. I think so too.

There are at least two differences between us.

1.) I'm being a realist and supporting the best viable option. (Edwards, IMHO)

2.) I'm not pecking at the other contenders. (I share my doubts, make my case - but none of this nitpicking and parsing to put words in their mouths. Notice I say "contenders" rather than "opponents" - we're gonna have to eventually vote for one of these guys assuming we'd like a chance to avoid Republican rulership)

Look, from what I've read, Kucinich likes Edwards - so what don't you like?

Why are you generating bullcrap arguments against him?

Is that the best use of your attention?

[AX10]

12. I agree that the corporation needs a good punch in the face and..

the ass, and especially the groin.

[polichick]

14. Well okay, now I can go to bed...

Ain't gonna be anything better than that here tonight! Well-done!!!

[penguin7]

16. Edwards does not care about what he is selling

He just likes to sell.

That is my take.

[saltpoint]

22. He's selling a dignified and decent model of citizenship, and I'm in line to buy.

[MissDeeds]

131. I agree

And wouldn't it be nice to have dignified and decent in the White House for a change?

[Clark2008]

136. A fool and his money are soon parted..

[saltpoint]

151. A cynic, says Uncle Oscar, is someone who knows the price of

everything and the value of nothing.

[tom_paine]

163. You are rhetorically kicking some ass, Old Crusoe!

Know what? I'm buyin', too.

[saltpoint]

168. Good God, are you really THE Tom Paine? This is awesome. Sir, I have

admired your work for YEARS!

____________________________
Hi, tom_paine.

Once in a while, it's a good thing to stand up for one's candidate. Most of the time it's not a bad idea to stand up to others' candidates, too, even in a feisty primary season.

One of our 8 Dems is going to be the nominee, and likely the next president.

They're owed a residual respect. I figure the Limbaugh Republicans out there will be the ones who call Hillary clinton a witch, the ones who call Edwards a fag, Kucinich a gnome, Biden a bank whore, and so forth -- that's their brand of public discourse.

We have 8 candidates who can be defended on a variety of grounds and when we have a chance to acknowledge their attributes, we all benefit. If my first or second or even third choice is not the nominee, I'm still sleeves-rolled-up ready for the person who is nominated. I want to be on pretty workable terms with that person's supporters from the git-go.

There's a long list of horrible Republicans we need to collectively throw out of office.

[tom_paine]

192. LOL. I wish. We sure could use the REAL Tom Paine here now!

but he would probably be locked up in a Navy brig, with his senses deprived in a calculated attempt to drive him insane from years of solitary confinement.

[saltpoint]

295. Agree. He'd be too hot to handle for a lot of people.

I always wondered, years later, why my high school history teachers downplayed Paine.

Ah. Then I got it.

[JDPriestly]

108. We need a president who likes to sell.

Liking to sell is not the issue. The issue is what the candidate is selling and to whom he is selling it. Edwards is selling opportunity for everyone. He is selling fair trade, affordable health care, care for the environment, a new economy based on development of alternative energy, economic development here at home. And he is not selling his wares to corporate lobbyists. That is the key. If he were really just a snake oil salesman, he would be selling to those who have the most money. He isn't. Edwards is selling to me, and he isn't selling to me and taking his pay from the corporate lobbyists. That is why Edwards can be trusted. He is snubbing the corporate lobbyists who have brought the corruption to D.C. and taken away American jobs and rights.

[Ninga]

166. On what do you base your take? How does one determine the amout of "caring" a candidate has?

[mrbluto]

320. Sooooooo Informative. So Useful!

Your take?

Nine word subject line.

Nine word post.

You just sling a little mud and you're off into the sunset.

Thanks for being part of the problem.

Maybe you should put your mind-reading (you know what Edwards cares about) superpowers in the service of good (for a change of pace).

Sadly I think you have no superpowers.

Your post is more like a squeal issued by a child stuck in a high chair.

[frogcycle]

17. I just double-checked

It's not a full moon tonight.
So what the f*&^ is going on?

[asdjrocky]

26. Lol, sorry, been a lot of good news lately.

I do get carried away.

[Jackpine Radical]

18. I like Edwards & may end up voting for him in the primary

even if he isn't as pure as the driven Croatian elf.

I read Edwards as sincere. As far as the lawyer thing goes, well, I do a lot of forensic psych work & associate with a lot of lawyers. The ones I know are decent, hard-working and not rich. Many of them do a lot of public-defender work, taking on unpopular cases for small fees, and they work hard for their "loser" clients. The surest route to big bucks is in corporate law & maybe in class-action suits. Edwards didn't do it that way. He made his money by fighting against the big insurance corporations in behalf of "little people." He was on the right side, in terms of social class issues, as far as I'm concerned.

[neutron]

334. You HAVE to "read it"

because the man has done nothing to back up his big talk.
His only record are his senate votes which are CONSERVATIVE.

He has been effective in villifying Clinton.
She could raise money, and he couldn't, so he positioned himself
as the "populist" candidate and claimed she was bought.

Cunning doesn't make for a good president imho.

[mrbluto]

339. Drink less coffee

Willya?

You are so ramped-up and anti-Edwards.

Simultaneously ardent and vacant - I have to wonder what motivates you.

Do you work for the Clinton campaign? Did Edwards personally squish your new puppy or something?

[Gregorian]

19. We've got a great group of candidates.

I'm actually having some difficulty making a decision. None of them are perfect. But who is the most imperfect. Who can win. Who will remain true. The Iraq war vote is important. And that's where I want to say to never underestimate us on DU. Some aren't as literate as others. Some are full of common sense. I can say with complete honesty that nothing Bush has done has shocked me. I fully expected 9/11. And the Iraq invasion. In fact, within hours of the towers falling, my sister called me and said "Bush". Even I was shocked. I thought I was the only one with that level of skepticism. Hell, I even coined the phrase "No blood for oil" in my office back in 1992. And I sure felt guilty about it. But it became an obvious truth as time passed.

Edwards is brilliant. He has grand stances on most of the issues I've heard him discuss.

I want to learn more. Kucinich mentioning Ron Paul still has me in freefall. So it's time to search.

For me, this isn't a competition. Not yet. This is a group of pretty damned wise people. The hardest part of this election is keeping an open mind. I closed my mind when I fell in love with Kucinich. And rightly so. Or not? So it's time to learn about John Edwards. And Joe Biden. And the rest.

I believe you. You're saying you have a handle on judging character. That's good. Now I have to do my thing, and see if it works like you said. I like this phase of the election. The part where things are in the open, and we start discussing and sharing our thoughts. I like letting go. I've spent my life making decisions and then holding on to them come hell or high water. This time I'm floating. I wish we'd all do that. Just open your eyes, heart, and mind.

[asdjrocky]

61. I so respect everything you just said.

"None of them are perfect" That my friend is a rare and welcomed phrase around here. That is where I start with everything. You'll do fine.

And you certainly, with an open mind like that, don't need my help. Watch him on Charlie Rose, I think he's saying some important things tonight.

And thank you for your reply.

Good luck to whoever you pick.

[AnnieBW]

23. The Only thing about Edwards That Scares Me

is the toll that this campaign may take on Elizabeth's health. But, it was their choice to continue, and they've been doing great ever since. I'm still undecided, but that's only because we have so many GREAT people running that it's hard to choose between them!

Now the Republicans that are running? THEY scare the shit outta me!

[texpatriot2004]

24. Edwards speaks openly about corruption and the NeoCons...

I am with Edwards. I like Kucinich too, I especially like his commitment to the US Constitution. Ultimately though, I like Edwards commitment to the people of the United States...his willingness to do the "people's business."

[Mythsaje]

25. I've got a pretty good bullshit detector too...

Had to develop one over the years.

And one thing I know for sure...when he talks about corporations corrupting our government, he's not bullshitting. When he talks about all the back-room deals, and the fact that negotiating with them only helps THEM, he's not bullshitting.

Edwards knows about the class war, and he's firing back on OUR behalf.

That's why he has my vote.

[texpatriot2004]

42. Well said. I agree. nm

[L84TEA]

28. Edwards is gonna be the man...

I know it... I am in Iowa and I know of ONE Obama supporter and he is waivering.No Hillary supporters.
I will be supporting Edwards as I did last election! I don't know what it is about him, but something about him gives me HOPE that the others don't!

[asdjrocky]

62. Wow, thank you!

You're the first Iowa supporter I've seen here. My room mate is from Iowa, and his parents say their whole block is behind Edwards, but to hear it from someone there, that is wonderful.

If I have not said it before, welcome to DU. Come sit a spell.

[FatDave]

188. Wanna see another?

Also, every other Iowa democrat I know personally is supporting Edwards. From what I can tell, Hilary has a small but extremely vocal group of supporters in Iowa. Funny, why does that sound familiar...?

[Name removed]

137. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[laureloak]

181. Good riddance then.

[yodermon]

183. Doesn't sound like you'd hate it.

Buh-bye.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

223. I'm disappointed in that sentiment, Clark2008

I've been reading DU for just about as long as it's been around. There have been thousands of comments from the kook left crowd about voting against Democrats. This is the first time I've ever read something from a Democratic centrist that they wouldn't support the Democratic nominee that Democratic voters select. I'm very disappointed that long streak has been broken.

Edwards isn't my choice for the Democratic nomination.

If he's nominated, I will both vote for him and canvass for him.

Period.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[robinlynne]

29. I heart your OP!

[asdjrocky]

63. I heart your puppy

[robinlynne]

78. he is a polar bear, but I do have an amazing older puppy. here he is:

>

[robinlynne]

79. I dont know why it says illegal code. I just up-loaded it from my computer.

[asdjrocky]

93. uh-oh...

Wonder if Bush is listening.

Use big words.

[robinlynne]

245. too funny! (use big words...)

[asdjrocky]

92. Wow, gotta clean my reading glasses.

I heart the puppy too. I'm a dog person.

[farmboy]

31. Progressive Dems have a real candidate this year in Edwards.

I'm glad not to have to pick between Gore and Edwards, because that would have been tough. I wish they could be on a Democratic ticket together and follow one another in the Presidency, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Gore involved in an Edwards administration. Edwards shows the diligence, the resolve, the invigorating energy, and the "make few mistakes and damn well learn from the ones you do" attitude and aptitude that I so want in a president for my country. If I eventually have to vote for a second choice, that person will fall far, far short of Edwards as a candidate and I will be left with the same lingering question from 2000 and 2004...."what if?"

[asdjrocky]

225. Thanks Farmboy, don't know if I welcomed you yet.

:hi:

[Triana]

35. Baw! He don't skeer ME! Bring 'im on!

SOON. Please. :)

[Mme. Defarge]

37. Tell me that Edwards

will do everything in his power to see that Bushco is indicted, arrested, convicted and incarcerated for the next 20+ years and I will jump on board. But he needs to run as an Independent if I am to work for him -- don't trust the Democratic Party to support any candidate one who doesn't get his/her marching orders from the DLC. They didn't support Gore or Kerry when they won their elections, why on earth would they support Edwards?

[saltpoint]

38. Life-long Democrat here. Edwards is a good man, Mme.

Surely that holds a proper resonance.

Robert F. Kennedy isn't most remembered for his party affiliation but for his gift of shattering those borders and forcing the larger landscape onto the hearts and minds and lives of U.S. citizens -- all the citizens, and not just the wealthy ones.

I sense quite a bit of that impulse and dedication in John Edwards.

His wife, no fool, likely does too.

[Mme. Defarge]

43. It isn't Edwards' ability/integrity I am questioning,

but his affiliation with the Democratic Party. How do you think he can he overcome the inevitable election fraud, and subsequent Party captitulation?

[saltpoint]

47. The Greens in Europe have not accomplished that yet, but have come closer

than any other focused organized political group in the West.

But here in the U.S. we are far from that level of focus or organization from institutional politics.

At the same time, there are lights in the darkness. Parties can be pushed in their planks to achieve critical mass, against which the old guard eventually falls away. Lincoln's rise in 1860 likely prompted derision from the establishmentarians back east -- after all, he was a scrawny-boned hillbilly with a voice that sounded like a cat being tortured.

But he did just fine in the White House.

His own evolution and his party's eventual nod to the Abolitionists made for some very potent change in this country.

In more contemporary times, post-Reconstruction Southerners were gathered up in Nixon's "Southern strategy" and hold sway at this hour. Southern Democrats of my youth were not like John Edwards. Or Jimmy Carter. They were like Ax Handle Maddox and early George Wallace. That was the Democratic Party of that region at that time.

It's not the Democratic Party now.

If you have objections to the limits institutions impose on their most gifted and promising members, you are not alone. But absent a social apparatus like the European Greens, we navigate as best we can.

Within that zone, we have some good choices, even as Bella Abzug's supporters and Robert Kennedy's supporters had good choice in them.

For me, John Edwards is such a choice.

[Mme. Defarge]

48. THANK YOU!

I have posted this concern over and over again and you are the only one who has provided a historical perspective that actually gives me hope.

But what about election fraud and the failure of the Democratic Party to seriously address this?

[saltpoint]

51. As to your question, and this is just my take, I say we gather torches and

pitchforks and head over to Diebold headquarters and kick a little ass.

I do understand that there are legal ramifications to that proposal.

Yet the allure of it stays with me...

[asdjrocky]

65. I'm building the stockpile now.

You always have such good ideas Crusoe.

[saltpoint]

83. We could, you know, wear grocery bags over our heads to avoid detection.

Plus, we have to pick out which CDs to bring.

[asdjrocky]

90. I am so all over that job.

1. TNT - AC-DC While I'm not a big fan of the classic rock era, this is appropriate.

You're next.

[saltpoint]

154. Good choice. We can put some imported beer in the trunk for the

picnic following.

[asdjrocky]

258. And apple pie?

All good Americans must love apple pies.

[FatDave]

290. I hear that torch and pitchfork stocks are way up.

[mzmolly]

292. "But he needs to run as an Independent if I am to work for him ..."

Sorry, but that's absurd. Why should a Democrat run as an Independent with less of a chance to beat Republicans, and less money and power behind him?

Also, the DLC is a special interest group, it is not "the party." To assume that that OUR Party or a given candidate needs the DLC is simply not so.

The DNC represents "the Party," and that is currently headed by Howard Dean.

[AtomicKitten]

39. I think it's fabulous.

I feel the same about Obama.

And I say to you again, may the best man win! Cheers.

[farmboy]

41. I thought highly of Obama, too, until the SC fiasco. As a gay man, I'll never look at him the same.

[Nutmegger]

95. Welcome to DU!!!

:toast::beer:

[asdjrocky]

56. Obama people are good people.

Right back at ya AK! One of the best here imo.

My 17 year old daughter loves him. I'm taking her with me to observe the Nv caucus.

I think Obama looks best in this one:

I'll even say Gobama tonight!

[chimpymustgo]

198. Great picture! I see a ticket... This is such a lovely thread. It does give me hope.

As a JRE supporter who survived in 03-04 (anybody else remember THAT?), it's quite heartwarming to see this level of support on DU. And the fire and eloquence. I dare to hope, again.

[Catchawave]

44. I'm glad I'm on Rocky's team too !

Edwards inspires. And tonight, so does the Rock :hi:

[asdjrocky]

66. Aw, shucks!

:blush:

[durrrty libby]

45. load of crap, beginning to end

[asdjrocky]

Libby,

This is a tender moment for me. I'm touched. I mean that. I really had no idea you even noticed me. I love ya. C'mon, let's have a hug.

[snowbear]

106. No Rocky, No!

Stay clear of the durrty one.


She.. he? ... they? ---- they have a mean-streak these days.

I'll give you a hug instead!!!

[asdjrocky]

283. Don't worry,

Like most bullies, one good punch in the nose is enough.

Peace.

[KaryninMiami]

46. I'm not scared - I'm fine for the most part with Edwards- except for one thing.

Why in 2004, after PROMISING- repeatedly--- that he would make sure that every vote would be counted-- did he break his promise? Kerry conceded too early before anyone had a handle on what was going on in Ohio (although some of us new immediately what had happened as it was the fulfillment of our biggest nightmare)- in a way, although I was horrified a part of me wasn't surprised that Kerry decided for whatever damn reason, to concede. But the fact that Edwards sat by and never protested, has never sat well with me. I really had more faith in him then that and I was devastated in disappointment.

I was really excited when Kerry picked Edwards because I saw quiet strength which was the perfect balance to his being a trial attorney where it's necessary to not only be strong- but to have the persistence of a bulldog the courage to be fearless. I could see the fire and passion in his spirit inside of that charming demeanor and I thought-- ok-- this is our best shot at fighting back when they rig the election. So then what happened they did just that? Nothing. Kerry conceded and Edwards went along with him. Why?

In my opinion- it was because Edwards knew that if he went to bat for what I have to believe he knew along-that the election was rigged not Ohio bit countless other states with rigged machines and massive disenfranchisement - exit polls are NEVER WRONG. But he must have figured that if he gambled at this and lost the fight it could cost him in 2008 whereas by keeping quiet, he'd have a better shot at the nomination this time around. So he did. As a result, we paid the price of 4 more years of hell under the Bush administration watching the hijacking of our constitution, the destruction of our democracy, the continuation of the nightmare in Iraq, the further destruction of our planet, the tanking of our economy, corporate takeovers and-- need I say more? I, along with many others, was devistated with disappointment that he didn't take up the fight and I truly believe, he would have won.

So-ok. I'm willing to support Edwards of he winds up being the candidate. I may even donate some money to his campaign- so far only Dennis has earned a donation from me. Plus, I'm a huge fan of his wife whom I admire and would be thrilled to have with him in the White House (and who's judgment I trust). But I sincerely hope that my initial feelings about him really are on target and that he will turn out to be the maverick defender of our constitution, inspirational leader and facilitator of change our country so desperately needs right now.

And no, he doesn't scare me a bit. What scares me is to continue to be disappointed by elected officials I've worked so hard to get elected and hoped so hard would lead us out of this darkness.

[OwnedByFerrets]

54. According to the information

that I have heard, Edwards was furious that Kerry gave in so easily and isnt on good terms with him to this day.

[KaryninMiami]

59. But he had an opportunity and frankly, a responsibility to speak out-

For God's sake- verifiable elections- HAVING EVERY VOTE COUNT- is the fabric of our democracy. Fuck Kerry damn it- sorry- this is a big issue for me-- glad to hear he was furious with him- big deal. What about the big picture here- you know- the part about doing the right thing?

Am I asking too much by demanding that our leaders not compromise when it comes to truth and justice and defending our constitution even if it means possibly putting one's own career in jeopardy? Imagine what a hero he would have been had all of the Diebold drama started unraveling then instead of now because he demanded investigations on the spot. Imagine what a difference it would have made to have discovered then what we know now about how many people never got to vote in Ohio or about what went on in other parts of the country with "glitches" and strange goings on which were technically impossible. All we needed was someone to stand up and say- Something is not right here- someone needed to shout it loudly and we would have stood up and cheered, as we did when Barbara Boxer stood up in the Senate stating that she objected to the results - but where was everyone else in the Senate at that moment? Covering their asses that's where- especially those contemplating a run in 2008.

Don't get me started....

[asdjrocky]

70. I feel you.

I was not happy. I am with you on that. I have voted in every election since 1980, and every single time, I got nothing for my vote, and the country got worse. Lol, I have my travel plans if we don't make it this time. If Edwards doesn't get the nod, although, I don't accept that as a possible out come, I'll support who dose. If a pug gets the house, I'm gone. If a Dem gets it, I'll give them a year.

Vanuatu is a pretty wild place. Wanna join me?

[KaryninMiami]

148. Vanuatu looks lovely but it's pretty far away.

Plus, my mom in NY thinks I live too far away now (I'm in Miami)- this might freak her out totally. How about finding somewhere a bit closer- Dominica is nice (in the Caribbean). Costa Rica is ok too. I think we should all chip in and by some land somewhere and build a DU Compound/Commune- totally green and energy self sufficient, easy enough to get in and out of, good communications, etc. If a pug gets in, many of us really are going to leave- we're at the point now that they've infiltrated so deeply in so many aspects of our freedom I'm not sure even with a Dem in the White House, that we'll be able to dig out. Especially with some of these Dems who clearly have mixed intentions and alliances that are clearly not in sinc with progressives.

[asdjrocky]

309. Put me at the top of the list, my friend,

[OwnedByFerrets]

221. some few things l pulled together hurriedly......

Edwards was VERY unhappy about Kerrys decision.


"Based on reporting for Fooled Again, Miller said Kerry told Edwards in a phone call that Shrum and other advisers insisted that a concession was the best course. “They say that if I don’t pull out, they (Kerry’s political opponents) are going to call us sore losers,” Miller said, recounting the substance of Kerry’s phone call to Edwards.

Miller said Edwards responded, “So what if they call us sore losers?” But Kerry pressed ahead with his decision to concede.

“Kerry’s caving in like that gave an enormous gift to the right wing,” Miller said. “They (the conservatives) could now claim, ‘well, even their (the Democrats’) candidate doesn’t think it was stolen. And they (Kerry and his advisers) left … the American people hanging out to dry there.”

"WASHINGTON (CNN) — Elizabeth Edwards, the wife of Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards, criticized Sen. John Kerry, D-Massachusetts, Thursday over his decision to concede the 2004 election to President Bush so quickly after election night.

Mrs. Edwards, whose husband was the vice presidential nominee in 2004, said in an interview with Air America's Richard Greene she was "very disappointed" then-Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry chose not to contend the election result in the crucial swing state of Ohio — where he lost by approximately 120,000 votes.

"I was very disappointed, not just because we did not count the votes, but because we promised people that if they stood in line and fought for the right to vote, that we would fight with them," Mrs. Edwards said. "And I was very disappointed that the decision was made by the campaign, over John’s objection, not to fight."

Mrs. Edwards added that reported voting irregularities in Ohio caused "a lot to be suspicious about" and said the real winners of the 2004 election would likely never be known.

"I don't think we're going to ever know and that's a shame," she said. "Certainly there's a lot to be suspicious about."

"We're never going to have the kind of certainty we need to have," Mrs. Edwards continued. "I don't care if I find out the evening in the first Tuesday of November. If I don't find out until Friday who the president is but I am pretty sure it’s the right answer, that's fine with me."

Conceding the election in Boston the day after polls closed, Kerry said, "The outcome should be decided by voters, not a protracted legal process. I would not give up this fight if there was a chance that we would prevail, but it is now clear that even when all the provisional ballots are counted, which they will be, there won't be enough outstanding votes for us to be able to win Ohio."


Theres much more....I just dont have the time right now to find it, sorry.

I do not blame John for Kerrys mistake.

[JDPriestly]

110. I watched a video on Edwards' website some time ago

on which he discussed the issue of counting every vote. In fact, Elizabeth spoke up, and Edwards gave her the floor. Both John and Elizabeth are absolutely committed to making sure every vote is counted in 2008. Judging from the way they talked, it seemed clear to me that they were not happy campers at all about how the vote recount issue was handled in 2008. I also note that the feelings between the Kerry and Edwards camp are not all that good. I have heard that the decision not to pursue a recount was Kerry's. I can't prove it, but I believe that to be true. I do not think Edwards threw the recount at all. And he certainly would not have thrown it so he could run in 2008 on his own. He would have been in a much stronger position for 2012 had Kerry won in 2004. Edwards would have had an easy ride into the nomination in 2012 plus a total of potentially 16 years working in the vice presidency and presidency. So, I think you need to reconsider your theory.

[Beaverhausen]

215. I don't know if this was the reason, but Elizabeth was diagnosed with breast cancer the day after...

...the election. So, at the time he had other things on his mind.

[mrbluto]

324. He had a responsibility to follow Kerry's lead

Look - he had a responsibility to follow Kerry's lead.

There needs to be some Democratic discipline and Edwards showed that. In any political organization the leaders can't be in a situation where everyone is shooting from the hip and going off on their own crusades. Not that their crusades aren't worthy, but to hold the party together, and just for shear effectiveness, there has to be some careful sequencing to fix what the neocons have done to the country. For example: free speech is a higher priority than save the whales I have to say - with no free speech you can't even talk about the whales. Preserve speech first and saving the whales is easier.

Anyway, it was up to Kerry to fight. Not only to fix the situation if he prevailed, but also to take the heat for the good of the party. He should have fought and left room for Edwards to have a chance in the future. It's too bad actually - I liked Kerry. I have to wonder what they told him to make him decline the fight.

If Kerry wasn't going to fight, and Edwards did, do we have any doubts about whether the DLC triangulators would have hung him out to dry?

Edwards, much like a prosecuting attorney, had to make a decision about whether to go for it. I think he made the right decision considering how easy the triangulators folded on the issue.

[Zodiak]

49. Edwards is most likely going to get my vote

He is the only candidate that is willing to speak for true populism (instead of this focus on "middle-class" only) other than Dennis Kucinich. He is willing to take on the corporations and is willing to break the back of the DLC and the Republicans alike. He has learned, like Gore, that high-paid Democratic "advisors" are selling piss and calling it "golden elixir"....and is speaking a far better message than the empty platitudes of the front-runners.

And better yet, he is getting within striking distance.

He may not do as well in gentrified Democratic strongholds, but in a general election he will rip up the rural areas and the South like no Democrat has done in some time. I know some pretty conservative Texans who would vote for him....they trust him. That is doom to the Republicans....and doom to the corporatists.

If Edwards falters, I'm voting Kucinich because he is the most allied with me (Edwards is a little conservative socially), but if he is anywhere near the "Great Annointed One", he gets my vote.

[calteacherguy]

50. He just doesn't have the qualities I'm looking for in a candidate. nt

[1932]

58. Would that be centrism and an incredibly steep hill to climb to victory?

[Apollo11]

128. Touchdown!

Good answer.

I am trying to think of Hillary's qualities that would qualify her to be President.

Closeness to Rupert Murdoch?

Maybe the cackle thing? :eyes:

[OwnedByFerrets]

53. Im right beside ya......

I am supporting him every way I can.

[saltpoint]

55. and not least, that's a peach of a photograph of the Carolinian.

Excellent.

[1932]

57. We're going to have to put a handful of DU'ers on suicide watch on Iowa primary night.

[saltpoint]

85. : )

[ScreamingMeemie]

242. That's not funny.

Not in the least.

[Nederland]

60. The only thing that scares me

...is that people like you won't line up and support the nominee when Edwards goes down in flames.

[asdjrocky]

71. That's a crappy thing to say.

I've said many times I'll support whoever gets the nod. Hell, I've said it in this thread.

Flames? You afraid of fire?

[MethuenProgressive]

135. Exactly, Nederland.

They're burning their bridges before they get to them. (ala Johnny Edwards...)

[mrbluto]

326. What is your damage?

Love how you refer to Edwards as "Johnny Edwards".

Tactics like that may have worked in grade school, but now they should be restricted to Coulter columns - certainly not used in this forum.

[FatDave]

193. Aw bullshit.

I'll vote for the democratic nominee no matter who it is. The worst democrat is far better than the best republican. And I think most Edwards supporters agree with me. Though if any of them would like to contradict me, feel free.

[Lugnut]

64. I'm not scared.

I want my damn country back.

[byronius]

67. I'm voting for Edwards.

He's the straighest arrow in the quiver. The worst thing I can say about him -- he's not actually, personally Al Gore.

[emsimon33]

68. Gave Edwards $75 today

[asdjrocky]

74. Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Edwards 08

[emsimon33]

213. Actually, after reading your comments, I went back and gave the full $250

So despite what some DUers said, you did have a $500 (with the Federal matching) impact. Not too shabby and I bet there was more!

[saracat]

73. Woza! Your best post ever! Fantastic post! You make me giggle!

Now go get that cofffee!

[asdjrocky]

75. He's going to win.

Can you feel it? Did you see him on Chariie Rose?

[Madam Mossfern]

84. I've liked Edwards from the get go

But I still like to keep an open mind. Kucinich caught my attention for a while, but I still like Edwards. I like the way Biden speaks. Too bad the Democratic Party in my town is so inactive. That's very very sad.

He needs passionate supporters like this - perhaps the OP should be sent to his campaign people. I think they would enjoy it.

Interesting how I post in such simple sentences when it's the middle of the night.

[asdjrocky]

88. Welcome to DU!

And I can never make my sentences long enough either. It makes for very choppy writing.

Anyway, I guess that's okay.

I'll live with it.

See? I do it all the time.

[mlevans]

205. Actually that choppy writing style

was and is highly effective in getting the point across. It's not a style I'm comfortable employing myself, but I thought it was excellent.

[nachoproblem]

76. What scares me...

does not really have anything to do with Edwards.

I can see this happening in the primaries: Edwards wins in Iowa. I think we can all agree that he relates to Iowa pretty well. He did last time. At any rate he's less likely to "go down in flames" in Iowa than the two Media Picks are. The Media, since we all know how they like to play "I knew that!" will seize on some gaffe or pseudo-gaffe of Hillary or Obama (or both) and try to make it another Dean Scream. I think it made them feel powerful last time, and they will kill again (so to speak). But neither of those two are my first choice, so this doesn't scare me.

I can see this happening in the GE: the Republicans will try to drag down his populism. They can't touch him on "values," so they must try to make him look like an elite phoney. If it's Mitt Romney running against, it will almost certainly ring hollow, and if it's Rudy there's no chance in hell. I believe Bush was only able to present himself as an outsider or man of the "heartland" because before 2000 people outside of Texas didn't know him, and after 2000 he was linked inextricably with Texas. So again, this doesn't scare me.

BUT... if Hillary wins in Iowa, the media will just keep shoving her up our asses until she wins the primary, and then she will lose the GE. It doesn't matter if Mitt Romney is running against her, or Rudy Mussolini, or Fred Flintstone, or the kid from down the street, or a box of snakes. The RNC machine have more than enough ammo to destroy her regardless, or to make all undecided Americans more interested in stabbing themselves in the face with a fork than going down to the polls in 2008.

And THAT scares the HELL out of me.

(Note, for supporters of Hillary: Since this is my first time posting and I have no desire to start any bad blood, please understand that although she's not my first choice ideologically, I'm only talking in terms of strategy and not whether she would be acceptable to vote for.)

[asdjrocky]

77. Wow,

Big welcome to DU.

(And keep your head down. Sometimes they're easily distracted by bunnies.)

[Bozita]

89. Welcome to DU. ... BTW, that's a helluva first post!

[Mythsaje]

105. Let me third that welcome...

And let me also say I hope you're wrong. I think any of our candidates can beat any of theirs...but I much prefer JE's message.

[JDPriestly]

112. Welcome.

I have observed that Edwards is very careful to tell the truth about his past. For instance, in an interview this evening, he stated that he had worked in his father's mill. He was careful, however, to explain that he worked part-time only as a kid. He also admits he was a hick. I believe he was a hick. And everyone knows exactly where his money comes from. Some of his big verdicts are listed on Findlaw if you Google for them. He does not have a Whitewater in his background. He has said he will close Guantanamo and end surveillance that is not legal. Edwards is the real deal. He will restore our Constitutional rights. He will be honest with us. I, too, am older and a good judge of people.
(if I do say so myself).

[JDPriestly]

115. It is up to Edwards to deal with the scream bit threat.

His campaign is quick to react. And he reacts well. Did you see how fast he had a really good, but simply ad up to counter the Romney dig about Two Americas at last night's debate. That was well done, John Edwards.

John Edwards went around the block in 2004 and has been thinking about it every since. He was not just sitting around the past three years since the 2004 election. He has been preparing for this election just like a lawyer prepares for a major case. Tonight in an interview he explained how he does it. He works harder than anybody else. That is what he is doing now. And that is how he will win. Fair and square and on our side. I am really strongly supporting John Edwards. He does not take the easy way out. He is not taking the corporate lobbyists' money. That is his greatest strength and the proof of his sincerity.

This election is not an auction. John Edwards is not for sale.

[K Gardner]

185. Kudos, excellent analysis...

and welcome to the DU newbie club ! Your insights will be welcomed :toast:

[nachoproblem]

311. Thank you!

To all who welcomed me. And I hope I'm wrong too, about Hillary that is. Events of the past have just made me pessimistic. Especially the 2004 election.

[Bozita]

80. Still trying to figure out how to make my vote in Michigan count for Edwards

Please spare me all the shit about rules.

[asdjrocky]

87. You must move.

Seriously, how far is Iowa?


Get on the bus.

[tired_old_fireman]

81. I love this post

and I love the way you respond to criticisms. You're an inspiration.

[asdjrocky]

86. Wow,

Thank you. lol, I'd have to say that's probably the first time in my life I've been accused of that. Glad to have a fireman on our side. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[MonkeyFunk]

91. He doesn't scare me one bit

but if it makes you feel better to think so, knock yourself out.

[asdjrocky]

94. Thank you.

I think he scares the corporations most though.

[tkmorris]

120. Ahhh, MF...........

Always the bitter old crank eh? Good luck with your thread pooping my friend. I personally think the time for cynical naysayers is coming to an end, and soon. I hope you can transform, like a chrysalis, to a better form of primate.

[Nutmegger]

96. I stand with Edwards, and I know he stands with us

And will always stand up with us against the corporations and special interests that have a direct line to our public servants.

Tomorrow begins today.

R&K

[asdjrocky]

97. We are going to work!

[xxqqqzme]

100. I'm w/ you.

I was lucky to be @ the CDP Convention in San Diego last spring & got to hear all (except Biden) the candidates. I really hadn't settled on a candidate as it was waaaay tooooo early. Clinton left me totally unimpressed. Obama was flat. Dodd was interesting; Kucinich was too screechy. Edwards brought down the house on a Sunday morning w/ the convention center half full. After Edwards finished, the center was left nearly empty because of all the people who followed him out the door. It was inspiring. I didn't go cuz Richardson was the next up & I wanted to hear him. That was it - the two candidates who spoke to real issues - Edwards & Richardson.

I heard Edwards again last month. His message id honed, there are more details in health care; getting out of Iraq; and he is expanding his alternative energy policies. I'm going w/ Edwards this round. I thought it was a shame that he was not utilized more in the '04 race. He is a hell of a lot more charismatic than Kerry that's for sure.

[asdjrocky]

103. All very good points.

He is fine tuning his message now, narrowing the scope of what he has been saying all along. I saw him in Reno a couple of weeks ago, and tonight on Charlie Rose, he really detailed what he talked about in Reno.

And he showed some passion about the poor people of this nation.

This is what I always believed a Democrat should sound like. I'm glad he's here before we've hit a total depression.

[garybeck]

104. THIS is the big difference with Edwards

For so many people, he might not be their first choice, but they WOULD vote for him, no doubt, in a general election. For many he is the second choice.

BUT there are many, TOO MANY, people who just won't vote for Hillary, period. She's not the first, second, or third choice, she's the LAST choice on the Dem ticket for many and that is not good for her or the party or our country's future if we want to end Republican rule.

[asdjrocky]

109. I have met republicans that have changed to Democrat to vote for Edwards in the primary.

But they have all said, in the general, they'll never vote for Hillary Clinton.

Here's some numbers, just look at the vast difference in second choice.

Iowa Caucus - Democrats (Second Choice Polling)

John Edwards - 28%
Barack Obama - 18%
Hillary Clinton - 16%
Bill Richardson - 15%

[Apollo11]

129. Right now it looks like Edwards could win Iowa

But both Hillary and Obama have enough money to keep fighting all the way.

Edwards and Obama both doing well might actually help Hillary in the end.

This is turning into an exciting political season ... B-)

[asdjrocky]

216. Yes,

He's looking better eveyday.

[cali]

111. well,

no. Sorry, you being for Edwards doesn't scare me. Why would it? I doubt it scares anyone else either. you don't bother to explain that. You are remarkably self-centered if you actually believe it.

Support your candidate, and get over yourself. If he wins the nomination, he's my candidate too, and for all my doubts about him, I'll gladly be supporting him.

It's primary season on DU. All the candidates pay the price here. You criticize other candidates. Others criticize yours. It's really that simple.

Why a grown man would use the type of faulty logic evidenced in your OP, is beyond me.

[asdjrocky]

113. Wow, okay,

Jeez Cali. I wasn't really talking about you, personally, in the often repeated tag line. You do understand that don't you? Of course you do. Sorry.

But really, I'm flattered.

No be a dear, and let's keep up the fun this time.

Shall we?

[cali]

117. Doesn't really matter whether you were talking about me or not

you were talking to a group of people here. I was simply pointing out faulty logic.

As I said, it's primary season on DU. It'll be over in approx 2 months. And the vast majority of us will be on the same team, fighting for whoever the nominee is.

[asdjrocky]

118. I am so looking forward to that.

And I thought your post on how everything might shake down to be insightful.

Honest.

[mrbluto]

340. Wow. Kill me.

Why a grown man would use the type of faulty logic evidenced in your OP, is beyond me.

Please kill me - if I ever start to sound as humorless as that.

It makes me want to say "Make him stand in the corner! Make him stay in at recess!"

Cali - do you read this board at all?

There are definitely some people on here who need to hear exactly what the OP said.

Probably wasn't directed at you - but if the shoe fits then wear it!

[dmosh42]

119. He's not the 'corporate candidate', and he talks.....

about the corruption. That is the biggest factor on why he's number one on my list. Keep at it!

[greyghost]

121. EXACTLY...

He's the only one addressing reality.

[Diamond Dave]

123. We like Edwards - he made his fortune and reputation fighting corporations.

Just the simple fact that my in-laws in Pine Hurst, NC hate him, just because (they are dyed in the wool Repubs-living in the oldest golf resort in the nation), is probably reason enough alone to support him. I love how he says he will end "health care" for the Senate and Congress. I think the man just might be trying to speak "truth to power".

I do have a few issues though, I knew going to war against Iraq was criminal, why didn't John? And then there was that attendance at the Bilderberg meeting, that was disturbing, just a little, to say the least. The man knows the game, I hope he is careful. Corporations don't play nice.

(once again, the wife of Diamond D and her 2 small cents worth)

[rucky]

124. Nice one, rah-rah!

:evilgrin:

[Adelante]

125. Askeered

:scared:

[bluerum]

126. I really like Edwards. Have liked him since he was Kerrys running mate.

I did not like his performance in the VP debate. Thought he got hosed by a snarling lying bastard. He was too respectful to that criminal POS. He is going to have to come out with something a lot more aggressive. If he has a weakeness,,,, its that he does not know when to grab his opponent by the throat and tear it out.

[zalinda]

144. I think that his performance in the debate

had been framed by Kerry's handlers. Kerry could have creamed Bush, but didn't, and I think they reigned in Edwards too.

What I respect about Edwards is that he seems to keep his word. He voted conservatively while in the Senate when he was representing his red state. I know he is slammed for this, but a rep is supposed to answer to the people who put him in office, which is why I don't know why Diane Feinstein is still in office. He made a promise to Kerry in how he would handle his VP position and did it.

I think what we see now is Edwards unleashed, he is going to do this for his mother and father, who worked hard all their lives, and gave him a chance to be what he has become. This is for all those who could never be heard, because they didn't have the money to be heard. This is in memory for Wade, and his other children, to try to make this country and world, a place that he could be proud to leave for them.

I, too, have sent them money, money that I would have spent on Christmas presents. Because I could think of no better gift than to have John Edwards in the White House.

zalinda

[NavyDavy]

130. right now i am supporting all our candidates.....i donated to each..

as long as a dem wins in Nov is my motto....i just don't like the hate toward our own here lately...i know some may be disrupter's/trolls/freeps etc. i think we can disagree without cutting each others throats....i sit here sometimes feeling beat down when i visit the repuke sites and all they can talk about is how Dem's can't get organized and will end up shooting ourselves in the foot, and they use my favorite site, DU, as evidence. I want my daughter who is 7 yo to be able to travel with me around the globe and be able to say with pride "she is an American" without the threat of being attacked because of the dumba** repukes and their foolish lack of foreign policy...

[MethuenProgressive]

132. I donated to all except Edwards.* He's a fraud. A phony. A fake. And a failure.

His entire being is poll driven, his 'anger' an act, his positions pretend, and his record as a elected Democrat dismal. I'm dissapointed that 10-20% or so of my fellow Democrats have fallen so hard for his act. Mike Dukakis, at least, was a real liberal.

(* and Gravel, didn't send him anything either, and I want a refund from Obama.)

[Name removed]

202. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HughBeaumont]

133. Edwards is my first choice.

Of course, I'm a very strong ABC, but I believe he or Obama would be the best chance for us to win the GE. If you had both on one ticket, it'd be no contest.

Edwards speaks to the worker and genuinely cares about their plight. I believe he has a solution to the corptocracy that's killing this country.

[Dhalgren]

156. Edwards isn't my first choice, but if he is nominated I could vote for him.

[Clark2008]

134. The only thing that scares me is that he's duped so many of you.

Yes... despite your protestations, he has. I don't care in what industry you've worked, you apparently can't look at his record, see that he started a poverty center to keep his name in the news and now panders Dean-like to the netroots.

Yes... he scares me. He's as inexperienced as Bush, changes his mind more than the fickle among us and wouldn't know how to lead anyone out of a paper bag.

[1932]

138. From you, this is hilarious. You remember when you went around telling everyone that Nancy Pelosi's

daughter wrote in her book some crap about Edwards? You swore she wrote it. The book was available on Google books, and what you claimed she said wasn't there.

Remember when you told a story about your brother in law and Edwards that evolved into a completely different story?

It's quite obvious that you detest Edwards for reasons that you passionately hold, and that's fine (and I think they have to do more with your sense that he's the antithesis of Clark in many ways that I really think have little bearing on whether he would be good president but seem very important to you, and that's also fine).

But to argue that other people are "duped" (presumably by lies) into supporting Edwards is riotous when you, yourself, haven't kept your facts straight when you've tried to convince people not to like him.

[saltpoint]

155. Well, we're just a bunch of dumbbells, Clark2008. Say. How's Wes Clark's

campaign doin' these days?

That Clinton endorsement sure lit up the boards.

[Inspired]

173. There was NEVER going to be an '08 Clark campaign.

Never. It was always about supporting Clinton.

[saltpoint]

296. Hi, Inspired. And it may pay a veep nom dividend for Clark if she is

the nominee.

If she isn't the nominee, his odds aren't quite as good. After all, he endorse her and not Edwards, Obama, Biden, Richardson, Dodd, Kucinich, or Gravel.

We'll see how Iowa turns out. As of this afternoon, the Clinton numbers remain good but are falling.

[Inspired]

305. Hi OC.

I live in West Des Moines, Iowa, so I get to see a lot of this up close. Today should be an interesting day with a couple of big events planned. The Heartland forum and the Brown and Black forum. I have tickets to the Heartland forum but I'm not brave enough to venture out in our ice storm today. At least both are on C-span.

I heard some interesting things about Clark's run in '04 while eavesdropping on a conversation that a few 'players' in Iowa were having. According to them, there was more to his run than his actual desire to become president. It pays to keep your ears open!

[saltpoint]

310. You're on the ground there in Iowa, so you get first dibs on the candidates.

What is the emotional state that would comprise both jealousy and vicarious pleasure? That's what I feel for you Iowa Democrats ever 4 years around this time. I wish I were there in the thick of it as you are, but since I can't be, I want to cheer you on, lend rapt attention, and dog-sit for anybody that calls.

I defer to your inside track on info regarding the General. My only sense of him at this point is that he's likely to be on several candidates' short list in Denver, although a far greater chance of being chosen by Sen. Clinton. But you know that whole story.

As for this ice storm today, you are wise to stay in, IMO. The news accounts from the Plains today are not encouraging. Kick back, put on "Carolina In My Mind" by James Taylor, maybe write another check to the Edwards headquarters, and stay safe and warm.

We need your vote on January 3rd!

[mrbluto]

328. He scares you?

And "he started a poverty center to keep his name in the news"?

You know what - I'm not even going to take the time right now to untangle the useles snarl you dropped into this conversation.

I am going to take a moment to wonder what your motivation is.

Hmmmm.

No. I don't think anybody would pay you to make that crap up.

Hmmmm.

I give up.

I'd be lying if I said I looked forward to your response.

[notundecided]

139. Edwards was on Charlie Rose last nite

You know, I was one of those who thought Edwards was selling snake oil,
but listening to him last nite I could see that this guy is real.

[info being]

178. Same here

I thought he was fake in 2003.

[Vickers]

140. He's too pretty to be scary.

:P

[highflyingbird]

141. I'm new around here

But I'm not a new Edwards supporter. I've been with him since before 2004 and he's the real deal.
The more people pay attention the better he'll do. A change is coming and John Edwards is leading the charge.

[mtnsnake]

143. "He's a snake oil salesman!"

Thanks for the plug, Rocky ;)

Yeah, I hear 'em yelling. Well, I gotta tell ya. I've spent better than three decades now out on my own in this big bad world, and I think by now, I've figured out when someones selling snake oil,

Kudos always to the self-employed who've weathered the storm over the course of time. I like your passion...

:thumbsup:

[asdjrocky]

254. Love ya big Snake,

Hoping to see you chime in here my friend.

We both know, when the shit really goes down, who will be standing together.

Peace buddy!

[aintitfunny]

146. You see, I am with Edwards too !

thanks for the great post.

[tom_paine]

147. A belated welcome to DU asdjrocky! A hearty K & R for John Edwards!

Yes, he is by far our best choice on so many levels. I have to say, if there was and is one thing I was worried about was that he might not be enough of a "Grade A Sonovobitch".

But in either case, he is right for this nation at this time.

I'm with you adsjrocky.

[asdjrocky]

252. Thanks Tom,

And I love your name, by the way.

[GoneOffShore]

150. He doesn't scare me.

Clinton scares me, Obama scares me, because they are so much drawn to "triangulation".

[BigDDem]

152. I am sooooooooo scared

hopefully I will be able to sleep tonight.

[EV_Ares]

157. Thanks for the post, hit on some true and good points, one more

vote here.

[CTLawGuy]

159. It is scary

wondering which Edwards would show up to govern...

the flaming progressive we see today?

or the moderate Senator who supported and defended the Iraq War, who voted for the Bankruptcy Bill, who voted for free trade agreements?

[Hip_about_time]

164. Well

I like Edwards best also.

[BigDDem]

169. One Edwards...

for each America.

[CTLawGuy]

172. maybe he has a twin brother?

NT

[info being]

177. At least with him, we had some hope

[faithfulcitizen]

197. Exactly what "scares" me too. He was war-mongering when war-mongering was cool. Hillary too.

[texastoast]

259. All you folks seem to forget

That it was a little stupid to come out and say that you were absolutely fucking goddamn sure that there were no WMDs in 2002, given who we were dealing with and the shellshock that was America at that time. You would have been a liar if you said it because no one was really sure, not even we super lefties. Bush had done a good job on 67 fucking percent of the Americans getting them to believe him. That was a big fucking percentage of the people who had voted for Gore.

NONE of the Dems were hippy hoppy happy about the situation, but it was at a time before we were bloody sure that Bush was a complete nutter to the extent that he would murder his own people to keep Halliburton happy.

Edwards at least has somewhat of a plan to bring America together and the brains to finance it. He is eloquent and very presidential and a reasoned risk-taker. He doesn't have the baggage of Bill that Hillary has.

That said, I do not support his stance on the war. I'm with Bill Richardson on that. Edwards needs to change and get us out of Iraq immediately. There's no money or focus for anything else until we do.

Did I say fuck enough in here? If not, let me know.

[mrbluto]

327. Hit and run.

Love your post.

Ask a "are you sorry you beat your wife?" sort of a question, make vague allusions to nuanced issues that are not so cut and dried, and then that's it.

Pure Rove.

[notanotherday]

165. I sent Kucinich $100, and will probably give Edwards money too.

If you look at the front runners like Hilldog/Obama, they are both being given tons of cash from corporate lobies.

Best government money can buy. = Republican Lite

[BlueJac]

167. Good post asdjrocky..........

Edwards all the way. The real people he scares are the corporations. If he is elected he will take us in a new and positive direction.

[huskerlaw]

170. Not at all

In fact, Edwards is the only candidate who DOESN'T scare the shit out of me. ;)

Great post. It's quite obvious that many people ARE scared of him, for various reasons.

Me? I can't wait for Iowa. :D

[caseycoon]

171. Of the "top 3"

Let it be Edwards!

[info being]

174. I'm a rare-breed here on DU

I gave Kucinich $100 yesterday, but I'm 100% behind you with Edwards as well. If, come Primary time, Edwards has any chance of beating Hillary and Obama, I'm with him.

[grmamo]

176. I'm solid behind Edwards, only he could change my mind....period n/t

[Iggo]

180. The only thing I'm afraid of...

...is batshit crazy BushCo's October Surprise for 2008.

These war criminals already have their bags packed for Dubai and Paraguay. I don't care if they go. I want them to go. Good riddance. Someone will hunt them down like Nazis sometime in the future.

What scares me is this: NeoCons don't give a good goddamn about the United States Of America. They might kill it to keep it.

John Edwards doesn't scare me. Hillary Clinton doesn't scare me. Barack Obama doesn't scare me. And certainly Dennis Kucinich doesn't scare me.

An American warplane flying halfway across the country before anyone notices there's six nukes on it.

That scares me.

[SavageDem]

220. True dat, Iggo.

They truly care naught for this country. I'm also ascairt that they'll do something insane (like launch nukes on Iran) just for the perceived political gain. And Guiliani scares me - not physically, as I'd love to run into him in a dark alley - as that'd probably be the first thing he'd do in office. "Hey, where are those launch codes?" Hillary scares me in that the "liberal media" might get her on the ticket, and (as previous folks have said) I'm convinced that she's the only candidate that could lose the Presidency for us.

But John Edwards doesn't scare me. In fact, it's the reverse: I'm scared that he won't get the nod as our candidate.

And about that B-52 landing in Georgia...I want a HUGE investigation into that. That just does NOT happen accidentally. You have to go through multiple security layers just to get to the storage facilities for the nuke warheads, and by the time you've put them on the stanchions on the plane, every tech, pilot, and dishwasher at the airbase knows what's going on. I'm sure those big yellow (or orange, or whatever) paint jobs to distinguish them and the radiation labels all over the bombs might just possibly tip off someone that they're not loading a dummy warhead. I'm still convinced (tin-foil hats on) that this was an aborted launch on Iran. A B-52 has the range to fly a strike mission right from ND all the way over.

[redqueen]

186. Doesn't scare me.

I see him as the second-best candidate. :)

I *might* even vote for him in the primary... depending on how his candidacy is going around that time. I'm torn on that...

[Javaman]

187. Back in 04, I voted for Kerry mostly because of Edwards...

Right now I'm watching DK, but given the recent rumor of him possibly running with nutjob paul, I may soon be back into the edwards camp.

This election, I'm taking a wait and see. No one is a shoe in at this point and I want to see how the candidates fair on the campaign trail first. Who has holding power, you know?

[clarence swinney]

189. John Edwards is HONEST

He truly cares for least amongst us

He wants to have an economy which enables the Middle Class to grow in income and wealth.

He is the ALL-AMERICAN candidate not the 20% candidate like all conservatives.

He will try hard to make life better for all americans.

He is smart. He works hard. He surrounds himself with honest people.

He does not like war or imperialism.

He is a GHW Bush with guts and sincere desire to help not just to make $$$$.

He can steer our national ship on a different and better course for all-americans.

He will hire skills not pals.

He will not LIE(intent to deceive).

He will be smeared big time by smear kings.

Their problem he is squeaky clean.

[BigDDem]

191. Hey wait...

I thought it was Kucinich we were all suppose to be "scared to death" of.
Is it Edwards this week? Ok, didnt get the memo.

[Prophet 451]

196. Actually, he's my number 2 choice

Since Gore isn't running, Kucinich is my preferred candidate but I would not be the slightest bit upset by an Edwards victory either.

[frogmarch]

200. K&R Great post, rocky

I read it aloud to my five morning coffee guests, and they too said WOW!

[peacetalksforall]

203. I tend to support him and then I pause and remember - he voted for

invading Iraq. A person can get smart real fast. But, that vote .... when peons like me knew... I will remain a purist. Viva the soul of

Paul Wellstone.

Iraq War #1 - voted no
Iraq War #2 - voted no

[Fabio]

204. Good luck to you and your candidate

I wont be supporting him in the primaries, but kudos for your passion.

[asdjrocky]

210. Thank you.

And good luck to your candidate.

[K Gardner]

206. He may very well get the nomination, and if he does

I'll be out there campaigning tirelessly for him like I did in 2003. Good post, Rocky... the Democratic party needs tireless and unapologetic workers for ALL our candidates :toast:

[DirtyDawg]

207. Our Best Shot...

...I truly believe that John represents our best shot at 'sealing' the election. Hillary is hated - I'm not real happy with Bill either - as others have said, she'll galvanize and energize the Repugs more than any of their 'candidates' can do...Sad to say there are still way too many people out there that won't vote for Obama simply because he's black...

I think as the weeks and months go on, people will start gettin' serious about their decision and John will move into a front-runner position. Naive, maybe, but we can't allow the country to reward the Republican Party for the last eight years with another four...it just can't happen. Because if we do I fear this country is truly doomed. If this is what we've become and are seemingly proud of it, then we deserve exactly what we'll get - and it ain't good.

[femrap]

208. I did a tremendous amount of

knocking on doors before the '06 Election...and I was pretty shocked when folks said they wanted Edwards for Prez. He does hit a nerve. I would vote for him. No problem. I love the fact that he hates Corporations...probably not as much as I do, but you're right, he's talking about it.

[Life Long Dem]

209. Scared of the fear of eight years past.

Not of the future years ahead.
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=2052411450&size=l

[dicknbush]

211. I have to say I am with you........

I have always had a hope that Edwards would come out on top of this scrummage the primaries. The fact that he has had to slog through and crawl and fight and claw his way up is inspiring to me. He is thoughtful his wife is very very very smart and articulate and in my heart I just believe that he would be the right man for the job at this time. He is going to have to fix a lot of things and it is going to take time including extricating ourselves fro Iraq. As much as I would love to see us leave yesterday that is not going to happen. We must leave in an orderly way and we must try at least to create a stabel siutation there not for our own personal greeds oil etc but for the people of IRaq and the middle east who we as a nation allowed to be brutalized by these thugs who are now running our country. I believe that John Edwards has the teperment and the ability and intelligence to makle this happen.

[woundedkarma]

212. I don't like him...

but it's mostly because he sounds like he's just telling you what you want to hear every time he opens his mouth.

He's probably a lesser evil than Hillary. Probably about tied with Obama in terms of what he might do for the country.

What's sad is people seem to keep ignoring Kucinich who is the only one who seems to have any guts, isn't slimy, speaks plainly and knows what's going on.

[asdjrocky]

217. Two words?

Ron Paul.

[woundedkarma]

235. being as I can't edit :P

I'd like to state I've listened to a couple of Edwards' speeches now and he seems okay.

I don't like his universal health care plan any more than I like Clinton's or Obama's. None of them are real universal health care.

The only plan currently out there for REAL universal health care is h.r. 676.

The fact that none of them are behind it makes me sick. (ouch pun sorry)

You aren't for the people if you aren't for 676. IMHO You're for the current health system. or some version thereof.

Given a choice, I think Edwards would probably be better than Obama or Clinton. Maybe tied with Obama.

[neutron]

335. Why do you think of Hillary as

an Evil?

Because her opponents have effectively swiftboated her?

She voted against condemning MoveOn while Obama stuck his
head in the sand and wouldn't vote. An old trick with him.

You think she's pro war? Look at Bill's record.

You think it because the Edwards Camp has been saying anything
and everything to bring her down.

[polichick]

219. Wow, this thread is still going strong...

GOOD! :)

[asdjrocky]

222. Suprised the hell out of me when I woke up this morning.

Hi Polichick! Love your name by the way.:hi:

[polichick]

228. Hi Rocky :)

You're a natural storyteller!!

[asdjrocky]

231. Lol,

Would you please tell that to the people that keep rejecting my stories?

why can't you own a literary quarterly?

[polichick]

273. Oh, what do those stuffy editors know anyway?!

Go for a novel ~ bold and colorful, and breaking all the rules!!!

[dieselrevolver]

224. Excellent post

I'm an Obama supporter, but I've been drifting more and more towards Edwards these last few months. He's honest, hard-working and intelligent. It'd be great to see someone like that in the White House again.

[asdjrocky]

230. Thanks for the reply.

I have to say I like them both, but I've been an Edwards supporter for a long time.


President Edwards, with VP Obama, in the early days.

[Inspired]

279. A picture of the dream ticket. Just ask Bill Maher. n/t

[Olney Blue]

286. Damn. We have great Dem candidates!

[onehandle]

226. Edwards' election would expand our hold on Congress. nt

[Plucketeer]

229. Here's the thing......

......... I'm with Edwards. Alot of other folks are too! And it would SCARE the shit outta me if I thought I was alone in that respect!

Look, I've made mistakes all thru my 62 years on earth. I know I'm not alone there either. But here I am/we are pressing forth with our lives and hopefully having banked valuable lessons from the aforementioned mistakes that are behind us. I say this as a shield against those who would be quick to rattle on about my past gaffs.
Besides, purportedly, the last perfect person on this planet was executed at age 33. Seems a few mistakes CAN BE a ticket to longevity.
Anyone can dig dirt on anyone else if they look hard enough. Hell, I'd run for congress in our district if it weren't for the fact of a messy divorce in my past. I know the incumbent rethug would dredge that up in a heartbeat if I were to oppose him. Besides, I'm an introvert at my core and the spotlight of running for office would have me lookin' like a lettuce leaf under a heat lamp in a matter of days. But I'm not executin' keystrokes here to tell MY life story - I'm here to say that no one is perfect. No one. So don't insult my intellect by crowing about one misstep or hindsight clarity.

So here's the thing... I can't - in all honesty - picture myself backing anyone else but John Edwards at this point. There ARE others that don't scare the shit outta me, but they don't give me hope either!

:kick:

[asdjrocky]

232. A big thank you!

And a big welcome to DU!!:hi:

[BrklynLiberal]

248. VERY well said!!!!!

[windoe]

233. I disagee that John Edwards is scary...

Ron Paul is scary.....aaaaaaaah!

[mntleo2]

234. Me too asdjockey!

I really do believe he is not part of the same ol', same ol'. Because he has the guts to speak about the corporate corruption that is killing this country as it sucks all the blood out of our souls with their greed. He talks about the poor, which nobody else speaks about and I adore him for that. He cares about healthcare and wants it for everybody.

I believe in John Edwards and support him. I hope others will follow.

My 2 cents

Cat In Seattle

[williesgirl]

236. I'm with you on this. Even sent him money twice even though I'm close to bankruptcy myself. rec'd

[Divine Discontent]

237. hear hear...

and John does all this amazing work without talking dirty... that's one of the amazing things. usually people have to curse to be 'heard' and be loudly understood by common people, but this man does NOT. he knows just what to say, with respect, and his faith has taught him how to be tough and withstand the heat in a way I haven't seen in years...

I'm very excited by his rise in the polls, I knew he'd do it - when I saw him a couple of months ago, I knew he WANTED to win, and regardless if he does or not, I know he truly wants it - stands for what I believe mostly - and deserves our nomination.

great OP, thanks!

[gmoney]

238. I like him...

if he isn't the presidential candidate this time, he should run for governor so he can gain the experience some say he lacks.

[Kurovski]

240. K&R. (nt)

[YoungDUer]

241. He scares me in that he may kill my family in Pakistan

I talked to Elizabeth about this and essentially their position seems to be very lethal to the people there. It's the same of the US status quo: "security" over human rights.

[txaslftist]

243. I'm with John.

He's my second choice, but he's a good one.

[txaslftist]

244. I'm with John.

He's my second choice, but he's a good one.

[BrklynLiberal]

247. Damn! Wish I could have said it as well as you did...

:applause: :headbang: :thumbsup: :toast:

[debbierlus]

249. I detest messages with this type of confrontational title

Edwards isn't scaring anyone here. We are all trying to figure the best ways to utilize our energy, money, & passion & who best deserves our support.

I like Edwards. I have actually been considering him, as of late.

But, please. Stop with this the unnecessary tone. We have enough divisiveness.

[asdjrocky]

255. kick

[Crunchy Frog]

269. I agree with your apparently unpopular view on this issue. n/t

[cuke]

256. I'll go with the candidate who always supported universal health care

Not one who just jumped on the bandwagon

[krj44]

257. edwards/clark in 08

winner.

[onehandle]

267. That would be our best combo at this point. nt

[marks25]

260. Bought out!!

Edwards is bought out by the same corporate interests that own Clinton, Obama and all the RNC except Paul. Hence his vote for the war you're willing to dismiss, Patriot Act, refusal to impeach, and his false flag health care prop. Just like all the others. He's just hedging his bet and talking more progressive than Clinton to appeal to you DNC'ers who believe the "electability" garbage the msm is selling you and are too chicken to vote your interests. NO CORPORATE CANDIDATES IN '08!!!

[Beaverhausen]

261. LOL! Welcome to DU

:hi:

I disagree with you 100% but defend your right to say it.

[berni_mccoy]

262. R # 95!!! WOOT!

:kick:

[jamess]

263. Edwards getting the nomination

Edwards getting the Nomination doesn't scare me in the least!

What really does scare me is --
What will continue to happen to this country,
IF he DOESN'T get the Nomination!

8 more years of DC GridLock --

Now THAT'S Scary!

[TrogL]

264. I love the picture

(of John Edwards) ...and its implications.

I'm an infrastructure person.

Most people expect stuff to just work. You sit at your desk and you expect there to be heat, light and power and your computer works and the network is there. Most of you have an inkling of what's behind it, but many people are completely oblivious. I'm the guy standing in the server room sweating (literally and figuratively) at four o'clock in the morning waiting for the air conditioner guy to show up.

I've also done my little bit of politicking. I'm a small fry political activist and lobbyist. I've worked on campaigns successful and not. I've had my face-time with the suits and gotten some meaningful results.

The CBC routinely broadcasts reports from the House of Commons. Canada runs on the Parliamentary system. A typical day in Parliament is NOT made up of speeches. The meaningful work gets done during Question Period. Listening to it over the radio, it sounds like a riot. I don't mean a whole lotta fun. I mean literally, a riot. There's yelling, catcalling, banging, people screaming at each other, the Speaker screaming and banging for order (usually in vain) and that excessive politeness used by people who absolutely hate each other but have to work side by side to get something accomplished. It's the bigfisted brawlers who thrive.

I used to work for the Anne McLellan campaign before she retired. This was the period of time when I was most politically active and with her help I got some stuff done. In person she was one of the nicest people I've ever met. I've seen her work a crowd and she literally remembered every person she'd ever met, their illnesses, their kids' birthdays, what they'd had for lunch. I've been in meetings where she was hard-nosed but diplomatic. On Parliament Hill she was an absolute tiger, out screaming everybody on the floor, dragging the opposition through the mud and answering difficult questions tit-for-tat.

That's the kind of person you need for President. I wanted her to run for Prime Minister (she was Deputy PM at the time) and she did give it considerable thought, but she felt Paul Martin was more electable, otherwise she'd do it. Personally, I think this was a mistake - Martin was too much of a compromiser and corporate shill.

I heard Kuninch (sp?) awhile ago on the CBC and he really appealed to me - but as an intellectual. He had all the right ideas. He might make a good Vice President, a Gore vs. Clinton. But if Edwards is a fighter, then he might just be your man whether you like him or not.

It's not what happens in the floodlights that necessarily matters. While the pretty speeches are nice, it's the nitty gritty of the back room at 4 a.m., the ugly corridors of power where things really get accomplished.

[Divine Discontent]

265. Edwards kick!

Great thread, deserves to be kicked again.

[Senator]

266. No, I didn't just want to do the 100th Rec

(Ok, maybe a little.)

But Edwards blazing past HillaBama makes me somewhat less "scared."

---

[asdjrocky]

270. Thank you for your help Senator.

Lol, I always wanted to say that!

I want to thank everyone here. Now move on people. There's far better writers than me with some great threads running out there!

Here's a few...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3776450

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3775991

And last, but not least. A post, dedicated to our post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3774154&mesg_id=3774154

Thanks again everyone. Now go away. I have to go to work.

Edwards 08.

[asdjrocky]

276. .

[designforce]

268. Another Edwards supporter here.

After listening to all of them, I am going for Edwards. I think he represents the best hope for the party and the country right now. Besides, I want us to win so we can set the country on the proper path.

Just my two cents. ;-)

[slipslidingaway]

272. Question for Edwards' supporters on enforcing health insurance

please answer in this thread. Is everyone OK with this mandate?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3774692&mesg_id=3774692


"...Edwards' truly universal health care plan will ensure that every American has health insurance. He will require proof of insurance when income taxes are paid and when health care is provided. Families without insurance will be enrolled in Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP or another targeted plan or be assigned a plan within new Health Care Markets.

Families who lose coverage will be expected to enroll in another plan or be assigned one. For the few people who refuse to pay, the government will help collect back premiums with interest and collection costs by using tools like the ones it uses for student loans and taxes, including collection agencies and wage garnishment."

[1corona4u]

301. I'd like to know the answer to that myself...

[slipslidingaway]

302. Oh well...No replies from Edwards' supporters n/t

[deacon]

274. Edwards '08 n/t

[NotGivingUp]

275. i'm going to respond before i read what everybody has to say....

i do believe that edwards is being propped up to steal the vote away from kucinich.

[ozone_man]

277. Because Dean and Gore are not running

that leaves Edwards and Kucinich for me. If DK doesn't pick up in the polls as things get close, I will vote for Edwards. He's the populist candidate of 2008.

"What about his vote on the war?"

I've forgiven him on that because he said it was a mistake. Hillary says it was not a mistake. Obama wasn't there, so he's untested.

"He talks about corporate corruption."

This is what made me sit up and take a close look at him for the first time. Watching him in debate was impressive! He's the anti-corporate candidate, after DK of course.

[KoKo]

278. RUN "Elizabeth" ....you have my VOTE! n/t

[nightrain]

281. was supporting Kucinich, now for Edwards

It was the Ron Paul for VP that tipped it for me. What a crazy idea! Too bad Dennis, cuz your other ideas/plans/proposals are fabulous.

I hope Edwards comes around on the GLBTQ issues, particularly gay/lesbian marriage.

[Sherman A1]

282. Hate to disappoint you, but

Edwards does not scare the SH*T out of me, none of the Democrats do. I like DK more than the others, but any of them would be far better than what we have now or what we would get with another GOP Administration.

So there ya, go.

[FREEWILL56]

285. Now you've got my curiousity here as to why

you go with Edwards now saying he will pull his hands out of his pocket to fight when Dennis has already swing at the criminals in this administration? Forgive me if it was said as I didn't read all of the replies. If it was said please direct me to the post.

[TAGGLINES]

288. AMEN, MY VERBOSE BROTHER...

Need more fists in the air like this guy. We've become a nation of affluenza-diseased pussies. I met JE...saw him speak out loud and clear...no bullshit in his tone, no grabb-assed answers...truth, ladies and gents...truth. And that scares the living shit out of the majority of insiders...Hell, everyone knows cockroaches hate the light. We need to think more like our forefathers and take a stand for this insanity that is gripping this great and mighty nation. I'm a vet of a shitty wa, a father of 5 sons...and yeah, scared enough to raise a little hell at the Powers That Be.

Power to the People !!!

Go John...give 'em all hell

http://www.youtube.com/v/1QvqA0bbAr4&rel

http://www.youtube.com/v/1QvqA0bbAr4&rel

[asdjrocky]

298. You ARE my brother.

What in the hell is wrong with a little muckraking on occasion? I'm proud to count you among us.

Welcome to DU!

Stick around a while, we'll have some fun mixing it up.

(5 sons? Wait a minute... that's not you, is it Mitt?)

[Inspired]

306. I like the way you think!

Welcome to the DU!!

:hi:

[mzmolly]

289. "The peoples punch?" I like it!

And trust me on this. Edwards is a grade "A" son of a bitch. This is a man that is ready to take his hands out of his pockets. This guys ready to throw a punch. Our punch. The peoples punch.

[MannyGoldstein]

291. He Made Plenty off His Predatory-Lending Hedge Fund

I think he'll do fine without your hard-earned cash.

[mrbluto]

321. Hey - love that talking point. Did it fall off a Republican Truck?

Seriously.

You dart in, make an accusation like that, and run off.

How about you back up what you're saying.

Oh.

Upon closer examination it's pretty baseless?

Well - if it's good enough for a FAUX news headline you're going to drop that bit of poison into the forum?

Well then.

I think I know what to think of you.

[Michael101]

293. A pattern in the John Edwards supporters....

Short- term memory.


A little reminder of how bright and progressive John Edwards. And spineless too..

He cosponsored Lieberman's S.J.RES.46, the Iraq War Resolution, and also later voted for it in the full Senate to authorize the use of military force against Iraq,<17> saying on October 10, 2002 that "Almost no one disagrees with these basic facts: that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a menace; that he has weapons of mass destruction and that he is doing everything in his power to get nuclear weapons; that he has supported terrorists; that he is a grave threat to the region, to vital allies like Israel, and to the United States; and that he is thwarting the will of the international community and undermining the United Nations' credibility."<18> He subsequently apologized for that military authorization vote. Edwards also supported and voted for the Patriot Act.

[calimary]

294. Why? He doesn't scare me at all. Except when he's done things like let

cheney off the hook during the 2004 debate when he coulda nailed his ass to the underside of a manhole cover.

The only thing that concerns me about Edwards is that he'd pull his punches too much for the sake of "taking the high road." I want punches aimed below the belt from him (from ANY Democratic standard-bearer, for that matter)! WAY below.

[sellitman]

297. I'm new on the Edwards band wagon.

Just this past week BTW. Good post. I thought Edwards was our best hope even when Kucinich had my vote. Now I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

[Laelth]

299. Happy to K&R

:dem:

-Laelth

[Solaris]

300. VP Edwards for President in 2008

I liked him when he won the election for VP. I like him now. 
He will make a fine President.  DK would be a great VP. Then
in 2016 DK can win the presidency. 

[asdjrocky]

303. Thank you Solaris.

And welcome to DU!


Edwards 08

[subsuelo]

304. If Edwards was ready to throw a punch

He'd be for impeachment.

But he isn't.

Edwards is a phony, and his anti-impeachment stance proves it.

[asdjrocky]

308. Phony?

You know I've read everything Norm has written, and nothing in it suggests that it would be a good idea to have a
"President for Life."

You pic in your post shows how little you know about picking a "phony"

Peace, and good luck to your candidate.

[subsuelo]

312. Do you have an answer to Edwards stance against impeachment

I know it may be difficult to attempt some justification but come on you didn't even try

[mrbluto]

329. Is he against it?

Do you have quotes? Do you have evidence?

[subsuelo]

342. Yes, have a look

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nATKGBpgR2o Questioner: "How do you feel about impeachment of GWB and DC...?" Edwards: "I am not personally for impeachment... I understand the feeling.. My judgment is that I would rather see us focus on getting the right nominee, the presidency..." Also see this: http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/28865 -- Edwards: "The entire congress shut down for months (during Clinton proceedings)... my fear is that ... nothing would be done... it's a judgement call.. that's not where I would put my energy."

[Perry Logan]

316. I think the Hillary supporters should refuse to vote if Edwards gets the nomination.

If they can do it, we can do it. What do you think the Democrats' chances would be if the Hillary supporters pull out?

[mrbluto]

331. Where have you heard Edwards supporters wouldn't vote for Hillary in the general election?

Where have you heard Edwards supporters wouldn't vote for Hillary in the general election?

The only time I've heard it said is from posters like you.

Is this some sort of astroturf operation you're engaging in? Something like a push-poll?

Because I've seen accusations, but never the initial threat on this issue.

In fact I've seen many Edwards supporters go out of their way to say that they'll support the nominee, whoever it is.

[asdjrocky]

336. Bring something of substance...

I've never seen this said in seriousness.

I know I will support whoever we may nominate.

[ileus]

325. Scared he may sue me for not voting for him? I don't think so.

[Eurobabe]

337. ...

:boring:

I prefer Edwards over Clinton, but he doesn't scare the shit out of me.

[LWolf]

341. Why is it he is supposed to scare me?

I really don't "get" that part.

I certainly hope that his interesting shift from centrist to more liberal positions since '04 is sincere, and that he will, if elected, follow through on what he is saying now.

If he can convince me of that, he might get my vote in the general. I'm not convinced by political speeches and rhetoric; we'll see what he has to offer should he win the nomination.

Meanwhile, I'm also not afraid to vote my conscience; I'm casting a vote for DK in the primary.

[AlertLurker]

343. What's really scarey is how close this hypocritical shill is to the WH ALREADY.