I see alot of threads attacking Obama's fundamentalist friends

[fenriswolf]

thought I would post this article on Hillary and her religious views and ties, please read it because if you are a hillary supporter and think religion should not be at the fore front of the white house this will open your eyes.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html

[ElizabethDC]

1. Already posted today:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3757633&mesg_id=3757633

Criticism of Hillary because of this article (some here have decided that Hillary is a Dominionist) is what spurred the criticism of Obama, I believe.

[maddiejoan]

2. I must have missed the part --

--where Hillary made her private beliefs part of her campaign rhetoric.

[fenriswolf]

5. she doesnt have to make it public

if she takes religion very seriously when making policy then it doesnt matter if she is shoving it in our face or not. Shoving it in our face doesnt matter if we have religion having a hand in our policy process.

[maddiejoan]

9. Matters to me.

A candidates private faith doesn't matter to me -- it's when they trumpet it as part of their policy as rhetoric that I have problems with.

Call me old fashioned --I believe in separation of church and state.

If Hillary finds private comfort in prayer --good on her.

When she tells me that *I* have to be prayerful --she can kiss my ass.

[ellacott]

12. Obama never said that either

but you all want to see that to justify your opinion of him.

[maddiejoan]

18. #1 He did say that.

#2 You don't know what my opinion is of Obama.

[ellacott]

26. It's pretty obvious

He did not say that. You can read into his words and come to the conclusion that that's what he meant. That conclusion would be incorrect.

[maddiejoan]

29. What am I missing?

"The reason that I have make a decision to support the choice position, is not because I dont think its a moral issue, but because I trust women to make a prayerful decision about this issue."

I don't make "prayerful" decisions about anything.

I make reasoned thoughtful decisions.

[ellacott]

30. That's very good for you

No where in that quote is he denying you that choice.

[maddiejoan]

32. So what happens if I don't make a prayerful choice?

Will I go to hell?

[ellacott]

33. Never thought of the 2 being connected

Going to hell has nothing to do with prayer. You don't pray to keep from going to hell.

[sandnsea]

16. When she went to church Sunday

for starters. When they moved choice to a decision between a woman and her God. She talks about God all the friggin' time. She just doesn't have the guts to go to the fundies and tell them when they're wrong, straight to their face.

[maddiejoan]

19. She does?

I know she's a regular church goer.

I don't think I'd categorize her as talking about God all the time though.

[sandnsea]

25. Here's one

"It is certainly not in keeping with my understanding of the Scripture because this bill would literally criminalize the Good Samaritan and probably even Jesus himself," she said. "We need to sound the alarm about what is being done in the Congress."

http://www.tpmcafe.com/node/28153

The thing about Hillary is that she'll toss scripture around, but won't go straight to those who are standing in the way of progress on the really important issues.

Obama has called the right wing haters non-Christian, has called on the black community to be inclusive of gays, and is now going after the anti-abortion crowd. He's hitting the truly divisive issues, not using scripture to divide the country even more.

[maddiejoan]

27. wow.

talk about reaching.

You're criticizing Hillary for doing what you claim that Obama is doing.

BTW --I don't see that Obama is doing anything remotely like what you are saying.

[cali]

3. lol

that's been posted so many times that it's now out of stock at anti.clinton.com.

[fenriswolf]

4. sorry first time i read it.

[jonnyblitz]

7. it's been posted about twice a week since it first came out

months ago and MANY of us who are complaining about OBAMA now complained about THAT then. and NOW everytime it comes out that Obama is kissing fundie bigot ass YET AGAIN, Obama supporters crawl out of the woodwork with that article.I think it was posted TWICE last night.

[fenriswolf]

14. sorry jeez, not an obama supporter

and it's the first time i read it. I thought it was interesting.

[LostinVA]

6. She's a Methodist

Methodists are very different than fundies.

[Capn Sunshine]

8. Let's see what Hill's website says about that:

Today, however, Hillary may not be visiting the United Methodist Church as much as she once did, when she came to Washington in 1993, she joined a Bible study group. She met with members such as Eileen Bakke, wife of Dennis Bakke, a leader in the anti-union Christian management movement; Grace Nelson, the wife of Senator Bill Nelson, a conservative Florida Democrat; Susan Baker, wife of Bush consigliore James Baker; and Joanne Kemp, wife of conservative icon Jack Kemp in what is referred to as a Christian “cell”. The group is a part of the Fellowship of a network of sex-segregated cells of business, political, and military leaders. The Fellowship is dedicated to "spiritual war on behalf of Christ”. The only public event for the Fellowship is the National Prayer Breakfast, the remainder of the time it is kept behind closed doors or as put by former Republican Senator William Armstrong "made a fetish of being invisible."

“The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan.”
Instead of having the same exact doctrine of the United Methodist Church the Fellowship's ideas or beliefs are a blend of Calvinism and Norman Vincent Peale, the 1960's preacher of positive thinking. This religion is one of a positive thinking faith in the elect chosen by God. They devote their religious beliefs on the scripture Romans 13:1 "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers...The powers that be are ordained of God."

[AtomicKitten]

11. "Spirtual warfare on behalf of Christ."

Oy vey.

Now what was that about kissing fundie ass again?

Pot.Kettle.Black.

The hypocrisy reeks around this joint.

[LostinVA]

22. self delete

doublepost

[LostinVA]

23. That's not even her website -- better put the pot away

Talk about hypocrisy... slamming a candidate by claiming the info is from an official source when it isn't

And, unlike some people, I don't have to edit my posts three times in less than ten minutes. Dislike HRC all you want to, but be honest about it.

I should have put you two on Ignore weeks ago -- shameful.

[AtomicKitten]

24. Perhaps you find her secret prayer groups more edifying?

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html

edited for a better link since the sphincter police must have all editing accounted for ...

edited again for the rolling eyes smilie ... :eyes:

edited again to advise you of the 'no peaking' rule when you put people on ignore ... :hi:

edited again cuz I'm just screwing with you now ... :silly:

[madrchsod]

31. "The hypocrisy reeks around this joint."

you noticed too?

[AtomicKitten]

34. you can set your watch by it

oy vey

[LostinVA]

21. That's not even her website -- omg, unbelievable

[EFerrari]

10. Religion should not be at the forefront of this campaign.

We are a secular Republic. That these two have continued to undermine one of the pillars of our Constitution is disgusting. They both disgust me equally, okay.

At this point, I wouldn't believe either of them if THEY were on fire. I just hope that actual Democrats like Kucinich or Edwards gets the disgusted vote.

[quinnox]

13. Its a tough sell

To try and make Hillary out to be a right wing fundie like Bush, it just doesn't compute. The Hillary bashers have tried this months ago but its a tough sell.

Obama is emphasizing his religion as a theme of his campaign, Hillary has not. I know it sticks in the craw of some Obama supporters but its reality.

[EFerrari]

15. Oh, please. I just caught a little propaganda segment over the weekend.

about how HRC was accepted by Senate Republics after she started attending their prayer meetings.

They are both at it.

[sandnsea]

17. How does confronting fundie beliefs

make this people Obama's friends???

[Marmoset]

20. WASF

Should be obvious by now that EVERY candidate for high public office in the USA is pretty much required to declare their deep and profound faith, without which they would be nowhere. We are the most whacked-out bunch of religious maniacs in the Western World. One thing I can't quite get a grip on is, on the one hand, the cries of horror that the USA has lost it's wonderful religious nature, and on the other hand the steady encroachment of religion into damn near every aspect of life. It can't be both.

PS Hillary is pretty much GWB-Lite. Certainly less egregious in many ways, but hardly a dramatic alternative. Even the "liberal-wing" of the Democratic Party would be considered centrist at best in most European countries.

[madrchsod]

28. fundamentalists or evangelicals ?-->

which is it today or this afternoon?

[Warpy]

35. Neither Clinton nor Obama has a voting history that reflects

trying to make religious fundamentalism the law of the land.

One of my best friends on IRC was a self described religious fundamentalist. She is a kind and generous person with absolutely no intention of forcing her belief on me or anyone else. She said example is the only way to teach, and she is a great teacher.

I don't give a rip what anyone else believes or disbelieves. Quite frankly, it's none of my business. What is my business is whether or not they want to force me to live within parts of their faith I find unacceptable.

Neither Clinton nor Obama shows any sign of this. I am perfectly comfortable with their belief systems, whatever they are. I am comfortable with most of their voting records.