Anecdotal evidence doesn't mean anything but

[cali]

it is interesting. I just had thankgiving dinner with 23 adult voters- all dems but three independents. I did a poll among them. Here's how it broke down- 13 for Obama, 6 for Edwards and 4 for Kucinich. All 4 of the young voters, voting in their first presidential election plan on voting for Obama. So no, it doesn't mean anything but that out of 23 liberal Vermonters, the majority are for Obama, and no one is supporting Clinton. No one expressed any strong antagonism toward her; most folks cited the bush/clinton/bush/clinton deal as a major reason they weren't interested, and several noted that they found her uninspiring.

[dsc]

1. Did you ask if even one of them ever brought up that dynasty thing

when it was Bush. I have no problem with opposing Hillary Clinton but I have a huge, huge problem with doing so for dumb and inconsistant reasons.

[cali]

2. no. I know that everyone there detests bushco

why would I ask. Oh, and no, I don't think it is dumb. I think it is troubling that two families could wield that much power for a generation.

[dsc]

3. I believe the people should get who they want

and if that happens to be a Clinton, then so be it. That is what democracy means.

[enough already]

9. It's even more troubling when you see how close they are personally to each other

I want to vomit every time I see Bill Clinton with the elder Bush prick.

[DrFunkenstein]

14. I Brought Up The Dynasty Thing For Gore 2000

I was disappointed that we were stuck with either Bush's dribblings or Clinton's heir-apparent. After a few years, it became clear that Gore was his own man, but I was not entirely comfortable with him in 2000 (particularly given the corporate presence and tight media control of that campaign).

[MethuenProgressive]

4. "The plural of anecdote isn't data."

~ George Stigler ~ Nobel Prize Winner

[cali]

6. no it isn't and that's why I noted that it was simply

interesting that among this group of people- 14 women and 9 men, mostly very well educated and all well informed, the lion's share of support went to Obama, and Clinton had no support. What does it mean in the larger scheme? Nothing, but I did find it interesting.

[syberyenta]

5. The people don't like Mrs. Clinton and they won't vote for her

Hillary has been 'anointed' by the media, but the media don't represent the people.
The people don't like Mrs. Clinton and they won't vote for her

[cali]

7. again this is anecdotal. It really doesn't mean much

I suspect she'll get a lot of votes. Will it be enough to secure the nomination is the question.

[BeyondGeography]

8. I can't tell if Dumbya is pushing Hillary because he thinks she'll be the easiest to beat

or if he likes the idea of another family dynasty in the making. As in, a Hillary victory takes the heat off of the Bush mob when they start pushing Jeb (aka The Restoration) in 2012. I can hear their rationale already: We kept Jeb on the sidelines in 2008 and lok what happened!

Normal people would counter that a Clinton win makes the Jebster less likely because America surely couldn't tolerate Bush Clinton Bush Clinton Bush. But our power families don't think like normal people, and, unless and until they are rejected, who can blame them.

[provis99]

10. there's just one thing that really confuses me

Someone got 23 adults squeezed into one dining room? :)

[1corona4u]

22. LOL...

it was probably like at my house...tables in the kitchen and dining room...

[cali]

23. nope.

buffet set up in the dining room and on the pass through counter to the kitchen, and family room and greenhouse room that opens in the family room set up with tables- including kids there were 31 of us.

Charades after dinner was a blast.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

11. The dynastic thing is interesting, as an objection

I know it's a serious concern to many, but I can't find it in me... I wasn't upset about Bush II being a Bush, either.

Picture whichever candidate you like most and then ask, would I vote against this person if his father were president? Myself, I can't imagine voting against a candidate I considered superior because he was related to other successful politicians.

I am trying to imagine anyone voting against Bush for that reason in 2000... I can't picture it. I have no doubt that a large percentage of Gore voters said they disliked the idea of a son succeeding his father after 8 years, but almost always in conjunction with some other more substantial reason for thinking Gore was the better choice.

Come to think of it, Gore, being Clinton's VP, was also a dynastic pick, since he was Clinton's chosen successor. Bradley voters felt it was best to break up the continuum of power... but probably in conjunction with some other reason to dislike Al Gore, or to love Bradley.

This is probably in the gut-feeling category you mentioned the other day... it reinforces other attitudes, but probably isn't a vote-moving issue in and of itself.

One can think Bush II only got in there because of his father, or Clinton is only the front-runner because of her husband, but both of those views carry the implication that the candidate is objectively inferior and is only where they are for reasons other than quality.

But that boils down to, "This candidate is objectively inferior," which is more than sufficient by itself.

[DaveinMD]

12. Vermont

has always had that anti-establishment streak. They voted for, including my wife, for Jerry Brown in 92.

[1932]

13. ...and did you try to convince any of them how awful any of those candidates are, and were you

successful in changing minds?

[cali]

25. no. I just did a brief around the room

quizzing of who supported which candidate. What surprised me most was that everyone had decided on a candidate. There are other things to talk about than politics- thankfully. I sat at a table with a green architect, an artisan cheesemaker, a horticultualist, a young woman attending her first year at Smith, an elderly farmer, a mechanic and a high school kid interested in theater; there was a lot to talk about outside of the political.

[wyldwolf]

15. for every piece of anecdotal evidence, there is some to counter it

Birthday party for friend of my wife's last weekend. About 50 people in attendance (including a few who worked in Kerry's campaign.) Solid Hillary preference in the room. In Georgia.

Lot of political talk. Comments ranged from Obama not being ready for a national election to Edwards coming across as a used car salesman. No mention of "dynasty" concerns. :shrug:

[BeyondGeography]

16. Amazing...50 people and they all agree 100% with you on everything

Do you at least root for different teams?

[wyldwolf]

17. so where exactly in my post did you gather that?

[BeyondGeography]

18. Comments ranged from Obama and Edwards basically sucking

Not much of a range there...

Hey, it doesn't matter. Hope you had a good time.

[wyldwolf]

19. so, you interpret that as 100% agreement? LOL! Hey, news for you.

People are going to disagree with you. I know you hate it. :rofl:

[AlertLurker]

20. Vermont. I think that explains the 4 votes for Kucinich.

Don't get me wrong - I really like his message. I wish more of the party felt as he does - especially with regards to first amendment rights and fifth amendment impeachment...

[1corona4u]

21. As I posted last night, here's the break down for my family and friends...

Today, there were 22 of us for Thanksgiving dinner. Out of that 22, all of us are either Dem or Ind. Not one of them or myself, will vote for Obama. Most said if he gets the nod, they will vote republican. Mitt Romney to be specific. This has been my worry all along with Obama....and I'm sure all of my family and friends are not unique in their thinking. Of course I preached Biden all day too.....

[Vickers]

24. "Most said if he gets the nod, they will vote republican."

Then they are stoopid.