Biden agrees with Obama on the strength of his foreign policy credentials

[Karmadillo]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/11/20/clinton-hits-obama-on-foreign-relations-experience/

<edit>

On Monday, Obama told an Iowa audience, "Probably the strongest experience I have in foreign relations is the fact that I spent four years living overseas when I was a child in Asia—Southeast Asia."

According to the campaign, Obama was six years old when he moved to Indonesia in 1967, and stayed until he was 10.

<edit>

Biden, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, also joined the fray Tuesday afternoon when asked what he thought of Obama's comments.

"I think he's right," Biden said smiling. "That is his strongest credential."

more...

[smheart78]

1. Wow Biden is good.

[Renew Deal]

45. He said the same thing as Hillary without the nastiness.

That's how it's done.

[ClarkUSA]

69. He's good alright - at taking Obama out of context. See "Clinton Mocks, Draws Rebukes" at WaPo...

Maybe someone should have sent Biden this article before he shot off his mouth:

Clinton Mocks, Draws Rebukes
Wednesday, November 21, 2007; Page A07

THE EXPERIENCE DEBATE
Clinton Mocks, Draws Rebukes

'At a campaign event in Iowa, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton mocked Sen. Barack Obama's statement Monday that living overseas as a child had given
him valuable insights about foreign policy. Clinton's comments drew a rebuke not only from Obama, but also from former senator John Edwards's
campaign...After learning of Clinton's comments, Obama responded during a town-hall-style meeting in a gym in Conway, N.H.

"I mentioned that one of the reasons that I got it right when it came to Iraq was because I lived overseas when I was a child," he said, according to
an account by the Associated Press. "It gives me some judgment and perspective around what other people think about America and how they might
react or respond when we make some of the decisions that we do."

"Of course, both the Republicans, in their talking points, as well as Senator Clinton said, 'Well, I don't think that what Senator Obama did when he was
10 years old is relevant to our national security.' I didn't say that."

The Edwards campaign rose in Obama's defense. Spokesman Chris Kofinis said, "Now we know what Senator Clinton meant when she talked about
'throwing mud' in the last debate. Like so many other things, when it comes to mud, Hillary Clinton says one thing and throws another."'

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/20/AR2007112001880.html

Taking cheap shots isn't going to make Biden look good, either.

[Tellurian]

81. HaHa, Biden zings Obama .. "strongest credential"

meaning "only" credential.

So, that means anyone who has lived in SE Asia for a few years, has Foreign Policy credentials!

Happy ThanksGiving, Joe!

:rofl:

[CrispyQ]

98. You're not alone in that sentiment!

Come visit us! http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=404

Welcome to DU, smheart78! :hi:

[MethuenProgressive]

102. What a bizarre world it is when 4 years as a child is "Foreign Policy Experience."

He spent more time than that in Hawaii - is he claiming he's a hula expert too? :rofl:

[mrfixit]

2. Biden's a little too smug and tongue-in-cheek for his own good....

But I like him, somewhat. I like Obama, too. Living in a foreign country for four years seems to be a little more experience than HRC passing canapes for Hubby at some friggin' state dinner...

But I digress - SUPPORT KUCINICH!!!

[cali]

12. sexist bullshit

I don't support clinton, but I fucking hate out and out sexism like your disgusting post. Yeah, that's all Clinton did- pass out canapes and of course you discount her 7 years in the Senate. Fucked up. Let me guess, you're a male, right?

[Debi]

35. I agree

Whatever people say about Senator Clinton's White House years, she did more than decorate and hold teas. :puke:

[PatSeg]

94. She was hardly a "Laura Bush"

Her time in the White House does count.

[0007]

97. OMFG! Not this clam bake again, LOL!!

Canapes anyone?

[1corona4u]

118. Hey, 2 can play this game....

[CyberPieHole]

39. Sexist flamebait!

Why are posts such as yours being allowed to stay on DU? Sexism is NOT frickin progressive. Grow up!

[IA_Seth]

41. And Iowa is rigged, right?

The only smug person round here seems to be you.

[Debi]

59. Seth, we all know that Kucinich is going to rise up from the campaign headquarters

he never opened and call out to his supporters that he never organized and rally them at events that he never held in Iowa to go caucus (and support John Edwards like he had them do in 2004?) x(

[treestar]

42. Odd combination to be a supporter of Kooch and a denigrator

of Hillary on rather sexist grounds - Hillary did more than that. Go after her for what she did, not the fact that her husband was president.

[emilyg]

57. Glad to know that's all Hillary did

:sarcasm:

[Evergreen Emerald]

3. That was a great response!

He is quick.

[momto3]

4. That is great.

Nobody has more foreign policy experience than Biden.

[1corona4u]

5. LOL...

gotta love his sense of humor...

[JohnnyBoots]

6. I think it is his sense of humor that will give him play in red states. n/t

[Froward69]

46. Not just his humor

but all the bashing by the Far left, would actually play out as STRENGTHS in the GE!! repukes would not attack him on those, at all. All they have is he is a DEMOCRAT.

[Cameron27]

7. lol

Biden comes up with some great zingers.

[Armstead]

8. Cheap shot, but funny

[ellacott]

10. I agree n/t

I guess all you could say in response is, ouch.

[rucky]

36. He was asked to comment.

it would've been tacky if he just offered an unsolicited statement, though.

[PatSeg]

9. Hillary dissed him too

but Biden used fewer words: "Now voters will judge whether living in a foreign country at the age of 10 prepares one to face the big, complex international challenges the next President will face," Clinton said. "I think we need a President with more experience than that."

Then Edwards campaign attacked Hillary for "mudslinging"!

[Tellurian]

82. Edwards is the Democrats biggest disappointment..

Just because we have a donkey as a mascot, Edwards chooses to act the part defending his partner in crime, Obama!

:dem:

:rofl:

[Tellurian]

83. Biden visits our soldiers fighting in Iraq for the 7th time..

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://biden.senate.gov/newsroom/presskit.cfm&h=600&w=915&sz=185&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=zVcwSXtSUSHWbM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=147&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBiden%2Bsoldiers%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

[BeyondGeography]

11. I tried to find a photo of Joe getting this kind of love overseas, but I couldn't

that's because nobody knows who the hell he is.

Obama...now that's another story entirely.

[1corona4u]

13. Where overseas exactly...n/t

[BeyondGeography]

14. Kenya...he's a hero there

and Joe Biden, on the other hand, is a hero in Bethany Beach.

[PatSeg]

24. That is an impressive picture

but it doesn't have anything to do with foreign diplomacy. How many times has Obama been to Iraq?

[Tellurian]

84. Obama visited once. Edwards has NEVER visited Iraq or our soldiers!

Mr. Nice Guy IS All Show No Go!

[Evergreen Emerald]

15. you are not suggesting that this photo-op shows that Obama

has more experience that Biden in foreign affairs?

[BeyondGeography]

17. No...but he'll have a much more positive impact as President than Biden

for the simple reason that Obama is of the world and Beltway Biden is of Delaware.

Obama is just as smart as Biden (many would say smarter) and he can and will acquire hands-on international experience. Biden will never have the charisma and the symbolic impact of Obama globally. Nor will any other candidate in this race.

[treestar]

43. Delaware is in the U.S., though

:hide:

Some photo of Biden being mobbed by admirers abroad could easily be found.

[juajen]

49. Wow, what an abominable thread!

I am amazed that this thread has not been locked. In addition to the absolute trashing of Hillary Clinton, you are seriously comparing the experience that Biden and Hillary have, unfavorably, to Obama's living abroad for four years as a child? Unreal! My observance is that some people's brains are in their little toe; you know, the one that was recently smashed by the foot of a seven ton elephant.

[BeyondGeography]

60. I post a photo that shows Obama is a hero in a foreign land

and all you and your ilk can do is scream like little children that Obama doesn't compare with Hilly and Joe internationally.

Show me anything that resembles the presence that Obama ALREADY has in a critical part of the world and I'll stop.

Hint: you can't.

[1corona4u]

54. Oh, give me a break....

now you're just saying stupid shit.

[Texas_Kat]

58. How about he run again once he's gotten some of that

'international experience'.

I'm glad that he's decided against lumping 'growing up in Hawaii' as 'international experience'.

[murbley40]

16. Is this not where he is from?

[BeyondGeography]

18. It's where his father is from

[1corona4u]

20. Funny....

and yet, it was Joe Biden that called for action in Darfur...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18059937/

[BeyondGeography]

21. I have no argument with Biden's foreign policy credentials

even if he flubbed IWR. But it's foolish for Democrats to make a joke of Obama's biography and its relevance to foreign policy.

[Cameron27]

22. Well, I honestly don't find much relevance

in the fact that someone lived in a foreign country when he was 10 years old and younger. Yeah he was exposed to a different culture in one country, but so are millions of other kids. That doesn't make them experts on international diplomacy and foreign relations...and it leads to funny comments like Biden's.

[BeyondGeography]

25. See photo above

He is known and admired in Kenya and all over western Africa. Not a bad start.

Also, travel and living overseas is enormously important. Those millions of kids you refer to know probably still know more about the world than our current President. Just off of my four years in France back in the early 80's where I met and was friendly with lots of Muslims from North Africa and throughout the Middle East (including Osama bin Laden's half sister...don't tell Homeland Security, oops I just did), I knew we'd be hated for setting foot in Iraq and that his vision of representative democracy spreading across the region was a hopeless fantasy.

America is an isolated, powerful monster of a country with a determinant role in the world. We need as many people as we can get in public life with the type of personal experience that Obama has. For the supposedly enlightened Democratic Party to be belittling this type of background is to be expected during primary season. But it makes those who do it look like yokels anyway.

[Cameron27]

30. You know katz

everything you say is true about traveling around the world at a young age. And if George Bush traveled to every country on earth at any age, he still would remain the imbecile that he is. I just think it's foolish for Obama to frame his credentials in that way.
I'm not belittling it at all, I just don't think that 6 years in a kids life is something to attach to experienced foreign policy. It's a great anecdote, and he could have used it in that way. Just my opinion.

[BeyondGeography]

31. All of us Obamatons aren't named Katz

but thanks for mistaking me for the truest and best of the believers anyway.

:hi: :toast:

[Cameron27]

32. ROFL

I love katz, well not really, but you're both great guys. Sorry for the mixup.

[1corona4u]

33. We saw the photo.....

Here's a few for you;

Joe Biden, Iraq;
(can't get these to display)
?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19343A7C5B91993BDB00EDAE8FCB1A5F1A7284831B75F48EF45
?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19343A7C5B91993BDB03DF5B1C0BFA2CBCF284831B75F48EF45




And then there is the senate photo album;

http://biden.senate.gov/photogallery/index.php

THAT shows but a fraction of who he is, and where he's been. Joe Biden is not a one trick pony. You're lying to yourself if you think otherwise.

[monmouth]

51. I just clicked to make this my "background" photo. Wonderful post..

[1corona4u]

56. I don't know what he was saying to them....

but I noticed how most all of them are intently focused on him...except for the MP, who appears to be looking at the camera...

[PatSeg]

62. Great photo!

But where's the fake turkey and the $5.00 rugs?

[Tellurian]

86. sometimes a duplicate post is great..

like minds and all that..

Happy Thanksgiving!

[treestar]

44. I won't argue with the second sentence of your second paragraph

But we need a real big, big improvement on Chimpy.

[ginchinchili]

100. Obama's a great guy, but he has no foreign policy experience worth running on

That's just a fact. I hardly think Obama can argue during a debate w/the Republican nominee that an example of his foreign policy credentials is that he's admired in Kenya.

Look, he's a smart guy. In 8 years he'll be a shoe-in. If he's lucky enough to win now, he won't be as successful as he would be after 8 years of experience. Put him in now and if he stumbles we will be hurting the future chances of black candidates for years to come. Put him in office in 8 years he will be in a better position to do a good job and help the futures of all minority candidates. It's an important decision and needs to be thought through carefully.

[rucky]

37. Was Obama touting it as experience?

these things get twisted out of context pretty easily.

If he was, it's fair game. If not, I'd say it was the Hillary camp that distorted it, and the media hopped on board.

[Froward69]

47. Darfour

is just one of a plethora of reasons to support Biden.

[Byronic]

23. Aw, come on......

What's wrong with having a playful little dig at a rival candidate? There is a danger that everybody becomes ridiculously thin-skinned during a primary campaign.

Biden said it with a smile, and no doubt with a twinkle in his eye.

He was responding to a question, and he responded with mischief and in quite a clever way in my opinion. Biden is very quick on his feet.

Oh, the fun he would have with Rudy......

[BeyondGeography]

26. Nothing at all...and what's wrong with digging back?

[Byronic]

27. Nothing at all

Just lacked a little Biden sparkle and fun, that's all ;-)

I like Obama. In fact, I like practically all of our candidates this time around. And, no matter who wins the nomination, I am sure we will all come together to give the Republican nominee the hiding of a lifetime come November 2008

:toast:

[BeyondGeography]

29. I always look forward to Biden at the debates

if sense of humor was what people were looking for above any other quality, he'd be president for the next eight years. No one can touch him in that department.

[Byronic]

34. Yeah, I know what you mean.

and if people were looking for the most experienced, knowledgeable candidate then he would be in the top tier right now too.

This is an exciting field. It really is. I am certain that the American people will elect a Democrat this time around, but they usually need a helpful nudge in the right direction: the Democratic nominee needs to harness the qualities of the other candidates. We will all come together. If Obama wins the nomination (and what an historic moment that would be), he really should just point Biden at his hapless Republican opponent and say: "Kill." Joe would do it with a smile on his face.

That being said: Biden for President!

[1corona4u]

28. I know, right....that would be hysterical....

[lyonn]

71. Obama's dad was born and raised in Kenya. nt

[Jennifer C]

75. Well I'm in Australia

A number of people that I've spoken to (at least the folks down here with an interest in politics and foreign affairs) do know of Biden.

I like both Biden and Obama. I think they'd make a great team.

[BeyondGeography]

80. Me too, but not in that order

;)

[ginchinchili]

99. Well there you have it!

Vote for Obama because he got a group of people overseas excited. You inadvertently point out Obama's weakness: he doesn't have enough experience to be president so his supporters have to make something out of nothing. Obama will be ready in 8 years. He's not ready now. He won't be president in 2009. The only thing he could possibly do is cause the Democrats to lose another presidential election.

[1corona4u]

103. That's exactly what I think....n/t.

[SaveElmer]

19. Good one...

:rofl:

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

38. Ouch!

[CyberPieHole]

40. LOL...

:spray:

:kick: and recommend.

[MGKrebs]

48. Good Biden interview in Salon:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/11/21/biden/index.html?source=newsletter

[Basileus Basileon]

50. Ouch. Biden shows Hillary how to bring it. nt

[Clintonista2]

52. Zing! Go Biden!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[jillan]

61. I think you are the only one on this thread that gets it.

[David Zephyr]

53. Joe is showing the others how to campaign without being nasty.

Here's how one can show differences with another candidate without becoming petulant. John Edwards should take ntoes from Biden.

[1corona4u]

55. Exactly. n

n/t

[Lucinda]

63. Brilliant.

:)

[BootinUp]

64. lol nt

[loyalsister]

65. This whole discussion is a bummer

The whole point Obama and Seymore Hersh were trying to make was that living in another culture at a young age was an experience that made an impression that helped form his character. He knows and cares about things other than baseball and apple pie.
Pretty much everyone can agree that unusual life changing events that happen at a young age leave a strong impression. Since that is a universal, it follows that there is a good chance that leaders in other countries would recognize this.
It is not about experience for a resume, but the kind of experiences that create us.
That the Clinton was so ready to use the resume definition and ridicule him was predictable, that so many duers would participate was not predictable.

[ClarkUSA]

67. B-I-N-G-O

But by all means, let Biden and Clinton score characteristically cheap shots taking Obama out of context.

Maybe he'll hit 3% in Iowa after this.

[1corona4u]

68. Huh?

You said;

Since that is a universal, it follows that there is a good chance that leaders in other countries would recognize this.


Now, how would any other leader of the world even know? Do you think they read all of our presidents bio's? I don't think your thought was very logical really.

Look, you Obama people see something that a lot of us don't, and never will. I said it a long time ago, he needs another 10 years, then he'll be ready. I stand by that, and firmly believe it.

[loyalsister]

70. Think what you like

And vote how you like.
Diplomatic politics is all about context and getting in the other person's head to see where they are coming from and how they came to believe what they do. If you don't think that world leader's take the time to get biographical sketches of one another you are kidding yourself.
One reason Bush is bad at it is he doesn't care who other people are or what their lives are about.

Obama is the most removed from the classic narcissistic American.

on edit: I forgot to include Kucinnich. He is also far removed.

[1corona4u]

73. And so is Biden. n/t

[loyalsister]

117. Seriously????

When he makes the public admission that he lives a life of white priviledge and offers some instance of at least having some remarkable proximity to removing himself from it, I will entertain that possibility. Otherwise... I can't be gin to find agreement there.
However, I like Biden's foreign policy position better than Obama, so I do have respect for him. No person who has stepped outside of white priviledge could have voted for that bankruptcy bill. I may wind up holding my nose. On domestic issues he is one of the worst, IMO.

The idea is that knowing that kind of poverty has an influence on foreign policy. On of the things that has bothered many of us is that poverty and illness = violence Obama gets it. Biden is all over physical violence and a very good diplomat. But there are things he still does not understand.

[ClarkUSA]

66. What's Biden's strongest FP credential? Sitting on committees for decades?

His foreign policy experience must not have been very good, because he voted for to give a blank check to Bush via IWR,
I guess Biden was for it before he was against it.

[KittyWampus]

72. he managed to come up with a feasible plan for Iraq and got both Dems & GOP'ers to vote for it.

[ClarkUSA]

74. Big deal. If he had such great FP "experience", then why did he vote for IWR?

When it came to the biggest foreign policy blunder in U.S. history, Biden was wrong and Obama was right.
Before he shoots off his mouth again, maybe he'd better remember that.

[Byronic]

78. Shoots his mouth off?

Come on now. He was asked a question and he answered it.

Plus, he agreed with what Obama said.

They were Obama's words not Joe's.
;)

[ClarkUSA]

105. That's right.

YouTube has plenty of examples of Biden's foot-in-mouth problems. Go do a search and get the popcorn.

As for his snark attack on Obama, it shows even more that Biden is better suited to a stand-up routine in Vegas than
the Oval Office. Say, has he broken the 5% ceiling yet in Iowa?

lol

[Byronic]

107. I am very familiar with Biden's past.

Everybody mis-speaks at times. Biden is a straight-shooter. That happens. Joe has been very disciplined throughout the campaign. Every candidate has said something they either didn't mean, or was misconstrued (whether wilfully or otherwise).

And you call THAT a 'snark ATTACK'? It was a witty response. Classy too.

We all really DO need a sense of humor to get through the primaries, I guess.

Iowa is difficult to guage but I think Biden will surprise you on caucus night.

[ClarkUSA]

113. Yes, I call it a snark attack.

Maybe someone should ask him why all his much-ballyhooed FP "experience" didn't prevent him from voting for the worst
foreign policy blunder in American history. The answer: decades of warming the bench in Senate committees means nothing
in terms of good judgment and political courage in the face of public opinion.

We'll see what happens caucus night but at the moment, Richardson - another pro-Iraq War cheerleader-turned-antiwar
advocate - is in fourth place while Biden is consistently polling under 5%.

[1corona4u]

114. LOL...

yes, he has been diciplined. Here is my favorite debate moment for Joe;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XberX_t-WvI

How can you NOT love him!?! :-)

[Think82]

116. Obama thinks biden's exit strategy "might be the way to go". He conveniently missed the vote for it.

Obama also said he wasn't sure how he would have voted had he been in the senate and had access to the faulty intelligence reports. Biden also attempted, along with Dick Lugar, to get a more restrictive resolution passed, which was voted down. Biden also held hearings for 6 months warning about the dangers of overthrowing the gov. Instead of letting the inspectors (who were in the country) do their jobs. A simple "yes" or "no" on the authorization does not sum up the complicated issue of Iraq. Grow up.

[Lucinda]

76. Here ya go.

http://biden.senate.gov/documents/BidenRecordForeign.pdf

[whirlygigspin]

77. score 1 for Biden

ziiiinnnng!


Try to remember, whoever is chosen will have to go up against the republican smear machine.

I don't think any of the other candidates have the ability to totally decimate the repukes(and take away their supporters), like Biden.

That said, democratic history does not bode well in choosing strong candidates.
(snatching defeat from the jaws of victory)

So I won't be surprised if that happens, again.

but more importantly, most people are so caught up in the 'beauty pageant' flavor of the month that they aren't focusing on the problems of 2000 and 2004, (rigged elections)

frankly, it makes me question people's priorities.

"you have a democracy, if you can keep it" indeed.

[Byronic]

79. 'Sitting on a committee'?

From Brezhnev to the Balkans, from Milosevic to Musharraf, decade after decade, Biden has been a respected adept in foreign policy.

World leaders don't just place a phonecall to any old hobbledehoy in times of crisis you know.

There was a very good reason that John Kerry was seriously considering making Biden his Secretary of State had he become President.

Biden has VERY sound credentials on foreign policy.

But, I'm sure you knew that already.

[sundancekid]

85. when will Biden ever learn the pitfalls of "being 2 cute by half" --- he has a lot of foreign policy

experience that would be quite worthwhile in a Secretary of State post, but his biggest enemy will continue to be himself ... he seems to be unable to stand anywhere and not be in the limelight ... a fool flatters himself, a wise man flatters the fool ...

[1corona4u]

87. Tell me....

what specifically are you basing your comment/opinion on?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

120. an little man who lives in the toaster

[Inuca]

90. As opposed to

all the other presidential candidates who shy away from the limelight. Come on!

[Think82]

109. Ummm...

"A wise man flatters the fool." See Biden's comment about Obama above. ZING

[Dawgs]

88. And it took Biden 30+ years of foreign policy experience to decide that the Iraq war was a good idea

I'll go with Obama.

[1corona4u]

92. Oh yeah right, 77 others voted as well....23 said no...

And, by the way, no one said it was "a good idea". They voted to use force IF NEEDED. No one thought that Bush would circumvent congress and attack Iraq without going back to congress on it. And, if you are suggesting that Obama was smarter than all of them,, then I would point out to you, he wasn't even in the senate at the time of the vote. So it's easy for him to say he was against it, because he wasn't even there, to see the case being made by the Bush administration. Here's a comment from Obama, from this past May;

"I think what people might point to is our different assessments of the war in Iraq," Obama said at the time, "although I’m always careful to say that I was not in the Senate, so perhaps the reason I thought it was such a bad idea was that I didn't have the benefit of U.S. intelligence."

The "vote" to use force was approved on October 11th, 2002. Obama gave ONE speech(that I can find...) to an anti-war rally, in Chicago, on October 26th, 2002. The "war" didn't even start until March 20th, 2003. Obama was speaking out, in the most general terms about going to war in Iraq. He had no idea what the congress was being spoon fed by Bush. As you can see from the votes below, 77 others were also lied to.


Grouped By Vote Position YEAs ---77
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bond (R-MO)
Breaux (D-LA)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Campbell (R-CO)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carnahan (D-MO)
Carper (D-DE)
Cleland (D-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Cochran (R-MS)
Collins (R-ME)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
Daschle (D-SD)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dodd (D-CT)
Domenici (R-NM)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Edwards (D-NC)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Fitzgerald (R-IL)
Frist (R-TN)
Gramm (R-TX)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Helms (R-NC)
Hollings (D-SC)
Hutchinson (R-AR)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Miller (D-GA)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Nickles (R-OK)
Reid (D-NV)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Santorum (R-PA)
Schumer (D-NY)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-NH)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thompson (R-TN)
Thurmond (R-SC)
Torricelli (D-NJ)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)

NAYs ---23
Akaka (D-HI)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Chafee (R-RI)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Graham (D-FL)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Reed (D-RI)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wyden (D-OR)


Honestly, I could care less who voted for/against the Iraq authorization to use force. It's not even something I ever considered as a factor for who I would/would not vote for. We weren't there, we didn't see what they were being told. I get sick of hearing people act as if Obama is the messiah, who, somehow, knew more than anyone else did. Colin Powell, who addressed the UN, made a pretty convincing case, based on lies, as we now know, but even then, some democrats were starting to question it, and how damaging it would be, including Biden;

By Sean Loughlin
CNN Washington Bureau
Wednesday, February 5, 2003 Posted: 7:05 PM EST (0005 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Secretary of State Colin Powell won praise Wednesday from Capitol Hill for his presentation to the United Nations, but some lawmakers, primarily Democrats, said questions remain about what the next step should be in the confrontation with Iraq.

Biden, D-Delaware, stressed that President Bush needs to do a better job of preparing the American public for a long-term commitment of U.S. armed forces in Iraq. Many people, Biden said, believe a military strike against Iraq would be "bloodless" and that U.S. troops would return home quickly.

"Johnny will not come marching home. We will be required to stay in-country with tens of thousands of forces for an extended period of time," Biden said, adding that such an endeavor would cost billions of dollars.



Joe also said that he regretted his vote, because Bush misused his authority. Which is the whole reason he said NO on the Kyle Lieberman bill. Which, by the way, Obama didn't even show up to vote on. Or the SCHIP bill.

[ClarkUSA]

104. Exactly.

:thumbsup:

[Think82]

110. Biden never thought it was a good idea. He tried to limit the mission, but wanted to put pressure on

Saddam to get inspectors in. Bush attacked while the inspectors were in the country, then, to make things worse, had an completely incompetent policy after the fall of Saddam, which fueled the insurgency, which then got out of control.

Not all people vote "yes" with the same motivation. I'm sick of lumping all 77 yea's into the same category

[ClarkUSA]

111. That's the same BS Hillaryworld is peddling. Both of them are covering their asses.

Neither of them can get away from the fact that they both got it wrong when it came to the worst foreign policy blunder in U.S. history.

So much for "experience".

When it comes to WAR, I don't care HOW anyone reached their decision. I want them to make the RIGHT decision.

[Think82]

115. you are REALLY oversimplifying, using bumper sticker statements to sum up a complicated issue.

IMO. Besides, Biden has the solution for Iraq now, whcih got 49 dems and 26 repubs to support it.
What's your solution? What's your candidate saying, except for bitching about not going to war originally? Does he have a solution? Does he support Joe's idea? Hillary and Dodd voted for the Biden exit strategy, Obama missed the vote, but has tentatively said it "might be the right way to go". Richardson has also said as much.

[ClarkUSA]

119. It was very simple when it came to voting to give Bush a blank check: DON'T DO IT.

Glossing over his IWR vote to harp about his benchwarmer "solution for Iraq" is laughable. What's next, going to Iraq for yet another
"foreign policy" resumé filler/Green Zone photo-op?

[Didereaux]

89. cuss him all you want Obama-ites, but Biden ate yer boy up with that one!

[CTLawGuy]

91. is being "clean" and "articulate"

also a foreign policy credential, Joe Biden? :eyes:

[PatSeg]

93. Yep, "clean", like in corruption-free

and "articulate" as in being able to express oneself clearly and intelligently.

The MSM takes a non-story and turns it into a headline, and people encourage them by repeating it over and over again. It was just another way for the MSM to avoid reporting REAL news. Must have been a slow Brittney day.

[1corona4u]

95. You're so right....

it was a non issue. And, Obama's comment on it;

Obama Responds
And notably, Obama himself didn't do much to knock the story down.

Asked about the comments at a press conference this afternoon, Obama said, "you'd have to ask Senator Clinton, uh, Senator Biden what he was thinking," initially stumbling by mentioning the name of the Democratic front-runner for the nomination, Sen. Hillary Clinton of New York. "I don't spend too much time worrying about what folks are talking about during a campaign season."



(apparently, he has changed his stance on "what folks are talking about during campaign season" now though......)

[PatSeg]

96. Sadly, the majority of issues discussed in the MSM

are "non issues"!

[Didereaux]

101. BINGO! and the worst offenders are DEMOCRATS....

Specifically the kneejerk touchy-feelies who when not cussing and slamming the MSM are busy cussing and slamming someone else based upon some MSM story or another...further proof that no such thing as a just deity exists, or those types wouldn't!

[PatSeg]

106. Justice is a man-made concept

Any deity is just an objective observer of our triumphs and failures. If we are so naive to buy into the crap that is fed us, then we deserve what we get. I am always hopeful that we can and will rise above the hype. I am often wrong however, but I keep hoping.

[Didereaux]

108. point taken...NO deity exists, just or otherwise! n/t

[1corona4u]

112. Ditto. n/t