My 2 cents

[KingOfLostSouls]

I've posted sporadically over a number of years but lurk quite a bit. heres my two cents.

I think at this point infighting and going negative is wrong. I think by attacking the front runner, the two 2nd placers are really leaving a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. I myself have split my decisions to support bill richardson or joe biden. in recent weeks, I've decided to support joe biden. the one reason? in all the debates, biden has been the one who has consistently attacked THE REPUBLICANS. he refuses to get himself drawn into the tit-for-tat between the 3 front runners and kucinich. he's stated repeatedly that any democrat on the stage with him would be a far better choice than any republican. and I agree. biden earned my respect when he refused to let chris matthews drag him into attacking hilary, attacking edwards and instead has reserved his most pointed venom towards the republican front runner, making him look like an idiot. is it any wonder wolf blitzer didn't want to give him any mic time at the last debate? the last thing the conservative dominated media wants is a democrat reminding other democrats to attack each other less and instead go after the GOP.

if biden doesn't get the nomination, and I believe he is the most qualified and the only guy putting forward some much needed foreign policy plans, then I will support whoever our partie's candidate may be. be it barack obama, hilary clinton, or john edwards, each one has some kind of baggage of their own, some kind of political expediency. some lack long term experience. but compared to mitt romney? fred thompson? rudy giuliani? thats not even a choice.

ladies and gentleman, the simple fact is we are in the 2nd civil war of america. we have been since january 20th, 2001 when a man who had not won the election was sworn into another man's office. but instead of fighting at the battlefields of the north and south, it is a war of ideas, a war for the soul of the nation. and I for one would rather support someone who agrees with me 90% of the time and is open to the other 10% than give up the election to someone who doesn't support me at all. we cannot afford another 8 years of the republican party, period.

anyone who hasn't yet realized this truly is deaf, dumb, and blind to reality around them.

[Mythsaje]

1. So don't care.

This is a battle for the future of America, and, by extension, the world. It's a battle against the greedy bastards who'll rape everything for their short-term goals and leave the rest of us sweating and gasping in a sweltering heap while they continue to hoard the last of the resources to live in secluded comfort on what could well be a dying world.

EVERYTHING comes down to that. Foreign policy, alternate energy, environmental protection, free trade, outsourcing, the war on terror, etc.

EVERYTHING. It's about how these few motherfuckers can take everything from everyone else and do whatever the hell they want while the rest of the planet suffers. While they continue to poison the air, the sea, and watch the ice slough off the arctic and antarctic knowing that no matter WHAT happens, they can jump on a plane and go to where they'll be safe and comfortable.

It's these gawdawful pricks and their inside access to the halls of power, and their goddamn golden parachutes that leave them sitting pretty while their employees are struggling to survive, while our young men and women return from the horrors of war maimed in mind and body, if they return alive at all, just to make some of their friends and associates even wealthier than they already were.

Maybe if the front runner made ANY attempt to address this side of things rather than leaving it to the 2nd and 3rd place contenders, maybe some of us would consider her more than a corporate candidate whose only problem with the way things are going is that SHE'S not calling the shots. That the problem wasn't that we were LIED into war, but that they fucked it all up beyond recognition.

Since this whole campaign started, that's the impression I've had, and I'm STILL waiting for something, anything, to convince me--or even tempt me--to believe otherwise.

Attacking the Repugs is easy. But they AIN'T the only possible enemy. Anyone who's in the pockets of the oligarchs is JUST as much an enemy. And perhaps an even worse one, because they're wearing our colors and working for the other side.

And I despair of anyone who hasn't figured THAT out yet.

[KingOfLostSouls]

2. hmm...

nice rant. I wonder which part where I said I even endorsed the front runner?


I've been watching these little flame wars here for quite some time. the self righteousness of the kucinich supporters. the smug attacks from the obama and edwards supporters. the constant defense at the slightest apparent slight from the hilary supporters.

I'd remind each of them of the blindness of ideology. kucinich was anti-choice for the longest time. edwards and hilary voted for the war. obama has cast bad votes as well. each one has some failings that are easy to point out, none of them are ideologically perfect. and its these ideologues who have championed these four on here more than anything that undoubtedly would be turning others off from the political process. how refreshing would it be to hear edwards say, "as much as I may disagree with senator clinton on some topics, we do have a lot of common ground, and here's how I'll distinguish it." or clinton say, "even though I feel I would be the most qualified, I do feel senator obama is head and shoulders above our competition." in fact, I think edwards and obama have made a fatal flaw by going negative against hilary clinton with so much time left. I could easily point out the flawed naivety of kucinich to the reality of the larger world, that unfortunately, there ARE people who want to kill us and no department of peace is going to solve that. I could point out hilary's willingness to work with people associated with blackwater. or edwards votes for NAFTA and suddenly deciding after being DLC, he's a populist overnight. I could bring up obama's willingness to talk change, then simply repeating vague answers that don't always have substance and his willingness to go negative and play politics as usual.

the dodd, richardson, and biden supporters seem to be the ones who genuinely want open and honest debate. probably why I'm supporting biden is the reaction of the political "crips and bloods" some fellow DU'ers have become. I thought biden's good natured joke about bill richardson saying he'd make a "great secretary of state" was hilarious because it revealed a level of comradeship with his opponent.

and before I hear any more self righteousness, I've already lost friends to this war. I'm watching friends come back who say they don't know how to walk around without a rifle in their hands, who can't even interact with other people. its my generation who will inherit this earth and whats left behind. I'm very well aware of the consquences of the next election. I'm well aware of the costs of health care, of golden parachutes. but that can only be won by working for our party as a whole.


honestly, its starting to remind me of schoolyard cliques a bit. if the bigger picture is what you say it is, then I'd remind fellow democrats and liberals of one thing. none of us are stupid. if we were, we wouldn't be democrats. the negativity and insults should be taken as an insult to the intelligence of people who post here. democrats, by and large I've found, are more than willing to hear issues, listen to ideas, and actually pay attention to facts. we shouldn't need to reduce our ideas to bumper stickers to beat each other with. save that for romney and giuliani to sit around and see who can torture and lie more.

[Mythsaje]

3. It's not about ideology anymore.

It's about trying to put everything back together after this debacle of an administration is over. It's about turning the tide on the erosion of civil rights, it's about protecting the environment, seeking alternate forms of energy, finding funding for the best alternatives, restoring the balance of power between the three branches.

I wasn't here for the last Presidential election. I don't get mired in the personal attacks. Personally I don't give a shit about any of that. I don't care about race, religion, color, or gender. I don't even care if the candidate has unsavory vices. I just want the candidate to be aware and willing to take the steps necessary to FIX this crap. For me, it's about the issues, and, as I've already laid out, I think all the issues boil down to the class war they've declared on everyone who doesn't own a yacht, their own plane, and at least three homes in three different time zones they visit whenever the hell they feel like it.

Every other issue is really just window dressing--a symptom of the larger problem. One that if it's not addressed, is going to screw not only America, but damn well lead the rest of the world down the primrose path to destruction.

[KingOfLostSouls]

4. I agree

the whole class warfare thing is there. however, repairing everything this administration has done isn't going to be easy. I feel it won't even be settled by the time the next two presidential election cycles are over with. and thats if a democrat does win. the long term effects of the bush administration are so horribly bad, they're going to be effecting us 15-20 years into the future, easily.

its why its imperitive that whichever person gets the nomination, be it ultra-leftist dennis kucinich or moderate hilary clinton, that we understand they're going to work with us rather than a rudy giuliani or mitt romney who won't work at all.

not to mention all the senate races since the senate is the key to getting everything passed.

the bush administration is so horribly bad, so corrupt, so terrible, that getting a worse candidate (giuliani, thompson, romney) and continuing and accelerating that is something too terrible to imagine. enabling that is just too scary to imagine.

theres a lot of naderites who probably thought "voting ideology" was a good thing in 2000 who are probably kicking themselves in the ass when their kid came home in a box.

[Mythsaje]

5. Which is why I'll vote for any Democratic candidate

once the decision has been made. But I'm going to be shouting my head off in the meantime.

[Lancer1701]

6. I agree! Hear, hear!

None of the candidates is perfect. and guess what, none of them is going to be a perfect President. It comes down to who has the ability to win and get most of the agenda through congress and do better than the Republicans. Does any of you seriously think that a President Hillary Clinton would be worse than a President Rudy Giuliani or President Mitt Romney?

I doubt it. So I agree that everyone should stop with the "who can beat Clinton" stuff and focus on who can best beat the Republicans.

An imperfect Hillary Clinton Presidency has to be better than the Republican alternatives, right?

It's like the Australian election at the moment. We've got Bush's buddy Prime Minister John Howard or Opposition leader Kevin Rudd who is essentially John Howard-lite on some issues. No one thinks that Rudd is perfect but we know he ain't Howard and that's good enough that he'll probably win next weekend at the election.

and for those Kucinich supporters, why not put your efforts into getting him into a position where he would be really useful and do the most good for the country: Speaker of the House of Reps.

[Perry Logan]

7. Electoral victory is assured. This isn't over till the back of the Republican Party is broken.