I'm proudly voting 3rd... because I want women to use these...

[Endangered Specie]

http://store2.yimg.com/I/hangercity_1781_1218681

Plain and simple

[kiahzero]

1. Thank you (n/t)

[MajorFlaw]

4. My mother was friends with . . .

someone who used one of those. She died, as a result. I don't find this particularly amusing.

[kiahzero]

13. I don't find it amusing

That people would be willing to let people like your mother's friend die because of a false need for purity.

[Maddy McCall]

14. Major, I am very sorry about your mother's friend...

but, with no regret I must say that women on whose behalf I work who have had abortions are still alive.

It isn't amusing--it is a sad commentary and is not meant at all be me comedic.

The retrogression of women's reproductive rights so far, AND in the future, under the Bush administration is enough of a reason to be ABB.

Hugs to you for the sadness that this evokes--but please join me in celebrating the fact that women can have safe abortions today--at least during the immediate present. This may not be so in a year.

[MajorFlaw]

62. jchild, I suspect we are mostly in agreement.

I appreciate your sentiments about my mother's friend, but she died about 10 years before I was born (c.1949) and I never got to know her. My loss too.
This issue first came up when I was under 10 years of age. I was buying a birthday card for someone when I saw a "gag" gift which I didn't understand. It was a coat hanger with the label, "Home Abortion Kit" attached. I didn't get it; not the set up, not the joke, so I asked my mother. She started to explain what is obvious now, but couldn't finish. I think it's the first time I saw my mother cry. Eventually she gave me a biologically accurate albeit emotional explanation for her reaction.
In response to your post, if you are protecting the safety, health and right to choose for all women, you have nothing to regret. Quite the contrary, you should be proud. You are also on target with your (our) ABB position. I have never and would never vote for a candidate who would, of course, allow the wealthy to take care of their "problem" overseas while making less well off American women resort to coat hangers.
Hugs back at you.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

2. are you afraid to fight my good sir?

are you afraid to fight for inherent rights? Are you willing to take the easy way out?

[demgrrrll]

6. If the period of time that we have suffered under this regime is any

indication people are not going to start taking to the streets as their civil liberties are eroded. The media is not going
to assist in awakening the masses The easy way out is already gone. Pragmatism is key here, not tilting at windmills.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

9. but pragmatism doesn't instill passion for change.

You know passion in order to have people willing to fight with their whole self and not just a lackluster self that is driven by "pragmatism"

[WillyBrandt]

12. I've got a total passion for change, more than I've ever had

[wyldwolf]

25. Exactly! The democratic party is more energized than ever...

THAT is passion for change!

[ngGale]

3. Boy! Do you ever have that right...

OMG--Bush can make that happen probably within the next 2 years if reelected. SCREAM--SCREAM-SCREAM--

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

5. Once abortion is outlawed sex will be far too risky....we'll use these

Time for a new Lysestrata Movement...no nookie for third party voters.

[Maddy McCall]

10. Actually, the guy that Bush just appointed to the FDA...

is a proponent of women "relieving anxiety" through "daily walks with Christ." That's a step forward to the 17th century.

[Stuckinthebush]

63. Actually, I tried that method to relieve anxiety

and Jesus and I would get in so many deep discussions and arguments that I had to give it up because of my nerves.

[countmyvote4real]

7. And I thought the headline was scary.

Then I saw the TRUTH.

Yikes.

[tedoll78]

8. A-frickin'-men!

There's no wriggling out of this reality.

Now all we need are some videos of gay folks being handcuffed and walked to cop cars for having sex in the privacy of their own homes.

And then maybe a picture of children in public schools having the recite the Lord's Prayer.. even if they don't believe in it.

And then maybe charts of plant emissions showing before and after the EPA's power to regulate them is stuck-down.

And perhaps footage of a mentally retarded 10-year-old girl being electro-executed would make a good point.

It has to get worse before it can get better, right? :eyes:

[MurikanDemocrat]

11. I trust you're being sarcastic

:wow:

[Maddy McCall]

15. What was that line in 2000? "W is for Women?"

How many women participated in this November 2003 event?

[La_Serpiente]

16. this one says it all

[Democat]

17. I'm glad you're sticking to your principles!

Don't let those ABB people sway your vote - do what makes you happy!

[Qanisqineq]

18. As a woman that has had an abortion,

(yes, I will freely admit it) I have a hard time finding this humorous in the least.

And I'm usually pretty difficult to offend.

[roguevalley]

19. Frankly, I didn't think it was intended humorously. i felt it was a

serious visual to a serious issue.

RV, who remembers before roe v wade and EVEN remembers when divorce
was illegal in the usa

[DemBones DemBones]

20. When was divorce illegal? You must mean

in one state or something but I don't remember even that. Certainly it wasn't as easy to get a divorce, but it was legal.

[iamjoy]

42. Divorce wasn't exactly illegal...

But there was no such thing as "no fault" divorce. It had to be for abandonment, adultery or cruelty. Often, if a man was the supposed "offender", it was very hard for the woman to make a case - she had to have proof of his adultery and the cruelty really had to be excessive. Excessive was at the discretion of the courts.

[iamjoy]

44. Was It Supposed To Be Funny?

I thought it was meant to be a sobering reminder.

[zoeyfong]

21. Aren't kerry voters equally reponsible for nominating him, when they know

he can't win because he won't get the anti-war vote? Why are third party voters under an obligaion to vote for your candidate, but you're under no obligation to vote for ours? If you care so much about coat-hanger abortions, maybe you shouldn't nominate kerry.

[MaineDem]

31. Perhaps I misread your comments

A Kerry Administration is one that women should applaud. Women will be much better served by President Kerry that * from day one.

John Kerry believes that women have the right to control their own bodies, their own lives, and their own destinies. He believes that the Constitution protects their right to choose and to make their own decisions in consultation with their doctor, their conscience, and their God. He will defend this right as President. He recently announced he will support only pro-choice judges to the Supreme Court. Kerry also believes that we should promote family planning and health plans should assure women contraceptive coverage.

John Kerry was an original cosponsor of the Violence Against Women Act, which has provided over $1 billion for battered women's shelters, hotlines, and other crucial resources. The Violence Against Women Act also significantly strengthened federal law by including several new federal crimes and enhanced penalties for acts of domestic violence. John Kerry will take this commitment to the White House and support those working to help crime victims and put attackers behind bars.

[AntiCoup2K4]

46. Evidence of Kerry's commitment to ending violence against women

http://www.refuseandresist.org/war/art.php?aid=673

[kiahzero]

48. Who says we've no obligation to vote for yours?

Had your candidate gotten enough support to win primaries, ABB people would have supported your candidate in the GE.

If you care so much about coat-hanger abortions, maybe you shouldn't nominate kerry.

This is the most blatent example of anti-ABB blackmail I've yet seen.

[JI7]

22. that's how i see it, and don't forget separation of church and state

just 1 or 2 changes in the court and we will lose our right to choose and separation of church and state. and you better believe the right wing will nominate some who are young enough to serve for years, decades. so even if a democratic candidate got elected again they wouldn't have the power to get enough change in the court until years later again. this is why i said i will vote democratic in november no matter what. i said this in 2000 and gave this as the reason people should not vote green or any other third party.

[Endangered Specie]

34. I intend to do more of these, Church-State will be one of them

[Maddy McCall]

40. GOOD

:thumbsup:

[BruinAlum]

23. *gulp*

You got my attention.:(

[REP]

24. Thank You for Getting It

Not relegating women to being second-class citizens is an extremely important issue this election. I wish more people understood that reproductive rights are just as important as not starting needless wars.

[Guava Jelly]

26. They have those neat kinds of coat hangers

that can hold half a closet..Can they also help alley way doctors kill more women who cant obtain a legal abortion?
The rich still can hop on a plane and leave the country the poor are screwed.Class warfare at its finest

[MuseRider]

27. Please

not funny. You certainly made your point. I had mine pre Roe V Wade, this really is disturbing.

[NNN0LHI]

28. I don't think this was posted to be funny? It did not make me laugh

It sure as heck did make me think though.

Don

[MuseRider]

29. Yes,

it was the first thing I saw this morning, pre coffee, pre almost anything. Woke me up. I never thought it would come to this again. To be reminded of the way things were with the information that they could be that way again is horrifying.

[dsc]

30. Shouldn't the first people you blame for this

be the significant percentage of pro choicers who actually voted for Bush?

Which comes closest to your position on abortion?
% of total category % of category

23 Legal in all cases 70 25 0 4
33 Legal in most cases 58 38 0 3
27 Illegal in most cases 29 69 0 1
13 Illegal in all cases 22 74 2 1


The numbers in all cases are Gore, Bush, Buchanan, Nader. Note that even among the most solidly pro choice voters Bush out polled Nader by 6 to 1. Gore would have won with close to 55% of the vote had he merely gotten all of the most staunchly pro choice voters who voted for Bush to vote for him. Once you get pro choicers to stop voting for Bush in such significant numbers, then and only then, should you be trying to shame other people, who may or may not be pro choice, into not voting 3rd party.

http://www.msnbc.com/m/d2k/g/polls.asp?office=P&state=N1

[snoochie]

49. Rational discourse is verboten.

The only acceptable dialogue is to blame third party voters ONLY!

/sarcasm

[dsc]

61. You see the huge number of answers it got

funny how that works.

[Guaranteed]

32. Kerry didn't even vote on the PBA ban. nt

[Guaranteed]

33. Link:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=1&vote=00051


On edit: Neither did Edwards, by the way.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

41. Voting against when the votes FOR are already there is nothing

short of symbolic.

Can those of you that are so sick of the symbolism inherent in being "tossed a bone" at least TRY to be consistent in your hatred of the Democratic party?

[YNGW]

50. There's a reason not to vote.

It's when you don't want to go on record as having been for or (in this case) against something.

There's the reason for "I'm not going to vote 'Nay' on something that's going to pass anyway." It's a convenient way to dance with both partners and commit to neither. That's as symbolic as it gets.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

52. Yeah right...the other five times he voted against it mean nothing

[YNGW]

55. You'd think he's be a little more conscience...

...especially considering he had only months earlier formed an exploratory committee to consider running for president. This was the one vote that got the bill passed, the very one out of all of them on which he needed to have his 'Nay' recorded. Ooops!!

Tell it to the political novices. You're dealing with the big leagues. I don't take BS. I don't buy into silly arguments from rudimental individuals.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

57. LOL

I don't take BS. I don't buy into silly arguments from rudimental individuals.

Nor do I that's why I am not falling for yours. I've been around the block a few times and know the voters will get the info no matter how hard you propagandize from the inside.

BTW, the pro-choice voting block is a bit more informed. That's why women's rights groups will easily support Kerry even mores than Edwards.

[YNGW]

58. LOL

This is what? An obscure political board read by a few hundered people. Hardly a place to propagandize.

>Nor do I
>I've been around the block a few times
>the pro-choice voting block is a bit more informed

Logical Fallacy

Unsubstantiated Allegations

For more about logic, see:

http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

59. I've already read the site and did no such thing

have a nice day tearing up democrats.

[molly]

35. I'm old enough to remember PRE-Roe/Wade

I had friends that went that route - I will never take our right to choose lightly and neither should anyone.

[Lefta Dissenter]

36. Jeez, people

Somehow, I don't think that this was posted to amuse... :eyes:

We are NOT going to have a perfect President! Even if Nader or Dean or Clark were to be elected, he would not be perfect (though, obviously, Clark would be closest to perfect)!

"Who, in America, would make a perfect President?" - that's NOT the question that is going to be on the ballot in November. Say what you want about voting your conscience, your heart, your morals - the time for that is NOW, in the primaries. The reality is that in November, the choice will be between two men: bush and (presumably) Kerry. A vote for anyone other than the Dem WILL be a vote for bush! Do we allow our country to be sucked farther into the toilet, or do we start the long, slow climb back out?

Progress is not made overnight. It takes babysteps, and regaining our White House is just the first step. Don't throw that away, just because the Dem will not be a perfect President!

[in_cog_ni_to]

37. Roe v. Wade being challenged again

is THE main reason I have decided I HAVE to vote for a Dem. A woman's right to choose is too DAMN IMPORTANT to let the RWers loose on society for 4 more years. It CANNOT happen. Then add Bush appointing Pryor, a RW judge, while congress is in recess and Ralph Nader running again and we need all the Dem votes we can get. The neo-cons will destroy our country. I'm in.

[LWolf]

38. I'm proudly voting for

whoever I damned well please.

Plain and simple.

And my mother, who barely survived an illegal procedure, would not appreciate, support, or validate your sentiment. In any way.

[in_cog_ni_to]

39. Endangered Specie is being *sarrcastic*. n/t

[iamjoy]

43. Exactly, Reproductive Rights are #1

Our reproductive rights, our civil liberties are the most important issues for me in this election. Overall, I see another Bush term as disastrous to those issues. Of course the Dems aren't perfect on these, but they would be better than Bush.

Anyway, if you are pro-choice, there is a march in Washington on April 25 - it is called "March for Women's Lives" and is being coordinated by Planned Parenthood, NOW, NARAL and Feminist Majority. The thing is, the organizers of the march don't want sponsors using the march for partisan activity. I am still trying to think of a way we can encourage all the attendees to vote pro-choice in November.

[Mairead]

45. DK has pledged to support the right of EVERY woman to

complete reproductive choice. That includes poor women and women in uniform. Sharpton has, too.

What are Kerry's and Edwards's pledges?

[West Coast Democrat]

47. Yep! I'm an average American living in the real world...........

I'm not wealthy.... I can't pack up and move to France or somewhere when things get worse.

I can't afford 4 more years of W. The country can't afford it.

[CityDem]

51. Abortion is not the ONLY issue in this campaign

While choice is surely important, it is not the only issue. Until we free the political process of the special interests (sorry JFK's recent conversion does not impress me), we will always be in a dogfight for our most basic rights. Just limping along and preserving our right to choice does not do it for me. Until we have economic freedom, good jobs, a fair tax code, medical services for all citizens and affordable education, I will not support the DLC - Establishment line.

African Americans have supported the establishment dems more than any other group. Their support has been unwavering. How much has the establishment given back to them? I am afraid we progressives will get the same treatment until we show the DLC we will no go along every time they trot out the choice boogy man.

[jus_the_facts]

53. This is as scary as it gets....this issue trumps all others.....

....the effects of this issue will make those same republican women beg for abortions for the boogy men they may bear as a result of their greed destroying the enviornment...their daughters and granddaughters will suffer the consequences....this issue is the only issue that truly matters at all....all others become irrelevant...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1143818

[Adelante]

54. I'm not reading the comments

I just want to say, this is the most effective post I have ever seen on DU. Horribly sad, but effective. :thumbsup:

[tedoll78]

56. Just wait..

there will be some who still don't get it. They want Iraq magically un-Invaded, etc etc. Who cares if women are held-down and forced into certain medical procedures? Who cares if children end-up in the electric chair? 95% liberal is not enough - it must be 100% or 0%!!!

[Endangered Specie]

60. FYI: I had NO intention of being funny...

I used those images because I wanted people to see what could happen. Imagery is powerful. My headline was an attempt to signifiy that many third party voters are doing it for reasons of "self-righteous" and the "earn my vote" doctrine, while at the same time pointing out just what that third vote could do and so many do not fully realize it, this was my attempt to point out what third party voters COULD be helping to support.

I deepfuly regret and offense or pain I caused anyone, Im not perfect and cant make everyone happy. I just know that another 4 years of W will cause more pain and offense than I could ever post, even If i was trying.