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It wasn't just Biden that was pro-bankruptcy bill - take a look at Johnny:

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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 03:47 PM
Original message
It wasn't just Biden that was pro-bankruptcy bill - take a look at Johnny:
Isn't Edwards running his whole campaign about helping poor people?


Thank you Chris Dodd!




Dodd Campaign: John Edwards May Not Take Money From Washington Lobbyists, But He Sure Acted Like It
8/19/2007

Contact:
Hari Sevugan
Cell - (312) 203-2207
Office - (202) 737-DODD (3633)

Colleen Flanagan
Cell - (202) 744-7290
Office - (202) 737-DODD (3633)

* Edwards supported a bankruptcy bill that was vetoed by President Clinton. In 2000 John Edwards voted for the Bankruptcy Overhaul bill. While this bill included a slight increase of the minimum wage, its major design was to revise bankruptcy laws to make it easier for courts to force debtors to repay their debts, while before the law had allowed debtors to discharge their debt. 12 Democrats and 2 Republicans rejected this bill, including Chris Dodd, Ted Kennedy, Paul Wellstone, and Tom Harkin. President Clinton eventually vetoed this bill because it was too hard on debtors.


* Edwards voted for the same bill in 2001, again choosing financial interests over working families. In 2001 Edwards voted for a similar Bankruptcy Overhaul bill that again required Americans facing bankruptcy to undergo debt repayments instead of debt relief. Specifically, the bill required debtors able to pay $10,000 or 25% of their debts over five years to file under Chapter 13, which requires a reorganization of debts under a repayment plan, instead of seeking to discharge their debts under Chapter 7. Edwards voted with nearly the entire Republican caucus in supporting this bill, as well as voting to end debate on the measure. Chris Dodd voted to reject this bill, joining Senators Durbin, Feingold, Harkin, Kennedy, Kerry, and Wellstone. In all, the bill was rejected by 13 Democrats and 2 Republicans.

* Edwards would not allow relief for people who were forced into bankruptcy from medical bills. Edwards also sided with the entire GOP caucus to vote against the Wellstone amendment to the 2001 bill. This amendment would have provided an exemption for debtors who were forced to file for bankruptcy due to medical expenses, under the rationale that health expenses are often unpreventable and can be an especially debilitating cost to low and middle income families. Chris Dodd was one of the 34 Democrats who voted for this amendment?a group that included Senators Clinton, Durbin, Feingold, Harkin, Kennedy, Kerry and Wellstone.

* Edwards rejected a means test amendment that would have protected debtors from sudden financial misfortune. On the same bill, Edwards again voted with the entire GOP caucus to reject an amendment that would have included a more consumer friendly means test than that included in the original bill. The amended means test would have used the average of a debtor's last two months of income to determine their ability to pay a certain threshold amount of debt, instead of the last six months of income. The amended means test was designed to protect debtors who face financial difficulties from sudden job loss or disability. Paul Wellstone, who authored the amendment, said the original test "will make it impossible for families to rebuild their lives." 22 Democrats supported this amendment, including Chris Dodd. Dodd was accompanied by Senators Clinton, Durbin, Feingold, and Kennedy.

* Edwards supported the final version of the Bankruptcy bill that "punishes the vulnerable." Months later, Edwards again voted for the similar version of the Bankruptcy bill that emerged from negotiations with the House of Representatives. He also voted to limit debate twice on the bill, stifling further amendments or arguments. This version was not substantively different from the earlier versions, as it still made it significantly harder for working Americans to discharge their debts through the bankruptcy system. Chris Dodd rejected this bill, along with Senators Durbin, Feingold, Harkin, Kennedy, Kerry and Wellstone. 14 Democrats and 2 Republicans voted against the final measure.


The bill "punishes the vulnerable and it rewards the big banks and credit card companies for their poor practices," said Sen. Paul Wellstone, D-Minn., a leading opponent of the legislation. "We are heading into hard economic times and we're going to make it hard for people to rebuild their lives."

http://www.iowapolitics.com/index.iml?Article=102959
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. Great, so I won't vote for either of them.
Biden was last on my list anyway.
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inthebrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Edwards has a shady history that I can't explain either
His vote for China trade which vastly reduced standards and hurts unions. Although I wa specifically talking about the 2005 bill in reference to Biden I have yet to research this one.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. Has he apologized for it yet?
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. If you're referring to Edwards, I'd guess 'yes'. If you're referring to Biden, I
don't think he apologizes for votes he felt were right at the time. He always votes his convictions, and if it turns out the vote didn't accomplish what supporters envisioned, he takes responsibility. Why would anyone apologize for doing what they felt was the best?




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KingFlorez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. Not surprising
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. and this is an example of why I'm not
able to commit to Edwards. I like what he's saying now, but he's changed so completely from his time in the Senate, that I have trouble believing in his conversion from steadfast centrist/conservative dem to steadfast progressive/liberal dem.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
6. My God he is such a fucking phony. Truly shameful
Edited on Sun Nov-18-07 04:38 PM by durrrty libby
"Edwards rejected a means test amendment that would have protected debtors from sudden financial misfortune."

"Edwards supported the final version of the Bankruptcy bill that "punishes the vulnerable."

"Edwards would not allow relief for people who were forced into bankruptcy from medical bills."

:spank: :wow: :spank:

Running as a champion of the poor makes him a big fat hypocrite
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Jillian Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
7. Clinton also voted yes for all of the above.
DEMOCRATS YES


Akaka, Hawaii; Baucus, Mont.; Bayh, Ind.; Biden, Del.; Bingaman, N.M.; Breaux, La.; Byrd, W.Va.; Cantwell, Wash.; Carnahan, Mo.; Carper, Del.; Cleland, Ga.; Clinton, N.Y.; Conrad, N.D.; Daschle, S.D.; Dorgan, N.D.; Edwards, N.C.; Feinstein, Calif.; Graham, Fla.; Hollings, S.C.; Inouye, Hawaii; Johnson, S.D.; Kohl, Wis.; Landrieu, La.; Leahy, Vt.; Levin, Mich.; Lieberman, Conn.; Lincoln, Ark.; Mikulski, Md.; Miller, Ga.; Murray, Wash.; Nelson, Neb.; Reid, Nev.; Schumer, N.Y.; Stabenow, Mich.; Torricelli, N.J.; Wyden, Ore.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D05E2D7173DF935A25750C0A9679C8B63&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/Subjects/L/Law%20and%20Legislation
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. they all deserve to be condemned for it. n/t
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. What a fucking phony, she's as bad as the rest
but it's really all about continued war and status quo with her.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
10. That Bankruptcy legislation .....
REALLY pissed me off .... How DARE the Democrats do such a thing to families ?

Of ALL the rhetoric passed around here, and all the I have glossed over as the faults and errors of the candidates become a regular drumbeat from all sides: THAT fucking bill pissed me off more than anything .....

I will still vote for Democrats, but I swear that is the FIRST damned thing out of my mouth if I ever get a chance to speak to one of them .... "WTF were you thinking ?"
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Uhm...
Edited on Sun Nov-18-07 09:32 PM by 1corona4u
I think you're upset over nothing. This is from another thread where I posted the statistics on BK's this year, and they are on the rise. This bill did not hinder legitimate BK's. Just the abusers. 85% are still eligible for chapter 7. And, by the way, families aren't the only ones filing for BK's. Here is the current breakdown;

The Chapter 7 filings for the quarter ended June 30, 2007 was the highest since the new bankruptcy laws went into effect in October of 2005.

News Flash! August 16, 2007 — The bankruptcy statistics were released on the Internet today by the Administrative Office of the Courts. Chapter 7 bankruptcies continue its steady rise since the new bankruptcy laws went into effect in October of 2005.

Chapter 7 quarterly filings have been as follows:

Quarter Ended: # of Chapter 7 filings
March 31, 2006 63,548
June 30, 2006 91,674
September 31, 2006 96,442
December 31, 2006 99,446
March 31, 2007 117,830
June 30, 2007 131,039

And who filed;

Average age: 38;
44% of filers are couples;
30% are women filing alone;
26% are men filing alone;
Slightly better educated than the general population;
Two out of three have lost a job;
Half have experienced a serious health problem;
Fewer than 9% have not suffered a job loss, medical event or divorce;
Highest bankruptcy rates: Tennessee, Utah, Georgia, Alabama.


And, here's a stupid part;

A family earning $24,000 had an average of $36,000 in credit card and similar debt.

Now, you tell me, why should I feel sorry for someone who made the decision to take out that much credit, knowing they had NO VIABLE way to pay it back. That's what I mean when I say people don't live within their means. If you don't make enough money to pay your bills, and buy things, how the hell can you EVER pay a credit card bill??






Here is the new criteria for filing;

Means test for Chapter 7
Although the intent of the law was to make it more difficult for individuals to file for bankruptcy under Chapter 7, under which most of their debts are forgiven (or discharged) and to force individuals to file under Chapter 13 under which part of all of the debts are repaid under a plan, it has, in practice, not substantially made a large effect. Approximately 85% of debtors are not subject to its "means test" and a large percentage of the rest are able to "pass" the means test.(meaning, it doesn't affect that many people)

Under the old law, filers had a presumption of eligibility to file under Chapter 7, with the final determination made by bankruptcy judges, who evaluated the specific nature of each bankruptcy. In lieu of this judicial discretion, the new law substitutes a means test to determine whether filers have enough income to pay some portion of their debts, and thus file under Chapter 13.

The means test applies to filers whose gross income (based on the six month period prior to filing), is above the median income in their state (ranging from $72,451 in Massachusetts to $42,290 in West Virginia, as of 2005). Individuals whose incomes are below the median automatically qualify for Chapter 7. Filers whose incomes are above the median must then calculate their Disposable Monthly Income (DMI) to determine whether they are able to make payments on their debts sufficient to qualify them for Chapter 13. The DMI is determined by subtracting priority debt payments, secured debt payments, Internal Revenue Service determined expense allowances, taxes and certain other expenses from a filer’s monthly income. If the DMI is less than $100 per month, they are permitted to file under Chapter 7. If the DMI is above $100, they must file under Chapter 13.

This formula effectively rewards filers with assets that are heavily mortgaged and debtors with larger amounts of unsecured debt. Since alimony and child support payments are "priority debts" it also has the effect of making it easier for people who owe back domestic support obligations (such as "deadbeat dads") to file under Chapter 7 than other debtors (but the child support is not dischargeable).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_Abuse_Preventio...

And here is the reason Joe voted for it;

Floor Statement: Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005

Mr. BIDEN. Mr. President, several years ago, when we were considering this legislation, I spoke here on the Senate floor about some important provisions that I think have been overlooked in our discussions. In my remarks today I will repeat what I said back then, in March of 2001.

We have heard a lot in recent days about how this bill lacks compassion--specifically, that it will hurt women and children who depend on alimony and child support.

Critics claim that by making sure that more money is paid back to other creditors, this bill will make it harder for women and children to get what is coming to them.

I am particularly proud of my record of protecting women and children during my career in the Senate. That record includes the Violence Against Women Act to protect women threatened by domestic violence.

I am here again today to show that, contrary to a lot of the rhetoric that has been tossed around, this bill actually improves the situation of women and children who depend on child support. It specifically targets the problems they face under the current bankruptcy system into a virtual extension of the current national family support collection system.

There may be other aspects of this legislation that we can debate: the balance between creditors and debtors, between different kinds of creditors, or between different kinds of debtors. But on the question of child support and alimony, there should be no dispute.

Because this bill strengthens the collection of alimony. Period.

http://biden.senate.gov/newsroom/details.cfm?id=234426



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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
11. kickin' for the nite crowd
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
12. BIDEN HEARINGS on JUDICARY....CLARENCE THOMAS...
that's it.........
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Do you have tourette's?
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
14. Thanks pirhana
this info tends to get buried. Nice work.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
17. Vote for Dodd
He didn't vote for the Bankruptcy Bill.


Or vote for DK, who didn't either


http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll105.xml
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I would be proud to vote for Dodd.
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sheppdogg Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
19. Increased minimum payments
I just wanted to throw this out -- increased minimum payments is a good thing, a small part of the bankruptcy bill if I'm not mistaken.

Helps people keep control of their finances and not borrow more than they can afford.

*two cents*
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