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If only Joe Biden were president-Senator would not betray rights in Constitution

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 01:35 PM
Original message
If only Joe Biden were president-Senator would not betray rights in Constitution
If only Joe Biden were president
Senator would not betray rights in Constitution

By Nat Hentoff
Newspaper Enterprise Association

In the Des Moines (Iowa) Register last summer, the headline of a column by Richard Doak, a former Register editor, zeroed in on the fundamental issue of the presidential race: "Who will defend Constitution?" a presidential litmus test. He went on to say, "Most of the candidates, especially the leading Republicans, have failed to express any qualms about the claims of absolute executive power advanced by President Bush and Vice President Cheney."

My candidate for the presidency is low in the polls and has received only marginal press coverage. He should stand out, to begin with, because since 1991 - while serving in the Senate - Joseph Biden has been an adjunct professor of constitutional law at the Wilmington, Del., campus of Widener Law School.

Our Constitution is not broken. It is, however, being continually fractured by the Bush administration. Especially important, therefore, is for the next president to deeply understand how we can - and must - be safe from terrorism while remaining a free people under the rule of law, not according to whoever occupies the White House.

Biden is that candidate.

During a speech at the Drake University School of Law in Des Moines, Iowa, last spring, Biden spoke vigorously of how the president's authorization of torture (while mechanically denying it), along with the CIA "renditions" and its secret prisons (emptied temporarily by Bush), have darkened the way we're seen around the world.

Moreover, added Biden: "According to unclassified reporting on last year's National Intelligence Estimate, the abuses that occurred at these secret prisons and at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay have stoked the jihad movement" - giving aid and comfort to terrorist recruiters.

Biden also told the law students at Drake University that the administration, in concert with the Republican-controlled Congress in the Military Commissions Act of 2006, had stripped detainees at Guantanamo of habeas corpus, "a judicial safeguard that predates our constitutional democracy."

more...

http://www.saukvalley.com/articles/2007/11/16/opinion/columnists/349878633121556.txt
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you Joe!
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Nat and Joe
Nat has been wandering in the political wilderness, IMO, in recent years. Now he's on track, apparently.

Thanks Nat.

And I'm extremely comfortable with Joe. I wish he were president right now. Then I could relax, knowing that someone with brains and courage was in charge of the cleanup.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well, except for women's rights.
But who needs those.
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inthebrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. As long as the credit card companies don't pay him
Or I suppose a women's right to control her own body isn't included in that either.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. the credit card companies haven't contributed to his campaign. And he's stood up for women's rights
for 35 years.

But then you know that.
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inthebrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Oh yes they have
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. LOL....
147K? You're joking, right? Man, you're really reaching...
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. What exactly...
is your problem? Why do you insist on trashing every thread started about Biden? I can't wait to find out who you are voting for...I bet I know more about your candidate than you do....you have posted nothing but lies, and your irrational opinion, and I have proved you wrong each time, and yet, you still spew your uninformed opinions. You are dead wrong about both of the things you posted above....

I'm off to find out who you are voting for now.....and I'll probably have some fact based comments to make about that person. And really, because I like to be fair, I will offer the same to anyone slamming Biden on this thread, or any other.
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inthebrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Maybe you should research your candidate a little better
Don't blame me.

I've posted nothing but facts.

Facts that seem to get in the way of campaign blather. MBNA is one of Bidens biggest campaign donors over the years, He rewarded them with a vote on the Bankruptsy bill and voted down ammendments that would have protected out most vulnerable.

I was on ethis board the day that bill passes and read a lot of rage over that bill posted by a lot of people here. A lot of it dircted at Biden for selling everyone up the river. It's not the first time he's done that.

There is nothing deserving in the guy for my primary vote. NOTHING!!!!

THe fact that he's even considered a top four candidate should be seen as slap in the face.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I guess..
Edited on Sun Nov-18-07 03:22 PM by 1corona4u
for people that want to have the govt. bail them out on everything, then your opinion works for that type of personality. And the rest of us get to pay for it. However, I posted the text, from his speech on the Senate floor, which points out the reasons he voted for it, which you completely ignore. Joe is not a liar. He stated UP FRONT why he voted for it, and he deserves to be taken on his word, since he is not known to be a liar.

I asked you a simple question, which was, why do you come to every Biden thread and slam him? You failed to answer, so I must point out your obvious hypocrisy, as found on your journal pages;
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by inthebrain in General Discussion
Thu Jun 21st 2007, 12:42 AM
I took a six month haitus from the place because I got tired of watching everyone rat eachother out. I always felt that as Democrats we should all be on the same team and work a little harder to get along with one another.

I don't hate anybody here. As a matter of fact, I have longstanding rivals and others I keep in contact with via PM. For the most part it's all been respectable even with the folks I've had some hard fought debates with in the past. The point I've always felt was to keep it fun.


so we did.

Then after awhile it seemed that those not involved in the debate or discussion got the guster to play hall monitor. The first few times I let it fly and then it just got to annoying to bear. So I decided to to take a break. I didn't post here for six months. My hope was that with time some folks would get tired of ratting eachother out and the "neener neener" antics that followed.

Really, if I wanted to deal with that I'd spend my free time with the middle managers at my job. They always get their jollys diming each other out and those around them.

I don't blame the mods for it. I think they have a tough job and it can't be a lot of fun playing babysitter on this board all day. You couldn't pay me enough to deal with the bullshit those guys have to put with on a daily basis around here.

The point is that hanging around here too long makes me start to hate Democrats. Not for the issues but for the way they treat some treat eachother around these parts with the ratting. I don't want to hate anyone or this party.

So with that said.

I'm off.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Clearly, you are guilty of the same thing you claimed to be against. I really don't think you have much to add to anything really, just more hate messages filled with your irrational thoughts.

I think you should take another break from the boards. Sounds like you're due again.
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inthebrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 03:27 PM
Original message
I haven't ratted anyone out.
I use this forum to discuss issues.

Not go back and forth in a personal rat contest to the mods.

So no, I am not guily of a double standard (the fact that you did all the research on me rather than your own candidate speaks volumes about you. I am not running for office).

As far as the government bailing people out. You have no issue when it's Joe Biden coming in to bail out the crecit card companies. Now onder, They are some of his biggest campaign contributors.

This isn't seventeen magazine where you get an easy pass adoring your favorite teen idol. Leave the beauty contests to Donald Trump.

We're not here picking Mrs America.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
17. No you don't...
Edited on Sun Nov-18-07 03:58 PM by 1corona4u
You come to this board to slam the candidates. I'm still looking, but I have yet to find ONE post of yours where you actually support ONE candidate...if you do, why not just tell me who it is, since it's escaped me thus far. Otherwise, I'll find it, eventually....

You don't know jack about me. I know my candidate well. No need for me to spend anymore time on that. I have no issue with the BK bill, because frankly, I'm sick of people charging up thousands in debt, while they go on with their materialistic lifestyle, then when they falter, they expect a bail out. TOUGH crap. You keep acting like the 147K they have given him was a buy out. That's just ridiculous. If you think Joe Biden could be bought and sold at all, you need to think again. Let alone for 147K.....which is NOTHING for a contribution.

The last 2 lame, juvenile comments, I won't even dignify with a response.

Edited; I found it. You support a candidate that is going absolutely nowhere. Perhaps that's why you are so bitter in regards to Biden. Sorry but Dennis is dead in the water. I don't dislike Dennis, and I give him a lot of credit for speaking up, but it also hurts him.
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. I'm sure the Senator will be saddened to not have your support...n/t
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demommom Donating Member (532 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. We all know our candidate very well, thank you.
We also understand that you do not like him and feel you could never
vote for him. ok! What we do not understand is why you think you should keep coming on positive threads about him and try to convince everyone to join you. Don't you have a candidate to SUPPORT? Or do you just like to bash Joe Biden.. Guess what... it won't work because most of the Biden supporters are with him for the duration, so don't waste your energy and our time. We have already discussed these things among ourselves and we support him for all the good he has done and can do, not a couple of controversial votes and a lot of exaggerations.

One more thing, we don't bash other candidates.
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gore08 Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. He's a Senator from Delaware
He has to vote for the credit companies as Senator from Delaware. It's a sad fact but it's a reality.

Would you prefer him to vote against the interests of the major industry in his own state? That would ensure that we would have a Republican Senator from Delaware who would vote in lockstep with the Bush Administration with Frist and his majority on every single issue. The Dems would have no oversight because we wouldn't be in the majority.

Look, I was pissed at Biden for that bankruptcy vote but he had to as the Senator from Delaware. He's all for public financing of elections. And then he wouldn't have to vote with the credit card companies.

He's been a worker and a fighter for workers, for minorities, for women, for the environment for as long as he's been in the Senate.

I'm a lurker. I read several times a day and never post. But your blind idealism and your shilling for Hillary Clinton or for the Republicans (the Dodd thing is just a front) is driving me crazy. Biden would make a great President. Stop using the Rovian tactic of holding every single Senate vote against great candidates. We have no idea what deals are made to get things done in the Senate. Look at the big picture - especially with Biden. He's a great guy and a smart guy and a WORKER.

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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Thank you for breaking your silence - I appreciate your post and how well you
Edited on Mon Nov-19-07 06:30 PM by gateley
stated your opinion.

:hi:

And my condolences that it seems that Gore won't be running - I know it's very disappointing to his supporters. :hug:
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. The Drug War notwithstanding...n/t
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. The "Rave Act" Did a Number on Freedom of Assembly
Biden slipped the Rave Act through in the conference committee in the dead of night,
to avoid such formalities as letting the House or Senate vote on it, or allowing the
public to have any input.

In so doing he left a whole generation of young people utterly disillusioned and disgusted with politics.

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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. LOL...
Edited on Sun Nov-18-07 03:24 PM by 1corona4u
Yeah, you'd rather defend illegal drug use.....here's the reason he supported it.

INTRODUCTORY STATEMENTS for S. 2633



By Mr. BIDEN (for himself, and Mr. GRASSLEY):

S. 2633.A bill to prohibit an individual from knowingly opening, maintaining, managing, controlling, renting, leasing, making available for use, or profiting from any place for the purpose of manufacturing, distributing, or using any controlling substance, and for other purposes; to the Committee on the Judiciary.

Mr. BIDEN. Madam President, over the past several years, I have become increasingly concerned with the trafficking and use of the newest fad drug, Ecstasy. All across the country, thousands of teenagers are treated for overdoses and Ecstasy-related health problems in emergency rooms each year. And recent statistics from the Partnership for a Drug Free America show that teen use of Ecstasy has increased 71 percent since 1999. Unless we mount a major education campaign across schools and campuses nationwide, we may not be able to counter the widespread misconception that Ecstacy is harmless, fashionable and hip.

Much of the abuse of Ecstasy and other club drugs happens at all-night dance parties known as "raves." A few months ago in the Caucus on International Narcotics Control I held a hearing to take an in-depth look at the phenomenon of these all-night dance parties and recent efforts at the Federal, State and local levels to crack down on rave promoters who allow rampant drug use at their events and do everything they can to profit from it.

It is common for rave organizers to go to great lengths to portray their events as safe so that parents will allow their kids to attend. They advertise them as alcohol-free parties and some even hire off-duty police officers to patrol outside the venue. But the truth is that many of these raves are drug dens where use of Ecstasy and other "club drugs," such as the date rape drugs Rohypnol, GHB and Ketamine, is widespread.

But even as these promoters work to make parents think that their events are safe, they send a different message to kids. Their promotional flyers make clear that drugs are an integral part of the party by prominently featuring terms associated with drug use, such as the letters "E" or "X," street terms for Ecstasy, or the term "rollin," which refers to an Ecstasy high. They are, in effect, promoting Ecstasy along with the rave.

By doing so, the promoters get rich as they exploit and endanger kids. Many supplement their profits from the $10 to $50 cover charge to enter the club by selling popular Ecstasy paraphernalia such as baby pacifiers, glow sticks, or mentholated inhalers. And party organizers know that Ecstasy raises the core body temperature and makes the user extremely thirsty, so they sell bottles of water for $5 or $10 apiece. Some even shut off the water faucets so club goers will be forced to buy water or pay admission to enter an air-conditioned "cool down room."

Despite the conventional wisdom that Ecstasy and other club drugs are "no big deal," a view that even the New York Times Magazine espoused in a cover story, these drugs can have serious consequences, and can even be fatal.

After the death of a 17-year-old girl at a rave party in New Orleans in 1998, the Drug Enforcement Administration conducted an assessment of rave activity in that city which showed the close relationship between these parties and club drug overdoses. In a two year period, 52 raves were held at the New Orleans State Palace Theater, during which time approximately 400 teenagers overdosed and were treated at local emergency rooms. Following "Operation Rave Review" which resulted in the arrest of several rave promoters and closing the city's largest rave, overdoses and emergency room visits dropped by 90 percent and Ecstasy overdoses have been eliminated.

State and locals governments have begun to take important steps to crack down on rave promoters who allow their events to be used as havens for illicit drug activity. In Chicago, where Mayor Daley has shown great leadership on this issue, it is a criminal offense to knowingly maintain a place, such as a rave, where controlled substances are used or distributed. Not only the promoter, but also the building owner and building manager can be charged under Mayor Daley's law. The State of Florida has a similar statute making such activity a felony.

And in Modesto, California, police officers are offering "rave training classes" to parents to educate them about the danger of raves and the club drugs associated with them.

And at the Federal level, there have been four cases in which Federal prosecutors have used the so called "crack house statute" or other Federal charges to go after rave promoters. These cases, in Little Rock, AR, Boise, ID, Panama City, FL, and New Orleans, LA, have had mixed results, culminating in two wins, a loss and a draw, suggesting that there may be a need to tailor this Federal statute more precisely to the problem at hand. Today I am proposing legislation, Reducing Americans' Vulnerability to Ecstasy Act, or the "RAVE" Act, which will do just that. I am pleased to have Senator Grassley as the lead cosponsor.

The bill tailors the crack house statute to address rave promoters' actions more specifically so that Federal prosecutors will be able to use it to prosecute individuals who allow rampant drug use at their events and seek to profit from putting kids at risk. The legislation also addresses the low penalties for trafficking gamma hydroxybutyric acid, GHB, by directing the United States Sentencing Commission to examine the current penalties and consider increasing them to reflect the seriousness of offenses involving GHB.

But the answer to the problem of drug use at raves is not simply to prosecute irresponsible rave promoters and those who distribute drugs. There is also a responsibility to raise awareness among parents, teachers, students, coaches, religious leaders, etc. about the dangers of the drugs used and sold at raves. The RAVE Act directs funds to the DEA for that purpose. Further, the bill authorizes nearly $6 million for the DEA to hire a Demand Reduction Coordinator in each state who can work with communities following the arrest of a significant local trafficker to reduce the demand for drugs through prevention and treatment programs.

It is the unfortunate truth that most raves are havens for illicit drugs. Enacting the RAVE Act will help to prosecute the promoters who seek to profit from exploiting and endangering young lives and will take steps to educate youth, parents and other interested adults about the dangers of Ecstasy and other club drugs associated with raves.

I hope that my colleagues will join me and support this legislation.


--------------------

Whatfreakingever....
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. "the right of the people peaceably to assemble"
does not end because someone, somewhere, snuck in some illicit drugs.

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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Why Do It In the Conference Committee?
Congress had received a great deal of public input about the Rave Act when it had come up before — nearly all of it in opposition.

That is why the bill had gone nowhere — the people didn't want it!

Biden has swallowed the drug warriors' propaganda whole, and regurgitated it intact into the Congressional record as you cited above.

Because of this, he considered the will of the people to be but a minor annoyance. Haven't we had enough of this kind of governance?

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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
12. Thanks for posting this.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
15. Thanks for an interesting piece, babylonsister -- again!! nt
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inthebrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
23. He voted for the Patriot Act!!!
This guy doesn't get what the consitution is about or the founders that wrote it.

He's also a little snake in the grass candidate that stinks of corporate cash through and through.
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PatSeg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Apparently you're not voting for Joe Biden
which is fine. Thanks for your input, though the "little snake in the grass" reference is a little over-the-top.

I am voting for Joe Biden. If your intentions were to dissuade me and other Biden supporters, then you are wasting valuable time and energy that could be used to "promote" someone you do believe in.
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inthebrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I don't use internet sites to drum up votes for people
That's freakin lame.

REEEEEEEAAAAAALLLLL LAAAAAAAME.

I have a life and know that what goes on on these boards does not effect the real world in any way whatsoever.

With that said, my postings here are not to dissuade anyone from voting one way or another. I am here to have fun discussing the candidates and to communicate how I feel about these things. I will use factual information to support those feelings as well.

Anyone using the forum to campaign for a candidate is a real freakin loser and a half. That stuff needs to take place in the real world.

Not here.

But my feelings on Biden based on his votes (and his pro corporate language used in the internet predator bill) is that this guy is a "snake in the grass". I've long ago learned not to trust this guy on anything. The fact that he is using a child internet predator bill to give corporations more power over people I find despicable.

Everytime this guys pulls one of these things his response is always, "Duh, I didn't know".

His response regarding his vote for the Patriot ACt was absolutely ridiculous. That bill may not expressly allow racial profiling. IT SURE AS FUCK OPENED THE DOOR FOR IT. For him to be so short sighted and obtuse about it is feaking insulting. He obviously never would have voted for the bill if it targeted upper crust white folk or slightly opened the door for it.

Even casting a vote for that bill and claiming you are a "defender of the constitution" is absurd.

You all should (and I suspect do) know better than that as well. Anyone concerned about these issues never would have given this guy one iota of idea that he should run in this race.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
24. Is anyone familiar with this piece of legislation?
(from the article)

In July, he introduced in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, the National Security with Justice Act.

which includes:

"Prohibit (CIA) 'Extraordinary Renditions;' Close Black Sites & Extra-Judicial Prisons; Prohibit the Torture or Mistreatment of Detainees in U.S. Custody; Extend Habeas Corpus to Detainees; and Modify the Definition of 'Unlawful Enemy Combatant.'"

Was it passed?

It was 'before my time'.

Thanks for any info.


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PatSeg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. All I found was this
Edited on Mon Nov-19-07 07:19 PM by tsegat01
Status of the Legislation

Latest Major Action: 7/25/2007: Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary.

It doesn't appear that anything else has been done thus far.

Forgot the link:

http://www.washingtonwatch.com/bills/show/110_SN_1876.html
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