Should Howard Dean have been our nominee in 2004?

[Guaranteed]

I imagine this poll won't look too different from the support polls we took during the campaign, but at least my personal views about each of the candidates have changed somewhat since then.

So, what do you think now, looking back? Should we have nominated Dean, Kerry, or someone else?

What did we learn from that election?

[CK_John]

1. Looking back I can't believe Kerry ran such a poor campaign. n/t

[Mz Pip]

2. Dean wasn't my first choice

but he would have been a whole lot better than Kerry.

[Guaranteed]

3. I agree.

And it's weird to think about how different things would have been had we nominated Dean.

[Guaranteed]

4. Further, I have to give Dean a massive amount of respect in this post here.

Because the man took that "rejection" with such grace. He stayed with the party- despite not just the rejection itself, but with so much of the party's inability to see what he was trying to do- he sucked it up, supported Kerry wholeheartedly (and really tried to BEAT Bush, still), and then even came back to reinvigorate the party as the DNC Chair.

He has done so much for us. Lately he's been out of the news and hasn't gotten much attention. But, truly, he was the Godfather of all of this. He showed us the way.

[Captain Angry]

5. He hasn't been out of the news.

The news hasn't been interested in him.

Rest assured that if a quote of his can be taken out of context, he'll be all over the news, and new calls for him to resign will be heard from many corners.

It is almost sickening how embarrassed I am at the person who ended up as President in 2004. I watched Dean on C-SPAN when he addressed the Canadian lawmakers. He spoke French, and joked intelligently in it.

The person that is called President currently speaks some Spanish, but his control of the language is a little shaky.

Dean would have had a hard win in 2004. He would have won by a landslide in 2008. There is nobody on the Republican side that could have touched him.

[killbotfactory]

6. I certainly thought so at the time

But the powers that be will never let someone be president if they can't corrupt them.

[denem]

7. Dean was the Repubilcan's "dream" candidate - remember?

Karl Rove couldn't wait to get a shot a Dean - remember? Dean was way too unelectable- remember? And people fell for it, in the same way they are falling for Pub ranting on HRC.

Why the fuck should anyone give a toss about what hard core Republican's think? You push a hot button and whoosh they are all out there. The most dogged constituency of them all.

For what it's worth I think Trippi led a major clusterfuck campaign and he is showing similar skills with JRE.

[Guaranteed]

8. You're relating the criticisms of Dean to the criticisms of Hillary Clinton?

That is quite the stretch. They are entirely different candidates.

Clinton is the candidate trying to steal the nomination from the "people" for the benefit of others (herself, corporations, whoever it may be) on the basis of her name- solely. Whereas Dean was a guy who briefly had frontrunner status because he actually had the right POSITIONS on the issues. Positions don't seem to matter anymore. Not even certain that Sen. Clinton has "positions" at all.

Odd how the focus of the campaign has changed in the last years. In 2004 substance mattered- a LOT!- even with Kerry, his character was determined by his war record.

What in the hell is Clinton being evaluated on? Nothing at all. Nothing, whatsoever. Just her name.

Very, very sad.

[denem]

10. What I am saying is my opinion on HRC

is not influenced by hard core Republican. If you believed them she would be liberalism incarnate.

[ellisonz]

12. Well except for the warmongering...

[denem]

13. Warmongering is invisible to hard coare Republicans

It's about Supporting the Troops, Rallying Round the Flag and Hail to the Chief. Look - all I am saying is that I won't take a hard core Republican's view on anything. And I know one real well: she's my wife - yeah we gotta be soul mates if we can still get on - and I keep her happy with my criticisms of HRC and the Congressional Dems, even if I'm coming from the other direction. And our daughter is serving her 15 months in Iraq right now so I guess you know my opinion on winding it all up as soon as possible .

[ellisonz]

15. But it's not to independents and new voters...or Democrats.

1. Honestly, I never understood how John Kerry of all people could ever have made such a mistake...but he's refutation of his vote comes off as more than lip service.
2. Take refuge in the Carville's.
3. Best of luck to you and your daughter.

[denem]

14. (self delete)

[inthebrain]

9. Rove was taking shots at the guy before the primaries

people voting bought it hook line and sinker.

Recall that ad with the old people telling Dean to go screw with his legion of latte drinking, volvo driving hippies?

This election is the same thing regarding Kucinich having no shot.

[denem]

11. No I don't remember the Ad.

but it sounds like pure Rove to me. Take a candidates strongest suit, his young inspired supporters and turn it into a negative: Hate old people, are like hippies and not on your side to begin with.