anti-outsourcing is the key to 2004

[ButterflyBlood]

it's simple, we'll frame the debate using typical Rovian simplicity.

Bush wants to export American jobs. period.
The Democrats are trying to stop this.

Look up anti-outsourcing bill S 2090. Both Kerry and Edwards have signed on as cosponsors. They need to hit Bush with this issue hard. I heard the Democrats in Illinois are. This needs to be done in all Senate and House races. Make it clear, keep jobs here by VOTING REPUBLICANS OUT.

[LoZoccolo]

1. In a nutshell, what could they do?

I'd like my job to be more secure, but what specifically, in human terms (not legislative speak), could they do about it?

[ButterflyBlood]

2. bill text

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:S.2090:

[union_maid]

3. Plenty

They need to change the trade agreements that we have. They need to penalize companies that do it and reward those that don't. If that tax cut for the rich had still gone to the rich in the form of breaks for corporations that employ people in the United States in good jobs at decent salaries then there might really have been the rise in revenue that tax cuts supposedly generate. The fact is that when NAFTA was enacted no one was envisioning a future when high paid IT based jobs could be zapped overseas or that there'd be a huge pool of people ready and able to do them so cheaply. This is an entirely new situation which not only threatens the jobs that exist, it also threatens the possiblity of future job markets in the US. The question of what displaced workers should retrain for is unaswerable for the first time in the post-WWII era. New problems call for new solutions.

[ArtieBoy]

4. Yes !

I'm THRILLED to see a post about this. I was laid off in 2000 and have been struggling to tread water ever since. And I see guys who were managers with 20 year tenures at AT&T who are fucked, people with 20 years in IT at General Electric getting replaced overnight by Indians on work visas (non-citizens) who do the job for 1/2 the price before wheeling the money home. A guy with a degree in Finance who can't get a job at a bank because he's told a Bachelor's makes him overqualified to work there!

All the Republicans down here in Georgia practically want to torch me for talking about it, but I gotta call it like I see it. Thanks for the thread.

[Sugarbleus]

6. Great ideas UM. I say stop it PDQ but

me thinks that the big dogs with all the clout will fight tooth and nail to keep things going the way they are. I will certainly praise the prez and/or representatives that take on this fight.

I for one am "retrained out"!

Keep our jobs home!!

[shivaji]

8. Your argument sounds good on paper, but in reality what happens is

that the products made here at higher labor costs becomes
too expensive, and sales fall off, which causes the outfit
to lose money and eventually close down. Can you imagine
if all cars were made here in the USA, and no imports were
allowed, what the cars would cost and how poor the quality
would be? I owned cars made in the 60's and they broke down
regularly. Once the imports started giving GM, Ford &
Chrysler the run for their money, American cars started
to improve. I am still driving my Ford Probe 1990 and it
still looks good and runs great. My new 64 Corvair, 67
Chevy Impala, 71 Chevy Nova were much inferior compared
to my 77 Chevy Malibu which lasted me thru 150,000 miles
and 13 years, with no repairs whatsoever.

[shivaji]

5. We have been OUTSOURCING since WW II in a big way

The day someone went out and bought the 1st Volkswagen,
some jobs were outsourced to Germany. Every Toyota, every
Sony product, every clothing made in China, ad nauseum
causes jobs exported to other countries.

There is no way to stop outsourcing so long as products
can be bought cheaper from abroad. And that goes for hard
products and service products such as software.

The ONLY way to stop all outsourcing is to STOP TRADING
with other countries. But EVERY time that has been tried,
the economy tanked big time.

Unfortunately we import more than we export, which is why
the dollar is falling. As the dollar gets cheaper, local
products become more competitive with imported products
which in turn helps create jobs here.

[union_maid]

7. This is still new

Lots of industries have been hurt over the years, sometimes because of changes in technology, sometimes because of other factors. When an industry dies or even moves it's devastating for those who depended on it. Over time, though, people would train to work in whatever new industry replaced the old and they moved around the country to follow the jobs. Farm workers went to manufacturing. Manufacturing workers went to IT. Horrible as it was to many, America's working and middle classes endured and even thrived as a whole. Trouble is, IT is the end of the line. There's no big industry, no slew of new positions to be trained for and filled on the horizon. New technology can be moved offshore as fast at the what's gone now, so the motivation to spend thousands on trade schools just isn't going to be there.

[shivaji]

13. Unfortunately IT knowhow is common place in countries like

India and China and is no longer "high" tech. If company
A decides to oursource its work, and company B decides to
hire local IT people, it won't be long before company B
will be out of business.

Protectionism has never propspered any country that I
know of. Having said all this, we must find a way to
train our laid of workers into skills which are in demand
today. It could be in the form of tution reimbursement,
extended unemployment benefits or what ever, or incentives
to companies to hire and train unemployed workers.

[Sugarbleus]

9. Yes, we did get SOME of our products from other countries but

WHOLE BUSINESSES DIDN'T JUST CLOSE UP SHOP AND MOVE ABROAD!!

When I worked in computer peripheral manufacturing jobs, we sometimes bought smaller things like circuit boards from elsewhere--but we put the damn stuff together right here! Hundreds of people were employed full time doing this work...then BAM! we get the pink slips and they send the whole operation overseas where "people were willing to work for a dollar a day and a bowl of rice". That was the attitude of the workers when our company did that. It was in all the papers. That was back in 1984. Today, we see more and more white collar workers getting the shaft and NOW it's a problem...hmmmm

[Old and In the Way]

12. Capitalism goes where capital grows.

And it's growing like crazy in China. Sad fact of life, but we may well be in for a reduced standard of living unless we reinvent our economy, like the telcom/internet revolution in the 90s.

This time it has to be a vision to reinvent our energy policy that focuses on alternative/renewable energy. This would also require a new infrastructure to reflect and accommodate this fundemental change and supporting the development of new technologies to make it happen.

Fighting to keep widget manufacturing here focuses us on the wrong priorities for the future.

[shivaji]

14. You got that right, bro.

[w4rma]

22. Why the heck would an industry (that doesn't even really exist yet)

stay here in America when they can go overseas, avoid environmental regulations, pay their workers a few cents per hour and sell that stuff right back to America's dwindling middle-class?

[ochazuke]

15. The pace of change is crucial

Because of our massive debt load, our economy can't grow at the rate we've grown used to over the past twenty years.

On top of that, the pace of exporting jobs is high and seems set to get worse.

Just do this thought experiment: the USA exports all jobs, and illegals do the stuff that can't be exported. Where does that leave us? No matter how cheap products are, most people will be cutting back on their spending 'cause they're broke.

So, clearly, the rate at which change occurs can make the difference between change that is on the whole good, and change that wrecks the economy.

[revcarol]

10. Kucinich is the best.

Has ALWAYS voted for labor.
Voted against NAFTA>>>>ALL OF THOSE TRADE AGREEMENTS THAT ARE KILLING OUR JOBS>
Would dump NAFTA and the WTO immediately , to be replaced by bi-lateral negotiated trade agreements that would have to benfit both countries to be adopted.

[ButterflyBlood]

11. also imagine putting up this issue against gay marriage?

"would you be willing to sacrifice your job to stop gays from being able to have the same right to marry as heterosexuals?"

easy question, easy answer.

[MI Cherie]

16. Personal info outsourced ...

... heard on the news tonight: Overseas wage slaves threatening to put out confidential info all over the web if they don't get paid more!

Think about it: medical records, SS#'s, financial info.

Bet identity theft will be on the rise!

[LoZoccolo]

17. I heard a story about this sort of thing a while back.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/10/22/MNGCO2FN8G1.DTL

[MI Cherie]

19. Guess it takes a while ...

... to filter out into the corporate media!

[FloridaPat]

18. Social Ssecurity taxes doubled in the last 10 years. Then add

medicade and companies are paying 18%. How about tax credits to the corporations. Beats loosing all the taxes by sending jobs overseas.

Throw out all the alians that have jobs in this country. The computer field is really hurting for jobs, and a lot of them are filled with alians. Send them home.

We can do it ourselves to. Blacklist companies that export jobs. Some will be hard. But if enough pocket books get hurt, they will take notice.

Today on MSNBC that was all they talked about was outsourcing. This is becoming a big issue.

[OneBlueSky]

20. here's an intriguing idea . . .

from an article in the Daily Brew that I posted in the Economics forum awhile back . . .

"The idea is simple. Instead of threatening our trading "partners" with tariffs and sanctions, threaten the multinational corporations who are setting up shop in countries that allow the wholesale theft of American intellectual property. If IBM wants to move a million programming jobs to India, that's fine. But if India doesn't respect the intellectual property rights of our imports, then why should the US respect the intellectual property rights of companies who use Indian labor to produce goods for export? You want to program your software in India? Fine. The price for doing so is that your copyrights, patents, and trademarks become unenforceable in the US. Anything IBM makes in India can be copied for free, and if IBM doesn't like it, they can damn well program the code somewhere else. If China wants to turn a blind eye to manufactures who produce counterfeit goods, so be it. But if Levi Strauss wants to set up a blue jeans factory there, then the Levi trademark falls into the public domain. Were this to become US policy, the outsourcing of US jobs to nations that steal US intellectual property would dry up faster than you can say "Most Favored Nation Status."

you can see the rest of the article here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=114&topic_id=5844

[eridani]

21. It gets the cultural conservatives with us

Just ask them what would you rather have? An anti-gay constitutional amendment, or a job? Of course, Carl probably hasn't heard of Kucinich yet.

http://sierratimes.com/03/12/29/ar_carlworden.htm

I am a Christian conservative who voted for Bush in 2000, and I write for a largely conservative and excellent Internet news and opinion publication called The Sierra Times. Remarkably, the positive responses I received from that article ran 8 to 2, 2 being those who said I was dead, absolutely DEAD wrong. The fact that largely conservative readers responded as positively as they did, means I am not wrong, and I am sticking to my prediction that Howard Dean will be sworn in as the 44th President of the United States.

The issue that I believe will put Dean right over the top will be his condemnation of NAFTA/GATT, free trade, and his pledge to end our participation in the World Trade Organization. If Dean wants to win by a comfortable margin, all he has to do is THAT. The massive number of red states that voted for Bush last election will turn to blue, and Dean will waltz into the White House like a halfback who strolls untouched into the end zone. End of game.

Of course, I have no idea what Dean’s position is on free trade, NAFTA/GATT or the WTO. As far as I know, he hasn’t said. Maybe he’s saving that for the finishing shot. I’m speculating of course, but Mr. Dean, if you are reading this, I just gave you the keys to the White House.