Kucinich and Edwards spar

[slipslidingaway]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/11/15/kucinich-and-edwards-spar/

(CNN) — "Rep. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio took a direct shot at fellow White House hopeful former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina at Thursday's CNN Democratic presidential debate.

"In the last debate, Hillary Clinton was criticized by John Edwards for some trade-related issue," said Kucinich. "But the fact of the matter is, John, you voted for China trade understanding that workers were going to be hurt. Now, you're a trial lawyer, you knew better."

When given the chance to respond, Edwards said, "I'm not sure what being a trial lawyer has to do with it."

Kucinich quickly shot back "product liability."

"Cute," Edwards responded before emphasizing the need to stop big corporations from lobbying the federal government."


‘Made in China’ hazards began with ‘Made in Washington, D.C.’
Democratic Presidential candidate Kucinich charges

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3716361

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

1. Line of the night

Thanks for posting this... I heard Kucinich say two words, but I couldn't make them out.

"Product Liability"

Damn, Kooch was fired up tonight.

[slipslidingaway]

17. The CNN site is actually covering Dennis without totally

marginalizing him, at least for today :)

[Adelante]

2. That was unbelievable

I wanted to kick the screen out I was so pissed off.

[MalloyLiberal]

6. Yeah, you're so much for Give Peace a Chance, with a screenname like that

[Name removed]

7. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slipslidingaway]

18. I could not believe he was asked the question! :) n/t

[Adelante]

19. I was thinking of you

I just knew Dennis would do it. :)

[slipslidingaway]

23. ..........

:hi:

Dennis did well in a small amount of time.

[Evergreen Emerald]

3. oh...I did not hear what Kucinich said.

That makes sense. Edwards' response does not, however: "cute?"

[slipslidingaway]

20. It was hard to hear..."cute Dennis" is what I just heard on the

replay...said with a dismissive attitude.

[goodgd_yall]

4. I didn't hear the "cute" part, but DK was right.

I liked his statement about voting for the person who got it right the first time.

[slipslidingaway]

21. Yes good statement, imagine if we did not have to fix all these

problems :)

[GreenArrow]

5. Spar, nothin!

Edwards'll be picking his teeth out of his shit for the next month.

[Vincardog]

8. You are correct. Do you want to bet how much of it we see in the Corporate Controlled Media?

My bet ZERO.

[slipslidingaway]

22. This was a bad debate for Edwards IMO, but it also shows

that you cannot go around criticizing others on issues where your own record is not clean. You would think he would be aware of that :shrug:


And the first few words tonight from Edwards involved the word trust :)

[GreenArrow]

29. But what else can he run on?

He's got a "populist" shtick to maintain!

[slipslidingaway]

30. :))) n/t

[William769]

9. Just one of the times Edwards got knocked on his ass.

[mtnsnake]

10. He got throttled from the getgo. Did you see how pale he got each time?

I thought Edwards was going to faint he was so flustered.

That was too funny the way Kucinich glared at him just before he leveled him with those remarks.

[BlueStater]

11. Imagination is a fun thing, isn't it? n/t

[William769]

12. Edwards has fallen into that bottomless pit.

[Renew Deal]

13. And the pit is full of smoke

:wtf:

[mtnsnake]

14. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Biden overtakes him in the national polls soon.

[William769]

15. Sooner than most people think.

[MalloyLiberal]

28. I love how you both reply back to each other. Sounds like a plant

[slipslidingaway]

24. Yes he's been too critical of others on issues where he should

remain silent or at least not attack others.

[geek tragedy]

36. I thought he was going to FIGHT. n/t

[tammywammy]

16. I couldn't believe it when he was saying it

But that was the freaking line of the night. Edwards got his butt kicked tonight in the debate.

[slipslidingaway]

26. Yes that was a great line, now the press needs to follow up n/t

[incapsulated]

25. "product liability"

I couldn't hear what he said the first time.

lol

[slipslidingaway]

27. Then Edwards replied..."Cute Dennis" n/t

[Divine Discontent]

31. I heard it, and it was just that - cute. It's fun to diss lawyers, even ones who worked as John did

as Joe Biden said, and John buzzed, it's up to our gov't to follow all those thousands of rules and regulations that we have already set forth. I thought it was a childish attempt at a whack at Edwards, as was Kucinich's other blurbs that he got shot down for saying later in the debate. He was smartly criticized by Biden regarding the words in the Patriot Act not saying a thing about allowing illegal spying, and he was shot down by Richardson, in Bill's one good moment of the night when he was trying to speak and Dennis butted in, and Bill told him to basically shut up and quit including him in every comment of "everyone up here voted for it" when Bill is a Governor and doesn't vote in Congress. Honestly, Dennis can look the BEST (Impeach them NOW!) and the worst of any of the candidates from comment to comment.

I guess when you wear rose colored glasses you think your candidate did awesome. I thought this was one of the worst performances for John in months, but he was still great on one answer, the Iran war answer about neocons, and throughout the night, he, Obama, Clinton, and Biden remained solidly "presidential". Kucinich and Richardson appeared done for, and poor Sen. Dodd, although nice, seems to appeal to next to no one as their candidate. I got a call from two independents and they were talking about how Dennis went from looking awesome on one comment then irrelevantly off topic on the next. I thought Dennis did fairly well. But to say that 'trial lawyer' comment was awesome is grasping for straws, it is, as Joe said, the president's responsibility to make sure we're not getting poisoned.

Let's all agree, this administration is the most corrupt, misguided, and full of untried criminals in the history of our nation.

I thought Biden won the debate. Everyone else tied for 2nd, and Bill was a distant last.

[slipslidingaway]

32. The Patriot Act question was introduced by Suzanne Malveaux

and then Wolf Blitzer did a follow up question and I think they added confusion when the connected the issues. Maybe Kucinich should have tried to undo the mix up, but considering the limited time he gets to speak I thought he made the most out of the time.

And again maybe he should have said everyone here except ??? voted for whatever bill is being mentioned, but he has to get his answers out quickly as he only receives a few shots.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/15/us/politics/15debate-transcript.html?pagewanted=31&_r=1&adxnnlx=1195222113-N6lmMYWt2WYdxFDmXEptEw

Just looking at the transcript Kucinich does say "people who voted for the war etc. but I'm sure there were other times when he has said everyone.

"REP. KUCINICH: I -- you're owed an apology. You really are. And every American should be able to present themselves without having to be further scrutinized based on ethnic identity.

But let's go back to the point that you made here. The time -- you know, the president of the United States is called upon to make the right decision at the right time. And you've seen here tonight people who voted for the war, voted to fund the war, and now they have a different position; people who voted for the Patriot Act, now they have a different position; people who voted for China trade, now they have a different position; people who voted for Yucca Mountain, now they had a different position. Just imagine what it will be like to have a president of the United States who's right the first time. Just imagine."


Edwards has been talking about the trade agreements, criticizing others and portraying himself as the candidate for working people while not mentioning the fact that Edwards voted with big business and against the working people and labor organizations when the China Trade bill was passed.

When you look at the votes on the bill more Republicans in Congress voted yes.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h106-4444

As for the trial lawyer comment Edwards was the one to say that 'people will be hurt.'

Calling out Edwards on his past votes and comments is something Edwards should be able to handle.

I agree that this administration is the most corrupt and surely wish that other candidates were calling for them to be held responsible.

[slipslidingaway]

33. I also wonder how many jobs have moved to China??? n/t

[Adelante]

35. But it wasn't cute, themartyred, and it wasn't a joke

Kucinich was dead serious.

[slipslidingaway]

40. And it is a serious to matter :( I started looking for more on lost

jobs and increased deficit, but I'll have to finish tomorrow. Getting it right the first time is important.


FWIW a few links

http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/issuebriefs_ib137

http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/bp188

Deficit Attention Syndrome

http://www.contraryinvestor.com/2007archives/momay07.htm

"The 800 Pound Gorilla(s)...

...Outside of crude and China, it almost seems trade with the rest of the planet is an afterthought in terms of the overall US deficit specifically..."

[CarolNYC]

34. Good for Dennis...

"Cute" Senator John responds? What a pompous, condescending SOB he is, huh?

I love Dennis. I just wish he got more respect and attention.

[slipslidingaway]

37. Yes, Edwards said "Cute Dennis" in a dismissive tone, but on

the campaign trail he talks about lost wages, jobs and the quality of goods from overseas.

:shrug:

[Adelante]

43. Edwards can get away with stuff like this

By drawing attention from himself to others:

Edwards Campaign Accuses Hillary Of Laughing At Loss Of American Jobs — Did She?
By Eric Kleefeld - November 16, 2007, 3:21PM

On a conference call this afternoon, Edwards campaign advisers tore into Hillary Clinton over her performance at last night's debate, claiming she laughed off a question about trade policies that have a direct impact on the lives of working people:

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/11/edwards_campaign_accuses_hillary_of_laughing_at_loss_of_american_jobs_did_she.php#comments

So did he laugh. He said, "Cute, Dennis." Not as cute as Edwards, that's for sure.

[slipslidingaway]

44. Thanks, only the actions of other people matter I supose???

:wtf:

Going after Hillary on trade issues shows a lack of judgement and character IMO, I'm glad Dennis raised the issue.


All votes with a breakdown, big business wanted trade policies relaxed.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h106-4444


House votes

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2000-228

Total Democrat Republican Independent

Ayes: 237 (54%) 71 165 0
Nays: 197 (45%) 135 59 1
No Vote: 1 (0%) 0 1 0

[Amanita]

38. DK made the best of his very limited time

I am surprised they even cover him, instead of saying "Candidate "X" aattacks Edwards...

[slipslidingaway]

42. Welcome to DU...

if anything the debates are a joke, but they are what they are for now.

:hi:

[Cameron27]

39. Kucinich wasn't making a joke

and when Edwards flipped him the "cute" remark, Dennis was furious. I was so glad that he mentioned his truck-driving, union-member father, and put his own working class credentials on display. I thought he was fantastic.

K&R

Too late too recommend x(

[slipslidingaway]

41. Lost jobs, wages, unsafe products, increased trade deficits...

why isn't that funny to you.

:sarcasm:

I'll try and post more on this tomorrow.

[LWolf]

45. Indeed.

Why would we take those things lightly?

If Dennis can do that with 5:37, imagine what he could do with equal time.

[Cameron27]

46. Dennis has always managed to knock it out of the park

even with zero time. It's seems important to try to keep him invisible though.

[slipslidingaway]

47. It's easier to try and dismiss an unpleasant topic that way???

Our trade deals with China are not as important.

:sarcasm:


http://www.contraryinvestor.com/2007archives/momay07.htm

"The 800 Pound Gorilla(s)

...The next chart is really the important one in terms of defining and characterizing the US trade deficit, as we know it today. What we are looking at is the percentage of the total US trade deficit being driven by both imports of crude oil and imports from China. We've delineated each separately as well as presented their ongoing combined value in the blue columns. The message is clear. In 2006, 66% of the US trade deficit is accounted for by crude imports and the trade deficit with China. It's no wonder China/US trade circumstances are such a perceptual political flash point. Unless something acts to change the trajectory of these trends, it will probably only be a year or two until crude and China account for three-quarters of the total US trade deficit. Outside of crude and China, it almost seems trade with the rest of the planet is an afterthought in terms of the overall US deficit specifically..."


http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/09/19/pntr.vote.hfr/index.html

"I believe that we will deeply regret this stampede to pass this legislation and the way in which we have taken all the human rights, religious freedom, right to organize, all of those concerns and we just put them in parenthesis, put them in brackets, as if they don't exist," said Sen. Paul Wellstone, D-Minnesota. Other opponents worried that the U.S. would be unable to influence Beijing over human rights concerns without a yearly vote on trade.

"Giving permanent normal trade relations to the government of China will destroy an important lever that we now have and we have had to influence Chinese behavior," Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Jesse Helms, R-North Carolina, argued. "We are tossing it aside."

[LWolf]

48. Dennis is right to call Edwards on this issue, of course.

As usual.