Winners: The Second Tier, Losers: Those Hoping for a nail in Hillary's coffin

[incapsulated]

Biden, Richardson and Dodd were strong on the ISSUES.

Hillary regained her footing and neither Obama or Edwards gained any ground or took advantage of any momentum. Both also had some bad moments. No one "wins" in the top tier.

Headline: Hillary Lives.


So sayeth incap.

:P

[Bullet1987]

1. The 2nd tier people like Dodd and Richardson

were actually subtely trying to protect Clinton...THAT'S why Obama and Edwards stopped going after her. Then all the Clinton supporters would boo whenever they challenged her.

[incapsulated]

3. Because going after Clinton doesn't help them

It draws attention to the Hillary-Obama-Edwards slugfest and people forget they are even on stage.

They win when issues are discussed.

[Seabiscuit]

31. You can thank CNN for that: they support Hillary and packed the audience

with Hillbots who cheered or booed on cue.

Result? The worst and least memorable of all the debates.

[Adelante]

I thought Hillary was the best tonight

Biden, Dodd and Richardson were really good, and Kucinich, too. Obama wasn't bad tonight, but not his best. Edwards was a prick and I think he turned off the audience.

[incapsulated]

5. I thought she was ok...

Mainly this was about regaining her mojo and fighting off any attacks and she did that.

I don't think she won any converts tonight but that was secondary to stopping the bleeding.

[bigdarryl]

6. What the fuck did she do that was so special except more FLIPPING AND FLOPPING

now shes against the driver license that PATHETIC

[incapsulated]

9. Really?

The story tonight on that issue is Obama's inability to answer that question with any more clarity than she did.

I'm shocked he wasn't more prepared for this, the most important non-issue going in.

[BootinUp]

11. too true. nt

[Mojorabbit]

29. I disagree

Wolf was trying to boil it down to a soundbite and Obama was putting it in context. I thought he did well reframing it. I am not an Obama supporter but he did a good job not being put in a corner.

[faithfulcitizen]

15. Yes, that shocked me too! 'NO'? Nobody followed up on that! nt

[Catherine Vincent]

17. Geeze!

:eyes:

[ronnykmarshall]

7. I think Biden was the best tonight.

Dennis was good too.

Hillary had to "recover" and she did very well.

[incapsulated]

8. Biden won on most memorable

He made the most of that debate out of any of them and if anyone picks up support after tonight it will be Biden.

[Divine Discontent]

34. it's amazing how different DU'ers can see things so differently, I like reading everyone's thoughts

I thought Hillary was solid. Biden was the best, Dodd was his typical self, but I'm not sure why he's still running, he's totally not connecting with anyone and for someone of his stature to not be higher than he is should help him decide right after he gets 2% in Iowa. The shocking one tonight was the blathering of Bill Richardson, which was disturbing, he seemed to go on and on for about 15 minutes of nothing! Only Obama & Clinton talked more, but at least they said things. Richardson did way too much of saying how he'd sit with people - over and over - country by country, and repeat "education" between mumbling and sounding confused.

Kucinich was back and forth from very good to irrelevant. Edwards was not very good but was very good on several answers but seemed put off by the insults, which is good for him to get as he really hasn't had much said to him by the other candidates - whoever wins our nomination needs battle tested NOW, so they can be strong for the pure hatred of the repubs. I thought Hillary was reaching big time by accusing John of mudslinging! Mudslinging would have been saying "can we trust Bill back in the White House!" or "Are we going to forget about the Clinton scandals and put them back in the White House?", that's mudslinging, and John would never do that crap! He is effectively (as the polls in Iowa showed this week) pointing out Hillary's gaffes from the past debate.

This debate was probably one of the least memorable, but I will remember Joe was sharp as a tack. I liked DK's impeachment comments, John's neocon/Iran comments, and Obama's SS comment. I don't think anyone really gained much, but I think Bill can give up, because he was so out of touch and following Biden there at the end, showed how much better Biden is, then Bill.

Take care! and I'm holding out hope Gore and Clark will announce a surprise ticket when TIME announces Al, "Person of the Year". :)

[faithfulcitizen]

35. Wow, I think I must see things just like you!

But I thought Kucinich was embarassing to the dems on a few questions. I just shook my head when he talked about bringing a "healer" into the whitehouse to stop abortions. I thought, oh boy, my dad (super repub) is laughing his ass off right about now. He's actually prochoice, but that was just weird to me. :eyes:

[Divine Discontent]

37. Kucinich appeared a bit kooky on that

and on his screaming about "illegal immigrants", my friend called me on that one, and said, what the H is he going on about, they're in the country illegally, that doesn't make them illegal humans, but it makes them illegal immigrants to this country. And my friend was right, it made DK appear a bit kooky, and just like you, we thought on several answers he was awesome. It just shows he's a good policy person but not suited to be president. I like him a lot, but there's 3 or 4 others on that stage that should be pres long before him. Thanks for the laugh about the image of your dad, that made me smile.

[BootinUp]

2. I think Richardson was pretty good tonight

I give a few more points to Hillary than you.

Biden was his typical self, I like Joe, said it many times.

Dodd doesn't do it for me.

[monmouth]

4. Joe Biden was awesome. His experience just shines through.

[faithfulcitizen]

10. I agree, with exception of Richardson.

I thought he did very poorly. He made some good points about PTSD and mental health, but mostly (to me) he came across as a pandering pol. Just my opinion.

[incapsulated]

14. I may be showing bias

Because I like him but I thought he exceeded my expectations.

[BootinUp]

19. I remember

when you slammed me for saying Richardson would be a threat. :P

[incapsulated]

23. And I was right

He isn't. That doesn't mean I don't like him. :P

[BootinUp]

Yeah, but he has gained more in IA

than any other 2nd tier candidate. He is nearly threatening Eddie at this point.

[incapsulated]

25. Honestly, I'm happy

I still don't think he has any shot at the nom but I'm glad he is doing well, people were ready to send him home.

[faithfulcitizen]

24. I've always liked Richardson too...

I just don't think he seems very presidential in these debates. He has a great resume though.

[incapsulated]

26. Yeah, that is what I told Jim, heh

He may even be the best of that group and make a great president but he doesn't have "it".

I hope he is in any dem cabinet though.

[Think82]

12. BIDEN WINS EVERY DEBATE, PEOPLE! Are people watching the same debates as me?

At least there are some that are coming around! Look out for Iowa

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

13. In practical terms: Hillary, Kucinich and Biden probably gained the most votes

Hillary only gained votes she lost last week, but that's a big bunch of votes.

Kucinich and Biden were memorable and mentioned impeachment. I suspect the left is disappointed with the whole top tier, and the "i" word surely perked up some ears. Kucinich was angry, which was good because his natural constituency are very angry, and want leadership.

Edwards is a wild-card. He had a terrible debate, but may have actually gained by it, just by being more populist and in-your-face than Clinton and Obama

[incapsulated]

18. I don't think she gains any *new support*

But she will stop losing it.

Biden will gain support after tonight.

I honestly don't know about Dennis, he is the anti-candidate.

[jillan]

16. I agree the 2nd tier were the winners tonite!

But the media is all about Hillary.

[bklyncowgirl]

20. I though Obama, Kucinich and Richardson were strong tonight .

I liked the tougher Obama. He was exceptional on Social Security. What was it "9% is not the middle class."

Richardson had quite a few good moments--best I've seen him--maybe he does better in his own time zone. Best moment. Smacking down Wolfie's snide little question about putting human rights above American security.

Kucinich as usual spoke truth to power and pointed out the obvious.

Biden had his moments as did Dodd. I thought Edwards was not on his game tonight. Clinton was her usual well-rehearsed self. Nothing wrong with that, of course.

[sandnsea]

21. Only because the elites don't see the failings

particularly on calling firefighters "upper income". If the punditry weren't so out of touch, they'd know that was a huge gaffe. We'll see if the Obama people can make hay out of it.

[bigwillq]

22. The so-called second tier

are 100 times more qualified and experienced than the top tier. I wish people would catch onto that and not be influenced by the media and corporations.

[Kat45]

32. I agree with you on that one.

[demommom]

27. See what happens when everyone gets to speak.

[incapsulated]

28. And they had to yell at that fuck Blitzer

Before he would even acknowledge them.

Christ I hate him.

[Seabiscuit]

30. Meanwhile, Wolf Blitzer either ignored or rudely interrupted the only candidate living in the real

world, Dennis Kucinich.

The BIGGEST LOSER: CNN.

See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3723073

[Eurobabe]

33. Go JOE!

Solidly behind Biden now. Daughter #1 watched debate and she's going Joe too. So is Mom. That leaves Daughter #2 still undecided, but she'll probably trade in her vote for an iPhone

:eyes:

:sarcasm:

:rofl:

[murbley40]

36. Great!!