Camille Paglia for Salon: Queen Hillary's disruptive court

[babylonsister]

Queen Hillary's disruptive court

The press corps finally wakes up to her waffling and evasions. Plus: Norman Mailer's largely forgotten legacy and our disappointing lesbian icons!

By Camille Paglia



The mainstream media have been in a breathless tizzy about how Hillary Clinton waffled, tripped, stumbled or generally screwed up at the Democratic debate in Philadelphia two weeks ago.

But Hillary's performance at prior debates was never as deft or "flawless" as the media claimed in the first place. Conventional wisdom has now flipped, and the air-headed lemmings of our free press have turned on a dime and are stampeding in the opposite direction. This is the same crew who passively swallowed administration propaganda about the urgency of an invasion of Iraq. Don't ask for critical acumen from this lot.

Hillary's stonewalling evasions and mercurial, soulless self-positionings have been going on since her first run for the U.S. Senate from New York, a state she had never lived in and knew virtually nothing about.

That compulsive micromanagement, ultimately emanating from Hillary herself, has come back to haunt her in her dismaying inability to field complex unscripted questions in a public forum. The presidential sweepstakes are too harsh an arena for tenderfoot novices. Hillary's much-vaunted "experience" has evidently not extended to the dynamic give-and-take of authentic debate. The mild challenges she has faced would be pitiful indeed by British standards, which favor a caustic style of witty put-downs that draw applause and gales of laughter in the House of Commons. Women had better toughen up if they aspire to be commander in chief.

Whether John Edwards or Barack Obama (toward whom I'm currently leaning) has conclusively demonstrated his superiority for the top of the ticket remains to be seen. They may unfortunately split the anti-Hillary vote (a majority of registered Democrats) so that she slips through. If Hillary is the Democratic nominee, I will certainly vote for her. But I continue to find it hard to believe that my party truly craves that long nightmare of déjà vu -- with scandal after scandal disgorged and an endless train of abused women returning from Bill Clinton's sordid, anti-feminist past.

more...

http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2007/11/14/hillary/

[endarkenment]

1. Paglia is a rightwing tool. nt.

[babylonsister]

4. Prove it; she says she's a Dem and so does her bio. I

checked because I just knew someone would say that.

[cali]

6. It seems you're not very familiar with her

writings.

[babylonsister]

8. I realize she's controversial. I figure people can read this or not. I'm

just throwing it out there, like I do everything else.

[Evergreen Emerald]

10. But why?

Why post this right-wing crap on a progressive board knowing that she is not progressive and has an agenda? What is next? Why I hate Hillary by Sean Hannity?

[babylonsister]

13. If you even bothered to read it you'd see she intends on voting

Dem as she has in the past and will vote for Clinton should that be her only option. What's with all the knee-jerk reactions around here? Don't read it if you don't want, but now we're only allowed to post what's p.c. to you? Sorry, you'll need to make me a list so I can get in line.

[TwilightZone]

16. She's a well-known shill.

Feigning ignorance and attacking the messenger don't make her any more acceptable a source.

Joe Lieberman has voted Dem in the past and probably will in '08. Does that alone make him a legitimate source? Suddenly, it's ok to use anyone a source, as long as he/she claims to be a Dem? That'll come as a bit of a surprise to about 98% of DU.

[babylonsister]

17. So don't read it, okay? I don't need anyone to tell me what's

'acceptable' to post here, unless it's Skinner. I'm aware of several people and sites that are verboten, but hadn't heard about this writer or Salon. I'll abide by the rules when I'm made aware of them.

[cali]

15. I'm not suggesting you shouldn't post this

simply that just because she's a dem, doesn't mean that she doesn't hold reactionary right wing views. See Joe Lieberman or Zell Miller.

[endarkenment]

11. You should do more research.

The late Molly Ivins, an actual progressive feminist, on Paglia:

When Paglia came onto the public scene in 1991, Molly Ivins wrote a scathing review of Sexual Personae in which she accused Paglia of historical inaccuracy, demagoguery of second-wave feminists, egocentrism, and writing in sweeping generalizations.<51> Ivins concluded her polemic against Paglia with this much reproduced quote:

There is one area in which I think Paglia and I would agree that politically correct feminism has produced a noticeable inequity. Nowadays, when a woman behaves in a hysterical and disagreeable fashion, we say, "Poor dear, it's probably PMS." Whereas, if a man behaves in a hysterical and disagreeable fashion, we say, "What an asshole." Let me leap to correct this unfairness by saying of Paglia, Sheesh, what an asshole.


My current hero of the anti-fascist left, Naomi Wolf, on the same idiot:

Third-wave feminist Naomi Wolf traded a series of barbed (and sometimes personal) attacks with Paglia throughout the early 1990s. In an article in The New Republic, Wolf labeled Paglia, "the nipple-pierced person's Phyllis Schlafly who poses as a sexual renegade but is in fact the most dutiful of patriarchal daughters." She went on to call Paglia's writing "full of howling intellectual dishonesty.".<54>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camille_Paglia

Paglia's claims of being a Democrat are as specious as Lieberman's.

[hlthe2b]

19. Two women for whom I have the deepest respect..

I'd not seen those comments... Thanks....Surely their assessments will waken some eyes to the true "Paglia." :thumbsup:

[incapsulated]

26. Thank you

I despise Paglia.

[KoKo]

32. I used to read Paglia on Salan back in the late 90's. At first she was amusing

with an edgy, surprising style...then the more i read the more I began to feel there was alot of pretense about her and finally I decided she was a tool for the conservatives while appearing to be liberal. Molly Ivans and Naomi Wolf and myself share the same opinion about Paglia. She's no Dem even if she is trying to pretend to be one. Here readership must be down.

[Broke Dad]

36. Re: And Molly Ivins did not support Hillary either

The good news is that when the real thing, Ivins, and the imposter,Paglia, agree on something - you can take it to the bank. BOTH agree that Hillary should not be president!!!!

Hillary did not fool Molly.

[TwilightZone]

12. Doesn't Chris Hitchens say he's a Dem? How about Joe Lieberman?

I can say that I'm the Queen of England. Claiming so doesn't make it true.

Don't believe everything you read.

[Captain Hilts]

7. And batshit crazy. nt

[ClarkUSA]

27. How so? According to Wikipedia, she voted for Bill Clinton and campaigned for JFK as a teenager.

"Paglia describes herself as a feminist, and as a Democrat who voted for Bill Clinton and Ralph Nader, and even campaigned for
John F. Kennedy as an adolescent. Her views on the legalization of recreational drugs and prostitution, and on the relaxation of
sexual consent laws, are more libertarian... At the same time Paglia's embrace of fetishism, pornography, prostitution, and
most prominently, male homosexuality, puts her at odds with the "family values" of American social conservatives."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camille_Paglia

[Windy]

2. Oh dear....

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[LoZoccolo]

3. "They may unfortunately split the anti-Hillary vote..."

Yeah, everyone who prefers Edwards or Obama is "anti-Hillary".

[Moochy]

23. Aww someones just sad cuz their flamebait poll got locked

:hug:

[Alamom]

5. Paglia's extreme disgust of this candidate has been discussed

this week and it seems Paglia is not a favorite here.......not even when bashing Clinton.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3714929

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. I Used Her To Like Her

She was the one of the first so called "do me feminists"... I remember her writing that there was nothing more liberating and erotic than watching male gay porn...

[Bitwit1234]

14. When that green eyed monster rears it's ugly head..

[pansypoo53219]

18. fooey, who let her come back?

i guess she wants another 15 minutes. who's giving them to her????
always found her extremely tiresome. was never impressed height of pretentious. i love what molly said.

[sundancekid]

20. any chance we could ACTUALLY get to discussing the substance

(or lack thereof) of the frigging MESSAGE - instead of getting all these intellectual wedgies over just the MESSENGER ?????

[hlthe2b]

21. I've seen no lack of threads discussing the flaws of Clinton... OR

any of the other candidates the past days, weeks, and months...So, many, in fact, it is nearly overwhelming. You see you can bring up these issues, without hiding behind a RW source with a not well-hidden agenda. Feel free. Converse.

[endarkenment]

22. With Paglia? not possible by intention.

She has deliberately made her persona part of her message.

[Andromeda]

24. Paglia just wants people to think...

she's witty and smart. Her words betray her, however, because no sane person could make any sense out of her verbose meanderings.

C.P. is just pining for the days of the Clinton scandals when she was in her element, begging to be abused.

[illinoisprogressive]

25. it is really quite witty.

[Beacool]

28. No surprise coming from Camille

She has never liked the Clintons and lambasted Hillary when she didn't leave Bill after the Monica fiasco. She may be a Democrat but she sure spews enough venom for two right wingers!

[eridani]

29. Why, oh why, did Molly Ivins have to leave us at a time like this?

http://www.its.caltech.edu/~erich/misc/ivins_on_paglia


In addition to the intrinsic cultural superiority Ms. Paglia attributes to herself from having grown up watching television ("It's Howdy-Doody Time" obviously made us all smarter), she also considers her own taste in music to be of enormous significance. {"From the moment the feminist movement was born, it descended into dogma," she told an interviewer for _New York_ magazine. "They stifled any kind of debate, any kind of dissent. Okay, it's Yale, it's New Haven in '69, I am a rock fanatic, okay .... So I was talking about taste to these female rock musicians, and I said the Rolling Stones were the greatest rock band, and that just set them off. They said, `The Rolling Stones are sexist, and it's bad music because it's sexist.' I said: `Wait a minute. You can't make a judgements about art on the basis of whether it fits into some dogma.' And now they're yelling, screaming, saying that nothing that demeans women can be art.

"You see, right from the start it was impossible for me to be taken into the feminist movement, okay? The only art they will permit is art that gives a positive image of women. I said, `That's like the Soviet Union; that is the demagogic, propagandistic view of art.' "

Well, by George, as a First Amendment absolutist, you'll find me willing to spring to the defense of Camille Paglia's right to be a feminist Rolling Stones fan any hour, day or night. Come to think of it, who the hell was the Stalin who wouldn't let her do that? I went back and researched the '69 politburo, and all I could find was Betty Friedan, Bella Abzug, and Gloria Steinem, none of whom ever seems to have come out against rock music.

I have myself quite cheerfully been both a country-music fan and a feminist for years --- if Camille Paglia is the cosmos, so am I. When some fellow feminist doesn't like my music (How could you not like "You are just another sticky wheel on the grocery cart of life"?), I have always felt free to say, in my politically correct feminist fashion, "Fuck off."

[guruoo]

30. Camille Paglia

Interview with the Vamp

Why Camille Paglia hates affirmative action,
defends Rush Limbaugh, and respects Ayn Rand

http://www.reason.com/news/show/29737.html

[gateley]

31. K&R! nt

[closeupready]

33. Camille. A crew is not a "who", it's a "which".

:eyes:

[closeupready]

34. And also, New York is not a state she had never lived in, it's

a state in which she had never lived. :eyes: I'm sorry, I don't mean to be petty, but I really can't stand her, and her pretentiousness.

[terrya]

35. Oh, Camille is still around?

"yawn"