Oliver Willis: Ron Paul is NOT the 08 Howard Dean....Stormfront supporting Paul.

[madfloridian]

It has been alarming to me how the people supporting Paul keep saying his name in the same breath as Howard Dean. They are absolutely nothing alike at all.

Glad to see Oliver Willis pick up on this issue.

From his blog...Like Kryptonite To Stupid, he points out the white supremacist support for Ron Paul.

Ron Paul & The White Power Movement

By Oliver Willis on November 12, 2007 3:57 PM
Among the many reasons why I think the comparison to Howard Dean's campaign is beyond faulty is the fact that Gov. Dean did not become a phenomenon because of support from 9/11 truthers and white supremacists. Paul's support seems to largely come from the superfringe, very disaffected folks who haven't been involved in politics before -- and based on their bizarro beliefs, that may actually be a good thing ("The role of the wackjob has been filed by the RNC, but we appreciate your interest").

Here is the Michigan Messenger write up about this support:

White Supremacists Rallying Around Ron Paul's Presidential Campaign

Republican presidential hopeful Ron Paul, whose long-shot campaign has been gaining media attention in recent days, apparently has the support of an unusual constituency -- the white supremacist movement.
Stormfront.org, a white supremacy web site, as well as others, such as WhiteWorldNews.com, have actively supported Paul's bid for the presidency, including directing donors to his campaign. Stormfront has also endorsed Paul for president.

"Once in a great while a presidential candidate is presented to us. A candidate who not only speaks to us, but for us...I am supporting Ron Paul in his run for the presidency," the Stormfront endorsement says. The endorsement praises Paul's plans to reduce taxes, close the borders and eliminate trade deals, such as NAFTA.

"Whatever organization you belong to, remember first and foremost that you are a white nationalist," the endorsement continues. "Put your differences with one and other aside and work together. Work together to strive to get someone in the Oval Office who agrees with much of what we want for our future. Look at the man. Look at the issues. Look at our future. Vote for Ron Paul 2008."

The white supremacy movement directs potential donors to the independent ThisNovember5th.com web site, which is a fundraising mechanism for the Paul campaign. The web site netted Paul $4.2 million from some 37,000 people on Nov. 5 -- a record amount raised in a single day through the Internet by any Republican candidate.

There are many things about Ron Paul that don't fit the values of the Democratic Party at all. He considers abortion mass murder, he did not think the government should help out Katrina victims, he does not believe in Social Security.

I keep furious to see the two compared. Here is Dean's stance on Social Security.

Howard Dean

"Social Security is a moral value for people who have worked all their life. They deserve to retire with dignity. We ought not to turn our retirement programs over to the same people who gave us Enron."

...."You know the Social Security debate is not just about money. It's about whether we have responsibility for each other as a community, or not."

Ron Paul's ideas and more at the link.

The scary views of Ron Paul

Voted NO on sending aid to Katrina victims.

"Last year, Congress decided to send billions of dollars to victims of Hurricane Katrina. Guess how Ron Paul voted.

"Is bailing out people that chose to live on the coastline a proper function of the federal government?" he asks. "Why do people in Arizona have to be robbed in order to support the people on the coast?"

Thanks to Oliver Willis for calling attention to this.

[rodeodance]

1. Paul is not going anyplace and in the meantime he is talking loud against the war

[Selatius]

2. It seems Ron is getting more attention on the anti-war issue than Kucinich has.

Has that been your feeling on it? I hear Ron's name more than Kucinich's name, but then again I live in Mississippi.

[yardwork]

3. I'm disgusted by the support for Ron Paul in North Carolina.

How dare these morans support this extreme right-wing white supremacist xenophobe while ignoring Dennis Kucinich? Sometimes I feel like slapping their ears back. Seriously.

[silverback]

7. So...

if Farrakhan and his ilk support Obama does that make him a black supremicist too?

There are a lot of fringe elements who support Paul, fringies tend to believe the government is lying to them, and Paul has one thing going for him no other republican, maybe no other politician, does.

He's honest, and he's got a 30 year record to prove it.

Add that to his minimalist/libertarian approach to governance and the fact that he's the only Republican talking about a different direction for the Repuke party and you don't have to look any further for why he's supported by so many groups NOT represented by the neocons, good and bad.

There's nothing more dispicable than calling a decent man a racist for political gain, and that's what you've just done.

Congratulations.

[madfloridian]

10. A man can be a good man and have lousy stances. He has scary views.

He voted not to send aid to Katrina victims. He does not want us helping each other.

That goes against what America has stood for.

[Basileus Basileon]

17. Paul is not a decent man. Knock it off.

Paul is a throwback to the eighteen-hundreds. Personally decent? Who cares? Hitler had his moments, too. We judge politicians based on the morality of their stances, and Paul is bankrupt.

Against the Iraq war? Yeah, that's great--only he's against the Iraq war because he doesn't give a fuck about foreigners, and would rather become completely isolationist. That's not morality, that's supreme selfishness.

[dugggy]

19. Hitler liked kids, and had his good moments

but that does not make him a decent man. If Ron Paul had any
decency, he would have returned contributions from KKK type
groups.

[Tresalisa]

27. What little I have seen of Ron Paul

he just seems like a confused little old man. I understand he is not quite an R, more like a libertarian. You are correct that he is the only one running on the pug side talking about a different direction.

DENNIS KUCINICH IN 2008

[katmondoo]

4. He has a bill board near Ocala Florida on I 75 North

Just says Ron Paul for President

[ConfidentialStatus]

5. Ron Paul has 5 supporters

But they make a lot of noise and trick DUers to start threads about him. :)

[madfloridian]

11. Not funny at all.

He is running for president of the USA, and he gathered 4 million in one day.

Of course he has supporters, a lot of them, many of them college students who think they have no need to care for each other.

[Basileus Basileon]

16. His supporters regularly maintain multiple accounts on many message boards,

and use spoofed IP addresses to skew polls.

[dugggy]

21. I have noticed that..all those KKK types are fanatics

[NashVegas]

6. I Do Not Support Paul's Candidacy - But Yes, He Is the Repub's Howard Dean for This Election

But he does strike me - as he struck so many people on DU during the IWR debates - as a sincere individual. I wish I could find those threads.

Many of the mainstream Republicans who are backing him are the same type mainstream Republicans who backed and donated to Dean. Those who are making associations between Paul and various bad guys in black hats (White Power, mystery bot-nets) are falling for the same dirty tricks that people who received phone calls from "Dean's campaign" at 2am were subject to.


Let's be real: Ron Paul doesn't stand a chance of winning the 2008 election (which is fine by me), but his message is dangerous to the Republican party. No matter how many press releases the junta puts out, average Republicans don't want war with Iraq or Iran any more than Democrats do. Average Republicans don't want torture or NSA/FBI snooping on US citizens any more than average Democrats do.

[madfloridian]

8. I am not believing your defense of his views.

If he is a libertarian, fine, so be it. But the comparison to Dean stops at the opposition to the war.

I listened to a young woman on Ed Schultz today singing his praises. The man has really awful views on things that should alarm people.

I really do resent the comparisons to Dean because he stood for so much more.

[NashVegas]

15. It's Not About His View, Overall

But the fact he is challenging the Republican party from within, challenging the administration's message on the war (unlike every other Republican and most Democratic candidates) AND, unlike Dennis Kucinich, polls well after a debate. That and the fact that, in spite of how much the media and his party wish he would go away, he's not doing too badly in donations.

Those are the parallels to the 2004 Dean campaign.

I've never said that Ron Paul is to US what Dean was in 2004, but rather, he is to Republicans, for 2008, what Dean was to Democrats, in 2004. He threatens the party machinery.

[nxylas]

30. Nobody ever said that Paul's VIEWS are the same as Dean's

The comparisons to Dean are because both candidates made use of the Internet to raise a good amount of money in the form of lots of small donations rather than a few big (corporate) ones. That's as far as the similarity goes.

[cali]

9. yep, he's sincere alrighty. he's sincere about killing people.

Eliminating OSHA: check

Outlawing abortion: check

getting rid of all environmental protections: check

getting rid of regulations on corporations: check

He's sincere alright.

And how do you know he's being supported largely by mainstream repubs? Or that mainstream repubs supported Dean? Seems you're just pulling that out of thin air.

[madfloridian]

18. Good points....especially about the deregulating of everything.

"Eliminating OSHA: check

Outlawing abortion: check

getting rid of all environmental protections: check

getting rid of regulations on corporations: check"

Exactly, that is why he is scary.

And don't forget anything like FEMA would not be favored...helping one state at the expense of another.

[madfloridian]

12. Oh, gee, Oliver's being attacked viciously in the comments.

This is just getting crazy.

[AtomicKitten]

13. It's difficult to believe anyone could possibly make that connection.

I think some people need to acquaint themselves with Paul's entire platform, and I'm sure it will come as a shock. He is nothing like Howard Dean.

[ProSense]

14. Is it any wonder Bush served two terms?

People are seriously fucking confused! Seriously!

[madfloridian]

20. Alarming statements from 1992 by Ron Paul as reported by Houston Chronicle.

The Houston Chronicle documented Paul as having written some questionable materials himself. In his 1992 independent political newsletter, Paul reported on a survey of blacks. He has refused to provide the survey to anyone. His comments include:


"Opinion polls show that only about 5 percent of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty and the end of welfare and affirmative action."

"Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the 'criminal justice system,' I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal."

"We are constantly told it is evil to be afraid of black men, it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers."

"We don't think a child of 13 should be held responsible as a man of 23. That's true for most people, but black males who have been raised and who have joined criminal gangs are as big, strong, tough, scary and culpable as any adult and should be treated as such."

Here's the Chronicle article from 1996 which covers that 1992 issue.
http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=1996_1343749

Here's the Messenger article which mentions it:

http://michiganmessenger.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=404

And hat tip to Ybor City Stogie for getting my attention on this issue.

http://yborcitystogie.blogspot.com/2007/11/white-supremacists-endorse-ron-paul.html

[sampsonblk]

22. This is the GOP base in a nutshell.

Why are we compromising with the nutcases? Why are we treating them like they are normal human beings?

[madfloridian]

23. Orcinus has a long link-filled thread with videos....about some who support Paul

I was really surprised by some of it, especially the videos.

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2007/11/dark-side-of-paul-phenomenon.html

It is a fascinating read, and Ron Paul is most certainly NOT anything like Howard Dean.

[madfloridian]

24. By Paul's reasoning....why should we help people who live anywhere?

"Is bailing out people that chose to live on the coastline a proper function of the federal government?" he asks. "Why do people in Arizona have to be robbed in order to support the people on the coast?"

By that reasoning, we should not help people who live where there are hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, fires etc.

Pretty pathetic.

[DinahMoeHum]

25. When all is said and done, Ron Paul is still a Republikkkan. . .

and therefore a fascist pig.

But if he helps destroy the Goopers, it's fine by me.

:evilfrown:

[McCamy Taylor]

26. Paul is most useful as a potential third party splitter. MIght he do this

in order to assure an end to the war? I think not, but you can never tell. In and of himself, he is a fruitcake with some righteous ideas but entirely unqualified to run a country. Dean would have made a fine president.

[Guaranteed]

28. No, he's certainly not. Dean made good use of his common sense.

Whereas Ron Paul is an ideologue.

[saltpoint]

29. Good point, well stated, and right on.

[madfloridian]

31. This appears to be from the Ron Paul Political Report from the 1990s

There was a diary at Daily Kos in May of this year.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gB0gLxPaPV8

"It is extremely difficult to track down content from the Ron Political/Survival Report today. The Report only had about 7,000 subscribers, and Paul has—unsurprisingly—refused to release copies to the media. Lexis/Nexis is of no help, as the obscure publication largely escaped the notice of major media publications during Paul's hiatus from electoral politics. What remains to us today comes almost entirely from secondary sources, such as quasi-samizdat publications and contemporaneous Usenet postings from sources like Google Groups. These few fragments of a much larger body of work—almost all of which have been preserved by Paul's supporters, not his opponents—give us an illuminating and frightening look into his demented, racist worldview.

...."The only complete article from the Ron Paul Political Report on the Internet that I am aware of is a 1992 piece titled "LOS ANGELES RACIAL TERRORISM," on the subject of the so-called Rodney King riots in South Central Los Angeles in 1991. It is available to us today because it was posted to the talk.politics.misc newsgroup on July 30, 1993 by Dan Gannon, a notorious white supremacist and Holocaust denier, and archived by the Nizkor Project, an anti-revisionism organization that was active in cataloging hate speech on the early public Internet. You can read Nizkor's copy of the article here, and see a reposted version on Google Groups here. Some relevant passages from the article (emphasis mine)"

It linked to this article that is not for the faint of heart.

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.african.american/msg/c8668bd3662b0fa5