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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 01:01 PM
Original message
"Obama...often seems intent on demonizing the very people who helped get him his start"
Edited on Sun Nov-11-07 01:03 PM by Karmadillo
http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=2312

Cut Points In The Foreign Policy Domain: Obama's Questionable Strategy
by: Paul Rosenberg
Sat Nov 10, 2007 at 15:44:37 PM EST

In my diary earlier today on Ron Paul, I noted how he fell among the 0.2% of people totally opposed to federal social welfare policies--a remarkably far-right fringe position from which to launch a campaign that even seeks to appeal to progressives distressed with the Democrats' inept and confused response to the Iraq War. While Ron Paul stands zero chance of being elected President, he is doing a bang-up job of expanding the rightwing extremist base of influence, which is what a hegemonic cultural warrior ought to be doing. Too bad he is on the other side.

Now I want to flip to the other side, and take a look at how a much better positioned progressive candidate--Barack Obama--has managed to do the exact opposite: take a majoritarian position and cut it to pieces. He, too, will probably not be President. But unlike Paul, he is doing virtually nothing to build influence for ideological base. In fact, he's doing the exact opposite: his funciton is to divide and sometimes even demonize that base.

My points of reference here are how Obama himself has characterized the divisions in foreign policy as he sees them, and how he responds.

In a MyDD diary last December, The Two Obamas and Me, Part One, Chris contrasted the principle-driven Obama who first inspired tremendous netroots support with the compromise-driven Obama were seen since, who often seems intent on demonizing the very people who helped get him his start. Chris cited this example:

In town-hall meetings, when those who opposed the war get shrill, Obama makes a point of noting that while he, too, opposed the war, he's "not one of those people who cynically believes Bush went in only for the oil."

Chis followed up:

Did anyone with any power every say that? Did any leading Democrats ever say that? Did any progressive or liberal of any public stature ever say that? If they did, I'd love to see the quote.

More recently, on November 2nd, in a diary, Establishment Revolution?, Chris cited this passage from a Sunday's New York Times magazine article:

In 1981, Obama arrived at Columbia University, where he majored in international relations. He wrote his senior thesis on the North-South debate on trade then raging as part of the demand for a "new international economic order." But he says that he was never much of a lefty. Obama offers himself as the representative of a new generation, free of the dogmas that still burden the Democratic Party. "The Democrats have been stuck in the arguments of Vietnam," he said to me on the campaign plane, "which means that either you're a Scoop Jackson Democrat or you're a Tom Hayden Democrat and you're suspicious of any military action. And that's just not my framework."

The cut points that Obama makes are, I will argue, fundamentally misguided and destructive. Even if the dividions were accurate, the only reason to focus on such divisions in the first place should be to heal them, not simply highlight them. Besides, Ron Paul's example clearly shows that the most effective strategy is not even to talk about divisions. But I don't want to simply be negative. I want to illuminate what the real cut points are, and why it makes so much more sense to focus on them realistically in forming our policy.

lots more...

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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well as I said first gays
than baby boomers, I guess the senior citizens are next. And then how about into the ethnic groups....He's sitting on the fence trying to figure out which way to jump...you know like all the hard votes he sits out...then he can jump in at the last minute and says I could woulda shoulda voted of that, IF I HAD BEEN THERE.
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Don't forget the atheists
Atheists have been target since day one...
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. So of course the gaytheists are completely out
We're really f*cked.
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ripple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
22. Bullshit
I'm a lesbian and an agnostic and I believe Obama would do more than any candidate out there to ensure equality, regardless of sexual orientation or faith. He's made it clear that ALL people should be respected and be provided the same constitutional rights, regardless of their faith, or lack thereof.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Name a Dem candidate who hasn't made that clear
Everyone says the same stuff... it's a Democratic primary.

Obama's actions say far more than some canned statement of an uncontroversial position.
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ripple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. I agree. I look at Obama's record
and it's far more progressive than his campaign rhetoric suggests. His approach is based on constitutional standards most of us can agree upon. It isn't about sensationalism, it's about equality.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. The Nutroots folks have always hated him.
The nuts at that site have speculated about which level of Hell Obama belongs in.

They've also declared his candidacy dead about fifteen times.



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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. He's not quite pure enough for some of the keyboard warriors...
who want to tell us all what to think. Awwww...pity them.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Many have moved from being single issue voters to single incident voters
their beautiful minds being incapable of comprehending the rare and unintended offense.
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Or maybe, just maybe, they see a pattern of disconnected walk and talk from Mr Obama
...that some other beautiful minds can't quite admit exists.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Exactly. Obama is only talk, when it comes to progressive issues. (nt)
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. Touche
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't trust him! That's why I'm supporting Edwards!
I'm getting a feeling that he wants to privatize social security. The language he's using.. (generation gap) is staight out of the AEI talking points.
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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm in agreement with what Obama said here. nt
Edited on Sun Nov-11-07 02:45 PM by calteacherguy
GoBama!
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KaptBunnyPants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Why do you believe that Bush went into Iraq, then?
nm
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I'll answer that
It's in the neocon bible, aka "The PNAC Letter"

It's about America maintaining a presence in the Middle East to combat/offset influence by oil rich anti-democratic entities. It's their position that we need to respond fast to future threats in the region ,and need an already established force and base to do it from.

Bush's references to Korea and how we stay there is a nod to this theory of hegemony.
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KaptBunnyPants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Invading Iraq in order to maintain influence in the oil rich region
doesn't seem to be much different than just saying it's about oil. We don't seem to care much about influence in regions without vital natural resources, after all.
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. That's true, but I sometimes wonder
if the reason to invade was to keep the oil unpumped, and not to get at it. It would still be "about oil" but with a different twist

Howevre, like the previous poster, I think it's about control of the region and not necesarily getting at the oil in Iraq (but it's still about the oil)
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. We may have been able to lift the sanctions and just bought it for cheaper...
Edited on Sun Nov-11-07 08:22 PM by LoZoccolo
...than what we've spent on the war.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
16. Karmadillo often seems intent on demonizing Obama.
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. In what way?
nt
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
17. forget 'people who helped get him his start'... he's demonizing his supporters
but they seem blissfully unaware of it.
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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. Obama is a deck of cards ready to fold. An example of this
was last night when Obama said he had never held the ambition of being president but several newspaper accounts from his teachers say that Obama wrote that he wanted to become president. Oh, he might be able to come across as another Jummy Swaggart and stir the crowd but the country is not looking for another preacher man. The country is looking for someone to take this country back to the days of us being held in high esteem around the world and we had more friends then enemies. All our allies working together and that is what we had prior to bush and Obama likes to talk about not going back to the 90's. Well Mr O Americans from all walks of life saw the 90's as the era of peace and prsoperity and the only one that is talking about bill and his fellatio is you. Hell, America has moved on past that too....Hell, you say you wanna look forward but O you the only candidate along with Edwards that brings up the fellatio ordeal....

Oh and Clinton left office with an approval rating in polls ranging from 68 to 72%....Now WJC has an approval post presidency at 60%. And for some reason you believe the republicans will try again bringing out that fellatio and impeachment, but Mr O if they do the American people will reject them as they did giving WJC an approval of 72% while the impeachment was going on.....


I do thank you

Ben David
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Excellent analysis!
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