This is a follow-up poll to yesterday's Kucinich UFO thread.

[LoZoccolo]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3704325&mesg_id=3704325

I would like to see where the opinions of DU are at regarding this issue.

Which do you think is the most likely scenario?

[slick8790]

1. Maybe he just saw like a plane or something and convinced himself it was a ufo?

I don't know, I think there are other possibilities than your poll allows.

[Lerkfish]

2. another choice

the DLC is attempting to use this to marginalize the only candidate who is upholding true democratic ideals.

interesting that talk of UFOS under any other circumstance at DU is relegated to the dungeon, but if its used to attack Kucinich, its not.

and your poll needlessly biased.


for one thing, we can't say what he did or didn't see, only he can.

your choices all slam him as a nutjob or a liar.

the real question is: why is the DLC and clinton supporters so frightened of Kucinich they have to spend this amount of energy?

[LoZoccolo]

4. The DLC flew the spacecraft, lol.

They also fed the tape of the Dean scream to the media.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3349253

[Lerkfish]

7. LOL! you're an unwitting self-parody.

good luck with that.

[skipos]

6. Wether this poll is fair or not

I can assure you that Clinton supporters are absolutely not afraid of Kucinich. He has little money, little support and little influence.

And FWIW, Clinton is my last choice for the nomination.

[Lerkfish]

10. then why spend all this energy to marginalize his candidacy?

actions speak louder than words.

I agree they SHOULDN"T be afraid of him, but for some reason, they fell threatened enough to waste a lot of time discrediting him.

[LoZoccolo]

12. Because he showed that he did not make a good decision in the face of an extraordinary event.

That's a mark against his leadership abilities, which is something that he'll need if he wins the office of President.

[Lerkfish]

17. so says you.

seeing a UFO is something a lot of people have experienced, some of them presidents.

Are you saying Jimmy Carter was also unqualified to be president, for example?
Astronauts have also reported UFOS, policeman, civic leaders, etc.

[LoZoccolo]

19. Yeah, see, you still don't understand the point of the post. n/t

[doublethink]

22. I think the point of you OP is this ......

to sow 'deceit' be dis-ingenues about Mr. Kucinich and his abilities to lead. I quote you .... Because he showed that he did not make a good decision in the face of an extraordinary event .... and ask you to read post #18 below. Now tell me wtf 'decision' did Mr. Kucinich make? WTF kind of 'decision' is there to make in this circumstance? There is no 'decision' here, one need not be made nor was there. What are you talking about? He saw something he couldn't explain .... What's this 'decision' you speak of? Oh yea he answered a question 'honestly' ......

You know I generally believe in progressive, left leaning sided people, lifestyle, politics etc... etc... because in my experience in life they don't have to resort to 'deceitful' tactics, can argue as adults, have a 'point' backed up by TRUTH, logic, integrity, honesty, care, you know 'righteous things'. I see none of that in your 'point' here. Even so, all the best. Peace.

[LoZoccolo]

23. Read the post to which I link in the OP.

There are things which should have been done if Kucinich actually saw a UFO.

[doublethink]

26. Oh yea, says who? You? And Enough left leaning truthful DU'ers (as I discussed above) ...

already addressed your speculation in the attached post. Sigh ... okay I'll play your speculation game just once, in fact I'll 'ASSUME' in my argument just like you do that I too know a few things. Here we go, ready, okay Kucinich actually did go to the proper authorities back when and did report his sighting to the federal government. In fact ... because of his story a whole race of violent space aliens hiding in the forests of Ohio, were wiped out by our military. Therefore Kucinch saved the world back then. Oh but of course this story is so 'Top Secret' ..... it's never been released to the general public. And because of National Security Kucinch to this day can't talk of the decisions he made back then. The end.

There ..... now ya have it, Mr. Kucinch did make the right decision after all. My point is that any speculation on this asinine subject can be turned around with what you or I know to make Kucinch a hero, just as your asinine speculation trys to make him a goat.

Peace.

[skipos]

21. Anonymous postings on the internet bring out the worst in everyone.

A someone who is neither a HRC 08 fan or a Kucinich 08 fan, everyone's supporters can be pretty ridiculous. I can't help but notice everytime there is some hysterical, underinformed post about Clinton, 90% of the time the poster has a Kucinich avatar. Check it out...

[Name removed]

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[Naturyl]

3. How would we possibly know this?

Anyone who chooses any of these options should provide evidence supporting their choice.

[Lerkfish]

5. are you going to do this same thread in different forms everyday from here on out?

just curious.

maybe you could instead post threads detailing your own candidate's qualifications.

[LoZoccolo]

9. I don't have my own candidate.

Hillary is the own I know the most about though, due to people attacking her spuriously and then getting rebutted.

[Lerkfish]

11. um...sure. ok.

:rolleyes:

[polichick]

8. I think DK was very clear about the situation...

It doesn't bother me in the least ~ why second guess him like this?

[frogcycle]

13. poll is bogus, just like the premise in the referenced thread

you choose to define three options for what he saw, with the fourth that he lied.

People see things they cannot identify. There are myriad reasons. Weather phenomena, weather balloons, perfectly normal commercial aircraft with strange lighting phenomena making them seem wierd; simple disorientation due to lack of reference for depth perception...and on and on and on


DK didn't claim it was any of the three things you defined, and I doubt he was intentionally lying.

Of the many people who firmly believe they actually HAVE seen something they believe was extraterrestrial, none have been able to report credibly to anyone and accomplish the "pinnacle accomplishment of our space program." Without hard evidence, they are dismissed as delusional, mistaken, or nuts. So even if he has a personal belief that it was something specific, he has no more responsibility to report that breathlessly to NASA than I do to tell someone my unprovable beliefs about the JFK assassination.

Why don't you stop flogging this dead horse?

[Fox Mulder]

14. I don't know why it's a big deal that DK saw a UFO.

Go here: http://www.nuforc.org/ Look at how many people have seen and reported UFOs.

[sce56]

15. Another ambush Poll

He saw something that was unidentified PERIOD
I suppose the OP'er never saw something in the sky he could not explain was it a bird no a plane no a helicopter no a missile etc etc etc

[cyclezealot]

16. Silly, Silly poll.

Must have been constructed by the DLC. How about he saw something similiar to whatever it was Carter and Reagan saw.

[DemBones DemBones]

38. He's probably forgotten Carter saw a UFO.

I didn't know Reagan did; I tried to ignore him as much as possible!

Saying that you saw an Unidentified Flying Object does not mean you're claiming you saw a spacecraft driven by ETs. The military develops new aircraft all the time and that could be what Kucinich and Carter saw. Who knows? Who cares?

Kucinich should have answered the question better, by saying that he saw an unidentified aircraft, which is the same thing as a UFO, but once you say UFO, some people get out their :tinfoilhat:

It's like "conspiracy theory." Many things occur due to a conspiracy but if you say you believe in a "conspiracy theory," it's :tinfoilhat: time again.

We're supposed to believe that everything happens by coincidence and that there are never unidentified and unidentifiable aircraft in the skies. If you believe that, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you . . . :evilgrin:

[doublethink]

18. He saw .....

SOMETHING IN THE SKY THAT HE COULDN'T IDENTIFY AND IT WAS FLYING

Here's a visual, say you were sitting on the couch watching TV, and I was on the other side of the room when I threw something by your line of vision, the object landed behind the desk way over there. The 'object' caught your attention but you couldn't discern wtf it was? You exclaimed loudly "Oh my what was that?"

Guess what? You just saw a

U FRICKING F O!

hope this helps, cheers.

[polichick]

20. Heck, I've seen "UFOs" flying above my neighborhood...

And just shrugged. There's an airbase near me and so many different types of flying objects I don't even try to identify them.

[doublethink]

25. You speak as a rational adult ...... unlike these people ridiculing Kucinich ...

on this topic lately. Boggles the mind what they try to make of it. Leave the 'swift-boating' to the right wingers huh? Peace. :)

[LWolf]

24. Kucinich failed to identify Lo Zoccolo,

"the mighty hoof of the centrist empire," at the helm, thereby rendering the sighting "unidentified."

[DemBones DemBones]

37. . . .

:rofl:

His obsession with Kucinich is getting really boring, isn't it?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

27. Oh great,

now he's changed his weird fixation from Ralph Nader to Dennis Kucinich.

[Phoonzang]

28. Who cares?

Why this fixation on Kucinich? He's not going to win the freaking nomination and everyone knows it no matter how much the like him.

Whether he saw aliens, a secret military aircraft, or whatever, it doesn't matter. Just a distraction .

[dsc]

29. Oh would you give it a rest.

[LoZoccolo]

32. I think any attempts to sweep this under the rug betray a subtext that Kucinich probably lied.

And if that's so, if he goes around fabricating stories about anomalous experiences, that's a real problem with his leadership abilities.

[dsc]

33. He has a much chance of being President as I do

so his lies about UFO's if that is what they are, matter not one whit.

[LoZoccolo]

35. That's a problem too, then.

In that case, he's running around disguising himself as a presidential candidate. People might think that he is some necessary part of getting issues like health care addressed, but trying to do that in the context of a presidential run leaves him vulnerable to the criticism that he would not make a good president. Can't people think of another means to do what Kucinich is trying to do with this campaign?

I might use unconventional means to make points, but they are still there.

[DemBones DemBones]

39. Why do you claim "Kucinich probably lied"?

Do you think that many people are going to decide to vote for him because of this?

Did Carter lie, too, about seeing an unidentified aircraft?

[LoZoccolo]

40. Because his actions don't reflect someone who saw a UFO.

At least not someone in his position. As a politician he would, or at least should, be thinking of the political implications of the sighting (its impact on national security and/or space exploration), which he doesn't appear to have done. He seems to be sweeping it aside as well, which is not characteristic of someone who vigorously pursues what he believes in (his public image).

[DemBones DemBones]

44. You don't know about Kucinich's position

against the militarization of space, I take it.

Perhaps he knows exactly what he saw and doesn't want to say lest he end up in Syria being waterboarded.

Perhaps he wanted to speak against the militarization of space but wasn't given the time. At every debate, the moderators have marginalized Kucinich.

There was no reason for him to lie. He had to know that saying you've seen a UFO would get a lot of :tinfoilhat: comments from folks like you.

[Name removed]

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[crispini]

34. You have left a possibility off the list.

Kucinich saw something odd, but was unsure what it was, and said something to Shirley McClaine, who proceeded to blow the whole thing out of proportion in her book.

In the debate, Kucinich didn't make the claim that he saw something that was definitely extraterrestrial. That claim was made by McClaine. Kucinich simply said, in the debate, that he saw something that flew, and he didn't know what it was. Thus, UFO -- UNIDENTIFIED flying object. ;)

[LoZoccolo]

41. I will grant that there seems to be a discrepancy between the Kucinich and the MacLaine accounts.

It could have been a number of things that he saw, but therein lies the rub: in the face of an extraordinary event, how does someone with an aspiration to lead the nation react? Most people would write it off as an oddity, or tell lots of people but hide it from others, but we expect more from someone who is on a course to lead. Would this person, for example, appreciate the national security and/or scientific impact that this event could have, and would this person take the initiative to make sure the right people know? Would this person question what he saw, and use the top-secret access that I am sure he has as a member of Congress to verify and/or dismiss his theories about the significance of the event? A president should see the possible earth-shaking significance of this event, or at least investigate if it is in fact earth-shaking, as they will be expected to react to many events which will become historically significant during their term.

Thank you, though, for your respectful response. :hi:

[crispini]

43. In the face of what may -- or may NOT be -- an extraordinary event,

how should with an aspiration to lead the nation react? I would say, with calm judiciousness. Hopping on the blower with the Sec Def and going "Whoa, what was that light I saw in the sky?" ain't gonna earn anyone anything other than a reputation as a nutcase :P

And you know I have nothing but respect for your pragmatic views, LoZo, even if you do have awful taste in music. Hee. ;)

I'm supporting the Kooch, in my own pragmatic way, because I agree with something like 80% of his policy positions, and I'm interested in seeing the dialog pushed further to the left. I'm under no illusions that he's actually going to get the nomination, but I'm sort of used to tilting at windmills at this point. I'll probably switch my support to someone else at our precinct convention out of necessity, but for the time being, I'm enjoying voting my conscience. It's the primaries, after all, so I get to do that. :P

[DemBones DemBones]

47. Do you know about his position against militarization of space?

Perhaps he did report this sighting. Perhaps it was a Russian or Chinese aircraft/spacecraft and he doesn't want to mention that. Perhaps he didn't discuss it for security reasons.

Perhaps you should ask him instead of us.

[L0oniX]

36. Big deal ....pffft

[frogmarch]

42. I don't know what Dennis saw,

and neither does he. But even if he'd said he thought his UFO was of extraterrestrial origin, so what? Lots of intelligent people believe ETs have visited Earth. Anyway, I'd prefer an ET-believer as president over a religious zealot any old day.

[fadedrose]

46. Amen

[riqster]

45. Where's the "STFU" option?

Worthless poll without it.